Author Topic: Speed to Rev Ratio.... (Read 3043 times)

tenpinspro · « **on:** June 09, 2009, 10:28:06 PM »

Djarum was right, this forum "was" one of the best and informative around so I will try and offer what I can. Lately, I've noticed that I've been doing a lot of explaining to a bowler of their speed to rev ratio (and what it means) so I figured it'll be worth while to share.

We have 5 general categories used.

Highly speed dominant
Slightly speed dominant
Matching speed to revs
Slightly rev dominant
Highly rev dominant

Let's use "my" scales. A bowler who can hook a ball 5-10 boards is matching speed to revs. Around 11-20 is slightly rev dominant and 21+ is highly rev dominant. Let's take Jason Couch or Tommy Jones, these guys are in the highly rev dominant category, their total hook is in the 20+ boards range (due to rev /speed ratio plus high axis rotation). But wait, so is the senior who throws it at 8mph an hour and the ball lopes down the lane, gets into a roll, hooks and then picks off the 4-7-8 (assuming it started at 10 board). He also is highly rev dominant.

What does this mean? It means to me that on a generic medium THS, all three of these gentlemen can utilize the same type and piece of equipment. They can't throw the latest and greatest hook ball on the market because it will add additional hook when they don't necessarily need it. In actuality, they need less just to try and keep the ball in the pocket.

I personally see too many bowlers think that they need the newest/biggest hook releases and that this will improve their game but in actuality it won't. We as bowlers must always match up to create "proportionate" amounts of skid/hook/roll into the pins to create the proper chain reaction.

On the other hand, if you are slightly to highly "speed" dominant, you "can" utilize stronger pieces and something that will help you get friction/traction (along w/ layout) that may help you get the traction required for a reaction. One of our hardest conditions to score on is when we can't hook (or basically get reaction) right? So utilize the newer covers and layouts to help you get that.

Just another tip from Tag Team Coaching, hope this helps some.

(categories courtesy of Del Warren/Mo Pinel/Brian Pursel and Track Intl)
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Edited on 6/10/2009 6:38 AM

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2009, 06:45:37 AM »

Very good post, and so true. What actually counts is not the amount of boards covered - rather a clean ball reaction with a skid/hook/roll pattern that has the ball just roll upon pin deck entry, for maximum momentum.
How this actually is achieved, based on the player's style and the lane condition, is a tough thing to decide and work out, but the most expensive ball must not yield "good" results. Rev and speed and their relative ratio are a good basis to see what the player actually needs, equipment- and setup-wise.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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tenpinspro · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2009, 10:24:19 AM »

quote:
"One of our hardest conditions to score on is when we can't hook (or basically get reaction) right? So utilize the newer covers and layouts to help you get that."

Are you reccommending that for the rev dominant players(which I consider myself to be) to use these newer, stronger covers to our advantage one should use a weaker layout?
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It's a dog eat dog world and i have bigger teeth than you do!

As mentioned in the beginning of the paragraph, I intended this comment for slightly to highly "speed" dominant bowlers on a general basis. However, if the conditions that you typically encounter can allow for this combination, please do so accordingly. It has been in my personal experience where centers that utilize thicker or denser oils that may require a bowler to utilize more cover with a weaker layout so that the cover can help overpower any carrydown or natural push from use yet not yield too much overall reaction. We still want friction/traction but may not necessarily need all the hook accompanied by a strong layout.

One of my main goals in this post was for a bowler (regardless of which category they fall into) to understand that once they use a piece that is even a little too strong for the condition they're on will force them to remove themselves from their A-game.

I believe we all have an A-game but once we have to speed up a little, loft, spin, move in or do whatever changes necessary to create proportionate amounts of skid/hook/roll, we now have slightly left our comfort zone and some degree of accuracy will be suffered.

This game is about repetition so if we can do what comes naturally, it will come about easier vs trying to do what is not natural or comfortable. Hope this helps some...
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

stopncrank · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2009, 10:40:28 AM »

rick you are spot on with your post. im a higher rev player and rarely do i find enough volume on the ths's i see to use stronger pieces. even in tournaments i find myself using mid range pieces with different drillings to compensate for my "lack" of ball speed. im generally in the 450-500 rev rate range with 17-18 mph ball speed. i also have alot of axis rotation so i usually get a hockey stick type reaction on most anything i throw. the hardest thing ive had to come to grips with is im just not gonna be able to use the latest greatest ball out there. even more so is to see someone with half my rev rate playing inside of me with a 800 grit mega friction tripping four pins while i kill the pocket all night leaving stone 8's and solid 10's. and then to know that im gonna have to move deeper and cross their line at somw point during the night! heres my question: does a bowler who is dominate either way change if the condition changes? say im rev dominate on a ths, could i be speed dominate on say shark pattern?
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!

tenpinspro · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2009, 12:57:07 PM »

quote:
heres my question: does a bowler who is dominate either way change if the condition changes? say im rev dominate on a ths, could i be speed dominate on say shark pattern?

There are many variables that will apply to each bowler and situation but on an average, it does change based on the amount of friction present on the lane (thanks for asking, great point).

As friction on a lane "increases", so does the category we fall into orginally. If we are slightly rev dominant to begin with and then we encounter a drier condition then normal, our total hook should now also increase. Many of us see this happen within a league nite when we will are able to hook a ball more and more as a lane dries up (assuming we're still throwing the same ball). Therefore, placing us into another category.

Conversely, as there is less friction present on a lane (shark pattern for instance), we no longer have the same total hook as we did on our normal THS so therefore we fall backwards in the category descriptions.

Let's take my examples of TJ or Couch who are typically highly rev dominant. Now let's put them on 50ft of oil (think it was on the Open or TOC one year). Anyway, now both these guys who can normally hook 20+ boards with friction are now only hooking a ball a total of 10-15 (if that). That drops them to a good 1 to 1 1/2 categories by definition but it will do so across the board. A bowler who used to match up now becomes slightly/highly speed dominant.

In your particular case, you will lose overall hook not only due to the lack of friction present but also the fact that you have a higher axis rotation. High axis rotation in oil causes for a fair amount of skid whereas foward roll is still what can react sooner. My game now is very similar to yours (much lower rev rate and speed but similar axis rotation) and I also struggle again in heavier oil unless I slow down (get speed to match revs) and try to roll the ball more.

stopncrank, I will pm you with details about your game concerning your stone 8's and 10's. One is too strong and one is still weak. This is definitely another level in the game which I define as having O/U "at" the pocket. The first thing we all learned about scoring was having area on the lane but the true way of "killing" a shot and scoring is understanding or creating "area" in the pocket. Carl's going to kill me for this cause "THIS" is what Tag Team teaches and normally charges for...

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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Edited on 6/11/2009 12:59 PM

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2009, 06:03:02 PM »

Thanks for telling me I'm highly rev dominant. As if I don't have enough problems already.

Hopefully this layout you, I and Scoot talked about will fix things.
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Author Topic: Speed to Rev Ratio.... (Read 3043 times)

tenpinspro

Speed to Rev Ratio....

dizzyfugu

Re: Speed to Rev Ratio....

tenpinspro

Re: Speed to Rev Ratio....

stopncrank

Re: Speed to Rev Ratio....

tenpinspro

Re: Speed to Rev Ratio....

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Speed to Rev Ratio....