Author Topic: animal issues (release sensitive?) (Read 3571 times)

ashzero · « **on:** March 14, 2004, 11:23:09 PM »

ok, i'm about 5-11, with backswing that almost goes parallel with the floor. i think my ball speed isn't slow while not super fast, so i guess it would be medium speed. i can put decent amount of rotation on the ball as well.

i have animal drilled 4 inch from pin to PAP and 5.5 inch from MB to PAP. the pin is to 1 o'clock from the ring finger. and i think that MB is on the VAL.

in normal league shot, this ball is very very erratic. first game, i had to put it away after 5 mins of practice because this ball would slide, slide, then just crash into the pins. and sometimes, it would slide, then catch on, then make a strong, strong move to the pocket. so i went to the proshop and i had it lightly sanded with groove going across the track lines. yet, it made no difference to its inconsistancy.

i couldn't really figure why it was behaving this way, but yesterday at the league, i played with the ball for 2 games (while playing just enough to win the games). i realized that i was able to make it hook depending on the release (i think). i had to gently kinda let the ball go with my hand tilted to 20 degree (from the 12 o'clock orientation). weird thing is that if i tried to put more rev on the ball, this all would slide, try to turn, then couldn't turn the corner at the breakpoint. now, any of you out there have lots of rev and have trouble keeping this ball consistant? it may be my release, but i know for a fact that with my xfactor deuce, a little discrenpancy in release doesn't end up with ball not turning the corner at all. any help would be greatly appreciated. what should i do? i'm seriously considering trading the ball in and lose 150 dollars (or give it to my friend). this ball has less than 5 games on it and i'm desperate to know what i need to do. thank you.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2004, 02:35:44 AM »

Hi Ash,

Based on the numbers, your static weights aren't extreme, they appear okay. The last thing we want to try now(before plugging) is to change the cover to offset some of the length created by the drill pattern. Let's try to take the ball down to a 600 grit finish(make sure the shine is gone) and see the reaction we get for you on "your" condition.

The reason for the lack of finish you are looking for is because the mass bias is still considered to be in somewhat of a weak positioning for "heavier" oil.
Please refer to my thread "Strong Asymmetrical Balls". Try to picture this if you can. The ball in its' current layout cannot turn the corner because it is being sent "too" far down the lane. Unless you had some dry boards to the right for it to create friction from, this ball is drilled to go long, well, you would also tend to use this ball for heavier oil correct? It is already getting a fair amount of length and skid from the oil and now the imbalance of the ball is adding more length making it skid even longer...make sense? It actually is going past the breakpoint, where as the same ball drilled a little differently can pick up sooner in the oil and recover faster to finish on the backend.

I understand your ball drillers recommendations for overall use but if you're having problems like you are, then the ball isn't matched up to you very well for the condition you're bowling on. Hope this helps and feel free to contact me if you want further clarification, thanks.

--------------------
Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Pro Shop Staff
Vise Grip Staff

ashzero · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2004, 12:03:51 PM »

Ok, I had my driller change the surface to 600 grits...he made the sanding lines parallel to the ball track (which I assume he did in order to prevent the ball from rolling out too early).

Went to a semi-burnt/messy lane (aftermath of 5 ppl league), just to try it out. Since I remember that even on that messy lane, the ball had difficulty turning the corner. After tossing one, my jaw drops to the floor. I couldn't believe how easily the ball was turning the corner. I mean, it cleared the head REAL easy (another surprise), then just flip real hard, then destroy the rack. I really don't understand why this ball's movement resembles hockey stick instead of strong arc (maybe because it hit the patch of fried desert backend), but the movement was just amazing. I'll try this setup in league and let you guys know more about it. Thanks for all the help.

ashzero · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2004, 09:00:12 AM »

ok, played 2 full games at league with the ball.

here are the findings:

1.the ball turns the corner better with gentle stroking release.
2.on our league pattern, the ball still goo too long and turns too late.
3.that results in ball not turning over fully and backend isn't there.
4.with my current ball layout, i'm lead to believe that this ball will go way longer than my deuce drilled to "roll".
5.on longer patterns (my league), the ball doesn't recover enough and is still plagued by over/under reaction.

so what else can i do to the ball? should i try reducing finger weight and drill a balance hole to help the ball stand up earlier? or re-drill?

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2004, 09:08:36 AM »

Ash, this is not a slam, I'm not being a jerk, but....I'm no expert and only have a few games on my Animal, but I just can not see this ball not turning the corner....I can't imagine that at all......this ball is NUTS !
--------------------
JEFF
Better....much better!

Edited on 3/29/2004 10:05 AM

omegabowler · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2004, 10:50:34 AM »

Jeff,

you have to be carful of what you think of ball reactions with this strong Asymmetrical core.

I have 2 Unleashed's and one has the MB at 5.75 and the other at 4.5 and the difference is night and day.

one is a light oil ball and the other a heavy oil ball. I not talking about a few boards difference. I talking about a few feet difference.

on oil the 5.75 would turn over around 75 feet. on light oil the 4.5 flips at the arrows.

My animal is drilled different than yours and I will bet on the same lane we would have to play 2 different lines.

Listen to what KOTM said about drilling 2 animal and covering 90% of what you see. He right. the correct layout and surface will do a specific thing.

this making building a arsenal more complex and better that symmetrical core balls. because you can get 2 ball to cover 90% of lanes and fill in weak spots with equipment drilled to just do what you want.

symmetrical arsenal are really limited once you discover these strong cores.

as for ASH. go ahead and redrill it. it will still maintian the core strength. so you have nothing to fear. I once thought that re-drilling an asymmetrically ball would ruin the benefits. I was wrong. I have drilled 2 used balls with the morpheus cores and they react with a predictable nature of a new ball.
--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2004, 11:06:33 AM »

Omega,

Trust me, I understand.......I was kind of kidding........if he's throwing it on oil, I can see it, it won't bite soon enough..........

I should have made a

or something.......thanks for the post Omega....
--------------------
JEFF
Better....much better!

omegabowler · « **Reply #22 on:** March 29, 2004, 11:29:16 AM »

man you can really get what you want with that core.
I have a

Phenom pin at 3.5 x 1" above midline and MB at 4.5" 800 matte

I was throwing this on a fresh shot. it's is my heavy oil ball set to open the midlane. it does! but in different ways with different releases.

weak release ball on inside of hand. lazy movement not much back end. good for down and in on heavy oil.

Hand under the ball. hard move in the midlane and better continuation.

hand inside ball. strong finger rotation and higher revs. can swing it on this fresh pattern. I have yet to see a true flood but for most of the heavy oil tournaments I have been in, this and the Unleashed are a great 1 -2 punch.

I may replace that phenom with an animal. 4 x 3.5" with the pin 1" above midline. sanded to 600 for a real true heavy oil ball.
--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

ashzero · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2004, 08:38:24 AM »

quote:
Jeff,

you have to be carful of what you think of ball reactions with this strong Asymmetrical core.

I have 2 Unleashed's and one has the MB at 5.75 and the other at 4.5 and the difference is night and day.

one is a light oil ball and the other a heavy oil ball. I not talking about a few boards difference. I talking about a few feet difference.

on oil the 5.75 would turn over around 75 feet. on light oil the 4.5 flips at the arrows.

My animal is drilled different than yours and I will bet on the same lane we would have to play 2 different lines.

Listen to what KOTM said about drilling 2 animal and covering 90% of what you see. He right. the correct layout and surface will do a specific thing.

this making building a arsenal more complex and better that symmetrical core balls. because you can get 2 ball to cover 90% of lanes and fill in weak spots with equipment drilled to just do what you want.

symmetrical arsenal are really limited once you discover these strong cores.

as for ASH. go ahead and redrill it. it will still maintian the core strength. so you have nothing to fear. I once thought that re-drilling an asymmetrically ball would ruin the benefits. I was wrong. I have drilled 2 used balls with the morpheus cores and they react with a predictable nature of a new ball.
--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

omega,

yeah, i see exactly what you mean by one is a light oil and one is a heavy oil. when i tried this ball on lane after 5 ppl league, i could literally swing from the ball return to 7th board then make it come back to the rack. now, this was in 600 grits and i was still getting a major backend. if i polish it in current drilling, i really think that this ball would be of some use when drier conditions. but i think swinging it out in the dry is not the most consistent way to score high on dryer patterns. i mean, i'll stick to ssp and scout reactive for the dry. so, i guess my next logical step is to re-drill the ball. i was considering the nicholskid's opinion of reducing the side weight and stuff, but if that doesn't work, i'm afraid that the ball may turn out to be FUBAR. so re-drill it sounds like. =T

omegabowler · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2004, 08:44:26 AM »

the side weight won't make that big of a difference. Don't be afraid of redrill. the core is very strong and you will get the same results as if you drilled up a new one.

last night I kind of had some results like Jeff no revs

when fresh I had to up the back and straight and as they dried out I had swing room with more axis turn. of course I couldn't walk to the line the same all night on a funky pair. so my scores were bad because of me. I had the ball to do the Job but I stunk it up

..

later.
--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

ashzero · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2004, 11:39:00 AM »

quote:
I know you guys prlly think im not that smart or w/e. but i have had expierence with the same exact drilling as ash has with his animal. I drilled my phenom like that and had a heck of a time w/it. so then i asked a track staffer, and he said to drill the finger holes one inch deeper. and drill a 13/16 weight hole 3 inches deep on your midline at your pap. It will/should turn the corner harder. I thought this setup would make my ball roll early it dont
--------------------
S.T.O.R.M all the way....to the gutter.

nicholdskid: thanks for the suggestion. i think i'll call track and ask them how to make it turn the corner better / roll earlier. your help is greatly appreciated though. THANKS (that includes everyone in this forum)!

Mitch Beasley · « **Reply #26 on:** April 01, 2004, 03:30:08 PM »

One thing nobody has talked about is the fact it is probably drilled too strong for you. The layout you have is for someone that has slow ball speed and no rotation. If you have good revs, the ball will flare very early in the oil and will have no power left at the break point. This would explain the fact that scuffed on dry it hooks a lot. On the dry it is hooking early on the lane while it still has energy and continues because of the angle. On oil is will either go straight in the oil or hook emediatly if you move right to the dry. I would suggest you move the pin one to one and a half inches left to get the ball not to use it's energy early and move the mass bias right one to one and a half right to get the ball to roll more and be consistant in the oil. I have thrown several of these and other strong balls and if it is drilled too strong it will roll good when you stroke it but will give up very badly if you turn them.
I have three of them and my team mate has one. My team mate (medium speed and medium turn) has one with the pin under the ring finger and the mass bias at 3 1/2 from axis and it is a hook monster with incredible hit. I have one with the pin 6" in the ring finger and the mass bias at 4" and it is long with tremendous back end. I have another with the pin 5 1/2 and the mass bias at 1" and it has good length, good midlane roll, and smooth back end.

One thing to remember about the Morph cores is that they lose little flare when move from 4 1/2 to 6" they just store more energy and have better backend.

I hope this helps.

ashzero · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2004, 02:35:29 PM »

ok, got the ball re-drilled with pin under, slight right of the ring finger and MB very close to VAL.

at the league (longer pattern), still behaved almost exactly same as before. i'm not understanding this at all now. with the redrill, the ball was supposed to roll earlier, but it still skates the pocket while trying to turn the corner. the surface is still at 600 i believe. feels like a snafu here. anyone?

omegabowler · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2004, 03:10:44 PM »

how is your drilled? pin to pap? pin above midline? MB to pap?

Mine is 5 x 3 mb on val. with the pin under fingers about 2" above midline.

I see decent skid though the heads. why I got this ball.

it revs up in the midlane and lays off the backend. a fade of an arc. this is with a weak release. I play it straighter through the heads and it goes.

I do not expect the big backend from this or any other particle ball designed to arc on any kind of oil volume or length. it's just not made for that. it you want a ball to read the backend I feel the Unleashed is much better at this.

I don't think this is a big swing ball unless the lanes make you. and you will know this because it can react off the dry very well. I feel this ball is more of an up the lanes ball with that drilling on fresh oil.

what line are you playing and what is the oil like?
--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

ashzero · « **Reply #29 on:** April 05, 2004, 04:15:56 PM »

omega,

i'm not looking for backend either, i just want the ball to properly turn the corner and enter the pocket. currently, the ball's not facing the pocket when it hits the pins. but the weird thing is that with less hand, but ball will just purely roll and roll into the pocket.

at the league, i'm playing from 20 swing out to about 15-10. i've tried 25 to 10, but ended in same ball movement. for reference in the previous 5x4.5 drilling playing on DRY backend, i was able to swing it out from 30 to 10, and make the ball come back screaming. the ball instantly turned the corner whenever it hit the dry.

but in the league, i just cannot make the ball turn the corner and face the pocket.

omegabowler · « **Reply #30 on:** April 05, 2004, 04:26:44 PM »

on fresh, I know I have to play mine striaght up the boards. find the oil line and go right up it, no swing and see what that does for you.

maybe the shell surface isn't right. Mine is OOB with a light hand scuffing and I think it does better after he heads break down.

--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

Author Topic: animal issues (release sensitive?) (Read 3571 times)

ashzero

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