Post by: Rock77 on May 24, 2007, 08:51:46 AM
How can anyone make this assessment if a). Track's new stuff isn't out yet and b). some of those commenting have not thrown Visionary or given them a chance?
Most people should be given the chance to throw both side by side to make the determination of which ball they like better. And even then, it's all about matchup, or so I thought.
I'm not defending Visionary for any other reason than the fact that I am currently using them and have found their stuff to be JUST AS GOOD as any ball I've ever thrown. I still use and love my Track stuff, but Visionary makes great stuff too. You can't discount them as a quality company just because your "faithful/loyal" to Track or because you might know what the new Track stuff is like or because of a bad experience. Have we all forgotten that Storm and Brunswick are also competitors? I realize that quite a few who used Track exclusively have switched to Visionary, but that doesn't mean that they should be the target of any bashing or comparisons.
I remember hearing many say that not every ball will work for everyone. It's all about matchup, etc, blah, blah, blah... Well, it seems as though that has gone out the window and everyone can bash and say that the new Track stuff can't be compared to anything and this and that. Sheesh, it's like freakin' high school. Mine is better than yours....
I'm just real sick and tired of reading threads with bashing comments towards VBP. They are a GREAT small company and are getting alot of support now that some of the major players aren't currently releasing balls.
I, for one, am glad that they have gotten the support and hope that they continue to grow and excel as a company. Maybe it'll put a scare into other companies to see a small company give them competition, who knows?
As for me and my status, I'm pretty disappointed with the remarks and comments towards VBP and am contemplating selling off the rest of my Track stuff and switching exclusively to Visionary.
Sorry for the rant, but I needed to get that off my chest.
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Visionary Test Staff Member '07-'08
Edited on 5/24/2007 6:23 PM
Post by: ccrider on May 24, 2007, 05:47:55 PM
Frankly, Visionary should be proud to be compared to Track. If I was the new kid on the block and trying to gain a solid reputation, I would want my product to be compared to the best.
And no, I am not on the "Track Test Staff." Track is simply the best ball that I have thrown for my game.
quote:
Since when did Visionary become the main competition for Track?? Over the past few days I have noticed quite a few direct comparisons between Visionary and Track, especially the new Track equipment.
How can anyone make this assessment if a). Track's new stuff isn't out yet and b). some of those commenting have not thrown Visionary or given them a chance?
Most people should be given the chance to throw both side by side to make the determination of which is ball they like better. And even then, it's all about matchup, or is it?
I'm not defending Visionary for any other reason than the fact that I am currently using them and have found their stuff to be JUST AS GOOD as any ball I've ever thrown. I still use and love my Track stuff, but Visionary makes great stuff too. You can't discount them as a quality company just because your "faithful/loyal" to Track or because you might know what the new Track stuff is like or because of a bad experience. Have we all forgotten that Storm and Brunswick are also competitors? I realize that quite a few who used Track exclusively have switched to Visionary, but that doesn't mean that they should be the target of any bashing or comparisons.
I remember hearing many say that not every ball will work for everyone. It's all about matchup, etc, blah, blah, blah... Well, it seems as though that has gone out the window and everyone can bash and say that the new Track stuff can't be compared to anything and this and that. Sheesh, it's like freakin' high school. Mine is better than yours....
I'm just real sick and tired of reading threads with bashing comments towards VBP. They are a GREAT small company and are getting alot of support now that some of the major players aren't currently releasing balls.
I, for one, am glad that they have gotten the support and hope that they continue to grow and excel as a company. Maybe it'll put a scare into other companies to see a small company give them competition, who knows?
As for me and my status, I'm pretty disappointed with the remarks and comments towards VBP and am contemplating selling off the rest of my Track stuff and switching exclusively to Visionary.
Sorry for the rant, but I needed to get that off my chest.
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Visionary Test Staff Member '07-'08
Post by: shelley on May 24, 2007, 05:59:45 PM
quote:
Not hardly an unbiased response or editorial. "Visionary Test Staff?" Did you get paid to print this?
Frankly, Visionary should be proud to be compared to Track. If I was the new kid on the block and trying to gain a solid reputation, I would want my product to be compared to the best.
And no, I am not on the "Track Test Staff." Track is simply the best ball that I have thrown for my game.
Visionary's hardly the "new kid", they've been around for quite some time. There was a great match between Pete Weber and Michael Haugen in 2001 where Haugen was throwing a Crimson Executioner and Glow Amulet. Those aren't even their oldest balls. Around as long as Track? Maybe not, but not new like Banger or Insite.
The Visionary Test Staff (http://"http://visionarybowling.com/membership.html") is a membership program, he's not paid to throw Visionary's equipment any more than you're paid to throw Track's.
SH
Post by: Rock77 on May 24, 2007, 06:22:51 PM
quote:quote:
Not hardly an unbiased response or editorial. "Visionary Test Staff?" Did you get paid to print this?
Frankly, Visionary should be proud to be compared to Track. If I was the new kid on the block and trying to gain a solid reputation, I would want my product to be compared to the best.
And no, I am not on the "Track Test Staff." Track is simply the best ball that I have thrown for my game.
Visionary's hardly the "new kid", they've been around for quite some time. There was a great match between Pete Weber and Michael Haugen in 2001 where Haugen was throwing a Crimson Executioner and Glow Amulet. Those aren't even their oldest balls. Around as long as Track? Maybe not, but not new like Banger or Insite.
The Visionary Test Staff (http://"http://visionarybowling.com/membership.html") is a membership program, he's not paid to throw Visionary's equipment any more than you're paid to throw Track's.
SH
Couldn't have said it better Shelley. In fact, we pay Visionary to be on their test staff.
I realize that it is an honor to be compared to a company such as Track, but when you hear people saying that the new Track stuff is better than this and nothing can be compared to it, it's tough to make that judgement when NO ONE has seen the new stuff on the lanes. Let alone side by side with a ball of another manufacturer.
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Visionary Test Staff Member '07-'08
Post by: DanR on May 24, 2007, 06:50:50 PM
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on May 24, 2007, 07:38:59 PM
I did not mean to sound harsh towards Visionary or their equipment. I apologize if you took it that way. I said nothing negative about their equipment. I believe they make a quality product. The issue that I had was with their customer service. I spoke with Jason today and it was a very pleasant conversation. Jason is a class person running a class company.
One of the things that attracted me to Track was that it is a small company where people and bowlers came first. The Divas were great with almost any issue they were confronted with. Jason assured me today that Visionary takes the same stance.
I did not see the comparison posts with Track and Visionary. They each make very good equipment. Each company has its own following. We are just not used to seeing people from the "family" be aggressive in this manner. You will not see me post in the Visionary Forum again in a negative fashion. I had a rant....it was addressed.
A little competition is a good thing. This is especially true when the companies are both striving to make bowlers happy. It is the bowlers (aka the customers that makes a bowling ball company what it is).
Visionary aims to have great customer service. I can assure you that Track has been and will remain to keep customer service as its first priority.
-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: Rock77 on May 24, 2007, 08:02:47 PM
quote:
Most every ball seems OK on the house China. Take it to a real conditions and you'll see the difference. Be real
And you apparently have little to no knowledge about the game of bowling. Not every house puts down THS and FYI, some of us bowl in PBA Experience leagues and tournaments.
With that said, your comments really have no validity toward the initial thread, so my advice to you is GET REAL!!
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Visionary Test Staff Member '07-'08
Post by: Rock77 on May 24, 2007, 08:08:13 PM
quote:
Rock,
I did not mean to sound harsh towards Visionary or their equipment. I apologize if you took it that way. I said nothing negative about their equipment. I believe they make a quality product. The issue that I had was with their customer service. I spoke with Jason today and it was a very pleasant conversation. Jason is a class person running a class company.
One of the things that attracted me to Track was that it is a small company where people and bowlers came first. The Divas were great with almost any issue they were confronted with. Jason assured me today that Visionary takes the same stance.
I did not see the comparison posts with Track and Visionary. They each make very good equipment. Each company has its own following. We are just not used to seeing people from the "family" be aggressive in this manner. You will not see me post in the Visionary Forum again in a negative fashion. I had a rant....it was addressed.
A little competition is a good thing. This is especially true when the companies are both striving to make bowlers happy. It is the bowlers (aka the customers that makes a bowling ball company what it is).
Visionary aims to have great customer service. I can assure you that Track has been and will remain to keep customer service as its first priority.
-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Carl, I understand where you're coming from and as a person who uses both brands, I am able to see and compare them. I honestly feel that Visionary's equipment is just as good as any other company.
My true gripe was really the few posts where I saw comments about how nothing could be compared to the new Track stuff. I just don't understand how that comes about if we, as customers, have not seen these balls in action yet.
I hope that everyone will wait to determine which balls are better in their hands once they've thrown them. As for me, I like both brands and am having success with both. Therefore, I feel that Visionary is equally as good as Track.
I can understand your gripe with the customer service and am glad that it got worked out for you. Thanks for the reply. You are one of the few people on here whose opinion and comments I respect. Thanks again.
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Visionary Test Staff Member '07-'08
Post by: clintdaley on May 24, 2007, 08:36:30 PM
My Granite gargoyle is deadly...it hits like a ton of bricks...and as soon as it is too early, I grab the original Ogre and it picks up where the Granite left off.
I can't compare anything of Track's to Visionary, BUT, that is old Track with Columbia poured stuff and BASF resins and multi piece cores, the new Track will use whatever supplier Ebonite uses, with 1 piece, multi desity cores...
Whether this is right or wrong, when Del and Dawn was let go, I made my mind up then to find someone new. What happened to them is a shame, and while it worked out in their favor in the long run, at the time it was down right WRONG!
Bottom line is this. Pick what you feel is the best for your game, and if someone else chooses another brand, so be it.
Clint
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Post by: Xcessive_Evil on May 24, 2007, 09:09:04 PM
quote:
From my view point....it does not matter what brand you toss, its ALL about match-up...
I have only three words to say about this statement:
TRUEST. STATEMENT. EVER.
--------------------
www.putfile.com/trackbowler627
High game-300
High series-796
Current Arsenal- Track Power Machine, Ebonite Total NV, Track Phoenix, Track Mean Machine, Track Phenom, and Track Silencer.
Summer THS avg-231(3 games)
PBA Exp. avg-TBD
Post by: BOWLGNUT on May 24, 2007, 09:15:32 PM
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on May 24, 2007, 11:16:38 PM
The thing with PA that bothers me is this: He says he didn't match up to the equipment and it was aired on TV over and over------however didn't he break a scoring record last summer using the Equation in a regional? I think he averaged 260something throughout.
-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Edited on 5/24/2007 11:43 PM
Post by: shelley on May 24, 2007, 11:35:33 PM
quote:
The thing with PA that bothers me is this: He says he didn't match up to the equipment and it was aired on TV over and over------however didn't he break a scoring record last summer using the Equation in a regional? I think he averaged 26something thoughout.
It's kinda crude, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. He had a few decent finishes the first half of last season, 8th in the MC Classic (when Reyes threw his 300), 12th in Lake County Classic. The LC Classic was on Chameleon, which PA has had a lot of success on. Even if he didn't match up, he's good enough to pull things together once in a while. Just not enough to make a career of it.
SH
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on May 25, 2007, 12:53:31 AM
)--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Scoot- "Wait Carl, so you say the ball hit him right in the back of the head."
Carl- "Yes and it left a thumb hole imprint on the back of his head. HAHAHA."
Scoot- "How didnt he die from it.... o wait it was 14lbs wasn't it?"
Carl- "Yes it was ricks ball."
Scoot- "Well that is how he lived. See it is good to have a 14lb ball sometimes."
Post by: justdale on May 25, 2007, 07:37:54 AM
How many of us can actually go out and buy one ( or even 2 each) of every ball that comes on the market at the same time, have them drilled at the same time and go out and throw them all in one days worth of practice.
Mentally if you have had success or absolutley no success with a certain company then you will tend to show some loyalities in that direction. And that is totally fine.
To come on here and bash each other is truely a waste of time and effort
Post by: clintdaley on May 25, 2007, 08:02:51 AM
I believe you are right about PA, but it was on a regional pattern...he could not get the regular PBA patterns to match. But I still say if he would have stuck it out, he would have found SOMETHING to match, it just didn't in the first half of the season. It could have been mental. It could have been physical, it could have been equipment. It just looks bad for Track as the moment he switched back to Ebo, he won immediately.
As for Visionary, they are owned by the same family that owned Faball and are made in St Louis in one of the old Faball plants. If I am not mistaken, Visionary came into existance around 1995 or so...so no, they are not new, HOWEVER, lately, their products seems to be making a big splash. My personal opinion, one of the main reasons is they do not use a wrap around most of their cores, Its cover and core only. I feel balls without wraps with a thicker cover have a longer lifespan and better durability (less prone to cracking) than the thinner covers made due to the wraps around the core.
Have a good one!
Clint
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Post by: Rock77 on May 25, 2007, 08:41:26 AM
quote:
But I can look at a Track ball on the shelf, and at a Visionary ball on the shelf and one appears to be a high tech piece of sporting goods, the other appears to be made in someone's garage from playdough and spraypaint.
I'm not sure what Visionary balls you've seen, but most that I've seen look like high end pieces. The Immortal Solid, Ogre Pearl and Bronze Centaur to name a few. I'm not saying that they look better than any particular Track ball, but they look to be just as high end as them.
Additionally, the ones I've thrown have performed just as good as any Track ball that I've had to date.
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Visionary Test Staff Member '07-'08
Post by: williewc on May 25, 2007, 10:39:56 AM