Quote from: DP3 on May 17, 2013, 02:01:35 AM

The new 300C looks like a winner for the heavy handed guys on the easy stuff.

IDK, stronger core (higher Diff), stronger cover ... and a solid.  A lot of people loved the original 300C for its good motion and control on dry.  This ball looks stronger by everything they've said.  I wish they made something a little weaker, without urethane.

FYI Some people have already mentioned that if you polish the 300T (still available) you will basically have the old 300C. The 300A seems a lot weaker than either 300C or the 300T. If these ideas are true (and I think they are, the new 300C makes a lot more sense.

I'd been using the 300T on my lighter oil house shot a few times and the ball reacts nicely and appropriately to surface changes. So the new 300C would make a nice stable mate, as even in my lighter oiled house pattern, we are not seeing slightly more viscous oil ,if not a heavier oil application, that almost starts around medium oil.

Quote from: dR3w on June 14, 2013, 04:25:08 PM

Quote from: DP3 on May 17, 2013, 02:01:35 AM

The new 300C looks like a winner for the heavy handed guys on the easy stuff.

IDK, stronger core (higher Diff), stronger cover ... and a solid.  A lot of people loved the original 300C for its good motion and control on dry.  This ball looks stronger by everything they've said.  I wish they made something a little weaker, without urethane.

FYI Some people have already mentioned that if you polish the 300T (still available) you will basically have the old 300C. The 300A seems a lot weaker than either 300C or the 300T. If these ideas are true (and I think they are, the new 300C makes a lot more sense.

I'd been using the 300T on my lighter oil house shot a few times and the ball reacts nicely and appropriately to surface changes. So the new 300C would make a nice stable mate, as even in my lighter oiled house pattern, we are not seeing slightly more viscous oil ,if not a heavier oil application, that almost starts around medium oil.

Not sure if you saw my review or not.  I drilled this new 300C Solid and laid it out with the pin at 2 inches from my PAP with a 1 3/4 inch pin distance to the VAL, cg is center of grip.  This puts the pin about 4 inches over from center of grip and about an inch up from the center line.  I left the surface at box finish.  Even with the stronger cover and core, I was pretty surprised at how easy the ball pushed through the front half of the lane.  Even with that said, with the lay out, the ball was still super smooth on the backend and yet just enough angle to kick out the 10 pin. 

The ball was so clean through the front that I have considered taking it to 4000 but no polish just to read the mids a little better.  But, I have shot 1500 for 6 games in league with it as is so I am not sure if I really want to touch it.  I have only left one 10 pin in 6 games so far if that tells you anything.  This past week, I had people throwing a Ratchet, Enigma, Blue/Silver Taboo, and 2 Freezes on my pair and I think in 3 games I only moved 5 boards with my feet and 3 with my eyes.  I started playing about 15 at the arrows and around 10 breakpoint the first game and ended at 18 at the arrows with about 13-14 breakpoint. 

I am sure if you put a 4 - 5 inch pin layout the ball will be somewhat stronger.  However....with my rev rate, you may be surprised at how clean and predictable it can be with a weaker layout. 

From the posts by Rico on these shorter Pin to Paps I am surprised this has been so successful and consistent for you.

He often states they don't work without a weighthole or are inconsistent. 

Me I have found they are good while fresh but then puke once there is a little carrydown.

Of course as a very good two hander I think like many you have a good bit more power than me!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS please explain

Maybe the whole explanation Rico gave pertained to a certain type of bowler on a certain type of condition?  Not sure there.  One would think that with the pin that close to your axis there would be no need for a weight hole as the core is already laid down which would make the ball more predictable and controllable.  I have now had 3 balls with this layout and all 3 have rolled phenominal.  We experimented years ago with an original Red Pulse (wish I still had that ball).  When the Ebonite Black Ice was released, my good friend and pro shop guy kept pulling at me to drill one with the 2 inch layout.  That ball has been money on tournament conditions because of the predictability.  However, I can only use that ball playing no deeper than about 12-13 at the arrows because it is so mild that I have no angle once I get a little bit inside and my carry goes downhill.  With the new oils and such, I wanted something up to date but with the same layout.  As soon as I saw the 300C Solid coming out, something told me that was the ball to have. 

After some chatting with my friend at his shop (determining whether to have a 2 inch pin with a longer buffer or shorter, he convinced me an 1 1/2 - 1 3/4 buffer was the way to go due to the fact I was punching up a stronger ball than the Black Ice.  I believe the Black Ice has a 2 inch pin buffer.  The layout looks really funny on my 300 but trusted his judgment and boy am I glad I did.  The 300C still flares a good bit even with the short pin to PAP.  But with the cover at 4000 and polish, it is so clean through the front on our fresh house shot that there is still enough angle to kick the 10 out which I attribute to the stronger cover.  What surprises me, is that the backend is so mild that I would think I would leave more 10 pins than I do.  But, so far I have left only 1 through 6 games and that was because I pulled it slightly into the heavier oil volume and even though I hit the pocket, it was too late and left a solid 10. 

I have not had the chance to use this on a tournament condition yet.  That comes next weekend when I go to the Southeastern down in Macon, GA.  The last time I went down there for State Tournament, the pattern was shorter and the Black Ice rolled extremely well for me so I am anxious to see what the 300C will do.