Author Topic: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement (Read 2453 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **on:** October 29, 2007, 03:18:09 PM »

Rick is dead on about the Contour rings/planes. There was an extensive article in Ebonite's Pro Shop Insider that Rick and I were on the cover of.

Now, this is not saying that 4 inches is leverage.....3 3/8 is leverage. What this is saying is the 4 inches from PAP gives the best overall motion compared to different pin to pap distances.

These contour planes are also the reason that you get identical ball reaction when you shift the MB 180. This was discussed earlier in this thread when I said I wanted to SEE it for myself. I always want to test things...not just for my knowledge....but so I can also get that knowledge to pro shops and bowlers alike. Remember....often times I drill 3-4 for one ball so I can give an honest thought of the ball with a layout like that or simliar.

The trick layouts will be on the website available for everyone. The powers that be realized that this was a mistake and have elected to change their original thought process. Once again we (Track Bowling) are doing what the people want. We listen and try to do our best to make everyone happy. I am sure this will come in the form of several 300 games with a Rising for some of us.

I understand the frustration that everyone voiced, and honestly I would have felt the same way. I hold no hard feelings and hope that you all feel the same way.

This technology is something folks, and it can do nothing but good things for the future of bowling equipment.

-Carl

--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

Edited on 10/29/2007 11:40 PM

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2007, 11:19:31 PM »

FYI...felt this should be added to this as well.

Rick posted this earlier.

quote:
Ladies and Gents, (I hear you guys and understand your concerns)

My superiors have been informed of all your concerns and our 3 recommended layouts "will" be posted very soon and available to everyone on trackbowling.com

In regards to the trick layouts, we are working feverishly to ensure that reaction is consistent for everyone. We will not and cannot release this information until we are satisfied with the data. This ball is truly different....

Please feel free to ask Carl or myself for any layout assistance on trackbowling.com Thank you very much for your feedback, we still do listen and are trying our best to do the "right" thing for our bowlers.

--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

revTrex · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2007, 11:26:30 PM »

Thanks, Carl.

So, just for clarification:

1) 3 3/8" is still leverage, but 4" gives a better overall motion on The Rising. Does this hold true past a .35 MB differential? Or is it then that it really changes?

2) The specific contour rings/planes you speak of are unique to the Rising, correct? So this means that, say, a MoRich LevRG (which has a similar MB diff.) MAY not obey the same laws? Or will it?

Thanks again. Y'all got me deathly interested on this.

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2007, 11:37:13 PM »

quote:
1) 3 3/8" is still leverage, but 4" gives a better overall motion on The Rising. Does this hold true past a .35 MB differential? Or is it then that it really changes?

2) The specific contour rings/planes you speak of are unique to the Rising, correct? So this means that, say, a MoRich LevRG (which has a similar MB diff.) MAY not obey the same laws? Or will it?

rev,

To answer question 1: Yes, 4 inches gives better ball motion on the Rising. You folks in the other post were correct, this is not totally new technology....it was out before and we weren't ready for it. The study time put into this technology now puts us ahead of the game. Ron and co. are ready to give this to us so it peforms the way it should. As for the strength of the MB.....that is really not the cause of this technology.....it is the core dynamics. This design with the strong MB cause the Countour planes of the Rising to be the way they are.

#2: Yes, as of right now it is unique to The Rising. The LevRG is a standard asymmetrical ball...meaning moving the MB 180* will not result in identical ball motion or reaction. Doing this on a standard asymmetrical ball I would suspect that the ball would puke from the time it was released until it came back on the ball return. DO NOT TRY THIS on a standard asymmetrical ball.

I hope this answers your questions.

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

revTrex · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2007, 11:44:10 PM »

Alright, sounds good. This is starting to make sense (a little). Thanks for the help.

mpwebber · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:06:47 AM »

Sorry Carl, but I have to disagree with your reply to #2.

On ANY ball, the RG value will be mirrored on the opposite side of the ball. When you measure an RG value, you are measuring as if the ball is spinning around an axis and that axis goes from one point through the center of the ball to a point on the ball that is opposite from the original point.

Every ball will have contour rings. Symmetric balls have rings shaped like circles around the pin. Asymmetric balls have rings shaped like ovals - some go around the pin (low RG axis) and some go around the PSA (high RG axis). As the asymmetry increases (like on the Rising) the rings will become more oval in shape and more rings will be around the PSA. You can see this in the article in the Pro Shop Insider.

What makes the Rising unique is the lower target top weight which will allow you to turn the ball 180 degrees without requiring a weight hole in an unusable location or of an impossible size.

The laws of physics will be the same for all bowling balls.

Here are the pictures from the Pro Shop Insider Article:
Symmetric RG contours
Asymmetric RG contours
Rising RG contours

revTrex · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2007, 02:55:56 AM »

^^^

Something I always thought too, which I guess is why I am still kind of confused.

302efi · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2007, 08:27:57 AM »

Question is, will all this mumbo jumbo lead to higher scores ?

Remember no matter what drilling you put on these, someone still has to throw the damn ball and if the bowler sucks, I don't think the Robo ball will even help a bowler with a Robo arm ...lol

Seem to me like Ebo is is Tracks brand name to try out test balls on the public and see how they do. If they flop, oh well no big deal.

Look at Columbia's releases...Simple yet, very well rolling.

--------------------
Roto-Grip

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

shelley · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2007, 08:58:30 AM »

quote:
Sorry Carl, but I have to disagree with your reply to #2.

On ANY ball, the RG value will be mirrored on the opposite side of the ball. When you measure an RG value, you are measuring as if the ball is spinning around an axis and that axis goes from one point through the center of the ball to a point on the ball that is opposite from the original point.

I agree with you as well. The RG is the same whether you're on a marked spot or 180* from it. However, I might believe that turning the ball around means you're drilling into a different, non-equivalent part of the core and removing mass in a different way. Picture a ball like the Ravage, where there's plenty of core on one side and little core on the other. Drill 180* from the MB and you may not hit core material at all. If you believe the Brunswick research that says weight holes affect ball motion by changing the core shape, then drilling into different parts of the MB (or AMB) will change the reaction in different ways as well.

On a symmetric core, you'd be right. Whether you drill one side of the core or the other makes no difference, the starting and ending shape is the same either way, the material removed is the same. On an asymmetric ball, drilling into the MB or 180* from the MB removes different amounts of core material.

SH

AdrianS · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2007, 09:12:38 AM »

This really does sound similar but more refined technolgy along the lines of what the Omega was supposed to do, the mass bias on that(the small dot you found going on a straight line through the letter B on the drillers clock) used to wind up in some strange places compared to 'normal' assymetric stuff.
--------------------
Time for some REAL bowling!!!

jls · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:35:16 AM »

all this talk about drilling a bowling ball. secret codes, trick drillings.
that look like normal drillings on a storm drill sheet.>>> please!!!

so far we have drill this ball 3 ways.

the so called #1 layout, with the pin 1" above grip center line. with a 1-2" pin!!!!

drilled with the pin above the fingers, mb 45 degrees. with a 4-5" pin.

drilled with the pin 4" to pap, pin 2 1/2" to val, mb 4 1/2" from pap.

feedback so far,

pin 4" to pap is a monster,

pin above fingers is a monster, goes a little longer.

#1 layout, no real feedback yet.>> not enough oil!!!

so far, all seem to be please.

no codes given out at seminar!!!!!

saw 2 layouts now on web site.

all covers still at box finish<< 4000 pad.

--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Edited on 10/30/2007 11:17 AM

spinner031 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2007, 04:20:38 PM »

quote:
These contour planes are also the reason that you get identical ball reaction when you shift the MB 180.

I still think that it will react the same on all balls. The MB is an axis point, and it runs straight through the ball, like the poles of the earth. I don't think that you're drilling into it differently because it's upside-down and backwards, so it cancels out. The mark doesn't matter (I've been told that some balls are actually mismarked anyway).

dw23 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2007, 12:24:14 PM »

I think Spinner, JLS and others are saying just drill it as you would your normal Asymmetrical. equipment and watch it roll. Can't wait for more feedback from people that just drill it in their favorite layout.

Bombsaway, sorry but I think "just bowl better" is a stupid statement. New technology has helped the lower average bowlers more than anyone. If this technology and drilling instructions can help a 180 average bowler with low revs get a couple more strikes a game it is well worth it. If it can help a 220 average bowler get the reaction he needs to combat a specific condition then it's worth it. New or revamped technology is as big a part of sports now as skill.

Ebonite has spent thousands of dollars on R&D on this ball as well as many others. Most (if not all) of the people on here bashing the technology and drilling instructions have not even thrown the ball. Until we start receiving credible negative feedback I think you have to take the companies word for it. If you don't trust the company then don't buy the ball (or bash it).
--------------------
Thanks,
DW

Edited on 11/1/2007 12:26 PM

laufaye · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2007, 01:22:32 PM »

At the seminar Paul Fig watched me bowled and recommend me to layout mine with 4" PAP 2" Val, the ball is a monster, I like it.

This ball is really hook in the box, this ball will hook for most style bowlers, but still no ball can score for a bowler.
--------------------
Laufaye

jls · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2007, 02:22:58 PM »

quote:
I think Spinner, JLS and others are saying just drill it as you would your normal Asymmetrical. equipment and watch it roll. Can't wait for more feedback from people that just drill it in their favorite layout.

Bombsaway, sorry but I think "just bowl better" is a stupid statement. New technology has helped the lower average bowlers more than anyone. If this technology and drilling instructions can help a 180 average bowler with low revs get a couple more strikes a game it is well worth it. If it can help a 220 average bowler get the reaction he needs to combat a specific condition then it's worth it. New or revamped technology is as big a part of sports now as skill.

Ebonite has spent thousands of dollars on R&D on this ball as well as many others. Most (if not all) of the people on here bashing the technology and drilling instructions have not even thrown the ball. Until we start receiving credible negative feedback I think you have to take the companies word for it. If you don't trust the company then don't buy the ball (or bash it).
--------------------
Thanks,
DW

Edited on 11/1/2007 12:26 PM

DW23, so far we have drilled the ball up 3 different ways. all have worked!!!

if we have a ball with a short pin, we have used the pin 1" above the grip line drilling.
if we have a pin that is 3-4 or 4-5, { like so many have been } we have used either the pin above the fingers drilling or a strong a-sym drilling.

all have worked.

the ball is a monster.

carl/rick/mark were right, don't be afraid of the pin 1" from grip center drilling. however i have only used that drilling if i have a short pin or a long pin with low top weight.

but so far, all drillings are working on this ball.

the ball is a monster.
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Author Topic: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement (Read 2453 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl

Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

revTrex

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

C-G ProShop-Carl

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revTrex

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

mpwebber

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revTrex

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

302efi

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

shelley

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

AdrianS

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jls

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

spinner031

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

dw23

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement

laufaye

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jls

Re: Track Bowling Public Service Announcement