Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 11934 times)

jhutch769 · « **on:** October 23, 2007, 11:38:36 AM »

Hello,

We just got in a few Risings on Monday and before we drill mine, we wanted to take a closer look at the 360 degree drilling technique. Any idea where we can get more information on that? It says to look up trackbowling.com on the drill sheet, but neither my dad nor I were able to find further information.

We feel that the recommended drilling may be a tad too strong for me.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

I think my speed is 17 mph and RPM is 375-425.. can't quite remember all the numbers are on the other computer.. Have not computed my axis tilt.

Here are some links to some of my videos..

http://putfile.com/jhutch757

Thank you,

Joe

tenpinspro · « **Reply #31 on:** October 25, 2007, 05:05:32 PM »

quote:
quote:
welcome to mass bias.

Yes, it's about time physics showed up.

SH

Shelly, I agree....waiting to see if tennis balls or basketballs to have some type of imbalance.....lol in our lifetime? we'll see......not holding my breath dude....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

woodzx12 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 25, 2007, 05:53:44 PM »

quote:
Carl:

The thing that is funny to me is that I went to Bowl Expo, and several trade shows held by distributors, and all the Track Reps at these shows were saying that this ball would be within the specs that I talked about before. I understand things changed, I just think people were expecting one thing, and then something else was delivered.

I spoke with Randy Tightloft (sorry if I got that wrong) from Ebonite that is doing the Rising seminar and I just ask him if you can do any asymmetrical layout and he said yes. Mo's LevRG has as heavy of a core as the Rising and similiar Differential, and there are a variety of layout that you can do with that ball. I think the one recommended layout thing is to keep it simple but it ends up confusing pro shop when they don't see and can't do exactly what they see in the picture.

The 360 technology has been around with any Asymmetrical ball, but hasn't really been talked about. Where the Mass Bias is located creates a plane that goes straight through the ball and comes out on the other side. This will have with any Asymmetrical ball. I have seen Mass Bias X-Out or Blems that the CG is above the Mass Bias and Pin line. So in that case you would need to bring the Mass Bias to the other side of the ball and lay it out using the plane of the Mass Bias on the opposite side of the ball, basically how it is described in the Rising sheets.

As for the other layouts they are suppose to be up on Track's website November 1st.
--------------------
Thanks
Bill
BuddiesProShop.com
"The Place All Bowlers Shop"

thanks carl. your information was right on with you telling me to throw out that stupid drill sheet fot the rising. my rising had a 4 inch pin not even close to the targeted 1 to 2 inch pin. i drilled mine pin over fingers mass bias in strong position. 5.5 to pap,and mb 4.5 from pap. anyone that wants a ball to hook out of the building should consider this ball. in oil only 248 first game out of the box. second game 289. had to put it away in the thrid game ran out of oil. by the way that would be a fricken 4 pin in the 11 frame. awesome...................

tenpinspro · « **Reply #33 on:** October 25, 2007, 06:51:56 PM »

quote:
thanks carl. your information was right on with you telling me to throw out that stupid drill sheet fot the rising. my rising had a 4 inch pin not even close to the targeted 1 to 2 inch pin. i drilled mine pin over fingers mass bias in strong position. 5.5 to pap,and mb 4.5 from pap. anyone that wants a ball to hook out of the building should consider this ball. in oil only 248 first game out of the box. second game 289. had to put it away in the thrid game ran out of oil. by the way that would be a fricken 4 pin in the 11 frame. awesome...................

Way to go dude, nice bowling....we're just here to help. Haven't we always?.....Tag Team Coaching coming at ya......
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl - Tech Support
Vise Inserts Staff
Dexter Advisory Staff

Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder

See profile for Track Ball videos

*El Presidente of the Track Legion

Next Level PS · « **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2007, 08:22:04 PM »

I have drilled 3 of these todays i just want to say that normal asymmetrical do work on this ball. the customer from yesterday that got the suggested layout that turned out to be a dude today i used a 5X 4 1/2 X 3 1/2 above the midline, simple to say this ball was flatout SICK !!! on a broken down pattern the ball made move similar to a Storm Domination but when the Oil Can came thru the Player move from playing 25 back to 15 the ball a sideways move out of the pattern. Really nice ball!!

--------------------
Next Level Proshop
Union, NJ

"THE BOWLERS WILL NOT BE DENIED"

www.lovedoublesonline.com

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #35 on:** October 25, 2007, 11:32:43 PM »

Ok I have two risings. One of them I got from the seminar my pin distance was 5" and top was 2oz of top. Not what you would want for the suggested layout. The other was carls and I plugged it put my specs on it and left the layout the same. The one from carl was and is basicly the trick layout. The reaction I get out of it is really a smooth rolling ball. This ball at 4000 is great for a broken down THS. Now the other one I still drilled with the suggested layout. I just had to use a weight hole to get it back to legal but not as big of one as you would think. Now used it on a fresh heavy 45 foot ths. This ball went right and then turned left. It finished so hard on the first ball I rolled it with that it finished hitting the 5 pin back inbetween the 8 and 9 and the ball itself took out the 8 from the left side. This ball with the suggested layout will turn on almost everything
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #36 on:** October 25, 2007, 11:49:57 PM »

shelley,

I have 2 Risings drilled identical....the first one I drilled in Hoptown when rick and I visited in June and the other I drilled in August. The one from Hoptown has the suggested layout of pin 1 inch up in palm, but the MB was swung 180* from where it would be on the suggested layout. The other one has the pin in the same spot but the MB where the drill sheet shows it. These 2 balls react identical to eachother. I have to admit that I was a bit skeptical, thus the reason I did this test on my own.

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

jls · « **Reply #37 on:** October 26, 2007, 11:57:22 AM »

quote:
shelley,

I have 2 Risings drilled identical....the first one I drilled in Hoptown when rick and I visited in June and the other I drilled in August. The one from Hoptown has the suggested layout of pin 1 inch up in palm, but the MB was swung 180* from where it would be on the suggested layout. The other one has the pin in the same spot but the MB where the drill sheet shows it. These 2 balls react identical to eachother. I have to admit that I was a bit skeptical, thus the reason I did this test on my own.

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

exactly the point Carl. you where in doublt, so you drilled up another to make sure. then youn drilled up 2 more.

but back here on planet earth, you knpw where real customers are at.

they simply will not or can not afford to drill up 2-4 more balls to make sure.

they want it done right the first time!!!!!!

and when track promotes SECRET CODE DRILLINGS, that does not help mr and mrs small pro shop do their jobs well.

you your self had doublts>>>>>> and you worked on this new model.

the average small pro shop did not. and must drill it right for their customers. and when they are told>>> attend a seminar to get the codes, they are not please!!!!

drill it using the #1 layout, use normal a-sym layouts, use only 1-2" pins,
stand on your head while drilling etc etc etc.

Track needs to stop playing secret agent man and release all the drilling info, so real pro shops can drill the ball the best way possible for their customers.

go to the web site, { after buying these balls for big bucks from our dist. }
and get a code.

where do you people come up with this stuff.

unbelievable.

one expert on here says throw the drill sheets in the garbage, one says use them, it will be ok, >> and the check is in the mail!!!!

do you people not realize that some pro shops may not want to take the chance and drill a 4" pin using the #1 layout because so many have heard this is a no no.
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #38 on:** October 26, 2007, 03:37:24 PM »

jls,

So finding out for myself so I can give you accurate information was a no no on my part? Rick and I have always been for the bowler and it seems that you guys want to bash us now for doing what we have always done.

It was stated to the pro shops during the trade shows that the shops that sign up for one of our packages would get access to the pro shop side of the site. This was Paul's idea to give the shops that belong to the Legion an edge.

As for one expert saying one thing and us saying another....which of us are tied in with Track? I speak to Paul almost daily and have had extensive conversations with Ron about the Rising. Rick and I were informing people about this ball during the trade shows. I have been testing this ball since June and drilled additional balls so that I can inform people of what I see. The pin distances are not important in this ball. Ron said this "if USBC did not make it a requirement to be on the ball I would not have marked them".....that should tell you how important the cg location is.

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #39 on:** October 26, 2007, 03:47:37 PM »

The other thing is, the forums at tracks web site have carl and rick on there. If you want help or a suggestion on a layout, Pro Shop or not. You can go on there ask for some help and get a layout. Also with the fact that you can use normal Asymetric layouts means you can go grab any asymetric drill sheet and lay the ball out. The truth is layout one will give you the full advantage of the core and cover combo. Also unless you have a super high top weight on your long pin ball you can get the weight out. I have the suggested layout on a 5" pin ball. I just had to pop in a weight hole to get the side weight out.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

revTrex · « **Reply #40 on:** October 26, 2007, 03:51:49 PM »

"This was Paul's idea to give the shops that belong to the Legion an edge"

...and punish those who don't belong. This is ridiculous, my friend, to withhold information from both bowlers and pro shop owners. Oh, sure, I get it -- you want to make it this special thing, where people have to go to your Legion shops, etc. But it will hurt everyone, including you, in the process. Furthermore, the process of withholding information from pro shops who don't subscribe to your company's exclusive club may very well be a sensitive matter in the field of business ethics.

The bottom line is that knowledge must be made available to all. These aren't trade secrets. This isn't sensitive information. It's an %@$#%&! drill sheet, and a clear, technical explanation as to why the Rising is so much more special than the other balls marketed for similar conditions, i.e., LevRG, Attitude, Break, etc. That's all we are asking for.

shelley · « **Reply #41 on:** October 26, 2007, 03:57:52 PM »

quote:
jls,

So finding out for myself so I can give you accurate information was a no no on my part? Rick and I have always been for the bowler and it seems that you guys want to bash us now for doing what we have always done.

Damn, I hate to say it, but I agree with JLS. You can afford to drill several of these balls so that you can know for sure. That's great, someone should do that so that this information is out there. His point is that not all shops can do that and what are those shops supposed to do for their customers? If someone says "follow the drill sheet, this ball is so special that you can't just use standard layouts for strongly asymmetric balls", they are stuck with what's on the drill sheet and can't afford to do anything more creative because they don't know what the result will be.

quote:
It was stated to the pro shops during the trade shows that the shops that sign up for one of our packages would get access to the pro shop side of the site. This was Paul's idea to give the shops that belong to the Legion an edge.

And those that don't have "the edge", they're out of luck. The secrecy, the confusion, it only hurts consumers. How many shops are not part of the Legion and don't get "the edge"? Most? Hardly any? I'd guess that most shops are not part of the Legion, don't have the edge, and run a significant risk of doing stupid stuff with the super-special, super-secret ball. If they have to guess, because they have neither secret stuff nor the money to experiment, if the ball sucks for some customer, they blame Track. The shop doesn't want to deal with the hassle and doesn't carry this brand new hook monster, so they promote other equipment from companies that are actually straightforward with their customers (shops).

quote:
As for one expert saying one thing and us saying another....which of us are tied in with Track?

That's disgusting. You should be ashamed.

I'm all for high tech. New, neat, pushing the envelope. But you can't do good science without the free exchange of information.

I was a Track guy. I loved my Mutant. Whoever has the old list of Track Legion members may take my name off of it. I don't like the runaround, I don't like the secrecy, I don't like the implication that unless you're one of the Chosen, you better just be a good little monkey and follow the included drill sheet.

SH

jhutch769 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 26, 2007, 04:08:26 PM »

I like the ball.. and I would bet that you can make a full arsenal out of this one ball with multiple drillings and surface preps....

revTrex · « **Reply #43 on:** October 26, 2007, 04:15:57 PM »

^^^
Funniest thing today, especially in the context of the above discussion.

I sure as hell wouldn't wager on that bet. I mean, we don't even know the drillings! And it doesn't seem like the 00s at Track want to release them anytime soon.

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #44 on:** October 26, 2007, 04:21:32 PM »

Right now there is three layouts you can place on the rising. The suggested layout that comes on the sheet. Then a pin up layout like you see on the layout sheet for the Kinetic. The other is a trick layout, you must know a bowlers pap to use this layout. Pin to pap is 4", Pin to val is 2", mb to pap is 4" mb to val is 1". This is the trick layout. If you want another layout and your proshop isnt a legion member for the proshop side of the website. You can go join the forums and ask rick or carl for help and get a layout for you. Heck if your proshop wants some other layouts they can do the same.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

six pack · « **Reply #45 on:** October 26, 2007, 04:35:18 PM »

this secret code stuff is all for hype.when it's all said and done it will still be just another bowling ball.BTW my Resurgence was easy to drill and it's a freaking monster in the oil,and I even like the color.
--------------------
playing with track this year,Phenom,Mean machine,power machine and Inertia.(opps,bought a Columbia ball)what's up with that?it's all Ebonite

Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 11934 times)

jhutch769

The Rising Drill Sheet

tenpinspro

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

woodzx12

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

tenpinspro

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Next Level PS

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Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jls

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

revTrex

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

shelley

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jhutch769

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

revTrex

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

six pack

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet