Post by: chitown on January 23, 2006, 10:48:11 AM
The GOO LS cover? A different core? Why call it an Arsenal? From the reviews this ball will be hard to control on sport type conditions for high rev players. This makes sense to me because of the GOO LS cover (responds to friction).
My initial impression is not favorable. First i'm not pleased about the core because I really thought it would be similar to the AR,ANGULAR and AGGRESSIVE cores. Next I didn't like the XCEPTION or DELTA 1 and I feel a lot of that is because of the cover: GOO LS.
For those of you that like the core will probably like this ball. Myself, i'm disappointed.
Edited on 1/23/2006 10:44 PM
Post by: chitown on January 23, 2006, 06:56:24 PM
Post by: SteveAustin2808 on January 23, 2006, 07:49:15 PM
WOW! This could be good! Well, here comes the Blue Heat, Heat Blast, and Arsenal Artillery..can't help it, this is going to be great! God Bless you CHI and thanks for the info!
--Michael--
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Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on January 23, 2006, 09:44:28 PM
Don't rush bud. The revmaster core is awesome. That core/cover combination could be something sweet to see.
As for being the strongest in the lineup....I really don't know. The way BTM reviews and rates balls....odds are that they give it a high hook rating because it is super strong on the backends.
-Carl
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Post by: Re-Evolution on January 23, 2006, 09:49:52 PM
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Post by: chitown on January 23, 2006, 09:56:19 PM
quote:
chitown,
Don't rush bud. The revmaster core is awesome. That core/cover combination could be something sweet to see.
As for being the strongest in the lineup....I really don't know. The way BTM reviews and rates balls....odds are that they give it a high hook rating because it is super strong on the backends.
-Carl
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C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
www.trackbowling.com
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Tag Team Member #1
Ex your correct. I re read there review and they said that the artillery is the strongest out of the line with respect to the BACK END and not the enitre lane. After reading past issues the aggressive has the highest hook rating out of the line.
I have an aggressive coming. I have the angular and reactive. I like the angular the best so far.
Now for me the GOO LS just isn't a good match. I found it hard to control and be accurate with on tough lanes. Now on a house shot it may have been better but I never got a chance to throw it on a house shot. The GOO LS responds very strong to friction so when it touches the dry the ball takes off. So on tough lanes I found that when the transition started this ball(xception) would head to destinations unknown. On fresh it wasn't as bad but still not great.
The Delta 1 for me wasn't as bad like the xception. I feel the dull surface on the Delta helped the ball from being too jerky when it hit dry. However the Delta drove so hard that if you didn't nail it in the pocket it was split city. I tried it on many conditions and just didn't like the hit. This ball didn't have that Track pin crushing hit like so many of there other releases. I will mention a few of the hardest hitting Track balls: ANIMAL, ANGULAR and REACTIVE.
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on January 23, 2006, 10:08:58 PM
The surface alteration to the original GOOLS (xception) made a huge difference in its change of direction and like/dislike of oil.
I think the high diff low RG core in that shell would be interesting to see. You have been saying recently that you think that symmetrical cores match your game better. This ball could tell you if the coverstock is a bad match for you OR if it is that coverstock on an asymmetrical core that was the bad match. The GOO LS on the Delta1 was pretty nice for me. I really cannot knock the Artillery until I have had a chance to see it on the lanes.
-Carl
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Youngstown Ohio
Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
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Post by: chitown on January 23, 2006, 10:38:13 PM
quote:
chitown,
The surface alteration to the original GOOLS (xception) made a huge difference in its change of direction and like/dislike of oil.
I think the high diff low RG core in that shell would be interesting to see. You have been saying recently that you think that symmetrical cores match your game better. This ball could tell you if the coverstock is a bad match for you OR if it is that coverstock on an asymmetrical core that was the bad match. The GOO LS on the Delta1 was pretty nice for me. I really cannot knock the Artillery until I have had a chance to see it on the lanes.
-Carl
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C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
www.trackbowling.com
www.startabowlingrevolution.com
Tag Team Member #1
Fair enough EX I shouldn't knock a ball unless I throw it. Your correct I really like symmetrical balls better than asymmetrical. For some odd reason the animal just matched up real well for me even though it's asymmetrical.
I have an aggressive coming and I bet this ball will match up with me real well on heavy long patterns. The peak particle is really an awesome cover. I'm starting to think that reactive balls that are not real aggressive and particle balls are a better match for me.
Maybe I will buy a particle ball and see if it works better for me. Ex you got me thinking now. Maybe weaker or should I say more controllable reactive balls work for me and particle balls are more controllable by nature and they work for me.
In fact EX I think the animal and unleashed were the only particle balls I have ever owned aside from the peak particles.
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on January 23, 2006, 10:44:58 PM
That could definately be the case. The GOO LS is really considered a weaker reactive shell though, particularly if you take the polish off of it.
Have you tried a different ball....like the Blue Heat or Solution PP to see if that is correct? The Arsenal Aggressive is definately a good particle ball (you are correct...the peak particle is awesome). That may truely tell you alot.
Another thing....have you still been working on your game...changing release etc...? You may have changed something and that is causing the asymmetrical stuff to be different for you now.
-Carl
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C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
Youngstown Ohio
Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
www.trackbowling.com
www.startabowlingrevolution.com
Tag Team Member #1
Post by: chitown on January 23, 2006, 11:14:26 PM
Post by: clintdaley on January 24, 2006, 08:55:04 AM
Clint
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Clint Daley-Owner
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Post by: Djarum on January 24, 2006, 10:54:18 AM
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: chitown on January 24, 2006, 11:43:20 AM
quote:
Arsenal Artillery Specs:
Ball: RG Diff
16lb 2.458 0.046
15lb 2.462 0.046
14lb 2.486 0.046
Core technology: Revmaster
Coverstock: GOO LS Reactive
Finish: Compound
Colour: Black / Green neon
Track flare: 6"
Hook potential: Dull 30 Polish 24
Length: 6.2
Backend: 8.0
Drill spin time: 5.25
Reaction shape: Strong Arc
Lane condition: medium
Merry Christmas
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Track International Staff
'Turn up the heat'
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BTM says this ball has the strongest backend out of all the arsenals.
Post by: chitown on January 24, 2006, 11:46:18 AM
quote:
Well, I am disappointed. I was hopping for something with a higher RG, and maybe the powerpack pearl or something. I'm not sure what the difference between the power pack and goo ls pearl are. I have seen the arsenal reactive in action, with factory finish, and this ball revs up early on our THS. I think I may actually get my GF one, but not I. I have a problem at times with my Diablo revving up early. Maybe I see a heat blast in the future. I need a benchmark ball.
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
I was hoping it would of had a pearl version of the power pack cover. I also wanted the same core as the other arsenals.
I don't no why they called this ball an arsenal if it didn't have anything similar to the others? The other 3 have the same core with different densities.
Post by: dw23 on January 24, 2006, 12:15:00 PM
DW
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on January 24, 2006, 01:22:01 PM
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Youngstown Ohio
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Tag Team Member #1
Post by: BackToBasics on January 24, 2006, 01:59:22 PM
Aggressive: Solid light load particle that's very strong and pretty even rolling. Requires some head oil to be affective but pretty versatile. Medium-low RG and high diff. Good when they are fresh.
Reactive: Solid/pearl mix with a very log RG core. Good compliment to the Aggressive when you need a little more kick downlane on the medium-heavy patterns but you still need a strong midlane move. Low RG and high diff.
Angular: Light load pearl particle. Pretty strong downlane but can be a little over/under on some conditions. Gets very good length but still can hook a little early on dry heads because of the particle. Not as clean as GOO LS. Med-low RG and med-high diff.
Artillery: Pearl Goo LS cover which is a very clean cover through the fronts but still pretty strong downlane. It's stronger IMHO than Power Plus. I've never had a ball corner like the Xception can. Add in a low RG core and a med-high diff, and you have a ball potentially that's good when the the volume of oil is light but long and when the Aggressive/Reactive are just too early. The low RG, higher flare symmetrical core should help the control issues that most had with the Xception.
I'm actually glad that Track's finally using GOO on a symmetrical core.
Edited on 1/24/2006 2:48 PM
Edited on 1/24/2006 3:26 PM
Post by: wrjjr on January 24, 2006, 02:35:17 PM
Post by: Djarum on January 24, 2006, 02:57:29 PM
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: Hoselrockets on January 24, 2006, 07:15:13 PM
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Joe Jozwik
Central Account Manager
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Post by: icetink on January 24, 2006, 11:14:26 PM
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Dino
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Track
Post by: chitown on January 25, 2006, 12:01:18 AM
I will wait to see what everyone thinks about this ball. I'm in no hurry to run out and get this one.
Post by: charlest on January 31, 2006, 07:35:25 AM
quote:
The Rev was a great ball, glad they are bringing it back out....can't wait to see it!
Clint
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Clint Daley-Owner
The Revmaster and probably the new Artillery had/has the potential to be a great ball if yoU have high ball speed or if you have low revs, neither of which I have. I think if you don't fall into one of the above two categories, you need either a special drilling or a surface modification or a little of both to make this ball work properly. The Revmaster was a short lived ball becuase it filled a specialty niche. A very few people loved it; the rest could take or leave it or just hated it.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Edited on 1/31/2006 8:22 AM
Post by: charlest on January 31, 2006, 07:41:22 AM
quote:
If you take a look at the Arsenal series as a whole, the Artillery is a good completion and compliment to the line. Forget the core shape and look at the numbers and covers.
Artillery: Pearl Goo LS cover which is a very clean cover through the fronts but still pretty strong downlane. It's stronger IMHO than Power Plus. I've never had a ball corner like the Xception can. Add in a low RG core and a med-high diff, and you have a ball potentially that's good when the the volume of oil is light but long and when the Aggressive/Reactive are just too early. The low RG, higher flare symmetrical core should help the control issues that most had with the Xception.
I'm actually glad that Track's finally using GOO on a symmetrical core.
Anthony,
As much as I love looking at the numbers (and you know I LOVE that), you can't just look at the specification numbers. I did, when this thread was first posted and thought almost nothing of the Artillery.
Then I saw the BTM review
(everyone, don't just say their reviews are no good because that is totally invalid. I don't agree with some of them, but their high spread coverage and descriptions are the best there is. No one else's comes close.)
and I just don't like or feel comfortable with the "sound" and look of the review numbers or the descriptions.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: DuckSavant on January 31, 2006, 02:17:22 PM
I have seen a wide range of people be very successful with this type of ball. High Rev players take a note from the tour guys. Drill it 5 to 5 1/2 " from the PAP so it will get down the lane for you. I know I am looking forward to having this type of ball in the line.
--------------------
Duck Savant
University Pro Shop
San Antonio, Texas
Post by: chitown on January 31, 2006, 02:21:34 PM
quote:
This ball at first glance compares to The Action. Low RG,High Diff. Goo LS(M80)
I have seen a wide range of people be very successful with this type of ball. High Rev players take a note from the tour guys. Drill it 5 to 5 1/2 " from the PAP so it will get down the lane for you. I know I am looking forward to having this type of ball in the line.
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Duck Savant
University Pro Shop
San Antonio, Texas
I'm a high rev player and I don't like the goo ls cover. The cover responds to friction very well. This type of cover is not very controllable. The review in BTM also stated this ball wouldn't be good for sport patterns for a high rev player.
I tend to agree with them with respect to the goo ls cover.
Post by: Djarum on February 01, 2006, 11:45:11 AM
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on February 01, 2006, 11:49:04 AM
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Youngstown Ohio
Track Intl.-Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
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Tag Team Member #1
Post by: DuckSavant on February 01, 2006, 04:00:01 PM
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Duck Savant
University Pro Shop
San Antonio, Texas
Post by: Hoselrockets on February 01, 2006, 08:04:17 PM
--------------------
Joe Jozwik
Central Account Manager
Columbia 300, Inc.
1-800-531-5920
Post by: chitown on February 01, 2006, 11:17:14 PM
quote:
Keep in mind folks, You have only seen GooLS on asymmetrical balls.. which, by the very nature of the core, lose axis rotation faster and generally create more torque at the breakpoint. Symmetrical balls have a longer transition phase. I think that you will be in for a big surprise when you see and throw this ball. I know for a fact the BTM High Rev ball tester is chomping at the bit to pull this thing out of his bag.
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Duck Savant
University Pro Shop
San Antonio, Texas
If he is chomping at the bit then why did he review it the way he did. They said this is not a good ball for a sport pattern for the high rev player. I tend to agree because I feel the Goo LS responds to friction so much that it's uncontrollable. I have had the Delta 1 and the xception both use the Goo LS. I don't have them anymore if that tells you anything.
Edited on 2/2/2006 0:04 AM
The Goo LS may work for some but it just doesn't suit my game well. It seems like Track is going in the GOO LS direction. It seems that this cover will be around a while. I hope Track has some different covers in the works. I'm starting to like what Hammer has going with there Doom cover.
Edited on 2/2/2006 0:11 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 01, 2006, 11:32:48 PM
And been rolled into a bunch of great balls.
I first saw it in the Nuline Virus!
http://www.ballreviews.com/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ManufacterID=9&BallID=205
See Virus core...note that it is slightly higher RG and lower diff from the Revmaster version of this very similar core!
It was also included in the Deadly Virus....AMF Victory SPT....and the Wow Pearl.
ALL very good balls. I liked the core so much I purchased the whole list above...except the revmaster!
A friend of mine just pulled out his Victory SPT that he had put to restfor about 3 months...and he was impressed all over again!
I loved all of mine with this core!
REgards,
LUckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: AdrianS on February 02, 2006, 08:04:59 PM
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Oh well!!! Big T and Big B= Big $$$$$$
Morpheous= The Omega core with a brain!!!!
Post by: Strapper_Squared on February 09, 2006, 11:49:27 AM
Thanks,
S^2
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