Post by: Chief BK on July 01, 2009, 06:02:29 AM
To the gang at the factory...I honestly think we've done it. This is a grand slam piece.
Myself and other Staffers will be reporting back very soon with detailed reviews of the 930T.
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Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
Post by: J_Mac on July 01, 2009, 02:20:43 PM
Of the 4 companies coming out of Hopkinsville, Track is the one that I see the least of in this area.
If it wasn't for someone being on staff locally, they'd be very scarce.
Post by: JoshY on July 01, 2009, 02:53:09 PM
How do the two compare?
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 01, 2009, 04:51:32 PM
I've seen the 930T in action, but I highly doubt I'll test one. I do not have a slot for it in my arsenal.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: Chief BK on July 01, 2009, 11:32:05 PM
--------------------
Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
Post by: HEAVENSFORGOTTEN on July 02, 2009, 01:54:14 AM
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WHEN YOU SEE INDIANS BE FEARFUL, WHEN YOU DON'T SEE ANY INDIANS BE TWICE AS FEARFUL- HELLEN KHELLER
Post by: HEAVENSFORGOTTEN on July 02, 2009, 01:58:36 AM
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WHEN YOU SEE INDIANS BE FEARFUL, WHEN YOU DON'T SEE ANY INDIANS BE TWICE AS FEARFUL- HELLEN KHELLER
Post by: Weaser on July 02, 2009, 09:27:57 AM
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Gary
Proud Member of the Track Legion
Tag Team Coaching Success Story
Post by: pnj1967 on July 02, 2009, 09:45:21 AM
quote:
when is it expected to be released?
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WHEN YOU SEE INDIANS BE FEARFUL, WHEN YOU DON'T SEE ANY INDIANS BE TWICE AS FEARFUL- HELLEN KHELLER
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Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.
Post by: Chief BK on July 02, 2009, 10:39:18 AM
Would I class it in the GP2, Robo, Delta Catagory....no. This ball is in a class by itself. For me, it's a reaction shape that I have not seen in any of our San Antonio or Hopkinsville pieces. This is a new beast...and I do mean beast! I've gone as far down as 1000 with it on a fairly heavy volume 50' pattern and tested it against a GP2 that I had sitting in the closet with 4 games on it. Again...this ball stands alone. The cover seems to be pretty friendly to adjustment. I'll be drilling a second 930T tomorrow and it will start with a little shine. I will report back on how the ball accepts and reacts with polish.
--------------------
Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
Post by: Weaser on July 02, 2009, 01:06:53 PM
--------------------
Gary
Proud Member of the Track Legion
Tag Team Coaching Success Story
Post by: pnj1967 on July 02, 2009, 02:15:26 PM
quote:
What surface is OOB on the 930T????? If the reaction is unique to Track, what competitor's ball(s) would it most likely compare to????? I am assuming that 1000A is the most advantageous for heavy oil????
--------------------
Gary
Proud Member of the Track Legion
Tag Team Coaching Success Story
--------------------
Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.
Post by: Norm1184 on July 02, 2009, 02:39:06 PM
Once you go Track, you won't go back. (haha, that is lame) The 715 is definitely longer than the UpRising, but the 930T is stronger end to end. I love my SE, and its hook potential doesn't compare to the 930.
Don't let pro shop guys sell you another ball, my suggestion is to go ask for it. If you like hook, if you bowl on oil, get the 930T.
Post by: stopncrank on July 02, 2009, 02:59:47 PM
--------------------
STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on July 02, 2009, 08:43:42 PM
quote:quote:
The 930T is crazy. It out hooks the Virtual from storm by a mile.
Ill believe this when I see it. And if it is true, who needs a ball that strong? Most people don't see enough oil for their virtuals let alone something that outhooks it by a "mile"
Did ebonite international tell all their staff members to say how much more each of their new releases hooks more than storms or roto grips cause that's all I'm seeing. I'm sure this will be a great ball but is all the Bs marketing hype really needed?
Also did these staff members actually throw the balls compared to a virtual? If they did, isint that a breach of their staff contract?
Sorry I'm done ranting now
To answer your question about if we have thrown a VG next to the 930T. No, however some of the staffers like myself were signed on for this coming year. Last year I threw a few VGs that belonged to others, with multiple layouts. The one VG I had the same layout as I have on my now 930T. The VG was for me able to be played ball at 24 at the arrows out to 7 and back. The 930T I have drilled on the same shot can only hold the pocket if I gutter cap it to land and cross the arrows at 35 and out to 5. If I miss in it runs and hits left of head pin. If I get it out I leave a stone 9 pin because it comes in with way to much angle.
The ball is strong, however you need alot of oil to see it really perform. It is not going to be the normal league night ball for most guys. However the player who has their speed way higher then there rev rate calls for, he will get alot of use from this ball.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Youngstown, Ohio
Track Live Chat Tech Support
Track HITMAN.
Tag Team Coaching Success Story.
http://www.c-gproshop.com/
Post by: Reverendwaz on July 02, 2009, 09:59:03 PM
Post by: dw23 on July 03, 2009, 03:53:27 AM
quote:
To this point I have owned 4 track balls and the result has been the same in each one ... Ball Death the covers just went away so fast . I'm not bashing please don't take it like that but for me ever to buy another track ball its really really going to have to be a great piece. Altho the 930t sounds rather exciting why does it have to be a hook monster. I guess it will be good for some if that's the case great. Oh and also the ball death was before and after ebo
I Just don't get it. I have owned hundreds of ball and have only seen ball death in a couple. I have old Track equipment from the 1990's that have been sitting in my closet for years. I gave a few of them to up and comming youngster in the area and they still look and hit great.
I have not matched up well with the new Track stuff but I still haven't seen any ball death from any of the Ebonite companies. Guess I am just lucky.
Post by: Chief BK on July 03, 2009, 10:00:07 AM
quote:
just what the bowling world needs, another hook monster. those are some mighty strong claims, i look forward to seeing it compared to a virtual or a jigsaw.
--------------------
STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!
From what I hear, that's already been done at Expo...
Result...930T by 5 boards at all parts of the lane.
--------------------
Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
Post by: flounder6639 on July 03, 2009, 06:08:27 PM
--------------------
paul seay
track regional staff
Post by: flounder6639 on July 03, 2009, 08:55:12 PM
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paul seay
track regional staff
Post by: louf846 on July 03, 2009, 09:19:58 PM
I also don't believe the VG and Cell were huge hookers either. I think if I were to throw those balls, the 930T would compare very closely in terms of overall hook.
Also, don't forget, it is nice to be on staff and get to throw these balls for free but the majority of the staff are tournament bowlers and they wouldn't be using the product if they didn't think it was as good as anything else they could be throwing. I am fortunate to represent Track and believe that our product stacks up against anything else in the industry. We are just getting the word out.
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Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: Chief BK on July 03, 2009, 09:42:28 PM
quote:quote:
The 930T is crazy. It out hooks the Virtual from storm by a mile.
Ill believe this when I see it. And if it is true, who needs a ball that strong? Most people don't see enough oil for their virtuals let alone something that outhooks it by a "mile"
Did ebonite international tell all their staff members to say how much more each of their new releases hooks more than storms or roto grips cause that's all I'm seeing. I'm sure this will be a great ball but is all the Bs marketing hype really needed?
Also did these staff members actually throw the balls compared to a virtual? If they did, isint that a breach of their staff contract?
Sorry I'm done ranting now
One thing people need to understand about the industry. Everyone looks at a ball of the year and thinks..."How can we do this and do it better?"
If the SE was ball of the year, everybody out here would be comparing their new stuff to the SE. It's the nature of the industry. For now, our job is to give the general public an honest opinion on our brand's equipment. I feel that the Staff has done just that. If it wasn't as strong as a VG, somebody would likely say so, but still focus on other positive traits of the ball. This just happens to be a case where...as noted in the thread title "We've never seen anything like this."
Take it for what it's worth, but don't knock it until you've tried it.
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Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
Post by: louf846 on July 03, 2009, 09:44:35 PM
I can't utilize these stronger layouts on high mass bias balls due to have slower ball speed, I use much weaker mass bias positions and wouldn't see this increase hook potential like some other bowlers could.
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Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: DP3 on July 04, 2009, 09:52:14 AM
I'm not criticizing the ball as I have not thrown it, just trying to see what else it has to offer besides the seemingly vauge "IT HOOKS" staff information. To me, the Rising and Rising SE were extremely impressive for how much they hooked when nothing else did, but after a game or game and a half the ball was pretty useless as it did not correspond well to drying transitions in the midlane.
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-DJ Marshall
just another never was
Post by: Coolerman on July 04, 2009, 10:43:30 AM
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on July 06, 2009, 10:11:51 AM
quote:
Also did these staff members actually throw the balls compared to a virtual? If they did, isint that a breach of their staff contract?
I do not know if any have, but this wouldn't be a breach of contract.....contracts specifically state "during any competition". So testing against another ball doesn't put them in breach. I doubt many staff guys are out doing this though.
There are some newer folks on here that may not have read any threads or posts I have made. We had this credibility issue in the past when Mr Leong and myself would post things. I still stand true---------and speak for myself. When I say something that is my word, and my word is very important to me and to the success of my business.
In defense of staff players there are a few things that people do not understand. These guys are not paid to throw those balls. Most of them throw Track Equipment because they feel that the equipment can help them bowl better. I do not think a bowler would choose to be a staff member if they felt that it was going to hurt their bowling.
-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Austintown Ohio (Wedgewood Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)
www.c-gproshop.com
Track Bowling Tech Advisor
churd@trackbowling.com
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com
Tag Team Member #1
TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder
Post by: Chief BK on July 06, 2009, 10:59:29 AM
I used the ball this weekend and survived the transition. It's not a one game piece. You'll definitely have longevity. I also had the chance to throw it in an ugly mixed league carrydown situation (I was the only person throwing a ball from the reactive era). The ball handled the drag like a champ.
To those who think they hype isn't true and that we're doing this only because we have to... I can only say one thing. Don't knock it until you've tried it. We wouldn't be here if we didn't think the balls were that good.
As for seeing the movie before, think of all the balls you listed as sequels that keep getting better. This is the sequel. This IS the next big thing.
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Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
Post by: Chief BK on July 06, 2009, 11:22:29 AM
quote:
For me it is the best HP Track ball for a long time even back to San Antonio days.
We have a real winner here, it just has to get in enough hands to realize it
I'll second that! I was telling a local shop owner the same thing.
This is exactly what we needed. The 930T will be to Hopkinsville what the Heat was to San Antonio.
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Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
Post by: Coolerman on July 06, 2009, 10:24:13 PM
Post by: Strider on July 07, 2009, 05:53:51 AM
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: CharlieBrown on July 07, 2009, 06:30:50 AM
quote:
I think I have seen this movie before,just another year.Each year we think we have never seen a certain ball reaction that is beyond belief.I just want everyone to get in their way back machine and, travel back in time to view these super, jaw dropping, never seen and never will again mega monsters. 1.1995 Columbia-Cuda/C 2.1996 Brunswick-Danger Zone 3.Faball -Hammer-3D 4.1996 Storm-Thunderstorm ,1996 Ball of The Year and one of the largest flaring balls ever made 8"plus . 5.1998 Storm- El Nino 6.2001 Track-EMB-XF 6.2004 Brunswick-Ultimate Inferno 7. Ebonite-The One 8. 2008 Roto Grip-Cell 9.2008 Storm-Virtual Gravity .Just want to say ,that when you think you have seen something different in hook ,ball reaction and shape the ball takes on the lane ,think again.
I didn’t realise the EMB xF was rated so highly. I love that ball. Mine has so much mileage and is so beaten up I haven’t thrown it for a few years. It’s sitting in my room gathering dust.
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I'm a THS hack and a ball junkie.
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 07, 2009, 05:10:10 PM
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: louf846 on July 07, 2009, 10:03:54 PM
quote:
has anybody seen Mike Wolfe throwing these balls on the show besides me? I'm not saying these balls are bad but I have not seen him hit the 1-3 with the 715 or 930 yet!! This past week the 930 went 60 ft.
Edited on 7/7/2009 8:31 PM
Not one of those shots was near his intended target> Nobody was getting the ball to hook from that part of the lane.
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Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: Chief BK on July 07, 2009, 10:40:33 PM
The ball does make quite a move off the spot. I don't recall using "flippy" in the description. For the layout, it is incredibly with no loss of energy at the bottom of the pattern. This is what is so amazing about this piece. So many other HMB pieces tend to quit or burn out quickly with agressive layouts when thrown too close to the friction. I've had this particular 930T as low as 1000 and still have not seen the ball quit.
--------------------
Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
-Practice doesn't make perfect, it makes champions.
Post by: srlunatic on July 13, 2009, 09:34:45 AM
So you are telling me that Mike was playing the wrong part of the lane and no Track Guy tried to move him??
Or is it that maybe the ball wasn't reacting to what he thought as it seems others were able to be there and not have much problem in scoring??
Norm Duke was throwing the fast about the same area and that ball was money..
Just wondering?
--------------------
“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
Post by: srlunatic on July 13, 2009, 09:37:03 AM
If the 930T was MILES MORE THAN THE VIRTUAL...
Shouldn't it have been able to read the lane and make the move???
Just wondering still.....
--------------------
“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
Post by: louf846 on July 13, 2009, 08:19:50 PM
Form your own opinion. We are trying to have constructive conversations about bowling. I see several people who only post in this forum to start stuff.
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Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 13, 2009, 08:23:48 PM
I'll say it.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: HEAVENSFORGOTTEN on July 13, 2009, 11:41:09 PM
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"When there's no hope, defend yourself without mercy, compassion or remorse"
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 14, 2009, 01:26:11 AM
quote:
I haven't yet seen this particular telecast, but from this forum it sounds as though the ball never turned over. Was he using 930t & 715a or just one?
--------------------
"When there's no hope, defend yourself without mercy, compassion or remorse"
He had a couple of good throws, but for the most part it did skid like no tomorrow. I wouldn't use those shows to make my judgement on those balls though.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: srlunatic on July 14, 2009, 02:48:54 AM
It seems like it is becoming the Mini Lane 1 type forum. Meaning that the staffers say how great the stuff is and tell us how much ball this is and that it out hooks so and so by miles and such and really don't give us any useful information like oh ....a video or two to compare.
Then when the ball is used and it doesn't live up to the hype that the staffers have thrown out there (this weekend's show being a great example), they make up the excuses or take it personally.
The point is, until we get to see videos of the ball and in comparison to other balls and not just the oh man the 905 will outhook everything, minimize transition, cook you dinner and drive you home from the bowling center.....
--------------------
“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
Post by: neverbackdown_x7x on July 14, 2009, 06:16:07 AM
Post by: azus on July 14, 2009, 07:21:38 AM
--------------------
I like my coffee black, just like my metal.
What would Chuck Norris do?
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
Cute Bunny! copy bunny into sig to help him achieve world domination
Post by: Chief BK on July 14, 2009, 12:00:54 PM
--------------------
Brian Krantz
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
-Practice doesn't make perfect, it makes champions.
Post by: Mitch Beasley on July 14, 2009, 08:07:19 PM
The ball is very versatile in its drillings and what it will do with different surfaces.
Any ball is subject to the drill pattern and surface prep. Mike's were too shiny with the pin too far from axis on what they were bowling on. If he had hit the ball with 2000 to knock some of the polish off you would have seen a lot different reaction and he would have had some area. Most of the staffers are trying to help people understand the new product so you can make an informed decision about it. We are a nich company that is in the process of regaining our market share so you will not see our balls in every proshop.
Most league bowlers don't know that a good percent of proshops have contracts with a bowling company to stock their product and can only give a small part of its shelf space to other companies. Sometimes that means that they can't carry certain companies balls at all because it states that in their contract. The reason they do this is for discounts on all their product so they can make more profit.
I have tested every manufacture's balls in the last year and I can state that the 930T is a bigger ball than the Virtual Gravity for a fact. The reason that Storm dominated the shows on tour is because there was almost no oil on tour last year and their coverstocks are the weakest of any major manufacturer.
Storm makes some really good product and I liked several of the balls I tested but I think our product is superior that is why I am on Track Staff.
--------------------
Northwest Region PBA
Track Tour Staff
Beasley pro shop
Post by: SKIDSNAP on July 14, 2009, 08:25:49 PM
So now you are making excuses for Mike's ball reaction (Mike's team won didn't they?) and you are giving the company line regarding what happened on tour last year regarding oil volume and ball choices.
How about this?
Stop making excuses, make some shows and get the balls in the hands of free agents as well. If they work well shops will stock them.
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 14, 2009, 09:27:53 PM
quote:
I have tested every manufacture's balls in the last year and I can state that the 930T is a bigger ball than the Virtual Gravity for a fact. The reason that Storm dominated the shows on tour is because there was almost no oil on tour last year and their coverstocks are the weakest of any major manufacturer.
Wow, that is a pretty bold statement. I'd like to hear the specifics as to why.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: louf846 on July 14, 2009, 09:33:28 PM
I have met Mitch, he is a stand up guy and is very honest. If he says it, he believes it.
He didn't say their balls were only good because there was no oil on tour, I believe the word was dominated. Look at their national staff guys. Those guys have had success through out their career regardless of whose balls they threw.
Best of luck this year on tour Mitch. Thanks for your explanation on Mike's ball reaction. Hope to see you in Indianapolis when the US Open comes to town.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 14, 2009, 09:50:24 PM
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: SKIDSNAP on July 14, 2009, 10:06:51 PM
Pardon me if I came across as attacking Mitch personally regarding the making shows comment. I meant that the balls need to get on telecasts and shops will be much more open to carrying Track product.
In regards to the "no oil on tour comment" that is garbage!! The only people who have been saying that in public have been sponsored by the same group of companies. It is sour grapes as far as I am concerned. It has to do with surface friction (Ra, Rs etc...). Storm had found a working formula that the other companies had not found.
Who is to say that the new product from other companies have not found a working formula as well.
Post by: nospareball on July 14, 2009, 10:31:02 PM
With those two statements being true then why do companies keep making balls stronger and stronger when oil patterns keep getting lighter and lighter? I don't remember ever seeing the VG thrown on tour, just Storms lower end stuff mostly. So if the VG was too strong for the tour patterns, and a typical house pattern is shorter and has less volume than tour patterns then most people would be better off throwing lower end stuff.
I know people will buy it, people always buy oil monsters. But really most would be better off with something that doesn't hook quite as much so they don't end up having to put a 7" pin to pap like Mike did on the telecast to try and get it down the lane.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh, and while I'm here, is this the first ball with a .030 Mass Bias? The highest I can remember is .02x.
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-Clint
Post by: DP3 on July 14, 2009, 10:45:23 PM
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
just another never was
Post by: BKloss on July 14, 2009, 10:54:35 PM
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Post by: SleepOnIce on July 14, 2009, 11:07:23 PM
quote:
In regards to the "no oil on tour comment" that is garbage!! The only people who have been saying that in public have been sponsored by the same group of companies. It is sour grapes as far as I am concerned. It has to do with surface friction (Ra, Rs etc...). Storm had found a working formula that the other companies had not found.
Good, it's not like Mitch was on tour or anything last year. PA also said the same thing on an Xtra frame broadcast, I think the Dick Weber Open, and he is a free agent so it's not like he's promoting a different company.
quote:
Oh, and while I'm here, is this the first ball with a .030 Mass Bias? The highest I can remember is .02x.
--------------------
-Clint
The rising line were all .030+, I believe. If you are including other companies a lot of Mo's stuff is at or over .03.
--------------------
BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Edit: Quoted the wrong guy
Edited on 7/15/2009 11:56 AM
Post by: Chief BK on July 14, 2009, 11:16:52 PM
quote:
How about this?
Stop making excuses, make some shows and get the balls in the hands of free agents as well. If they work well shops will stock them.
Sure sounded like a personal attack to me.
You are correct though...Mike's team did win and he's got a nice chunk of change to show for it.
Most people are here to collect information about bowling equipment. We are here to provide them with accurate information. We are not here to get into a whizzing contest with the general public or to bash other manufacturers in any way.
I started this thread with a very bold yet accurate statement about the 930T. I anticipated a fair amount of discussion about the ball. I did not expect somebody to attack a very accomplished bowler. The fact that he is a Track Staff member has absolutely nothing to do with this response. I think it was a comment that should have been given a little more thought before it was posted.
What Mitch posted was not a "company line". He is correct. I encourage you to watch the tapes and you will see that Mitch's comment about surface and layout are accurate. I also agree with Mitch when he says that a little touch with a 2k pad would have given a much different look.
As for comparing our brand to others, Mitch has done more of that testing than any of us on staff and is more than qualified to provide you with the results.
The bottom line is simple...
We have released factual information. Everybody is entitled their opinion on this info. The only request that I have is that you try it for yourself before forming your opinions. We didn't decide that this ball was the next big thing before we threw it. We gave it a chance, put it through the tests and compared it to the biggest things on the market. If you choose not to believe or agree with what you're being told, that's entirely up to you. Just remember...you can't knock it until you've had it in YOUR hands.
--------------------
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
-Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes champions!
Edited on 7/14/2009 11:23 PM
Post by: Mitch Beasley on July 15, 2009, 12:23:13 AM
Tour had less than half of the oil normally found on a house shot last year. The normal house shot has between 80 and 100 units in the front and has about 40 units at 25 feet. Almost all of the patterns we bowled on all year had less than 50 units in the front and dropped to around 8 units around 25 feet. Three times we bowled on less than 40 units. Plus we have over twice the rev rate on tour as league so we rip the oil off the lane 4 times faster than in league. We put the scorpion down to practice and the guys couldn't believe how fast they had start moving left and how much they had to move.
I didn't understand what happens to the lanes on tour until I bowled out there. It is a different world and if you don't understand how the lanes change differently you will die a quick death.
I believe in the equipment and will put it against anything on the market. If I didn't believe in it I wouldn't risk my bowling career with only three balls in production for me to throw.
--------------------
Northwest Region PBA
Track Tour Staff
Beasley pro shop
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 15, 2009, 01:11:46 AM
quote:
I believe in the equipment and will put it against anything on the market. If I didn't believe in it I wouldn't risk my bowling career with only three balls in production for me to throw.
--------------------
Northwest Region PBA
Track Tour Staff
Beasley pro shop
I can definitely respect that.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: louf846 on July 15, 2009, 07:01:39 AM
Some balls just happen to match up really good on tour depending on what they are doing at the time with the patterns. Because a ball is not on every TV show doesn't mean it isn't a great ball for what 99% of the people that would be using it bowl on.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: srlunatic on July 15, 2009, 03:33:58 PM
I am still confused though how any ball could outhook a VG buy a mile. Again the point I was making is that it had seem that there was too much exaggeration and not enough evidence about the new equipment. I just drilled up a Mega Friction by AMF and it is stronger and handles more oil than an Super Carbide Bomb did for me. oOw a 930T is going to *outhook this by a mile* seems like a major exaggeration.
As for the tour. It would seem to me that knowing what the tour conditions have been like the last couple of years, knowing that the high rev rates most tour players have, that of course the lanes will see more friction to combat silly high scores you would see if they were bowling the Shark every week. Storm and Roto Grip and the other big brands have a very good variety of balls out there to combat this. Wes using a Cell Pearl to me says that there had to be some decent amounts of oil in many cases. If you know that the lanes are going to get fried quick and that moving left will be the name of the game, why aren't the Track Guru's helping out Mitch and such with very weak layouts, super high polish and such? This is not a slam against Mitch who I have the utmost respect for, it is more a why isn't the Track Line being delivered in a way that will allow for a wide variety of conditions to be met and to excel on the lesser volumes of oil on tour?
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“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
Post by: louf846 on July 15, 2009, 03:40:39 PM
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Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: duvallite on July 15, 2009, 05:42:13 PM
quote:
I don't remember ever seeing the VG thrown on tour, just Storms lower end stuff mostly.
Off the top of my head, both Scroggins and O'Neill throw the VG sometimes, and I thought I saw Mika throwing it recently also.
Post by: srlunatic on July 16, 2009, 09:57:39 AM
From what I am reading on your last post it would seem to me you are not providing your Staffers the equipment that will allow them to be successful on tour. The tour conditions have been quite similiar the last 2 years. Also, we know that
1) Tour Player have much higher rev rates
2) Due to this Friction management is the key to success
3) Other companies have the tools to help their staffers achieve number 2 which allows them to compete regularly for titles and not just be on tour.
4) With all that Track has out now as you state, that the newer equipment is filling holes. Is that really true as what we are seeing is no real success for the Track brand in a while. Of course if you have a ball on tour that does well it equates to sales or none of you would be paying the admission fee for being on tour I would think (Lane 1 is a prime example of this)
Again, my point of contention is basically hearing how great the new pieces are but not having anything to base that on other than staffers. For you to say "such and such balls does such and such compared to a Virtual Gravity" really has no basis unless backed with something that shows this. I think many companies have gone this route and it has turned the bowler off to the Staff recs (Brunswick is one prime example I can think of). Tell us what the ball is supposed to do on what conditions and what we can expect and the customer would be quite happy. There is no need to say this ball ....compared to other balls.
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“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
Post by: louf846 on July 16, 2009, 11:44:06 AM
Several companies make great product. Track does not pay incentives to use the balls on TV. Other companies do. The bowlers will use what gives them more money on TV because they need every bit they can get. The show doesn't have the viewers it used to and outside of a few people, has limited influence over ball sales in the long run.
The run the Cell had two years ago is the exception.
The tour conditions were not the same the last two years in terms of volume. I am good friends with an exempt bowler and Mitch has also confirmed they hooked much more this year. The tour also had more rev rate and fewer lefties this year.
I always give nothing but my honest opinion on the balls. I say when I feel it will be useful. I have even stated on here that I am not asking bowlers to drill nothing but Track but the balls are special and I think everyone should have at least one in their three ball bag.
Send me a private message if you want to discuss further. I don't want this to be an argument but I am more than willing to discuss this with you further. The product speaks for itself. Just because thousands of people aren't throwing it and it isn't on TV doesn't mean it isn't great.
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Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: Chief BK on July 16, 2009, 12:06:35 PM
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Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
-Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes champions!
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 16, 2009, 01:33:08 PM
quote:
I always give nothing but my honest opinion on the balls. I say when I feel it will be useful. I have even stated on here that I am not asking bowlers to drill nothing but Track but the balls are special and I think everyone should have at least one in their three ball bag.
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Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
I do remember you saying this.
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You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
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Post by: toomanytenpins on August 03, 2009, 11:17:03 AM
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Post by: OddBalls on August 03, 2009, 11:32:08 AM
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Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..