Author Topic: 2012 Nationals Hook???? (Read 5316 times)

kidlost2000 · « **on:** March 02, 2012, 06:25:24 PM »

Any one watching some of the live streaming from Nationals in Baton Rouge?

I was surprised to see how much the lanes are hooking. I bowl next weekend and watching today both men and women playing anywhere up the right side of the lane are consistently going through the face or Brooklyn. It looks like any where near the first arrow is heavy oiled and won't recover, but any where inside of that is just clearing the first half of the lanes and then hooks strong. (face or Brooklyn) Have to say that I'm extremely surprised.

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Edited by kidlost2000 on 3/2/2012 at 8:49 PM

Russell · « **Reply #31 on:** March 05, 2012, 10:54:39 AM »

+1,000!!!!!!

northface28 wrote on 3/5/2012 9:46 AM:Some of you guys need to knock it off with the Tropical Breeze type balls. For a large percentage of Bowlers that strategy will not play. On anything remotely flat, you have to be incredibly precise as these balls ”squirt” and ”jump” all over the place due to higher rg's, low diff, and not enough flare to control the midlane and backend. Anytime some of you guys see friction is plentiful its automatic weaker balls, foolish 2 inch pin to pap layouts and,many other the sky is falling tactics.

Use some surface, keep your target in front of you, close down your angles, and make your spares. Since its so flat in the middle, most people would be better served balling down and staying to the right as long as possible.

”Who do you think you are? I am!!!!!” -Pete Weber

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Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #32 on:** March 05, 2012, 11:05:47 AM »

Do you think particle coverstocks from year(s) back may be beneficial to help bleed off a little energy and control backend reaction?

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tburky · « **Reply #33 on:** March 05, 2012, 11:45:10 AM »

wabullets wrote on 3/5/2012 8:08 AM:I keep seeing people talking about Defiants, Nanos, Marvels, Modern Marvels......for most people this is the wrong end of the spectrum. You need to thinking about Tropical Breeze Solids or Tropical Heat solids....playing them straighter...up 4,5,6,7.....If play like Russel mentioned "keeping the target in front of you" you can build a little push/hold if you have people working together then shelling up a little to Vioctory Roads or Hy Roads....I dont see why anyone would even want to consider Defiants, Nanos, Marvels, Modern Marvels on this pattern unless you are putting the MB in the track to help compact the flaring and having a good polish on it.

Quite frankly I think I am in the ball park a lot closer than anybody throwing high rg stuff. Marvels are rolly balls especially with surface.

Impending Doom · « **Reply #34 on:** March 05, 2012, 11:52:48 AM »

Personally, from what I am seeing from everyone's description, you might be able to get away with something aggressive drilled weak. In my bag, I could see either the 900 Global Train or an Eagle when I have to create some angle. Maybe ball down to a Hook or even a hype urethane to control the middles.

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TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2012, 12:09:01 PM »

That is exactly my point. People are using the wrong ball matchup and then complaining about how much hook there is, which is either being stubborn or just inexperienced; maybe a little bit of both. I am sure this happens every year. But I believe this year to be different. USBC is finally doing something about the 2300s, 300s, and 800s being shot each year. What I am already interested in seeing, is the feedback from bowlers that go out there and what effect this has for next years tournament and years down the road. In regards to Russell's post, as I stated before, my initial plan is to play in around 15, stay firm, and playout out to 10ish breakpoint with something pretty weak. I have no intention of taking anything strong and playing 20-25 at the arrows. In years past, I would go ahead and get into 20-22 at the arrows with something around 2000 abralon and play out to 8-10. Not this year. Plan on taking low flaring stuff (.03 diff type equipment) and staying, for me, straighter up the lane. Just for sake of staying open minded, I am taking one ball that has diff of .065 but will have it polished to help it through the front part of the lane. My advice, is that if you are used to shooting 1800+ every year and this year you shoot 1600, dont say we didnt warn you if you didnt take something weaker.

wabullets wrote on 3/5/2012 8:08 AM:
I keep seeing people talking about Defiants, Nanos, Marvels, Modern Marvels......for most people this is the wrong end of the spectrum. You need to thinking about Tropical Breeze Solids or Tropical Heat solids....playing them straighter...up 4,5,6,7.....If play like Russel mentioned "keeping the target in front of you" you can build a little push/hold if you have people working together then shelling up a little to Vioctory Roads or Hy Roads....I dont see why anyone would even want to consider Defiants, Nanos, Marvels, Modern Marvels on this pattern unless you are putting the MB in the track to help compact the flaring and having a good polish on it.

Peace doesnt always have to be silent.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2012, 12:19:05 PM »

For the guys that have higher rev rates, such as myself, we will need weaker stuff. When I say weaker stuff, I am more in tune to what I plan on doing and in response to others saying "There is a ton of hook in the middle. YES. You can use weaker stuff with lower diffs. It all boils down to layout and surface prep like any other ball that goes down the lane. I was not able to go last year, but ever since Baton Rouge 6 years ago, I have shot nothing less than 720 in singles taking the same 2 balls each time (Columbia Rock On and Visionary Green Gargoyle). Those same 2 balls are going with me yet again this year. I totally understand this will not work for everyone because everyone does not have a 500rpm rev rate. Unless you throw the ball 20mph, this year, people wont need high end stuff with high rev rates. If the volume is lower and the pattern is a couple feet shorter, why would you need the high end stuff? Balls such as a Gamebreaker, Game Changer, and other mid performance stuff should work just fine. Unfortunately I dont go out until May 1 so I cant give any feedback until then. But, I have mentioned that there will be some people, but not most, that will need some higher end stuff because they simply have no rev rate.

northface28 wrote on 3/5/2012 9:46 AM:Some of you guys need to knock it off with the Tropical Breeze type balls. For a large percentage of Bowlers that strategy will not play. On anything remotely flat, you have to be incredibly precise as these balls ”squirt” and ”jump” all over the place due to higher rg's, low diff, and not enough flare to control the midlane and backend. Anytime some of you guys see friction is plentiful its automatic weaker balls, foolish 2 inch pin to pap layouts and,many other the sky is falling tactics.

Use some surface, keep your target in front of you, close down your angles, and make your spares. Since its so flat in the middle, most people would be better served balling down and staying to the right as long as possible.

”Who do you think you are? I am!!!!!” -Pete Weber

Peace doesnt always have to be silent.

northface28 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2012, 12:55:05 PM »

Twohand,

You have 500 RPMs and im sure higher ball speed, while 15-10 on the fresh with a weak ball will work for you, I do not believe it will work for a large portion of Bowlers (i.e. Average speed 15 mph and revs 300 RPMs). This method will yield 3-6-10, 3-6-9-10s, or going face every other shot or 2-10, 2-8-10s, or flagging the headpin right. You can forget 1600, Bowlers who try this will be looking at 1450+ type scores.

Stronger balls with surface will tumble and bleed energy evenly. Light polish may be needed on said stronger balls, but dont go nuts like some guys do and lean on the spinner with polish. If guys opt to start at 15, which is incredibly foolish, ALL 10 guys better be there and not spraying it.

”Who do you think you are? I am!!!!!” -Pete Weber

stopncrank · « **Reply #38 on:** March 05, 2012, 03:01:16 PM »

Well I cant speak for Baton Rouge, but I can speak for what I saw at my home center with the pattern. First and foremost, 39 ft. pattern leaves ALOT of backend for everybody.

Like others have said, the straighter players did use Defiants, solid Nexus's, Nano's and so on. The problem is if you go that route good luck having a look for games 2 and 3, and that went for fudgeknucklers, tweeners and crankers. Those covers chewed the fronts up so bad that guys who were trying to play outside had no hold either once their first transitions hit. Be prepared to make big moves if people on your pair go this route.

Like others have said, play as far right as possible as long as you can, cause the fronts and middles get ugly in a hurry. Less ball on this pattern=smaller moves which means more control of the pocket. Outside of 7 in my center was a no no, even for guys with more hand than me. Which leads me to what I said in a prior topic on here, I may be totally wrong but I dont see breaking this pattern down together as a team nowhere near the advantage it has been in recent years, and I think that might have been a silent goal of USBC this year. With so much friction down lane, and the middle so flat I dont see the advantage of breaking this pattern down.

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Jorge300 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 05, 2012, 04:43:17 PM »

Stop,

I disagree with your statements here. I think working together as a team is even MORE important this year. As you mentioned, when the lanes transition, people have been struggling. Well imagine if you have people playing all over the right side and trying to work the transition. You need everyone playing together so that you can move in as a team and play off what you created or move in together to get away from a hang spot you created. The live stream from Thursday showed what happens when you don't play the lanes together as a team. These were some very good bowlers and neither team was plus for team event. If they had played more together, I think you would have seen better results.

Also you said outside 7 was out-of bounds. Was this trying to go straight up outside of 7 or was this people trying to swing it a little to outside of 7? I point back to my prior post and Mo Pinel's thoughts on playing the lanes this year. If there was any swing to get outside of 7 then I think this isn't a tru indication. If they were going straight then maybe Mo is incorrect in his thinking.

stopncrank wrote on 3/5/2012 2:01 PM:
Well I cant speak for Baton Rouge, but I can speak for what I saw at my home center with the pattern. First and foremost, 39 ft. pattern leaves ALOT of backend for everybody.

Like others have said, the straighter players did use Defiants, solid Nexus's, Nano's and so on. The problem is if you go that route good luck having a look for games 2 and 3, and that went for fudgeknucklers, tweeners and crankers. Those covers chewed the fronts up so bad that guys who were trying to play outside had no hold either once their first transitions hit. Be prepared to make big moves if people on your pair go this route.

Like others have said, play as far right as possible as long as you can, cause the fronts and middles get ugly in a hurry. Less ball on this pattern=smaller moves which means more control of the pocket. Outside of 7 in my center was a no no, even for guys with more hand than me. Which leads me to what I said in a prior topic on here, I may be totally wrong but I dont see breaking this pattern down together as a team nowhere near the advantage it has been in recent years, and I think that might have been a silent goal of USBC this year. With so much friction down lane, and the middle so flat I dont see the advantage of breaking this pattern down.

Jorge300

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 05, 2012, 04:54:52 PM »

Ive rarly seen many bowlers that can play consistant up the boards out side of the first arrow. As much oil that there is out there i doubt you will. Most that are playing up the boards outside of the second arrow do not recover when the ball gets close to the first arrow and usually get low pin counts when they do. When you watch the live feeds youcan really learn a lot.

"1 of 1."

Russell · « **Reply #41 on:** March 05, 2012, 04:57:26 PM »

It's just funny seeing some of the replies....

How many times do you see the tour players, even the higher revrate guys, throwing super weak stuff on the shows? How many of their patterns are around 39 feet?

TWOHAND not trying to poke a hole in your argument, but using your success in singles each year as a basis for how to play the fresh is a stretch. Pretty sure the guys that strike a lot in singles aren't playing right of 10 in most cases. At that point the track has been blown up and will allow for the lane to be easily opened up.

I'm not saying you're wrong....but your ball roll is so different than everyone else here. You bowled well recently on a sport condition with a Tornado...how many bowlers can match up with a ball like that to a fresh sport pattern? Even the boomers on tour never throw stuff like that as it would blow past the break point and then on the next shot take 4 through the middle.

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stopncrank · « **Reply #42 on:** March 05, 2012, 05:00:31 PM »

Jorge, during warmups, I tried exactly what Mo had said, and actually the further right I moved past 7 the less hook I saw. Again totally different centers, and Baton Rouge most likely will be different, but just based off what I saw even if I had a team play with me to break em down I still would have had four more on my pair blowing up the track with Nano's, a Defiant and a Nexxus and all four of em were 4000 and lower with no polish. The best look I had was around 7 8 9 board, so if I did start outside of that I would have zero miss right, and if I tug im already in their burn.

Jorge300 wrote on 3/5/2012 3:43 PM:
Stop,

I disagree with your statements here. I think working together as a team is even MORE important this year. As you mentioned, when the lanes transition, people have been struggling. Well imagine if you have people playing all over the right side and trying to work the transition. You need everyone playing together so that you can move in as a team and play off what you created or move in together to get away from a hang spot you created. The live stream from Thursday showed what happens when you don't play the lanes together as a team. These were some very good bowlers and neither team was plus for team event. If they had played more together, I think you would have seen better results.

Also you said outside 7 was out-of bounds. Was this trying to go straight up outside of 7 or was this people trying to swing it a little to outside of 7? I point back to my prior post and Mo Pinel's thoughts on playing the lanes this year. If there was any swing to get outside of 7 then I think this isn't a tru indication. If they were going straight then maybe Mo is incorrect in his thinking.

stopncrank wrote on 3/5/2012 2:01 PM:

Well I cant speak for Baton Rouge, but I can speak for what I saw at my home center with the pattern. First and foremost, 39 ft. pattern leaves ALOT of backend for everybody.

Like others have said, the straighter players did use Defiants, solid Nexus's, Nano's and so on. The problem is if you go that route good luck having a look for games 2 and 3, and that went for fudgeknucklers, tweeners and crankers. Those covers chewed the fronts up so bad that guys who were trying to play outside had no hold either once their first transitions hit. Be prepared to make big moves if people on your pair go this route.

Like others have said, play as far right as possible as long as you can, cause the fronts and middles get ugly in a hurry. Less ball on this pattern=smaller moves which means more control of the pocket. Outside of 7 in my center was a no no, even for guys with more hand than me. Which leads me to what I said in a prior topic on here, I may be totally wrong but I dont see breaking this pattern down together as a team nowhere near the advantage it has been in recent years, and I think that might have been a silent goal of USBC this year. With so much friction down lane, and the middle so flat I dont see the advantage of breaking this pattern down.

Jorge300

Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time....

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concerning the Seismic lineup!

230-n-up-or-bust · « **Reply #43 on:** March 05, 2012, 05:02:34 PM »

"keep the breakpoint in front of you.."...is that's the case, you're speaking to a guy that's destined for 2200+ AE this year 'cause with my widebody, there's only about three of four boards I'm not behind...lol. For a VAST majority of the folks that are going to Baton Rouge, these words may be the best advice you'll hear.

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Jorge300 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 05, 2012, 05:20:12 PM »

Stop,

Thanks for the insights.

My thoughts on it were this (and this is without getting to throw on the patten as of yet): If you followed Mo's advice and went straight up the very outside (2-3 board) and could find a shot you would automatically create a little bit of tug room. As that has the heavier concentration of oil, a slight tug would act like pointing the ball slightly to the pocket. And with so little room right, you would narrow the chances of missing right as well. Again this is just theory and not sure how it would work in reality. I think straight up 6-7-8 area will probably wind up being the best shot, but I am intriqued by Mo's take as I have come to like playing out in that area over the last few years (not at the USBC Open, just in general. I am huge fan of the Cheetah pattern, lol).

stopncrank wrote on 3/5/2012 4:00 PM:
Jorge, during warmups, I tried exactly what Mo had said, and actually the further right I moved past 7 the less hook I saw. Again totally different centers, and Baton Rouge most likely will be different, but just based off what I saw even if I had a team play with me to break em down I still would have had four more on my pair blowing up the track with Nano's, a Defiant and a Nexxus and all four of em were 4000 and lower with no polish. The best look I had was around 7 8 9 board, so if I did start outside of that I would have zero miss right, and if I tug im already in their burn.

Jorge300

tburky · « **Reply #45 on:** March 05, 2012, 05:34:40 PM »

I too believe working as a team is more important than ever. Just take a look at the video of 900 Global of S FL and Don Carter Line. As Riggs previously mentioned on here those 2 teams have a lot of accomplishments in bowling. However I believe they didn't work together to break the lanes down and look at the reaction when the righties possibly moved in too quickly. I think this led to the scores being low. i wasn't there but it's just an observation.