Post by: kidlost2000 on March 02, 2012, 06:25:24 PM
Any one watching some of the live streaming from Nationals in Baton Rouge?
I was surprised to see how much the lanes are hooking. I bowl next weekend and watching today both men and women playing anywhere up the right side of the lane are consistently going through the face or Brooklyn. It looks like any where near the first arrow is heavy oiled and won't recover, but any where inside of that is just clearing the first half of the lanes and then hooks strong. (face or Brooklyn) Have to say that I'm extremely surprised.
"1 of 1."
Edited by kidlost2000 on 3/2/2012 at 8:49 PM
Post by: strikeking on March 02, 2012, 06:39:05 PM
What I saw was most men were somewhere around the 15th or 20th board going out to 10. If they missed the 10 board down lane they missed the pocket. A few were going straight down 10. The secret seems to be to hit the 10 board at the break point. The lefties were all over the place.
Strikeking
Post by: Andyman3333 on March 02, 2012, 07:06:18 PM
Pretty obvious the balls are picking up the friction real early in the middle of the lane. My opinion is this is causing ball cores to migrate too soon leaving nothing for the backend of the lane if you get it to the right where there isn't a defined burn spot or track. I was suprised to see them in and around 3rd arrow in game 1. I would anticipate the great teams to learn from this and play as straight as possible in game 1 playing straight up 5-6-7. With firm speed and some surface, 2000 or so to tame the backend.
These guys are all very talented, but I didn't see any organized strategy for performance. And yet they still managed to get near 3000. Which leads me to believe that if a team attacks the lane with a decisive strategy, we'll see a nice score.
This being the first webcast, these guys didn't have the advantages of people going later who can watch this or multiple webcasts and gather info.
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The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
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Post by: tburky on March 02, 2012, 07:34:02 PM
Post by: sevenpin63 on March 02, 2012, 07:46:38 PM
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: Track_Fanatic on March 02, 2012, 08:28:47 PM
Here's a link to Bowl.com where it lists the streaming.
Post by: kidlost2000 on March 02, 2012, 09:48:45 PM
"1 of 1."
Edited by kidlost2000 on 3/2/2012 at 8:49 PM
Post by: sevenpin63 on March 02, 2012, 09:54:05 PM
I see the same thing, allot of nose shots, and Brooklyn's.
Also I notice that the bowlers who have allot of loft are fairing better than those that lay the ball down.
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Edited by sevenpin63 on 3/2/2012 at 9:15 PM
Post by: kidlost2000 on March 02, 2012, 11:51:55 PM
"1 of 1."
Post by: tburky on March 03, 2012, 12:08:28 AM
Post by: Tex on March 03, 2012, 12:33:08 AM
Not too far off from making a trip across town to Arington and the ITRC. They put out the Nationals condition for practice and at a reasonable price per hour. If you live around DFW is a good opportunity. If you want to fork out some serious cash, you can get coached as well.
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Post by: riggs on March 03, 2012, 05:43:39 AM
Some thoughts here ... includes link to video archive and news release:
The 11th Frame: How tough is the Open Championships condition?
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Post by: Mike James on March 03, 2012, 07:49:59 AM
What i saw from the live streaming is...the best look is with something tame....problem becomes when you have to move in or change balls....its hard enough to get a good reaction and carry with one ball....but two?......both teams had their best score the 1st game then went down from there
Post by: Russell on March 03, 2012, 09:26:53 AM
I think too many people are psyching themselves out to this pattern.....
Let's think about this....
If you have ever bowled on Viper...what happens if you try to go left to right on the fresh? The ball horribly over reads the middle and hangs when you get it past the track at all. This is true of any pattern where the length is less than 40 feet and there is a decent amount of friction downlane.
If you start further right with less axis rotation and some surface, most of these patterns aren't horrible. No they aren't easy, but by going more direct and lowering your axis rotation, your misses are smaller and spares more makeable.
I watched the live stream the other day for the first game and noticed that in practice a few of the guys went more direct up the lane, then took a big step left at the end of practice. I really thought the balls that were around 5-8 at the arrows and at the breakpoint had the best looks. Anything that went away from the head pin required some pretty sharp shotmaking.
I think this will be like most years.....if you move left too fast....you will perish in team event. Too many modern bowlers think that playing "straight" is 12 to 7 and not having the breakpoint actually in front of them. This is incredibly important when bowling on a pattern where the middle hooks a lot and there is OB.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: south fl bowler on March 03, 2012, 09:44:23 AM
CUBS WIN!!!!!!!!!
Post by: batbowler on March 03, 2012, 11:42:56 AM
39' length with 6 loads outside and 1 load on the others. Playing up the boards with a mild reactive ball with surface. Shots that are missed left for righties doesn't have the extra hold in the middle and are badly missed left of pocket. If you miss right and get the ball right of 5 it's very ugly if not in the gutter. We've had the shot out for two weeks and I've seen some really good scores playing up the boards between 10 and 6, but don't miss early right!!!! We checked the pattern and it has a very flat shape and you can once they open up play deeper, but you still have to make good shots!!! 39' pattern has 21' before the head pin, which give the ball lots of room to hook so don't pull your shots and you'll be ok!!! I've seen strong bowling balls play up the outside, but it was very tricky and shots missed right was in the gutter!!!
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Post by: TWOHAND834 on March 03, 2012, 02:52:37 PM
This is exactly why I plan on taking old and weak equipment. I am taking a Tornado, Warlock, Green Gargoyle, 3D Pearl Hammer, AMB Solid, and a spare ball. My mindset, and dont flame me too hard, is that 39 feet is that of a THS. It really boils down to the volume of the USBC shot compared to a THS. Before you flame me, I completely understand that the shot plays much tougher than a THS. I am basing this solely on ball matchup. I also understand that not everyone has a 500rpm rev rate either. I would almost expect to see alot of balls like Freezes and mid performance equipment. However, I am sure I will still see quite a bit of higher end stuff due to inexperience and stubborness. Some people will need higher end stuff but most will be more successful with balls that are mid performance in strength. Bowlers will want to trust their equipment as long as they can. My intial plan is to take my Tornado and play around 15 out to around 8-10 breakpoint. I do have a practice session the night before team event there at the River Center with my team so will adjust accordingly and strategize with them as to the best way to attack it.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: kidlost2000 on March 03, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
"1 of 1."
Post by: BigBaller on March 03, 2012, 05:20:29 PM
I have a little bid of hand, i am more up the back of the ball. I always bowl better in team on the fresh than i do in minors.
I am taking a NEXXUS drilled to arc (MB drilled out in thumb, pin set just to the right of ring finger) i am leaving it OOB.
C-system 3.5 drilled the same as the nexxus sanded to 4000
Mutant Cell pin up between fingers sanded to 2000
Natural OOB drilled to roll.
I will start out 10-5 and from what i have seen i will have no problem getting the ball to wrinkle. I bet i end up using the natural more than anything.
Obviously you were not listening to your ball...
Post by: kidlost2000 on March 03, 2012, 06:45:06 PM
"1 of 1."
Post by: sevenpin63 on March 03, 2012, 06:54:59 PM
Ya, you get to far out and your gone, in to far and your up in the nose. Looks Fun.
You are going to have to be a shot maker this year.
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: Gene J Kanak on March 03, 2012, 09:37:37 PM
Another year, another arsenal of bowling balls, and I'm still a standard house hack!
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Post by: Russell on March 04, 2012, 12:11:42 AM
There are a few things to remember....
On every pattern they put out, if you play 15 at the arrows on the fresh and throw it to 5 it will flag the headpin unless your revrate is really stout....so this is nothing new. The difference this year is more friction downlane, which is freaking everyone out. I stick by my statements, but will add that bowlers like TWOHAND who can create lots of angle through the front and make their ball change direction will be able to play in faster, because of the increased friction.
I still think if you can keep your breakpoint in front of you, or pretty darn close, you can create a look between 5 and 10. If you try to look 12 and throw it to 6, you'll have a pretty rough first game and see variations of the 2/10 on a regular basis.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: tburky on March 04, 2012, 12:50:24 AM
I agree with your statement Russell. I think assymetrical balls probably would make you play more angle thru the front too quickly. I see me starting with a modern marvel drill weakly to control downlane movement or use more surface. The main idea of using surface out of gate is to control down lane movement.
Post by: Pat Patterson on March 04, 2012, 01:22:10 AM
I'm gonna throw whatever I have at the 1-3 Pocket!
Pat Patterson
Post by: neverbackdown_x7x on March 04, 2012, 06:39:12 PM
My strategy for Baton Rouge this year: Don't go left of 10 board.
The last thing I need is to think too much on what line I need to play and get confused or mad about how the lanes are playing. I'm hoping that one of the bowling alleys in my area will do something and try to put that shot out (or something very similar) for us to try.
Post by: LotsaBalls on March 05, 2012, 01:07:33 AM
I bowled a tournament today on the pattern and crossed with a guy that just got back. It hooked alot down lane on the fresh and broke down very fast. I had to get the ball to 6-7 on the fresh or it had no chance of holding pocket. This was on a 1 year old anvilane install. The guy I crossed with said it was very close to what he saw.I have a 450 -500 rev rate and was playing between 5-6 arrow after 6 games with only 4 on a pair. had sucsess with my Hy-Road, Marvel Pearl and Victory Road all had 5 1/2 in layouts. I drilled an Outlaw with a 5 in pin in OOB surface and was not even close to being a choice, hooked as soon as it touched the lane. I am taking my tropical heat solid with a Girard- Boomer layout ( what ever your calling it these days ) as a serious choice on the fresh when I go in a few weeks.
Post by: wabullets on March 05, 2012, 09:08:09 AM
I keep seeing people talking about Defiants, Nanos, Marvels, Modern Marvels......for most people this is the wrong end of the spectrum. You need to thinking about Tropical Breeze Solids or Tropical Heat solids....playing them straighter...up 4,5,6,7.....If play like Russel mentioned "keeping the target in front of you" you can build a little push/hold if you have people working together then shelling up a little to Vioctory Roads or Hy Roads....I dont see why anyone would even want to consider Defiants, Nanos, Marvels, Modern Marvels on this pattern unless you are putting the MB in the track to help compact the flaring and having a good polish on it.
Post by: Jorge300 on March 05, 2012, 10:27:36 AM
From what I have seen, I am tending to agree with Russell here.
But I wanted to ask if anyone has tried playing the lanes like Mo Pinel mentioned in his podcast on Above180. Mo thought the shot should be way outside, going straight up around 2-3 board. I was thinking this might be a good strategy. While watching the Webcast on Thursday, I saw the RH's out at like 4-5 during practice and they seemed to have a good look, but when they started scoring they all jumped left and had trouble. Has anyone tried playing the lanes like Mo suggested? And if so, what did you see?
Jorge300
Post by: northface28 on March 05, 2012, 10:46:47 AM
Use some surface, keep your target in front of you, close down your angles, and make your spares. Since its so flat in the middle, most people would be better served balling down and staying to the right as long as possible.
”Who do you think you are? I am!!!!!” -Pete Weber
Post by: Russell on March 05, 2012, 10:54:39 AM
+1,000!!!!!!
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Strapper_Squared on March 05, 2012, 11:05:47 AM
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Post by: tburky on March 05, 2012, 11:45:10 AM
Quite frankly I think I am in the ball park a lot closer than anybody throwing high rg stuff. Marvels are rolly balls especially with surface.
Post by: Impending Doom on March 05, 2012, 11:52:48 AM
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Post by: TWOHAND834 on March 05, 2012, 12:09:01 PM
That is exactly my point. People are using the wrong ball matchup and then complaining about how much hook there is, which is either being stubborn or just inexperienced; maybe a little bit of both. I am sure this happens every year. But I believe this year to be different. USBC is finally doing something about the 2300s, 300s, and 800s being shot each year. What I am already interested in seeing, is the feedback from bowlers that go out there and what effect this has for next years tournament and years down the road. In regards to Russell's post, as I stated before, my initial plan is to play in around 15, stay firm, and playout out to 10ish breakpoint with something pretty weak. I have no intention of taking anything strong and playing 20-25 at the arrows. In years past, I would go ahead and get into 20-22 at the arrows with something around 2000 abralon and play out to 8-10. Not this year. Plan on taking low flaring stuff (.03 diff type equipment) and staying, for me, straighter up the lane. Just for sake of staying open minded, I am taking one ball that has diff of .065 but will have it polished to help it through the front part of the lane. My advice, is that if you are used to shooting 1800+ every year and this year you shoot 1600, dont say we didnt warn you if you didnt take something weaker.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: TWOHAND834 on March 05, 2012, 12:19:05 PM
For the guys that have higher rev rates, such as myself, we will need weaker stuff. When I say weaker stuff, I am more in tune to what I plan on doing and in response to others saying "There is a ton of hook in the middle. YES. You can use weaker stuff with lower diffs. It all boils down to layout and surface prep like any other ball that goes down the lane. I was not able to go last year, but ever since Baton Rouge 6 years ago, I have shot nothing less than 720 in singles taking the same 2 balls each time (Columbia Rock On and Visionary Green Gargoyle). Those same 2 balls are going with me yet again this year. I totally understand this will not work for everyone because everyone does not have a 500rpm rev rate. Unless you throw the ball 20mph, this year, people wont need high end stuff with high rev rates. If the volume is lower and the pattern is a couple feet shorter, why would you need the high end stuff? Balls such as a Gamebreaker, Game Changer, and other mid performance stuff should work just fine. Unfortunately I dont go out until May 1 so I cant give any feedback until then. But, I have mentioned that there will be some people, but not most, that will need some higher end stuff because they simply have no rev rate.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: northface28 on March 05, 2012, 12:55:05 PM
You have 500 RPMs and im sure higher ball speed, while 15-10 on the fresh with a weak ball will work for you, I do not believe it will work for a large portion of Bowlers (i.e. Average speed 15 mph and revs 300 RPMs). This method will yield 3-6-10, 3-6-9-10s, or going face every other shot or 2-10, 2-8-10s, or flagging the headpin right. You can forget 1600, Bowlers who try this will be looking at 1450+ type scores.
Stronger balls with surface will tumble and bleed energy evenly. Light polish may be needed on said stronger balls, but dont go nuts like some guys do and lean on the spinner with polish. If guys opt to start at 15, which is incredibly foolish, ALL 10 guys better be there and not spraying it.
”Who do you think you are? I am!!!!!” -Pete Weber
Post by: stopncrank on March 05, 2012, 03:01:16 PM
Well I cant speak for Baton Rouge, but I can speak for what I saw at my home center with the pattern. First and foremost, 39 ft. pattern leaves ALOT of backend for everybody.
Like others have said, the straighter players did use Defiants, solid Nexus's, Nano's and so on. The problem is if you go that route good luck having a look for games 2 and 3, and that went for fudgeknucklers, tweeners and crankers. Those covers chewed the fronts up so bad that guys who were trying to play outside had no hold either once their first transitions hit. Be prepared to make big moves if people on your pair go this route.
Like others have said, play as far right as possible as long as you can, cause the fronts and middles get ugly in a hurry. Less ball on this pattern=smaller moves which means more control of the pocket. Outside of 7 in my center was a no no, even for guys with more hand than me. Which leads me to what I said in a prior topic on here, I may be totally wrong but I dont see breaking this pattern down together as a team nowhere near the advantage it has been in recent years, and I think that might have been a silent goal of USBC this year. With so much friction down lane, and the middle so flat I dont see the advantage of breaking this pattern down.
Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time....
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Post by: Jorge300 on March 05, 2012, 04:43:17 PM
Stop,
I disagree with your statements here. I think working together as a team is even MORE important this year. As you mentioned, when the lanes transition, people have been struggling. Well imagine if you have people playing all over the right side and trying to work the transition. You need everyone playing together so that you can move in as a team and play off what you created or move in together to get away from a hang spot you created. The live stream from Thursday showed what happens when you don't play the lanes together as a team. These were some very good bowlers and neither team was plus for team event. If they had played more together, I think you would have seen better results.
Also you said outside 7 was out-of bounds. Was this trying to go straight up outside of 7 or was this people trying to swing it a little to outside of 7? I point back to my prior post and Mo Pinel's thoughts on playing the lanes this year. If there was any swing to get outside of 7 then I think this isn't a tru indication. If they were going straight then maybe Mo is incorrect in his thinking.
Jorge300
Post by: kidlost2000 on March 05, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
"1 of 1."
Post by: Russell on March 05, 2012, 04:57:26 PM
It's just funny seeing some of the replies....
How many times do you see the tour players, even the higher revrate guys, throwing super weak stuff on the shows? How many of their patterns are around 39 feet?
TWOHAND not trying to poke a hole in your argument, but using your success in singles each year as a basis for how to play the fresh is a stretch. Pretty sure the guys that strike a lot in singles aren't playing right of 10 in most cases. At that point the track has been blown up and will allow for the lane to be easily opened up.
I'm not saying you're wrong....but your ball roll is so different than everyone else here. You bowled well recently on a sport condition with a Tornado...how many bowlers can match up with a ball like that to a fresh sport pattern? Even the boomers on tour never throw stuff like that as it would blow past the break point and then on the next shot take 4 through the middle.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: stopncrank on March 05, 2012, 05:00:31 PM
Jorge, during warmups, I tried exactly what Mo had said, and actually the further right I moved past 7 the less hook I saw. Again totally different centers, and Baton Rouge most likely will be different, but just based off what I saw even if I had a team play with me to break em down I still would have had four more on my pair blowing up the track with Nano's, a Defiant and a Nexxus and all four of em were 4000 and lower with no polish. The best look I had was around 7 8 9 board, so if I did start outside of that I would have zero miss right, and if I tug im already in their burn.
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Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 05, 2012, 05:02:34 PM
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Post by: Jorge300 on March 05, 2012, 05:20:12 PM
Stop,
Thanks for the insights.
My thoughts on it were this (and this is without getting to throw on the patten as of yet): If you followed Mo's advice and went straight up the very outside (2-3 board) and could find a shot you would automatically create a little bit of tug room. As that has the heavier concentration of oil, a slight tug would act like pointing the ball slightly to the pocket. And with so little room right, you would narrow the chances of missing right as well. Again this is just theory and not sure how it would work in reality. I think straight up 6-7-8 area will probably wind up being the best shot, but I am intriqued by Mo's take as I have come to like playing out in that area over the last few years (not at the USBC Open, just in general. I am huge fan of the Cheetah pattern, lol).
Jorge300
Post by: tburky on March 05, 2012, 05:34:40 PM
Post by: mrfish on March 05, 2012, 05:59:48 PM
I have bowled on lanes set up with this shot, and tried playing up the boards. My line was straight up the 3 board with three different balls. I first used a super carbide bomb with a 2000 abralon finish. When I hit my mark, I was dead flush with good carry. When I tugged it a board, it held the pocket and when I pushed it right, I took off the 3,6,10 or worse. I also tested a solid nexxus with a 3000 abralon surface. I fared about the same as I did with the super carbide bomb, with the main difference being that the move was later as the ball got down the lane further (due to the lesser surface)before grabbing and entering the pocket. I throw a decent amount of revs and I tried to keep my speed consistently around 16.5 mph. After about 70 frames were thrown on this shot, I switched to a pin down reign of fire with a 4000 abralon surface and made a 2 and 1 move. This also resulted in a very playable line to the pocket. Instead of making a major move with the feet, this seemed to be the right move. I did throw a few shots after moving deeper with my feet about 8 boards and the results weren't very favorable. Shots that I let go of never made it back and shots that were tugged were over the top.
While I realize that the shot will not play exactly like Baton Rouge, the last three years it has played very similar and I expect this year to be the same.
Scott
Post by: mrfish on March 05, 2012, 06:01:30 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on March 05, 2012, 06:10:18 PM
Apparently people arent reading my entire posts. Thats okay though. Hope everyone has much success out there this year!
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: Russell on March 05, 2012, 09:32:21 PM
Sorry Steve...misread your point. Wasn't trying to argue with you...
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Edited by Russell on 3/5/2012 at 8:39 PM
Post by: BigBaller on March 05, 2012, 11:20:47 PM
Maybe i will bring my Storm Natural. It is a smooth rolling ball with some pop.
So now my arsenal changes...
Nexxus drilled to arc
C-system 3.5 drilled to arc
Mutant cell pin over bridge for length
And now my Natural drilled 1:30
I am a high tracker with revs and speed, more up the back like barnes but nowhere near as good.
Obviously you were not listening to your ball...
Post by: Curt_Dupre on March 06, 2012, 02:14:01 AM
Ok guys, I bowled on the showcase lanes today at the River Center. Now many people have said that the showcase lanes hook a tad bit more overall than the regular lanes. Here is my take: Going straight is a GOOD thing to do to start. As many people are saying "don't go to weaker stuff" hasn't bowled on the pattern. Strong Assymetric cores and covers, are just too strong to stay on line unless you move in and circle it. I really see low flaring balls with solid covers, being the best look. Even bowling balls that have a lot of games on them will work. Pattern reminds me of a flatter viper pattern. Even though it is 2 feet longer than viper, it feels like the same amount of friction. You really have to wait until the oil pushes down to get some hold. I really think people will be surprise just how much the bowling ball will hook. I don't bowl until March 30, 31. As soon as I do I will post a complete story about it. Definitely go bowl on the showcase lanes. It's a good warm up.
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Post by: stopncrank on March 06, 2012, 08:40:39 AM
Kinda of where I was at too before I bowled on it just based off of what Mo said. For me it was just way too speed sensitive out there, part of that is/was my 23* of tilt and axis rotation. Add to it that I didnt know what pattern it was till I got there, and only brought asymetric stuff with me,and one of them was a Aftermath at 2000 no polish. I definitely felt after it was over I would have had a much better look with a solid symmetrical ball, more so for control than anything.
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Post by: stopncrank on March 06, 2012, 08:48:52 AM
Curt this is pretty much spot on as to what I saw at my center as well. I only had strong asymmetric stuff with me, and they definitely forced me to open my angles up too much, too fast.
Which led me to what Ive been saying that people are gonna try to use way too much ball too early, especially straighter less rev rate players and they will pay for it.
The pattern at my center hooked a ton on the back, the problem is the stronger stuff will force you deep, and what I ran into was where folks were using those Nanos, Nexxus, and stuff blew a hole in the pattern around 10(only took about a game) and created 0 hold from inside for me with the RBC. Once it hit the friction around 10 it made it very hard to control the pocket. The Aftermath was way too aggressive to even try from deep, just way too much ball. Agree with Curt based on what I saw, folks are gonna see more hook than they think. Which is also why I beleive breaking them down is not gonna be an advantage, like Curt said creating hold might be the way to go.
Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time....
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Post by: themachine300 on March 06, 2012, 10:15:21 AM
We had a eliminator sweeper on this pattern sunday on AMF HPL's. That surface has more friction than those synthetics used at nationals, but here's my take. I pulled out a 500 grit pin down gamebreaker to burn up the outside in practice, and about 3-4 shots up the 6-7 board that ball was diving through the face. I was suprised how much they hooked early on. Anyways, my best look was with a 2000 grit pin up gamebreaker playing like 15 to 8 right from the start. Usually at nationals I don't get that deep until at least the start or middle 2nd game but the HPL's probably added some more hook. Shot played really well and just kept moving left from there. By the end of the 5th-6th game they were flying and I was in front of the ball return. Had 4 people per pair.
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Post by: Jorge300 on March 06, 2012, 11:24:36 AM
Let me start by saying Thank You to all of you who have posted your thoughts after bowling on the pattern. I know I speak for a lot when I say it is greatly appreciated.
To Stop - Take a look at 230's post....it looks like the teams from WI that killed them on Monday were very much working together. I think this shows that working as a group can lead to big things.
To Curt - We just got through with playing Viper in my PBAX league a few weeks ago. I had my best look on that pattern playing the lanes like Mo Pinel indicated he thought the shot would be at the Open, out at about 2-3 board. Did you try out that far in your session and if so what did you see?
Jorge300
Post by: Curt_Dupre on March 06, 2012, 12:58:40 PM
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