BallReviews
General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: themagician on June 23, 2014, 08:31:30 PM
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Ted Pritts, Anthony Lavery-Spahr, Jimmy McMartin, Xeno Garcia and Pete Thomas' team just shot 3720 in team at the Open Championships.
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"Faints"
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Hmmm... That's 744 per guy!
Signed, sealed, delivered...
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Wow...seriously that is wow.
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They must be easy this year!
*totally sarcastic*
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They must be easy this year!
*totally sarcastic*
No, they all used 4,000 grit bowling balls and USBC made an exception and re-oiled after every shot to ensure the integrity of the shot.
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Team AE in jeopardy too. Could be double Eagles for them. Gotta give Xeno props when he gets home
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Watched in person. I was in the grandstand seating to watch the Liz Johnson/Carol Norman team. These gguys were a couple of pair to the left. It was the best display of team bowling I have ever seen.
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I was watching on xbowling during the 3rd game. 3720 is a great number on any condition let alone the USBC's. Unbelievable bowling by those guys!
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They must be easy this year!
*totally sarcastic*
No, they all used 4,000 grit bowling balls and USBC made an exception and re-oiled after every shot to ensure the integrity of the shot.
Seems legit.
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Watched in person. I was in the grandstand seating to watch the Liz Johnson/Carol Norman team. These gguys were a couple of pair to the left. It was the best display of team bowling I have ever seen.
Question.. When you were watching Liz and Carol.. was Sue Jeziorski also on that team?
BL.
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Watched in person. I was in the grandstand seating to watch the Liz Johnson/Carol Norman team. These gguys were a couple of pair to the left. It was the best display of team bowling I have ever seen.
Question.. When you were watching Liz and Carol.. was Sue Jeziorski also on that team?
BL.
Maybe so. I didn't know all five but that name seems familiar.
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248 average on a team of 5... ?! :o
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3720 is a lot anywhere! Would have liked to witness this in person! You can take the 5 best bowlers you know and put them on whatever condition, for a winter league, and they might not shoot above that at anytime.
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They must be easy this year!
*totally sarcastic*
Close. They ARE "easier" this year for Team event. S/D are still reasonably challenging. The scores are bearing that out, however Team event is silly playable. Not only are the scores through the rough at the top of the house, but the same set shot in 2012 is 300+ places worse this year. It just is.
However with that being said, putting 5 people together AND having them average almost 250 for each person. The result is absolutely legit given the circumstances. It also does not mean that just because they are easier that every Joe Bowler comes in and shoots 50 pins over average per game.
Sometimes it can be both an awesome incredible legit accomplishment, and still be declared easier. Both sides can be right.
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Is there video anywhere?
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Also, we're these guys contenders going in? Are they all 230+ average bowlers? Just curious as this is quite a feat.
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As far as i know, Anthony is 240+, Xeno is 230+, Pete is a SASBA star, Pritts is i think 230-240. So yes, they are legitimate.
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Is there video anywhere?
Not of team that I have seen so far..
But it did get Cannizzaro and Smith to set up bonus coverage * 2 of the team in Minors. They split the team up; Xeno and Anthony bowled the mid-afternoon shift yesterday (6/24), while the rest bowled the 10:30pm shift that night. Times are PDT.
BL.
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Also, we're these guys contenders going in? Are they all 230+ average bowlers? Just curious as this is quite a feat.
After the "rampage" of discouraging comments made on a few facebook posts. Xeno stated they placed in the top 5 in the team event at Baton Rouge where scores were considerably lower. I don't know any of them, but from what I've heard they are all very solid players. I think they missed the team all events mark by about 100 pins or so. It's too bad so many people have negative things to say, instead of just saying WOW these guys just had an amazing day and deserve a lot of credit.
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Also, we're these guys contenders going in? Are they all 230+ average bowlers? Just curious as this is quite a feat.
After the "rampage" of discouraging comments made on a few facebook posts. Xeno stated they placed in the top 5 in the team event at Baton Rouge where scores were considerably lower. I don't know any of them, but from what I've heard they are all very solid players. I think they missed the team all events mark by about 100 pins or so. It's too bad so many people have negative things to say, instead of just saying WOW these guys just had an amazing day and deserve a lot of credit.
Nope, its much easier to complain about oil patterns, the surface of bowling balls, where extra holes are placed, the frequency of which the lanes are oiled and damn near everything else these "purists" whine about. Learn the modern game or get out of the way, if you want to suitcase the ball up second arrow, all the time, on EVERYTHING, be my guest. Let the rest of us and the game progress, stay in your time warp watching VHS tapes of how bowling used to be.
The funny thing is when you ask the guy whos doing the most complaining what he shot at Nationals, or better yet, look up their scores, its usually 1450-1500, "so easy", yet they avg 175 over 9 games.
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Amazing bowling to say the least!
Any word on their static weights to verify they maximized their reaction? :-\ :P ::)
J/K ! ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) :P :P :-X
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The funny thing is when you ask the guy whos doing the most complaining what he shot at Nationals, or better yet, look up their scores, its usually 1450-1500, "so easy", yet they avg 175 over 9 games.
I wish ballreviews had a "like" button similar to facebook, cause I would have "liked" this 1000 times. SO TRUE!
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I bet if the people that are crying shot 3720 they wouldn't feel the way they do about it.
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From what I have read/seen, these guys are 100% legit. They are all very good bowlers with long list of accomplishments. They put together the night of their lives. The shot isn't "easy". They just bowled great. I think they are in second for Team AE, missing the top by about 100 pins and about 200-300 pins off of the all-time record for Team AE.
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All this talk about the shot is nonsense. How many nights during your THS league did you see any team come close to this score? Ok, how many nights in your THS for the last 10 years have you seen any team post a score like this?
The shot was sport compliant. Its a given that to put up this score, they all had to be able to repeat shots, make the few spares they left, and adjust as needed. I was just surprised that noone picked them going in.
All the griping and complaining is coming from haters who want to do something like this, but never will.
Anyone that can bowl or understands bowling, understands what type of feat this was to pull off.
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Great bowling.
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I don't know the others, but I've bowled several tournaments that Pete Thomas has bowled in and he strikes for days! Look at some of the SASBA tournament and look what he does at PBA senior events! Just my $.02, Bruce
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With high scores like this and the number of 800 series being shot, could we start to put the conditions these scores are being shot as getting too soft much like many complain of the THS? Where are the purists on this? This just can't be these guys are just so damned good!
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Great bowling guys. Know most of those guys personally and yes the all are very talented and accomplished bowlers.
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Congrats guys on awesome bowling! They are good and this is what happens when you get great bowlers that know how to break down the shot to be able to put these numbers up. Read what the winners of Eagles have said about proper lane play and breaking the shot down. These guys have bowled this event a lot of years together and finished 5th at Baton Rogue!
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I was on the same pair with Pete Thomas for the three rounds of qualifying in the Senior Masters. The man is the real deal. I've seen few bowlers (professional or amateur) who can repeat shots with the precision he executes. His style is definitely "old school", but it shows what can be accomplished if you're able to accurately do the same thing over and over.
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They must be easy this year!
*totally sarcastic*
No, they all used 4,000 grit bowling balls and USBC made an exception and re-oiled after every shot to ensure the integrity of the shot.
I love this-- ^^^^^^^
I wonder how long it took them to bowl those three games, with the lanes being "re-oiled" after every frame, or was it shot?
People that are complaining about the scores just don't understand the game, scoring, team play, lane play, and bowling in general. These guys WORKED on their game, as a team, a bunch. They have bowled together at Nationals various times, and they mentioned how much they practiced together on this pattern leading up to the team event. They did it-- it was their night, and people that cannot (won't?) accept that simply don't understand this accomplishment.
3720 on a sport condition is AMAZING; 3720 on a THS is an AWESOME night, and to do that at Nationals is quite a feat. Personally, I'm happy for them; no matter what a person accomplishes (in this case, team)-- someone will always "hate"
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What it all comes down to is getting 5 bowlers that understand lane play, especially at the Nationals, and put the game plan together, practice, and then execute. Its no longer a secret what pattern is out there, what lane conditioners are used, and what equipment is working there (there also is plenty of video how people are attacking the lanes !). I also know some of those guys are in the pro shop biz, which helps, being technically savy in that aspect. It takes lots of discipline to execute the plan, break them down together, and move together, and watch each others reaction. Congrats to them, it is amazing and they deserve the all of the fanfare that they are receiving.
Way to go guys !
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So it means breaking down the by ten guys so that you make the shot easier. A lot like a THS right from the start?
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Wrong, you can break the lanes down to make them easier, but it not like a THS. Stop trying to diminish what these gentlemen accomplished. No matter how much you work together or break them down, you will not make a Sport compliant pattern like a THS. You can make them easier than by not working together....but it will never be as easy as a THS pattern.
So it means breaking down the by ten guys so that you make the shot easier. A lot like a THS right from the start?
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if broken down properly, those guys can make it "look" like a house shot
because they are that good, you still have to repeat shots.
they may have created some friction outside, but its still a flatter sport compliant pattern
no easy task what-so-ever.
Hats off to these guys, remarkable performance
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Jorge, not saying any of these guys are not great bowlers but the fact is that the lanes are broken down by two teams to make them easier. Why? To shoot high scores! THS are already broken down to have high scores. Purists should be just as outraged at either lane conditions. You do not shoot 3720 on a tough shot. Just like you do not shoot 900 on a tough shot.
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You may not being saying it outright, but you certainly imply it with comments like this. Again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn a Sport compliant condition into something as easy as THS. IMPOSSIBLE! No one is saying they didn't work together to make the lanes easier....but that "easier" is relative. They made they shot easier that what it would have been with people playing everywhere, they made it easier than it was to start, but they did not turn it into anything close to THS. These 5 gentlemen are great bowlers, they executed a great gameplan, and they had great execution in making their shots. End of story.
Jorge, not saying any of these guys are not great bowlers but the fact is that the lanes are broken down by two teams to make them easier. Why? To shoot high scores! THS are already broken down to have high scores. Purists should be just as outraged at either lane conditions. You do not shoot 3720 on a tough shot. Just like you do not shoot 900 on a tough shot.
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You may not being saying it outright, but you certainly imply it with comments like this. Again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn a Sport compliant condition into something as easy as THS. IMPOSSIBLE! No one is saying they didn't work together to make the lanes easier....but that "easier" is relative. They made they shot easier that what it would have been with people playing everywhere, they made it easier than it was to start, but they did not turn it into anything close to THS. These 5 gentlemen are great bowlers, they executed a great gameplan, and they had great execution in making their shots. End of story.
Jorge, not saying any of these guys are not great bowlers but the fact is that the lanes are broken down by two teams to make them easier. Why? To shoot high scores! THS are already broken down to have high scores. Purists should be just as outraged at either lane conditions. You do not shoot 3720 on a tough shot. Just like you do not shoot 900 on a tough shot.
You can trash a house shot and make it tough, especially if they are over-walled to begin with, I've seen steep wet/dry house shots that can get really ugly. Conversely, I've seen sport compliant shots with swing and hold. So its not as black and white as you make it seem.
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Every year the teams that breaks the shot down properly almost always win or in the top 5 teams or so! It's nearly impossible to prevent not unless you don't allow any practice. The pro's do it and it's ok? It's not possible to re-oil after practice, cause then it will become a year long tournament with all the extra time for re-oil. As was stated before about a house shot already being broken down with the free hook area, unless as stated gets played wrong from the being or during practice. It is what it is and next year we'll probably be having the same topic. I don't have a dog in the race and I don't understand why people have their panties in a wad! Did you lose a bet on the who'd win team at Nationals? Just my $.02, Bruce
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Now why don't these whining crybabies just put together a team of their own and prove to the rest of us how easy it is?
Come on guys, there is a ton of money to be won with prize money and brackets. Since it's so easy to do, it would be quite profitable, right?
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Now why don't these whining crybabies just put together a team of their own and prove to the rest of us how easy it is?
Come on guys, there is a ton of money to be won with prize money and brackets. Since it's so easy to do, it would be quite profitable, right?
+1
I feel the same way and I've been there and it's not that easy to get 10 guys to work together. I've seen to many times that a few will play the same, but they always go back to their comfort zone, whether it's the right/correct area or not! We're creatures of habit and they are hard habits to break! I bet the 1000's of teams that go and don't cash, tell themselves they're going to work together and break them down until they get uncomfortable and move to comfort!! Just my $.02, Bruce
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milo, quit being an nitwit. You've missed the point completely. Nobody questions these are great bowlers who did a magnificent job of breaking the lanes down and scoring at a wildly high pace. The point is what is being done is blowing up the shot to make the lanes much easier to score with the help of a companion team. There isn't one purist complaining about the shooting of such a high score because it was done on a sport compliant shot, leaving out that it had been manipulated to yield such a high score by not just the team that shot the score, but with the help of other bowlers. They can throw a hissy fit if anyone shoots such a score on a THS, saying it was all the lanes, never mind that the bowlers could be just as accomplished. They won't admit that in reality both are done on lanes that in the end are similar. It's not ok to shoot a high score on lanes that were manipulated by the lane man, but it is on lanes manipulated by two teams. When you watch such a score being shot by teams at the USBC, do you see them making constant adjustments or does it look as though once the trough has been burned in they just stay there and blast the pocket? When I've watched it looks like they just stay there. I'm not saying anything is wrong with that and they deserve all the glory that comes with shooting such great scores. My problem is not with the bowlers, it's with the purists like you who show so much hypocrisy when discussing it. You can't have it both ways and as northface28 says, house shots can be rendered very tough if you have bowlers spraying all over the place.
Again, I'm not questioning the process of breaking down the lanes, I'm questioning the purists who don't see that the lanes have been manipulated to become easier, not just by the great bowlers who shoot the scores but with help from another team. If you put some league hacks on the pair with these guys, do you think 3720 gets shot? So from a purist's viewpoint are these guys just great bowlers or did manipulated lanes help them dramatically. No, I could never shoot the scores these guys did, but probably would have shot better than my average!
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milo, quit being an nitwit. You've missed the point completely. Nobody questions these are great bowlers who did a magnificent job of breaking the lanes down and scoring at a wildly high pace. The point is what is being done is blowing up the shot to make the lanes much easier to score with the help of a companion team. There isn't one purist complaining about the shooting of such a high score because it was done on a sport compliant shot, leaving out that it had been manipulated to yield such a high score by not just the team that shot the score, but with the help of other bowlers. They can throw a hissy fit if anyone shoots such a score on a THS, saying it was all the lanes, never mind that the bowlers could be just as accomplished. They won't admit that in reality both are done on lanes that in the end are similar. It's not ok to shoot a high score on lanes that were manipulated by the lane man, but it is on lanes manipulated by two teams. When you watch such a score being shot by teams at the USBC, do you see them making constant adjustments or does it look as though once the trough has been burned in they just stay there and blast the pocket? When I've watched it looks like they just stay there. I'm not saying anything is wrong with that and they deserve all the glory that comes with shooting such great scores. My problem is not with the bowlers, it's with the purists like you who show so much hypocrisy when discussing it. You can't have it both ways and as northface28 says, house shots can be rendered very tough if you have bowlers spraying all over the place.
Again, I'm not questioning the process of breaking down the lanes, I'm questioning the purists who don't see that the lanes have been manipulated to become easier, not just by the great bowlers who shoot the scores but with help from another team. If you put some league hacks on the pair with these guys, do you think 3720 gets shot? So from a purist's viewpoint are these guys just great bowlers or did manipulated lanes help them dramatically. No, I could never shoot the scores these guys did, but probably would have shot better than my average!
No I got the point exactly.
"The point is what is being done is blowing up the shot to make the lanes much easier to score with the help of a companion team."
"My problem is not with the bowlers, it's with the purists like you who show so much hypocrisy when discussing it. "
Purists like me? Really? I've been called a lot of things, but never before have I been referred to as a bowling "Purists". Thanks for the laugh.
Looks like YOU missed my point entirely. Maybe, just MAYBE, I wasn't talking about you.
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Another person that can't average 200 but knows how the game is played at elite levels.
Of course they are making constant adjustments. Do you really think they broke the lanes down in practice and then stood in the same place for 3 games?
Just congratulate them on a great day and move on.
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Let me clarify my "point" just so some here understand that it has not been missed. I've read the rules and nowhere in the USBC tournament rules does it mention that you can't improve the shot with teamwork.
Congratulations to these guys. They practiced, worked together as a team and created an unbelievable scoring condition they could exploit to their advantage. I was there and saw it in person. I was cheering and rooting for them to break the record.
Then again, I guess that's what us "purists" do.
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Let me clarify my "point" just so some here understand that it has not been missed. I've read the rules and nowhere in the USBC tournament rules does it mention that you can't improve the shot with teamwork.
Congratulations to these guys. They practiced, worked together as a team and created an unbelievable scoring condition they could exploit to their advantage. I was there and saw it in person. I was cheering and rooting for them to break the record.
Then again, I guess that's what us "purists" do.
I wish I could post this comment everywhere. Someone supporting good things instead of trying to be a crab in the bucket and pull everyone down with B.S. about stupid crap.
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Just curious, as I do not feel like scanning thru the previous pages but, has it been mentioned that the companion team only shot like 3170...if they were so 'walled' why didn't they shoot a ton as well...not as good?
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Let me clarify my "point" just so some here understand that it has not been missed. I've read the rules and nowhere in the USBC tournament rules does it mention that you can't improve the shot with teamwork.
Congratulations to these guys. They practiced, worked together as a team and created an unbelievable scoring condition they could exploit to their advantage. I was there and saw it in person. I was cheering and rooting for them to break the record.
Then again, I guess that's what us "purists" do.
I wish I could post this comment everywhere. Someone supporting good things instead of trying to be a crab in the bucket and pull everyone down with B.S. about stupid crap.
+1
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+1
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rico, I didn't say the shot was walled up. I said the team, with the help of a companion team broke down the shot and put up a great score. We have all seen this happen before. Both teams never seem to tear it up at the same pace. My point that many of these cro magnons don't seem to get is, and there is nothing is wrong with it, but they break the lanes down to make them more scoreable. I just wonder what the difference is between this and shooting a high score on a THS is where the lane man does the same thing. How is making the lanes easier different from bowling on lanes that are already easier?
itsallaboutme, have you watched when these scores are being shot? Once the shot is burned in they sure don't look like they are constantly making adjustments. To an imbecile like you, I guess when scores like these are being shot, you still think 900s and huge team scores happen on tough shots. That's just not true or the purists wouldn't always get upset when it happened.
So milo, you numbnuts, who said what this team did was wrong or illegal? It was great bowling. It's just that a moron like you can't figure out the lanes were manipulated to yield a high score and how is that different than bowling on a THS that was manipulated by the lane man? Take your fat butt and and bowl on the same shot without help and see how you shoot. That was my point doomas, put a bunch of league hacks on that same pair and do you get the same result?
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When they make lanes and a conditioner that won't break down for 10 guys to bowl 30 games on a pair then none of this will be argued. Until then they will be making constant adjustments even if your untrained eye can't notice them.
I never said the lanes were easy or hard. The lanes are not easy to start and good bowlers that play together can make the condition easier for themselves as they bowl.
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I just wonder what the difference is between this and shooting a high score on a THS is where the lane man does the same thing. How is making the lanes easier different from bowling on lanes that are already easier?
Volume.
On a THS there is a significant amount of volume (on most THS') in the middle and the outsides are dry. What good bowlers do is create that dry on the outside (by working together) and use that hook spot but that DOES NOT mean there is the volume in the middle and the pattern is (left-to-right) NOT FLAT.
Don't be under the illusion that middle has the same volume and transition that the middle of a THS would have. A THS middle would, IMO most cases, hold up a lot better through the block.
I'm not 100% sure that hits the crux of your question but that is my take.
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Not the bowlers fault that the balls plow a hole through the super high volumes of oil that are necessary because of the high friction balls. I don't know any of these guys except for Pete, who is a heck of a player. My guess is they all play relatively straight like Pete. If you are a relatively straight player there is a great shot right up 8-10 board in team without doing anything systematic to open them up, other than not moving off the shot and blowing them up inside as most of the young guys do. I shot 695 in team with a 195 my last game. Only problem I had was everyone else on my team was inside me all night, and my last game the adjustment got tricky.
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Nobody plays as straight as Pete...the guys got on it pretty good...Pete just stayed right of them