BallReviews
General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: toneoak1 on February 03, 2014, 11:04:37 PM
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I'm a left handed bowler who averages right around 230 on THS. I've also had great success in local tournaments over the last few years. Due to having 2 sets of twins 6 and 3 years ago respectively, Nationals has not been an option for me. I've always wanted to bowl at the stadium and I got permission to go this year. I watch guys online and have a vague game plan going in, in regards to what part of the lane I want to try to play. Here's my conundrum. I have a decent arsenal of equipment for a house shot. Most of my balls are drilled pin up, right above the bridge cg in the palm. I have more revs than most lefties i know so that layout gets the ball down the lane and makes a strong move in the back end. I'm afraid that reaction will be hard to control on the NATS patterns. I've considered getting a couple matte finished balls and drilling them pin down for more control and area. I just don't have the OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP experience to know what to expect. Please help especially if left handed.
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Make sure you've got a ball or 2 with surface and prolly at least one with a hole down also. Realize you'll have less free hook as you down on THS so try & practice cleaner angles.
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I'm not sure what balls are in your current arsenal. Having that information will help a bit because you may be able to get away with simply changing the surface on some of those balls as opposed to going out and buying new stuff. Still, most bowlers don't go with too much surface. Matte-finished balls at 1000-2000 are usually about as gritty as most good bowlers go because they don't want to blow a hole in the heads. The idea for most of the better teams and bowlers is to stay straight and in one area early to try to create some hook out and some hold in. When done properly, the shot can actually play pretty easy. When not done properly, the shot can be almost impossible because you'll have alternating spots of hook and wiggle. Again though, being a lefty, your situation could be very, very different. I guess my best advice would be to try to bowl on any Sport patterns you can find between now and then. Also, as JustRico said, because there isn't usually much in the way of free recovery at Nationals, it wouldn't be a bad idea to practice going more with the wood. I know that's something that I need to practice every year before going because my house shot is the typical stand left, throw right. Lastly, spares, spares, spares. You're likely to be shooting a lot more spares per game than you're used to, and they're likely to be multi-pin combos as opposed to nothing but single pins. I recommend going straight as much as possible. You'll also probably notice that the ball gets down the lane (even on spares) much quicker than you're used to. As such, be wary of spares like the 2-4 and 2-4-7 because it's really easy to give away the 2-pin with the slicker conditioner they use. Other than that, have fun, and try not to get caught up in the atmosphere. At the end of the day, it's still just bowling!
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I'm not sure what balls are in your current arsenal. Having that information will help a bit because you may be able to get away with simply changing the surface on some of those balls as opposed to going out and buying new stuff. Still, most bowlers don't go with too much surface. Matte-finished balls at 1000-2000 are usually about as gritty as most good bowlers go because they don't want to blow a hole in the heads. The idea for most of the better teams and bowlers is to stay straight and in one area early to try to create some hook out and some hold in. When done properly, the shot can actually play pretty easy. When not done properly, the shot can be almost impossible because you'll have alternating spots of hook and wiggle. Again though, being a lefty, your situation could be very, very different. I guess my best advice would be to try to bowl on any Sport patterns you can find between now and then. Also, as JustRico said, because there isn't usually much in the way of free recovery at Nationals, it wouldn't be a bad idea to practice going more with the wood. I know that's something that I need to practice every year before going because my house shot is the typical stand left, throw right. Lastly, spares, spares, spares. You're likely to be shooting a lot more spares per game than you're used to, and they're likely to be multi-pin combos as opposed to nothing but single pins. I recommend going straight as much as possible. You'll also probably notice that the ball gets down the lane (even on spares) much quicker than you're used to. As such, be wary of spares like the 2-4 and 2-4-7 because it's really easy to give away the 2-pin with the slicker conditioner they use. Other than that, have fun, and try not to get caught up in the atmosphere. At the end of the day, it's still just bowling!
Here's my current Arsenal (strong to weak)
Storm Modern Marvel (pin up)
Ebonite Pursuit S (pin up)
Storm Victory Road Pearl (pin up)
DV8 Reckless (pin down and out)
Hammer Blue Vibe (pin down and out) oldy but goodie
Hammer Cherry Vibe (pin down and out) still kills THS
Storm Reign (pin down and out)
With the exception of the DV8 ball and the blue vibe, most of these balls focus on backend moves. I just don't think that is going to be the answer.
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Modern Marvel is my benchmark ball. I keep it at a fresh 2000 surface, and it does very well as the first ball out of the bag for me. I really liked the look I had when I eventually went to it out there last year; however, if you think it will be too flippy, that Blue Vibe could be just what the doctor ordered as a starting point. That's one of the smoothest, most-predictable balls Hammer had for a long while there. I know some of the others, but not all of them since I have mainly thrown Storm/Roto for a while. To give you something to compare to, if they're supposed to play anything like last year, here's what I would plan to bring:
Endless Nightmare (1000 plus polish)
Lucid (2000 matte)
Modern Marvel (2000 matte)
Frantic (1500 polished)
IQ Tour Pearl (lightly scuffed 2000)
Spare ball
I don't go until late April, so I have some time to adjust as needed.
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I found that for me....righty, 350 revs, 16-17 mph, 26 tilt and 45 rotation, that mid level solids with 2000/3000 work best. I have done well out there with my trusty old Nomad Solid at 3000 drilled pin under with 4 inch pin to pap...that ball has brought me a 250+ game each year Ive gone (3 yrs).
I'm planning on taking Disturbed( pin down), Nomad(pin down), Asylum(pin up) and Lights Out(pin down) unless they put out something with volume than I may change it up....but even rolling balls and layouts for me have done better out there for me
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Ask your center if they can put down a similar shot for you and others to practice? We used to have our house put the US Open pattern down and different sport shot patterns down just to get a feel. Whats good is you can usually get a lot of people to come on a saturday or sunday morning to see how the lane transititions.
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Spares are every thing. If you hook into spares this will be a bad experience. If you throw plastic straight at spares then continue to focus on doing that. To get a feel for the condition use a plastic ball for strikes or a pancake weight block urethane ball. It will help with the kind of area you will have to play on at nationals.
Spares are money.
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As I stated, you will see less free hook on the Natls lane than you will anywhere else...you need the ball to read sooner and less playing the back part of the lane as you do on a THS...you do this and you will be shooting a lot 3-7-9's. You need balls that will react or respond more in the 35-45" range instead of waiting for it to go right around 40-45' range...5' is a big difference
Weight holes down help facilitate this
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As a lefty that sounds like I have similar basic stats and has bowled Natl's for the past 7 seven years and 9 total here is my take. Early on I took to much equipment, just bc I own it. Now I try to cut it to 4 (and a plastic) being a pin up and pin down both solids and pearls. With 2 patterns last year, I used all 4. My belief as a lefty is to be as straight as you can through the front with control on the back
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Wait until the pattern is released before you buy a ball. In Baton Rouge, there was a good bit of friction. The years prior to Baton Rouge, in Reno and Vegas, there was very little unless your team created it.
Last year, the Doubles/Singles pattern had a much different look than the Team pattern. So save your money until you have some idea of what you will be facing.
One thing you can count on though, your big hooking ball up the 10 board ain't gonna lead you to the promised land.
I agree with Kidlost, spares are key.
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I found that for me....righty, 350 revs, 16-17 mph, 26 tilt and 45 rotation, that mid level solids with 2000/3000 work best. I have done well out there with my trusty old Nomad Solid at 3000 drilled pin under with 4 inch pin to pap...that ball has brought me a 250+ game each year Ive gone (3 yrs).
I'm planning on taking Disturbed( pin down), Nomad(pin down), Asylum(pin up) and Lights Out(pin down) unless they put out something with volume than I may change it up....but even rolling balls and layouts for me have done better out there for me
O.k. I'm seeing 3 out of your 4 balls being drilled pin down. Do you find it easier to control the pocket that way, or do you typically do o.k. finding the pocket but get increased carry with pin down equipment? Or, a little of both?
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I think it depends on how you roll the ball. I tend to get into an early roll anyway, so I need pin up stuff. Pin down is hooking the second I set it down for me. general advice here is great (I think), but you have to know your game too and how the general rules of thumb apply to you.
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I found that for me....righty, 350 revs, 16-17 mph, 26 tilt and 45 rotation, that mid level solids with 2000/3000 work best. I have done well out there with my trusty old Nomad Solid at 3000 drilled pin under with 4 inch pin to pap...that ball has brought me a 250+ game each year Ive gone (3 yrs).
I'm planning on taking Disturbed( pin down), Nomad(pin down), Asylum(pin up) and Lights Out(pin down) unless they put out something with volume than I may change it up....but even rolling balls and layouts for me have done better out there for me
O.k. I'm seeing 3 out of your 4 balls being drilled pin down. Do you find it easier to control the pocket that way, or do you typically do o.k. finding the pocket but get increased carry with pin down equipment? Or, a little of both?
Im higher tilt, so I need earlier reading, smoother transition or things get very jumpy on me. Regardless of your style, you need more even reacting balls at USBC.....
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Since it's your first Nationals, you're going to be excited. I think you will be fine if you can channel that excitement into concentration. Nobody's written it yet, so i will...lefties have an edge at the Stadium, I think you'll be fine.
I would just take 4 balls, and get a chance to book a practice session. Your 230 house shot average shows you have skills, just keep your goals modest, like shooting 1800 and enjoy the experience.
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lefty here as well
find somewhere that you can practice on this pattern
solid fundamentals will help you hit your target
practice spares, all spares- throw straight at them unless double wood.
(this is the key to higher scores)
for me (little higher rev rate) i have had a better look with symmetric pieces
more rolly balls
arson low flare (1 pin up, 1 pin down)
ebonite gamechanger
columbia disruption
if you are by yourself on the lft side, its tough to break the pattern down like the rightys do, i try to use something a little more dull in practice and to start the game to give me some downlane friction, like up 10ish (10 -8, 11-9) and then bump in slightly in the heads while using the downlane friction i created.
i used a 2000 dull 300t in baton rouge with some success, that was up 5, but it plays very flat out there and you must be on target to keep it in play
whatever balls you pick, you want to have a predictable, rolly look off the pattern
good luck
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Since it's your first Nationals, you're going to be excited. I think you will be fine if you can channel that excitement into concentration. Nobody's written it yet, so i will...lefties have an edge at the Stadium, I think you'll be fine.
I would just take 4 balls, and get a chance to book a practice session. Your 230 house shot average shows you have skills, just keep your goals modest, like shooting 1800 and enjoy the experience.
I have read a couple things (and seen them on USBC Open telecasts) that state the Stadium is lefty friendly. I will be the first one to admit our house shot is disgustingly wide open. I've got some friends that go to the open championships year after year and I've seen what happens to them. Guys averaging 225 in league shooting 1500. I'm simply looking to avoid that. I typically score better when I can go straighter. (essence of a left hander) I have also looked into bowling the BJC while there because I've heard the entry fee is cheap and it is now contested on the singles/doubles pattern. There is no info online about it yet. I thought about that just for the practice time on that shot. What has your experience been in regards to the side tourneys?
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I bowled the Nationals for the first time in Baton Rouge.
What I noticed was that the shot was flat- no wall on the outside, and that the backends were squeaky clean. Last, the volume played like medium to medium light. You must keep your ball speed and release consistent.
Control pieces that allow you to keep your angles down are a must. You may find that the hookmonstters that all roll the same on the THS are hard to control on the pattern. They will magnify any mistakes in your release or when you miss your target much more than on a house shot.
Straighter is greater. I could not count the number of spares I saw people missing trying to hook at them.
Use plastic and throw straight at your spares.
I had just dropped down from 16 to 14 and had stopped using my brace. I was much to inconsistent to score decently. I still broke even in the handicap brackets but missed out on making a ton, had I been prepared and knew what to expect.
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Look up Matt McNiel bowling on youtube. That is how you play the lanes on the left at nationals.
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Imo, with most non ths, you have to learn to control the front to back, not the side to side. If you like to play straighter, don't only bring stuff that goes sideways off the end of the pattern.
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[quote
I have bowled the BTM a few times, and always bowl the 40 Frame Game. The 40 FG we bowl the day after we finish up the USBC, just to have some fun & you can make some cash on site. The BTM helps you focus a bit because the shot isn't easy and it gives you some preparation- I'm not sure if they are having it this year, the magazine is in transition and stopped publishing.
My comment about the lefties isn't meant to offend anyone, its just what I see. 2 of the guys in my group are lefty, & they do fairly well, and marvel at how much the righties have to adjust.
[/quote]Since it's your first Nationals, you're going to be excited. I think you will be fine if you can channel that excitement into concentration. Nobody's written it yet, so i will...lefties have an edge at the Stadium, I think you'll be fine.
I would just take 4 balls, and get a chance to book a practice session. Your 230 house shot average shows you have skills, just keep your goals modest, like shooting 1800 and enjoy the experience.
I have read a couple things (and seen them on USBC Open telecasts) that state the Stadium is lefty friendly. I will be the first one to admit our house shot is disgustingly wide open. I've got some friends that go to the open championships year after year and I've seen what happens to them. Guys averaging 225 in league shooting 1500. I'm simply looking to avoid that. I typically score better when I can go straighter. (essence of a left hander) I have also looked into bowling the BJC while there because I've heard the entry fee is cheap and it is now contested on the singles/doubles pattern. There is no info online about it yet. I thought about that just for the practice time on that shot. What has your experience been in regards to the side tourneys?
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Look up Matt McNiel bowling on youtube. That is how you play the lanes on the left at nationals.
I have watched a lot on Matty McHonorScore. I have not seen anything on what type of ball he is rolling and how it is drilled. I know he WAS Global 900 which I'm not too familiar with but I'm sure I could match that up to something I am familiar with to get an Idea. I am comfortable playing that part of the lane which is a plus. Not saying our ability or consistency is comparable. I have noticed that because of the line he is playing and the matching of equipment to condition, he does seem to have a little room at the break-point and remains able to strike. It would be nice to get more detailed information on what he has in hand in order to ATTEMPT to duplicate what he does.
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you dont need to know what equipment he uses, watch the ball motion.
its predictable and arcing.
just because he uses "X" ball doesn't mean any of us could use it or something similar
take advantage of a lesson there before you bowl, it will help
but being prepared starts before you get there
I am around many people that bowl nats and a few eagle winners, they practice, practice, practice.
almost all of them throw straight at spares and they throw every spare in practice as well
they will find multiple places that put the pattern down and make a point to get as much time as possible in on that pattern
its not that the pattern will be even close to wha you see at teh stadium, but it will teach you to not cross many boards and to maybe figure out what 5 or 6 balls to take.
200 is a good score on these patterns and that happens by keeping the ball in play, making your spares and repeating shots
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I agree to find a center that puts down the pattern and practice on it. The pattern at the tournament won't play the same, but it will highlight what works and what does not work. This will also allow you to practice throwing straight at spares if you don't do that already.
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This will be my 5th year going I think. We go more for fun and the challenge. We don't try to break down the lane or anything.
Last year for me the shot only changed towards the end of team and it was a one board adjustment. Singles / doubles was harder with the oil pattern being shorter ( I struggle on short patterns).
I've never taken anything very strong or anything that flips hard on the back end. Surface wise, more in the middle works ok for me. 2000 or so…..Typically I play in between 5-10. Last year…hit 8 would strike, 7 washout and 9 a split. One board area is pretty fun. You see some really weird leaves out there.
The thing I have a hard time with is the lights of the scoreboards reflecting off the lanes. We got stuck on the pairs adjacent to the walkway, maybe it is just those.
Not sure what pattern you typically bowl on, but a ths is nothing like Nats. Inside hooks a lot, outside won't come back. Some guys can kill it though.
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This will be my 5th year going I think. We go more for fun and the challenge. We don't try to break down the lane or anything.
Last year for me the shot only changed towards the end of team and it was a one board adjustment. Singles / doubles was harder with the oil pattern being shorter ( I struggle on short patterns).
I've never taken anything very strong or anything that flips hard on the back end. Surface wise, more in the middle works ok for me. 2000 or so…..Typically I play in between 5-10. Last year…hit 8 would strike, 7 washout and 9 a split. One board area is pretty fun. You see some really weird leaves out there.
The thing I have a hard time with is the lights of the scoreboards reflecting off the lanes. We got stuck on the pairs adjacent to the walkway, maybe it is just those.
Not sure what pattern you typically bowl on, but a ths is nothing like Nats. Inside hooks a lot, outside won't come back. Some guys can kill it though.
That's what I've been seeing. Some guys score big year after year after year. I know they are the elite among amateur bowlers but bowling is not rocket science. There is obviously something that they do differently than everyone else. i watch the archives on youtube and all of the scorers seem to play the lanes the same way, (straight and smooth). There is so much going on that you cannot see on camera. What balls they are using, surfaces, drill patterns, in order to get a desired reactions. Tournament and league conditions require such different equipment. I'm a firm believer that you can't out-bowl a bad ball reaction. That's what I'm trying to gain insight on. I'm simply trying to pick the brains of people who have experience to develop an idea of how to prepare. I don't think there is any substitute for experience; I'm just trying to gain a slight edge if I can.
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You're giving way too much credit to the bowling balls they are using and not nearly enough credit to how talented they are.
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This will be my 5th year going I think. We go more for fun and the challenge. We don't try to break down the lane or anything.
Last year for me the shot only changed towards the end of team and it was a one board adjustment. Singles / doubles was harder with the oil pattern being shorter ( I struggle on short patterns).
I've never taken anything very strong or anything that flips hard on the back end. Surface wise, more in the middle works ok for me. 2000 or so…..Typically I play in between 5-10. Last year…hit 8 would strike, 7 washout and 9 a split. One board area is pretty fun. You see some really weird leaves out there.
The thing I have a hard time with is the lights of the scoreboards reflecting off the lanes. We got stuck on the pairs adjacent to the walkway, maybe it is just those.
Not sure what pattern you typically bowl on, but a ths is nothing like Nats. Inside hooks a lot, outside won't come back. Some guys can kill it though.
That's what I've been seeing. Some guys score big year after year after year. I know they are the elite among amateur bowlers but bowling is not rocket science. There is obviously something that they do differently than everyone else. i watch the archives on youtube and all of the scorers seem to play the lanes the same way, (straight and smooth). There is so much going on that you cannot see on camera. What balls they are using, surfaces, drill patterns, in order to get a desired reactions. Tournament and league conditions require such different equipment. I'm a firm believer that you can't out-bowl a bad ball reaction. That's what I'm trying to gain insight on. I'm simply trying to pick the brains of people who have experience to develop an idea of how to prepare. I don't think there is any substitute for experience; I'm just trying to gain a slight edge if I can.
the past few years I have bought a ball while there. Asking what is working and usually go with their recommendtion. Usually just something mid priced and go with my normal layouts, then take the surface to about 2000. I am pretty accurate, but not one board!
Any mid level symmetrical ball with 2000 or so surface with whatever layout you like is probably fine for one of the balls.
The lanes for me tend to be slick and the back ends really flip, so it doesn't take much.
I'm happy if I can get over 500 in each event and one game over 200. It's quite an experience for sure.
So far I bought a Meanstreak Beatdown and had it drilled to roll earlier for one ball. 'I will take my old Red Hammer urethane. Then see what the pattern is when they release it to decide on a third. That may change though....
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You're giving way too much credit to the bowling balls they are using and not nearly enough credit to how talented they are.
I think you've got me all wrong. I'm not taking anything away from these guys ability. I understand and appreciate their abilities. The guys that go to this tournament and take a serious run at an eagle year after year are obviously great shot makers and unbelievable bowlers. That goes without saying. I am more in awe of their knowledge base of this tournament and the conditions within which they are bowling. They separate themselves from the field consistently not solely because they are that much better physically than everyone else (which many of them are) but because they manage the lane pattern, their own emotions, the environment and all things of the such better than everyone else as well. Bowlers who score high know how to maximize margin of error. Judging from how most of the local bowlers in my area do at nationals, we are all doing something wrong. I know i can't ask these questions to guys who consistently shoot 1550 and get good information on what to do. That's why I'm asking these questions here.
I know shooting for an eagle is not a reasonable expectation for a league bowler like me. With the overall expense for someone like me (a teacher with bills to pay) to travel to this tourney, I'm just hoping to learn something I don't already know that might give me a few more pins a game when I get there.
I've gotten lots of great advice on things to practice, which is fantastic, I just want to collect tips on all I can.
I'm not downplaying these guy's physical talents in the slightest.
Sorry if it came across that way.
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OK, but what you are not understanding is that using the same ball and layout as Matt McNeil probably isn't going to work for you. It doesn't matter what he's using. The most important part is playing the lanes properly. What high level bowlers don't get enough credit for is their ability to read and understand how to play the lanes, then manipulating the ball to be able to play the correct zone on the lane.
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your missing the key points here.
The advice pointed out is solid as there are no shortcuts to scoring
the only way you can even possibly think about posting any scores is to get out on the lanes and put in the work.
Being LH and wanting to get better, i did watch some of the vids of Matt, but very few cant repeat shots like that wit hte same motion, ball speed, rotation, etc
so what specific ball he uses is not relevant
i would be curious for you to come back on here after you go to Reno and tell us what you did to prepare and what your results are.
what you learned and what you will do different next time
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your missing the key points here.
The advice pointed out is solid as there are no shortcuts to scoring
the only way you can even possibly think about posting any scores is to get out on the lanes and put in the work.
Being LH and wanting to get better, i did watch some of the vids of Matt, but very few cant repeat shots like that wit hte same motion, ball speed, rotation, etc
so what specific ball he uses is not relevant
i would be curious for you to come back on here after you go to Reno and tell us what you did to prepare and what your results are.
what you learned and what you will do different next time
And that was the main point of my original post was to learn HOW to prepare. (I have found a local center that will put down the 2013 pattern but the days and times will be very intermittent) that will be somewhat helpful assuming it plays relatively close. Maybe asking the question what balls and layouts are these guys throwing would better be worded this way; WHY are these guys throwing what they are throwing? What are they trying to accomplish in terms of controlling the lane? A few have mentioned controlling mid-lane, smooth breakpoints, avoid flippy reactions, being very careful on how you break down the lanes, etc. And that's kind of what I'm looking for. I know I can't physically become as good as the guys on the featured pairs in the short amount of time between when I found out I can do this tourney and when we leave. Because of my unique family life, I don't know when it will be in the cards to go to this tourney again. However, there are certain things I can toy with between now and then that just may boost me from 1550 to 1650.
I'm not arguing with you btw... Just trying to better explain my request for help. The equipment is just kind of where the topic went.
You ended your quote with a very interesting line. "What you learned and what you will do different next time"
This may be my "next time" because I truly don't know when I will get to go again. It's only by an alignment of stars I get to go this time. I'm hoping to gain insight from others experiences on what worked well or what was a total disaster in hopes of being able to recognize if something is going o.k. or if it is about to become a nightmare. I'm not banking on these tips guaranteeing me a certain number. I just want to avoid a nightmare.