win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: All I am going to say is...  (Read 23798 times)

24899

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
All I am going to say is...
« on: June 03, 2013, 08:31:03 PM »
Don't be the guy who wrecks the shim... AT PRACTICE.

/end rant.
24899

 

TDC57

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2013, 02:13:05 PM »
spermgiver,

You missed the whole point completely. Team B throwing plastic balls? Quit being thick headed! Team B is not competing for an eagle when they are there to mainly help carve a pattern for team A who takes their shot at an eagle. In return team B will share in any prize money that team A wins. Sound like competing? As I said before that's like one NFL team asking the another to lay down to help them make the playoffs. That was the point! Everyone knows that only the top bowlers or staff guys or former pros are going to win. That's not the discussion. And, storm making it rain, nice try but carving the pattern and making it tougher just doesn't happen that often. This entire thread was about someone whining about one person fu**ing the shim up in practice. For god sakes that's almost impossible. Sounds more like an sniveler just pissed a guy decided the plan wasn't for him and his money spent on such a trip was his money to bowl for. Completely his right!

It still comes down to trying to make the Nationals shot a walled shot to score easier on and that's no damn different than a THS. Try as hard as you elitists might to say it is, it's not. That is what you're trying to do.

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2013, 04:56:18 PM »
I am going to touch on a couple of points here:
 
First, you have to release the pattern. If not, only a select few will know it as it will leak out. By releasing it, it makes it fair for all since everyone can see it. This is a must, and as I read in Riggs blog they are going to try and do it even sooner in the future hopefully.
 
Second, Bowling 300 900, what makes me a "hack"? The fact that I am an above average THS bowler with over 25 300 games and 14 800 series, or the fact that I can bowl well on a Sports Pattern, losing only to a National Team Member and Storm Staffer in my league? Or is it the fact that I called you out for being the selfish POS that you really are? You act like only you paid money to go to Nationals and bowl. Your teammates paid the same money you did, maybe more if they aren't from the same area as you. They have the right to try and bowl good too, without someone making a difficult shot even harder by playing a different line then them. In my last post I showed how someone can make a small sacrifice and play along with their teammates and make out better in the end than they would by going it alone, but apparently math is too hard for you to understand. Feel free to continue to be a selfish POS, and when no one wants you to bowl Nationals with them anymore, you can look back at this thread and know why.
 
Third, TDC57,  when you bowl do you purposely try to make the lanes harder??? What teams are doing is trying put up the best possible score they can, which the last time I checked was the object of bowling. In these cases they are using a game plan to help them accomplish this instead of relying on pure luck. It takes skill to understand the oil pattern well enough to know where to play to make this work. Even the best teams, at times, have errors in game planning. If you read Riggs' blogs there were years where his team (all great bowlers mind you) have made mistakes in where they broke down the lanes, making the shot more difficult rather than easier. They felt that was the case this year as they made the shot too wet/dry and hindered their chances at posting the best score possible. I'll ask you the same thing I asked Bowling 300 900, what makes the guy who moved in and caused the issue money better then the other teammates money? They paid their money too, in the hopes that everyone would stick to the plan and give the TEAM the best chance to score well. It's their right to be upset at the guy who may have cost them money by not doing what they agreed to.
 
Lastly, If you are bowling on a sports pattern, there isn't going to be 10 different ways to get to the pocket, like there might be on a THS pattern. There will 1,2 and maybe 3 if you are lucky. Everyone will be playing in the same area....this will change the pattern. Again you can do so randomly, or you can do so in a controled manner. Every shot thrown down the lane changes the pattern, whether it is a "soaker" resin ball or a plastic ball. That is just physics. So everyone "carves" the lane. It happened in the 1950's, and it happens today. It just happens much faster with today's modern balls. So why is frowned upon by some that teams work together to try to control how the lanes breakdown? Is it because you can't do it? There will only be a handful of teams that realistically have a chance at the Eagle. But there are years, like last year, where we see a team expand that list, bowl a great set with a great plan and win. Maybe next year it's one of our teams (and in our I mean the people commenting here in this thread) that add our names to the list. But I promise it won't happen if you have people not following a plan.
 
With all that being said, the new Ice oil may change team's thinking and game plans. As Twohand mentioned, Riggs team thought that maybe having people with more diverse rev rates would have helped smooth out the wet/dry transition. It may be that the game plans turn into having people playing a variety of lines within a certain area, and having everyone move in and/or ball down together. Only time will tell as we see what seems to work and what doesn't.
Jorge300

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2013, 08:44:05 AM »
spermgiver,

You missed the whole point completely. Team B throwing plastic balls? Quit being thick headed! Team B is not competing for an eagle when they are there to mainly help carve a pattern for team A who takes their shot at an eagle. In return team B will share in any prize money that team A wins. Sound like competing? As I said before that's like one NFL team asking the another to lay down to help them make the playoffs. That was the point! Everyone knows that only the top bowlers or staff guys or former pros are going to win. That's not the discussion. And, storm making it rain, nice try but carving the pattern and making it tougher just doesn't happen that often. This entire thread was about someone whining about one person fu**ing the shim up in practice. For god sakes that's almost impossible. Sounds more like an sniveler just pissed a guy decided the plan wasn't for him and his money spent on such a trip was his money to bowl for. Completely his right!

It still comes down to trying to make the Nationals shot a walled shot to score easier on and that's no damn different than a THS. Try as hard as you elitists might to say it is, it's not. That is what you're trying to do.

No, I do understand.  My comment was intended to show how stupid it is for people to somehow say having Team B help Team A is a bad thing.  If the bowlers for Team B have issues with helping Team A win, then they shouldn't bowl.  But if I was on a set of two teams who were working together to develop the shot to become high scoring, then I'll sign up.  Honestly, this entire discussion is whiny.

Bowling 300 900

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2013, 09:45:38 AM »
Jorge you bowl pretty well on the internet.  Nice job listing your accomplishments.

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2013, 10:21:07 AM »
Bowling 300 900,
     I bowl well pretty much everywhere, and I'm not a selfish POS, so that's two things I got over you. Shall we continue?!?
Jorge300

Bowling 300 900

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2013, 12:50:40 PM »
You are the poster boy for FIGJAM.   Should I continue?

I'm not going to continue this FIGJAM contest with you.   Good day. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 12:57:00 PM by Bowling 300 900 »

bradl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2013, 12:59:47 PM »
Bowling 300 900,
     I bowl well pretty much everywhere, and I'm not a selfish POS, so that's two things I got over you. Shall we continue?!?

Not to jump into the argument, but I think all would be made clear if it is okay to share the USBC membership number. If anything, all of the credentials would be up on the bowl.com site, and I don't think any personal info outside of the bowler's name is available. As two sayings go,

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Facts are pesky little things.

If the stats stand, they will be posted there, and someone will look like a major fool for doubting them.

BL.

Bowling 300 900

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2013, 01:15:13 PM »
Stats don't mean anything.  We don't get paid on stats in this sport.  You can average 250 and that doesn't mean anything.   His resume means diddly squat, as my own bowling resume means diddly squat. 

He can spout off all the numbers he wants, that doesn't legitimize his point of view nor does bowling league statistics legitimize my own point of view.

He has his point of view that people support and I have my point of view that people support and at the end of the day that's how life is.  Two points of view at each end of the spectrum.

Whatever your bowling statistical history is doesn't factor into this.   

I shouldn't of called him a "hack" but he has no right to call me a "POS" either. 

End of this nonsense. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 01:18:21 PM by Bowling 300 900 »

bradl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2013, 01:41:18 PM »
Stats don't mean anything.  We don't get paid on stats in this sport.  You can average 250 and that doesn't mean anything.   His resume means diddly squat, as my own bowling resume means diddly squat. 

He can spout off all the numbers he wants, that doesn't legitimize his point of view nor does bowling league statistics legitimize my own point of view.

He has his point of view that people support and I have my point of view that people support and at the end of the day that's how life is.  Two points of view at each end of the spectrum.

Whatever your bowling statistical history is doesn't factor into this.   

I shouldn't of called him a "hack" but he has no right to call me a "POS" either. 

End of this nonsense.

then perhaps you should have thought before you posted, been the better man, and taken the high road. But you didn't, and it showed.

But also in the same light, you attacked his credibility and results he has as a bowler without knowing if what he has done gives him clout or standing to back up what he is saying.

You say stats don't mean anything, yet someone who goes after another person here who is on staff immediately gets smacked down because that person is on staff. You can't have that both ways.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Jorge300's stats are legit (no reason to doubt them until otherwise proven), and I'll bow out there. But really take a look at yourselves, especially with the "he said/she said" crap. It speaks volumes about a person.

BL.

Bowling 300 900

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2013, 01:57:10 PM »
So because he has alot of league stats on paper that makes it ok for his opinion to over ride mine and it makes it ok for him to start the verbal attack on my opinion.

So what if he is on a "staff" what does that prove.

Not once did I post my own personal bowling stats in the thread because they are meaningless to the post, and yes even if you have alot of stats that doesn't mean your still not a "hack".

I don't have to use stats to back my opinion and it is simply my opinion.   I stated my opinion and then he started  the attack on me.

If you read the thread, I stated my opinion about how I feel about the whole situation and then he started on his rant about me. It was very civil until he called me an idiot and a few other things.   

I stand behind what I believe in and what I have posted on how I feel about this thread. 

His opinion is also valid in my book and worthy of discussion.  But if your going to call me an idiot or whatever than I'm going to call you a hack, if you call me an clown, I'm going to call you a donk, etc. 

That's good enough for me.

It's an internet message board.  You people take this way to seriously.  I come here, read a few posts, make a few posts, buy a few balls and go on my way.   If your going to get all worked up over a few posts  about bowling than you need some other kind of outlet to find relaxation and happiness.  People are right, people are wrong, people post about what they believe in right or wrong and at the end of the day its a bowling message board.  You know what I say to this right now...WHO CARES.

It's a bright and sunny day outside.  I'm going outside to enjoy life and not worry about BR. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 02:20:38 PM by Bowling 300 900 »

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2013, 02:40:48 PM »
Let me say this:
 
My stats that I posted are 100% legitimate, and whether you believe or not doesn't bother me one bit. I know that what I have done on a THS is nothing special, but I also know I am not some "hack" as I have been called. I am very confident in my abilities and where I fall within the sport.
 
Bowling 300 900, I started this by calling you selfish....which to me you are. You only care about yourself at Nationals, you said so in your posts. You act like the other 4 or 9 members of your team (not knowing whether you go with 1 or 2 teams) paid they same money you did, or more if they come from a different area then you. Why shouldn't they be able to get a return on their money too? Why should they get less back because you decide you won't follow a game plan? The POS came from your replies to that and your flippant responses. I want one good reason why you should be allowed to go out and possibly create a situation where your teammates will score worse, just so you can score better? If you can give one reason, other than a selfish one, I will apologize for what I said. If not, then I am accurate in my assessment.
Jorge300

Bowling 300 900

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2013, 02:53:48 PM »
I'm not going to be forced to play in a part of the lane that I either don't want to play or I am not comfortable playing just because there is a notion that all 10 guys have to play the lanes in the same zone.

Now if I have a good look in another zone and the other 9 guys play the way they are taught what I'm doing will have very little effect on their ability to score.

I feel its much better for bowlers to play to their strengths than ask them to play a weakness and put them in a position where they are very uncomfortable.

It's obvious in this thread that the team had a plan,  One of the bowlers felt very uncomfortable with it and chose to play to his strength which would appear to be further inside than the rest of the team.

I'm not going to complain about that.  They guy wasn't comfortable or just felt he had a better chance to score in. 

Do I like playing out, sure...do  I like playing in sure...but I felt that I had the "nut" in and could put up a better score than I'm playing in.    One bowler isn't going to change the landscape of the lane so bad that the players can't get a read on it.

It takes 10 guys to change the lane but we bitch about 1 guy who changed his mind and tried something else.   That does not add up if it takes 10 guys to carve, how can 1 guy eliminate a shim by playing in the shim area.   

In my opinion they made an improper team choice with that one bowler.   They purposely made the lanes good for themselves but didn't factor in that this one guy really didn't have what the other guys had on the lane and when he tried to make the lanes better for his game he gets ridiculed for it.   It was ok for the rest of the team to manipulate the lane but not ok for him to find an area that he was comfortable with. 

We as bowlers hear and see things from other bowlers and then get all worked up over it when in reality it has no bearing on the success or failure.    You hear this all the time, an accomplished bowler will talk about how some body played this way or that way and then all of the league bowlers will automatically start saying the same things because they heard it but have no idea what the accomplished bowler is talking about.

In this instance I call BS on the title of the thread and the thread itself.   
 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 03:01:30 PM by Bowling 300 900 »

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2013, 03:29:10 PM »
Bowling 300 900,
     What you fail to realize is this happens, more then you like to admit. This year may be the start of something new with the Ice oil and it may not be as big a deal anymore. But I know first hand what 1 or 2 bowlers moving in can do to a game plan. We had that happen last year at Baton Rouge. We set-up to play the lanes a certain way and got buy-in. In practice, a couple of bowlers moved in deeper cause it was more their A game. We started out having a very nice shot after practice, but by the middle of the 1st game, shots there were hitting the pocket we all of a sudden coming in light, like 2-10 light. Most of thought it was us (the bowler) making a bad shot. But by the beginning of game 2, shots there were strikes at the beginning of game 1 were leaving washouts. The people playing inside pushed the oil right with their shots and destroyed the line we were trying to play. The rest of us tried to move inside, which isn't our A games to try to correct this. We found exactly what most people found inside, you had little to no miss room in either direction. The equipment we had was designed for smooth rolls for playing farther out where we game planned for and it didn't make the corner hard enough inside and we saw our carry percentage drop significantly. It can and does happen.
 
It takes 10 people to make the lanes into something you want, but it doesn't many to alter that and make things difficult for others. Every shot moves the oil around the lane or removes it from the lane. Last year I took a lesson from Bill Hall at the Showcase lanes, one of the things he did was take you down to the far end of the lanes to get a close look at what the oil looked like after our session. One bowler, throwing for less then an hour (can't say how much less as we stopped to review video at times and for him to give advice) can have a dramtic effect on the oil pattern on the lane. I was even surprised at how easily you could see the ball track, the oil removed and moved around on the lanes. You may not think you have any effect on the others by you moving in, but you do. All it takes is for a little bit oil to get pushed right, especially at the end of the patten, to take what were strikes and turn them into washouts and light splits.
 
I also disagree that they made an improper choice. This bowler should have been able to put aside personal preferences for the good of the team. As they get through game 1 into game 2 (at least in past years), you begin to move left into this bowlers comfort zone. So this bowler would only be giving up at most perhaps one game of not throwing their preferred shot. Plus when they do move in to their "A" game the lanes have transitioned in a predictable pattern giving this person miss room right to help them score even better, while helping the entire team score better. Only if this person truly can't see the benifits to both his and his teammates score and wallet by following the plan, then maybe at that point it is time to remove them from the team. They are just too selfish to be useful to any team. This is the situation you will find yourself in, I suspect, based on your posts.
 
I again offer the challenge to you, provide me with one valid reason, that doesn't involve you scoring better at the expense of your teammates, as to why it is ok to leave them behind and move inside. If done, then I will formally apologize for what I called you, otherwise you prove I am correct in my assessment.
Jorge300

Bowling 300 900

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2013, 04:57:21 PM »
I've stated how I feel and what I feel is acceptable when bowling team events. 

I'm done with your horse play.  Internet bowling is not my life.  Please have a good day. 

I'm a POS and you are the worlds best internet bowlier.  Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 05:09:37 PM by Bowling 300 900 »

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: All I am going to say is...
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2013, 05:16:19 PM »
Bowling 300 900,
     All I did was point out the serious flaws in your thinking. You are incorrect in your assessment that you playing inside of others has no effect on them. I showed you the example Bill Hall showed me, and my personal experience with it. I also threw you an olive branch where I offered to fully apologize to you for what I said if you could show me a fault in my logic. Your response is to run and hide?!?
 
So I guess you are partially correct in your last statement. I am by far not the world's best internet bowler, there are FIGJAMS everyday from those people. I am also not the best bowler in real life. As I stated earlier, all I am is an above average house bowler and good bowler overall. So it is easy to see which part of your last statement is true.
Jorge300