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Author Topic: Bagger leading USBC Classified  (Read 7489 times)

riggs

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Bagger leading USBC Classified
« on: February 29, 2008, 08:50:59 PM »
This should make anyone who loves bowling sick to their stomach. USBC absolutely MUST find a way to DQ and eliminate this guy forever from the USBC.



http://community.bowl.com/forums/t/86647.aspx?PageIndex=1
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nutsforbowling

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2008, 06:26:03 AM »
If this holds, I will NEVER average 180 again.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2008, 06:45:39 AM »
Looks like a blog??  What did he shoot?

REgards,

Luckylefty
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someguyintucson

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2008, 09:28:30 AM »
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jefftaker2002

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2008, 10:53:21 AM »
I do believe there is a rule in the tournament that if u average so many pins over ur average throughout the 9 games u get rerated but i dont know if they caught it yet.
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Gazoo

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2008, 11:12:37 AM »
Is everybody who gets hot during a tournament and bowls over a 100 pins over average a sandbagger? And whats up with that 567, must have not been a bagger that set. Maybe that ave. was not on a THS

Edited on 3/1/2008 12:15 PM
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LuvThatWhiteDot

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2008, 11:53:05 AM »
How do you know this guy wasn't injured and is working his way back to deuce?

My teammate Jackie, who used to average 197, took a bullet in the abdomen during a robbery where she worked.  Her average now, with a 3 step delivery AND a cane?  157.  She shot 595 a couple weeks ago, the highest set she's had since her injury.  Does that make her a bagger?

The most ANNOYING thing about this place is how quickly we point out bowlers' supposed bagging without knowing if something happened to the person or if they really are sandbagging.

Oh, and if it bothers you that he's tearing it up in Classified legally or not, start bagging yourselves and crush him within an inch of his life
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Edited on 3/1/2008 12:53 PM
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Bill Thomas

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2008, 12:25:36 PM »
Wonder if this is just one more guy shooting on sport/pba conditions without sanctioning the league as such.  I have heard via the grapevine that there is a lot of this going on in recent years.  Also, there are bowlers who seek out tough, low scoring houses so as to keep their average lower without sacrificing their talent by deliberately bowling lower than their true ability.  I don't know what USBC can do about this but it has to be stopped someway or it will eventually hurt the USBC tournament just as sandbagging has hurt many state and local assn. tourneys.
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Bill Thomas

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2008, 12:29:23 PM »
Riggs,

Are you aware that Brian Lewis, tournament director, has told someone that there is nothing that can be done because he can't be rerated after bowling?  I agree with you that they ought to find ways to DQ these guys but not sure how they can catch them unless someone rats them out, which is something that I highly reccomend be done.
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sevenpin63

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 12:50:34 PM »
You are correct Bill T. I know of a house in Chicago that does this. It puts out crappy shots, then the bowlers averaging 150 to 180 in this house shoot lights out come tourney time.
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CPA

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2008, 01:52:50 PM »
Bill Thomas,

One of the leagues I bowl in is a sport league that uses sport, and now, PBA patterns.  However it is not sanctioned as a sport league.  The bowlers in our league who bowl in our local tournaments are always rerated.  I can't speak for other parts of the country, but that is how they handle it in our area.  


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someguyintucson

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2008, 04:47:00 PM »
quote:
How do you know this guy wasn't injured and is working his way back to deuce?

My teammate Jackie, who used to average 197, took a bullet in the abdomen during a robbery where she worked.  Her average now, with a 3 step delivery AND a cane?  157.  She shot 595 a couple weeks ago, the highest set she's had since her injury.  Does that make her a bagger?

The most ANNOYING thing about this place is how quickly we point out bowlers' supposed bagging without knowing if something happened to the person or if they really are sandbagging.

Oh, and if it bothers you that he's tearing it up in Classified legally or not, start bagging yourselves and crush him within an inch of his life


I'm not buying it. Look a little closer at the data:

2000-2001 Book Average: 213    
2002 USBC Open AE total: 1597 (174.4 avg)

2001-2002 Book Average: 198
2003 USBC Open AE total: 1603 (178.1 avg)

2002-2003 Book Average: 202 (15 games)
2004 USBC Open AE total: 1721 (191.2 avg)

2003-2004 Book Average: 198
2005 USBC Open AE total: 1637 (181.9 avg)

2004-2005 Book Average: 211 (18 games)
2006 USBC Open AE total: 1717 (190.8 avg)

2005-2006 Book Average: 199
2007 USBC Open AE total: 1890 (210 avg)

2006-2007 Book Average: 178
2008 USBC Open AE total: 1887 (209.7 avg)

So this guy's average drops 21 pins in one season, but he has his best overall finish at the USBC Open during the year that his average drops. Then he comes back this year and shoots almost the same AE score without improving at all during his regular league? This doesn't compute at all unless you consider the fact that he could be sandbagging. IMO, this guy should have been rerated into the Regular division based on his USBC Open average of 191.3 since 2002.

Edited on 3/1/2008 5:47 PM
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riggs

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2008, 06:14:09 AM »
Bill, I saw post about Lewis. It's why my post on this thread said that there should be some rule that deals with this in advance - burden of proof on the bowler if they try to drop from Regular to Classified. If a rational explanation like injury, that can be taken into account.  

BTW, bowling in a league with Sport certifiable conditions and not making it a Sport league should be against USBC rules.
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riggs

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2008, 06:19:19 AM »
Post in the MWPBA forum:

"A friend of mine bowls in the same association as this guy and he told me that the individual in question competes in one league and that league is advertised as a 'sport condition' league. He said that the center wouldn't take the steps necessary to make it a USBC sanctioned sport league. Therefore his average sinks and hello handicap and classified division. That's all I know for now. Doesn't seem right for sure."
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sammy the sage

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2008, 08:11:53 AM »
" Also, there are bowlers who seek out tough, low scoring houses so as to keep their average lower without sacrificing their talent by deliberately bowling lower than their true ability."

THAt is HYPERCRITICAL...and I call BS...and the reason why bowling WILL NEVER BE an olympic sport...

A bowler has NO control over the lane conditions...the ONLY way to get BETTER is to SEEK out the tougher houses...

In our county alone...can ave...240, 216, 190,..respectively...AND BOWL MY BEST in the 190 house!

The way WE HANDICAP is NOT FAIR...just because the next year one choses not to bowl in the 2 higher scoring house...WELL...

AND this GOES on from county to county...state to state...

BOWL SCRATCH if YOUR GONNA WHINE...that's what I do...

HANDICAPPING/DIVISIONS....there's NO POSSIBLE WAY to make IT FAIR...so DON'T BLAME the bowler...WHO'S trying to GET BETTER...

while the REST of YOU want a CAKE shot...so you can GET YOUR rings...can't HAVE IT both ways!

END OF RANT

Riggs of all people....you know this is true about most bowler's...besides you're too good TO BE WORRIED about what's going on in an unfair classified division...

LIFE ain't FAIR...DEAL W/IT!
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