Post by: riggs on February 03, 2012, 11:16:33 AM
Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/the-th-frame-update-open-championships-changes-for-include-entry/article_5fc2a37a-4e93-11e1-942d-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1lNKofHem
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
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Post by: riggs on February 04, 2012, 05:34:06 AM
I updated this Saturday morning.
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: ChrisH on February 04, 2012, 08:53:29 AM
Just what we need....a price increase. This is not going to help increase entries at all. It's just another reason for people to stop going. The USBC needs to look at going somewhere other than Reno. I hear a lot of my customers saying that they will stop going after this year (Baton Rouge). The tournament needs to get back to going all over the country, it's not fair that the tournament is out west so much. Reno 3 out of 4 years is a bit much.
Chris Hayes
McCorvey's Pro Shop
www.mccorveysproshop.com
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Ebonite Bowl to Win
Post by: strikeking on February 04, 2012, 11:07:56 AM
I can see the day when it'll be "Reno only" in coming years because of the logistics in obtaining an arena. Most cities do not want to give up their "every year" customers to host an occasional bowling tournament. Plus it cost a lot of money to set up the tourney, especially in a venue that is not normally used for bowling. That said, there should be NO increase for entry fees in my opinion when the event is held in Reno where the facility is permanent and owned by the USBC.
Strikeking
Post by: Keith Frye on February 04, 2012, 06:59:46 PM
Why is USBC charging a fee to pay entry fees? I understand if they want to charge a fee for entries not done on line to encourage on line entries. But they are also charging a fee for on line entries. Doesn't make much sense.
Post by: Track_Fanatic on February 04, 2012, 07:51:38 PM
I'm assuming they are calling it a 'convenience fee'. Anyone who accepts credit cards cannot charge a fee for using them.
Post by: riggs on February 05, 2012, 05:28:47 AM
Reno convention & visitors bureau owns the stadium NOT USBC!! & USBC pays lineage when tournaments are at Stadium.
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: Pinbuster on February 05, 2012, 06:14:43 AM
My biggest problem with the entry increase, is that they had an increase within the last 5 to 10 years with 50% of it going to expenses if I remember correctly.
With the USBC hemorrhaging money they are obviously trying to make up for the short fall by squeezing the National tournament for every dime they can.
Riggs I presume that it is cheaper to run the tournament at Reno than to build in a convention center, plus I believe Reno probably sweetens the pot even more incentive and casino money.
They are afraid to raise dues and if they are not careful they are going to kill this goose that is laying golden eggs.
Post by: Bill Thomas on February 05, 2012, 12:04:16 PM
Just more reasons to make Baton Rouge my 20th and last. I expect a lot of others will do the same,especially with so many visits to Reno.
Post by: sevenpin63 on February 05, 2012, 03:47:10 PM
Well that just sucks.
Went to my first one last year and am going back this year, its still new to me. So going back to Reno wont be bad for me but I guess it would get old if its held their every year.
But I don't like the increase in fees, it cost enough now.
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: riggs on February 06, 2012, 08:56:07 AM
I don't know the exact figure but USBC says the cost for lineage in Reno is comparable to the cost of building the facility elsewhere.
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 06, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
Not only that but I am sure that the plane fares wont get any cheaper either. If the USBC isnt careful, what used to be a Feb-Jul tournament will then become an Apr-Jun tournament simply because alot of bowlers soon wont be able to afford the trip out to bowl. Pretty sad as this was the one tournament I always looked forward to.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: northface28 on February 06, 2012, 11:23:58 AM
+100, exactly. Going out to Reno to bowl, eat, lodge, can easily run you $1k. Im not Riggs, im aware im not competing for Eagles, im simply looking to cash and shoot 1850-1900. Dropping that kind of coin to bowl 9 games is foolish for a large percentage of Bowlers.
”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”
Post by: storm making it rain on February 06, 2012, 11:30:30 AM
I agree with the Reno thing it gets old quick and being from the east it does cost you $1000 for the trip. Luckily for me it becomes a wash or plus a little with tournament and bracket winnings.
Side note a friend of my brothers was in Orlando recently and saw a sign about a bowling stadium down there.
Post by: Dewey24 on February 06, 2012, 11:41:17 AM
Side note to your side note, that I haven't gotten a chance to tell you you yet. I did some snooping trying to verify
. There is a bowling center that is part of a chain being built in Downtown Disney. I dont think now that this is THE bowling center most of us east coasters are hoping for. http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/attractions/disney/071311-bowling-coming-to-downtown-disney
Post by: Jorge300 on February 06, 2012, 12:31:33 PM
Northface,
What do think it costs to go to Baton Rouge???? I am spending $1000 for just lodging and car rental. At least in Reno, you can find deals on Hotel rooms, instead of the $120-$150/night in Baton Rouge. It is the same everywhere. It jsut depends on where you spend the money, it is on flights or is it on lodging. I'm not picking on your persay, but I am sick and tired of hearing this same old BS. All I hear is people complain about going to Reno, yet no one steps up and talks to their towns or a close by bigger city convention's bureau to see what it really takes to host one of these tournaments. To see what a convention center would give up by kicking out it's steady yearly customers. I am not a huge fan of Reno, but with the Stadium there, and the breaks it gives the USBC it is very hard for another town to match. And I am not fighting for Eagles either, but I will keep going just because one of these years I may have thte tournament of my life and put myself in contention for one.....it is a very small chance, but that is what will keep me coming back.
As far as the price increase. We got fresh oil every squad, means more expenses. Plus the tournament hasn't increased in price in something like 4-5 years. Has anything else in the world done that? Is gas the same price as 5 years ago? Milk? Clothes? So in order to make the tournament better for everyone, fairer for everyone, there will have to be a small increase. It is the nature of the world, yet I don't see everyone complaining about the rest. It reminds me of something my father told me before he passed away: Bowlers are never happy unless they are complaining.
Jorge300
Post by: milorafferty on February 06, 2012, 12:42:38 PM
Well said Jorge.
I feel the same way. I live within driving distance of Reno, so it is less expensive for me to travel there, but the hotel prices are much lower in Reno. Over all, eating will be less expensive in Reno (if you choose for it to be).
For those who say there is nothing to do in Reno, you will have the same problem in BR or where ever it is held. A hotel room is a hotel room. If you only bowl and do nothing else in the area, it doesn't matter where the event is.
Post by: northface28 on February 06, 2012, 02:05:37 PM
Im aware of the costs associated with going to Baton Rouge, I didnt bring it up as im not going. I see and get your point, I just dont agree with it. The fact that USBC gets these phantom ”breaks” leads me to believe, us, the,members, should be benefiting from these ”breaks”, are we? Conjecture on my part, but you get my point.
Using the argument of inflation on gas, milk, and clothing was a reach at best. Bowling is a hobby and survives soley on disposable income, price increase? People will stop bowling, period. Wheras people will continue to put gas in their cars, food on the table, and clothes on their backs. I dont think people are complaining, I certainly am not. I see the costs, dont like it, and speak with my wallet, it ends there.
”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”
Post by: Jorge300 on February 06, 2012, 03:37:44 PM
Northface,
What is there not to agree with? The truth is the truth. Did you ever think that the reason the cost of the entry hasn't gone up since 2007 is because of these "Phantom breaks" from Reno, as you call them? Again, if people want the tournament out of Reno, work with the closest convention center bureau to you to get them to bid for a tournament. Simple as that. But that would require people to get off their butts and go out and do some work, instead of typing away here complaining, so we all know that won't happen.
The analogy is not a reach. Things go up in cost. Do golf clubs cost the same as 5 years ago? Yet people still play golf. ALL things go up in cost, period. We have been behind the curve as prices haven't gone up since 2007. And now they need to raise costs to cover additional expenses, and to offset lower entries. Whether or not you are fighting for an Eagle or not, fairer conditions presented by fresh oil for all squads is something every bowler should be for. If you spend any money in the brackets during D/S you should be all for this, instead of seeing someone following a team like Riggs group where the shot is awesome while you follow a group who had people throwing plastic or 80 grit sanded soakers and you have no shot. You seem to be doing more then speaking with your wallet with your posts here.
There are only a handful of bowlers who can drive to the tournament wherever it is held. For the rest of about 40,000 people (based on 10,000 teams), there are flights involved, rental cars and hotels. For those that complain about it being in Reno so much would do a totally fair and unbiased assessment, you will see that the costs for Reno are not that much more then the costs for any other city. In Reno you can get lodging and food deals that you can't get elsewhere, while the flights are more expensive. Other city's, like Baton Rouge, you pay a lot more for lodging, a little more for food, and get cheaper flights. But people only look at one aspect, the flights and complain over and over. People also complain about there being nothing to do.....but what is there to do in other cities we go to. In Reno, you can go to San Francisco and the sites there, you can go to Carson City or other old west towns, if you go early enough in the tournament you can ski in Tahoe, or spend a relaxing day or two by the lake in the summer. When we were in Syracuse, what was there to do? Baton Rouge? Albuquerque? People saying they are going to stop going because it is in Reno so much are just making excuses. They are using that as the public reason instead of being honest with themselves and others.
Jorge300
Post by: tburky on February 06, 2012, 05:02:50 PM
Jorge it is not that simple to come up with places to go. There is too much politics in it period. They tried to get it in the tulsa area but there was so much politics involved in it that it became ridiculous. Personally I don't care for Reno. As for the price increase I have no problem with it since there will be fresh oil for each squad whether team or doubles/singles. People are tired going to Reno. A lot of people use the Nationals as their bowling/vacation as a lot of people do only have 1 or 2 weeks of vacation time.
Post by: Tex on February 06, 2012, 09:34:02 PM
If you think about the cost increase in a different way, it isn't as much as the whole. They raised each event by $10 or which $5 is going right back to the bowlers. So while there expense fund is going up, our prize fund is also going up the same amount. I am a tournament promoter and I can tell you my events have gone up since the USBC went up on theirs. I bet the local tournaments in your area have as well. We can't get $180 for 9 games like the nationals, but we shouldn't either.
On Reno. Sure I like going other places however I sure can't complain about the costs once we get there. The past two years I have only paid for one nights stay and that was at a third of the regular cost. This was at Harrah's a block or so away from the stadium. Not too bad. I was told that Harrah's New Orleans for a ,even with member benefits is almost $200. Forget about getting that quality of a room in BR for $50 one night and free the rest. Food is food, better you eat the more it costs. I don't rent a car in Reno, though my buddies normally do and anywhere else I have to rent a car or drive (like this year). It all works out and I get to bowl in the greatest amatuer event in the US.
As far as bowling for an Eagle. If we didn 't go there thinking that we couldn't get hot and win one, well don't know if I would go. Our teams have won a lot of events, so why not this one. Is that realistic, maybe not, but you bowl your best and if you walk out knowing you did all you could then that is good enough. To go in thinking I can't win or I won't cash, well that is beyond my comprehension. I go expecting to get a 1099 and mad at myself if I don't. Heck I don't mind turning that one in to Uncle Sam.
Roll with 900 Global.
Made in Texas!
Post by: jaydee on February 07, 2012, 07:35:59 AM
This would be a good arguement, but the fact is, the USBC only opens the bidding 1 out of 3 years. The years that are open for bidding, there ARE cities that bid. You speak as if the reason it's in Reno every year is because NO one else bids, no one else wants it. That is not the case.
Post by: bsone1 on February 07, 2012, 08:35:33 AM
Jorge300 - "All I hear is people complain about going to Reno, yet no one steps up and talks to their towns or a close by bigger city convention's bureau to see what it really takes to host one of these tournaments."
In my opinion the USBC should be the one beating the bushes and selling the tournament to other cities. I understand that it ties a convention center up 7 to 8 months, but as I said the USBC needs to sell the idea, this is one of the things we pay them for. If the USBC continues to reply on Reno eventually as everyone suspect Reno will be the permanent host for both the Open and Women's tournament. When that happens you can kiss the cheap rooms and food goodby because Reno will not have to offer that incentive because they will have a captive audience.
I also believe there to be alot of thing to do around the Reno/Tahoe area, but when you are going as often as it is scheduled you will eventually do it all (or at least what you can afford).
As they say "Variety is the spice of life"
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 07, 2012, 09:03:28 AM
Jorge,
I think what he is trying to say is that bowling is not a neccesity. Clothes, food, and gas are. Clothes, food and gas are a priority. Bowling isnt. If prices go up, people wont be able to afford to bowl because they have to pay for the increases in necessity things. If the USBC isnt careful, they will fall just like other businesses. They need to spend more time trying to find ways to keep what we love to do affordable or people will start bolting to other interests. It is a shame. But like you said, truth is truth my friend. What used to be a $500 trip 5-10 years ago is quickly doubling in costs. If it continues, OUR biggest Tournament wont survive.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: Andyman3333 on February 07, 2012, 10:32:28 AM
When you fly from Alaska, it doesn't matter where the tournament is. It all costs a lot of money. Hell, we're flying in to Houston, Texas to save about $1000 in airfare and then driving 5 hours to Baton Rouge in a rental car. Baton Rouge is going to cost me double what it costs me to stay in Reno. With that said, I go to bowl and to make my best effort at winning one of those birds.
As for the changes. I'm fine with the fresh oil. Last year the guys on our doubles pair (two teams) bowtied the pair with the old guy team playing 2nd arrow all day while the 5-high rev guy team played 5th arrow from game 1. Needless to say, we had no choice but to play even further inside. No hold, lots of push right and a 1206 doubles score left us kind of feeling robbed of an opportunity. Then we moved to singles, the pair was very well cared for, and we shot 727 (300 game), and 752 (me) for 1479, which doesn't mean jack in singles. So I like this change.
Price increase is expected. Things don't cost the same. $30, on top of $1500, for me is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I go to win birds.
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.
Post by: JessN16 on February 07, 2012, 11:56:34 PM
Price increases are largely irrelevant. The law of compounding says the cost of everything you buy, from fast food to cars to houses to bowling balls to medicine to whatever, doubles every 20 years on average (and in some commodities, such as foodstuffs or oil, less than 20 years). Going up $30 on the entry fee is justifiable anyway, especially considering oiling for all shifts.
What has to change is the Reno thing. I don't believe such a large venue is a necessity and if entries continue to decline, the tournament will back itself into a smaller venue anyway. On the other hand, I noticed a post above about Tulsa and "politics," and I'd like to say that if you have information -- with names -- then out with it. I'm not accusing anyone of lying, I just know that nebulous charges change nothing.
The PBA is already hanging itself by becoming the World Series of Bowling plus a handful of events in the midwest/northeast. The USBC can't afford to follow suit just because Reno feels comfortable to them. The Orlando projects needs to move forward, quickly, and we need to get this tournament up to the northeast soon.
Jess
Post by: Jorge300 on February 08, 2012, 07:43:02 AM
Don't get me wrong. I too liked it when the tournament moved around to different cities. I liked seeing places I would never get to otherwise, I even liked going to Billings for that reason. I am no huge fan of Reno, but it is what it is and complaining about it over and over again isn't going to do anything.
And do I think it is simple to get the tournament to another city, no. My statement was more to the fact that if you did go and talk to the closest convention center bureau, you would see that most aren't interested. There are some that will bid, I am sure. But in order to offset the loss of revenue they would see from yearly returning events, it makes it difficult to put a competitive bid together. Especially when going up against the Stadium and Reno. Most cities that do get the tournament have casinos that add money to the bid, if your city doesn't have that, it makes it difficult to win. There are many obstacles for getting the tournament out of Reno, irregardless of the "politics" claimed above.
I understand that bowling is not a necessity. But my point was I don't see people complaining about the rising costs of other "nice to have" things. All prices go up, it happens. I think we have seen that the small increase isn't that big of a deal. It only becomes one when people use it as an excuse or just something else to complain about.
Let me put it this way...no one complains that the Masters is at Augusta every year. People have to pay high travel costs to get there from places out west. Yet they go and compete for the prestige of the tournament. There are the majority of players who have no chance of winning it, yet they go anyway. Sound familiar?!? Now I know the payouts are much higher at the Masters, before some maroon opens his mouth, but the idea holds true. Why can't the USBC Open become something like that at the Stadium, one of the best bowling venues in the US?
Jorge300
Post by: storm making it rain on February 08, 2012, 08:03:46 AM
Jorge,
I agree that Reno COULD become a bowling mecca so to speak, but the city has loads of work to do to get it to that place. I love bowling at the stadium but i get bored with Reno itself. We've gone to Tahoe, we've gambled at every casino, etc etc.... Being from the east coast it is a pain to get there and costs a good amount of money, but IMO I love bowling and i'm going to go to the national tournament every year if i can.
Just like anything else people will complain just to complain...
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 08, 2012, 08:17:14 AM
Good points! I can agree that beating a dead horse can get a little irritating. Honestly I am a little shocked that more places wouldnt bid simply because of the revenue that can be generated with hotels, food, those that can hit tourist attractions, etc.... There may be a time where the USBC may have to start looking into more metropolitan type cities such as an Atlanta, Chicago, or Dallas.
How does this work? Does the USBC wait to hear from cities that want to host or are they on the telephones beating down different cities trying to promote the Tournament in hopes of getting bids?
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: storm making it rain on February 08, 2012, 08:21:36 AM
TwoHand,
I'm unsure how the entire process works but, i know a couple of years ago there wer a few bidding cities
(Vegas & Another) and Reno outbid them. I think IMO it comes down to money from the bidding process. Like said before i enjoy going to places i would otherwise not travel to ie: Corpus, Billings, Baton Rouge.
Post by: jaydee on February 08, 2012, 08:25:23 AM
Again, you're talking as if no one else is interested in hosting the tournament but Reno. Are you suggesting that no one else would bid the 2/3 years that Reno is suppose to host the tourney? When Reno doesn't have it, there always seems to be 3-4 cities vying for it. How many cities put together bids every year back in the 80's or 90's?
What is your point in saying that "you will see that most (cities) aren't interested (in hosting the tournament)"? You don't need "most" cities in the country bidding for the Nationals! You only need a few, which has been demonstrated.
Post by: MrPerfect on February 08, 2012, 09:02:13 AM
Oddly, my wife is actually the project manager for the proposed 100 lane Disney bowling center. The plans are done and it's ready to be built, but Disney is just holding off because they are trying to get a 30 million tax break from the state to build it.
Post by: Jorge300 on February 08, 2012, 09:27:05 AM
Jaydee,
And you are talking like a maroon. Stop and think for a second. The USBC Open is first and foremost a business. It is run to make a profit for the USBC as any business is. Once you understand that, the rest is simple.
Are there cities bidding on it, of course. But they are a far and few between. I would wager that for any non-Reno year you have between 3-5 cities that would submit bids. These bids are then evaluated. Now Reno comes in and says, USBC if you want you can hold the Open here for multiple years and here is our deal. If that deal is the most advantageous and profitable for the USBC, why would they turn it down??? What I am hearing is they should lose money just to make a small percentage of their members happy.....what successful business does that??? In case you need help, the answer is none. The economy was horrid, the tournament was going to lose teams because of that no matter where it was. There are still many many people unemployed or under-employed. The deal Reno gave the USBC assures them of being profitable even if the total number of teams drops to at or below 10,000 (that was reported when the origianl deal was signed a few years ago, not some speculation on my part).
My original point, that you missed by a mile, is that there aren't a huge number of cities bidding for this tournament, and it is hard to get new cities to bid if you go and talk to the closest large city convention center bureau you would find out why. With that, the cities that do bid are facing an uphill battle because of the logistics and money it takes to make a bid. So when all that is added together, you can see why Reno is the destination more frequently.
Jorge300
Post by: Jorge300 on February 08, 2012, 09:44:04 AM
Storm,
I do not see that happening, at least not anytime soon. But why should that matter. Atlantic City is tourist destination, but you go about a block away from the casinos and you are in some of the worst neighborhoods around. Reno, to me, doesn't seem as bad as those areas are (or at least were). But the biggest issue to making Reno THE spot for the Open is history. There are a huge number of people who like the idea of traveling from city to city. And to get them to change their mind will be very difficult.
As far as things to do.....if you look there can be plenty to do to make it a "vacation" as well as bowling. Spend a day or two in San Francisco before bowling, go to the Redwoods of John Muir Woods, go to Pebble Beach and the Monterrey area for a few days. If you extend your trip a little, spend time in the LA area, go to Yosemite National Park. Closer to Reno, go to Carson City, Virginia City or some other "Old West" town for the day. Another thing that people are reluctant to do, is change the time of the bowling. But if going to Reno for multiple years, it might be something to consider. If you are willing to go earlier or later then your normal, Tahoe gives you two distinct experiences. If you go in February, you can potentially enjoy skiing and other winter activities in Tahoe. If you go in June, Tahoe can give you lush greenery, great outdoor activities and some great activities on the lake. It just takes people's willingness to change, but that is hard, very hard for a lot of people.
On edit: Storm, sorry it looks like I was directing the things to do at you, that was not my intent. Just trying to give people in general ideas they may not have thought of. I used to live in the SF Bay area and know there are a huge number of thigns to do in that area. People can go to Reno for 2-3 years and if they only spend a day or two in the SF area, still not get anywhere close to seeing everything.
Jorge300
Edited by Jorge300 on 2/8/2012 at 10:46 AM
Post by: txbowler on February 08, 2012, 10:48:52 AM
I can almost guarantee the cheap rooms will always be there. As member of many casino players clubs, anytime we travel to a city the has one of the casino/hotels in it, we contact that hotel and mention that we are a member of the players club and usually get 2-3 nights comped. And I am not a medium or high roller by any means. A little craps here and there, and the wife plays some penny slots. Even on the weekends, the hotels may not comp the rooms, but you only pay $29 or $39 a night.
Why would they do this? Because if over the course of your 2-3 day visit, if you happen to put a couple of $20's into a slot machine and lose, they made more money on you than charging you for the room.
Now if you never gamble, that's a totally different issue.
Post by: milorafferty on February 08, 2012, 11:39:26 AM
I would also like to visit other cities, but if you just stay in your hotel room, what's the difference? I've listed several things to do around Reno, but the "No More Reno" crowd just doesn't want to listen.
As Jorge mentioned, Tahoe, Carson City, and Virginia City are all close by.
Golf? World class golf is available in Reno and Tahoe both.
Fishing? Pyramid Lake is 40 miles north, the Truckee River runs THROUGH Reno, along with East Walker and Davis lakes being close by. Reno/Tahoe Fishing Report
How about Wine Country? I bet your wife would love that. Rent a car, it's about 4 hours away
San Francisco? 4 hours away, better yet, fly into SFO (since there is a lot of complaints about flights into Reno) or fly into San Jose, Oakland or Sacramento(these will all be less than SF or Reno).
Monterey? 5 1/2 hours and plenty to see and do on the way.
How about amusement parks for the kids? Vallejo 3.5 hours Six Flags Discovery Kingdom
Or Santa Clara 4 hours Great America
Head to the Northern California coast to see the largest trees you will ever see and some amazing coastal scenery. 6+ hours Avenue of the Giants
Yosemite National Park is about 3 1/2 hours to Tuolomne Meadows and 5 hours to the famous Yosemite valley.
How about a little adventure, something out of the ordinary? How about white water rafting? White Water rafting on the American River. Ok, how about skydiving? Reno/Tahoe Skydiving
Again, I hear you about the Open being in the same place, and yea, Reno itself can get old. But honestly, is Baton Rouge going to be any better for you? El Paso in 2015? Not if you don't get your butt out of your hotel room and see the surrounding area it won't.
Stop being a room rat, you might find that you can enjoy yourself a lot more.
Edited by milorafferty on 2/8/2012 at 12:40 PM
Post by: Mike James on February 13, 2012, 01:29:33 PM
Be carefull what you wish for you just might get it......with the new changes in 2013 and the fresh oil...i can see the elite having some major problems......first they like to break down the team event pattern then move in and fire away.....now in minors they don;t have the time to do this and are forced to bowl on the actual fresh.....interesting
Post by: Andyman3333 on February 13, 2012, 04:27:19 PM
Mike,
I'm not sure the fresh will really hurt the best teams when it comes to singles and doubles. They'll still have six players, can still work in a spot, and still open it up. Just think, once you've opened up the lane a little, you have less traffic, less transition and can maintain stronger entry angles. And you're not moving pairs. I would figure winning scores in doubles might decrease a little, but the winning scores in singles are going to be very high. I think this will expand the difference between good players and not so good players.
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.
Post by: Mike James on February 14, 2012, 06:06:30 AM
Difference is you only get one ball on each lane during doubles....hard to carve in a track in so short of a time
Post by: dR3w on February 14, 2012, 07:28:39 AM
dR3w
"This space for rent"
Edited by dR3w on 2/15/2012 at 3:15 PM
Edited by dR3w on 2/15/2012 at 3:15 PM
Post by: sport300 on February 14, 2012, 07:35:32 AM
i agree with andy. regardless of only 6 people to a pair vs. 8 or 10, when managed properly, the lanes will come to you. it may take a little longer at times, but when it does, that's when you'll see the seperation in the scores. it's still better to manage the shot properly than not.
now that you have the opportunity to practice on the shot @ the covention center, that will take even more guesswork out of the equation. i can see some of the stronger teams booking 2 or 3 sessions on the practice lanes just to master the game plan.
Post by: Andyman3333 on February 14, 2012, 10:08:32 AM
You get two balls per lane. Just to clarify. And good teams/bowlers will use a portion of their first game to create room for games two and three and hope to go big. That's why in team they are shooting for 1050-1100 in game 1 and trying for 1150-1200 in games two and three.
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.
Post by: Jorge300 on February 15, 2012, 02:33:21 PM
dR3,
Yes, starting in 2013 all 6 minor games will be bowled on the same pair. This was done, as was the fresh oil for every squad, to remove the variable bowlers outside of your team/group can influence the final outcome of your scores. Only those bowlers bowling with you and you affect your scores.
Jorge300
Post by: Tex on March 03, 2012, 12:26:07 AM
The not changing lanes has been popular here in Texas for several years. My tournaments went to this I think 4 years ago. We have fully reconditioned every squad since the 90's. The no change has a scheduling advatage as well. The lanes that end up with 4 bowlers get done much faster and there is no loss of time moving from pair to pair. Also always seemed like break time too. I believe our state converted just before I did, our city championship a couple years later. I also do 10 minutes practice while some think that they save time with two balls on each lane and I challenge them to keeping track of the time, especially in team event. I like all of the changes other than forcing the on line regestration with the extra fees. As far as the 180, well how much did you put in brackets last year compared to the 150, the extra 30 is chicken feed as we say down here.
Roll with 900 Global.
Made in Texas!
Post by: mainzer on March 03, 2012, 12:35:23 AM
I like the changes, Thirty extra bucks isn't that big of a deal if you can afford to make the trip you can handle an extra thirty bucks.
Fresh oil for all shifts will probably lower scoring pace, and allow the cream to rise to the top, which is a good thing, the house mouse gets enough of an ego boost for 32 weeks out of a year he should be able to handle one good ass kicking a year for humility therapy. Better bowlers will be able to break the pattern down and and score well across all events.
MainzerPower
Post by: DrBob806 on March 05, 2012, 02:14:34 PM