BallReviews
General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: Mighty Fish on July 18, 2014, 01:22:10 PM
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Every year, some people claim that USBC Open scores are far too high, given the number of honor scores and the scores needed to win or place high in the standings.
However, even though the overall scores were a bit higher than those in recent years, only very few -- outside of the best players and shotmakers -- scored at high levels in the tournament.
This year, the entire field averaged 171.79 -- with a total pinfall of 68,401,949 over 398,179 games -- as compared to 168.3 over 461,357 games in 2013.
The Classified division -- including bowlers with entering averages of 180 or under -- averaged a composite 149.24 this year, while the composite average in the Regular Division was 178.38.
Keep in mind that the Regular Division includes bowlers with averages of 181 and higher -- and many of them average well over 200 -- so it's more than obvious that most bowlers shoot FAR LOWER scores than they do back home, but in the absence of THS conditions, that shouldn't be surprising.
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It would be interesting to see the percentage breakdown by average range (i.e. 140-149, 150-159, 160-169….. 220-229, etc) and compare that to past tournament results. Based on my own experience and observations in Reno this year, it appeared the lower ability bowlers struggled just as much as ever, but the more elite bowlers feasted a little more.
Looking at just one number for the entire field doesn't tell enough. Others might have a different perspective.
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Lane conditions always impact the higher average bowlers more than lower average, be it for better or worse. This year played easier for me than in some other years. I think the ice oil sets up a little nicer, maybe more of a track, than oils they used prior to last season. It took almost 1800 to cash in all events, one of the highest ever.
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The overall avg isn't the issue ... I would like to know what the avg's for people that practice on the condition for months with a companion team are vs those that just show up and bowl? As long as they keep giving people access to the pattern ahead of time and allowing companion teams to bowl together the gap between the have's and the have nots is going to get greater and greater ... that's the real issue with the USBC tournament.
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Everyone has access to the information. Those that make the choice not to take advantage of the information are not have nots.
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Everyone has access to the information. Those that make the choice not to take advantage of the information are not have nots.
Really?? So everyone has access to lanes with a machine and oil?? Over 98% of the field does not have "access".
The numbers above don't lie ... why are the higher scores going up but overall avg not going up??
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Do you think all these teams bowl league together and all live next to each other? No, they make plans to get together some place that will accommodate them. Everyone has that opportunity.
The overall average was up 3 pins. That is significant given the number of games bowled.
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Its not about having access to the pattern the USBC uses. Rather about having access to flatter patterns in general, and having the time and inclination to build your game around those patterns. Most high average bowlers who struggle on the USBC shot don't suffer from lack of accuracy and consistent execution. Rather they have built their game around having more swing area than is generally available on flatter patterns that have 5 or 6 loads of oil out to 2 board. Bowling is a feedback game. Can't blame bowlers for honing their game on the environment they most often encounter.
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Its not about having access to the pattern the USBC uses. Rather about having access to flatter patterns in general, and having the time and inclination to build your game around those patterns. Most high average bowlers who struggle on the USBC shot don't suffer from lack of accuracy and consistent execution. Rather they have built their game around having more swing area than is generally available on flatter patterns that have 5 or 6 loads of oil out to 2 board. Bowling is a feedback game. Can't blame bowlers for honing their game on the environment they most often encounter.
Ok ... say you and I are equal golfers, you go practice 36 holes a day at Augusta and I practice 36 holes a day at my local community course and then you and I play each other for $$$ on my local course. Who has the advantage? I do. It doesn't matter that you played a tougher course every day, i'll know the exact yardages, i'll know the nuances of the greens. 9 times out of 10 you wouldn't have a chance.
Same thing with the pattern ... if you get to practice on the actual pattern you're going to get to learn the nuances of it including ball reactions and breakdown patterns. That's going to be an advantage. Just look at the top 100 every year, it's the same people over and over. You read the message boards and every time they talk about how they've been practicing on it for weeks at a time. It's not a coincidence.
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Its not about having access to the pattern the USBC uses. Rather about having access to flatter patterns in general, and having the time and inclination to build your game around those patterns. Most high average bowlers who struggle on the USBC shot don't suffer from lack of accuracy and consistent execution. Rather they have built their game around having more swing area than is generally available on flatter patterns that have 5 or 6 loads of oil out to 2 board. Bowling is a feedback game. Can't blame bowlers for honing their game on the environment they most often encounter.
Ok ... say you and I are equal golfers, you go practice 36 holes a day at Augusta and I practice 36 holes a day at my local community course and then you and I play each other for $$$ on my local course. Who has the advantage? I do. It doesn't matter that you played a tougher course every day, i'll know the exact yardages, i'll know the nuances of the greens. 9 times out of 10 you wouldn't have a chance.
Same thing with the pattern ... if you get to practice on the actual pattern you're going to get to learn the nuances of it including ball reactions and breakdown patterns. That's going to be an advantage. Just look at the top 100 every year, it's the same people over and over. You read the message boards and every time they talk about how they've been practicing on it for weeks at a time. It's not a coincidence.
So no chance those guys are just better bowlers?
Using your golf example, are you telling us you can beat an actual pro golfer if only you could play him on your home course?
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They don't practice at the actual venue so you analogy to golf doesn't work.
It's the same people over and over in the top 100 because they are better bowlers than most everyone else. Most people have a hard time admitting that.
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If you don't have access to bowl on the pattern prior to going to Nationals, there are always other ways to get information on how to play the pattern. This was my first Nationals and the opportunity was presented to me to have the pattern put down at my local house, but the timing never matched and I was never able use it. Instead I watched the broadcasts on Youtube, studied the oil pattern documents, read forum threads from people who had bowled and talked with my pro shop about ball/surface recommendations. Another thing that helped was bowling the Bowlers Journal tournament before the team event, it helped with my nerves and also gave me a look at the S/D pattern and approaches.
As far as my teammates, I don't know how much prep work they did, but I did all of the stuff stated above and I was the only one to cash out of 10 people. Do I think I could have done better if I had bowled on the pattern ahead of time...yes, will I try and do that next year...yes. The argument that not everyone has the same access is weak, there are plenty of other sources to get information and help you to prepare. Just because someone can't practice on the pattern doesn't mean they can't succeed at Nationals.
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@milorafferty - in my golf example I clearly stated "equal golfers" so playing a pro isn't relevant to my argument
Is there a chance some are better bowlers ... of course, many of the top 100 are former pros, team usa members, etc. Again that has nothing to do with my argument about the skew in the higher scores since the USBC started giving people access to the shot before the tournament. I've been bowling the USBC's over 20 years, decent bowler but not great. I have a lifetime avg in tournament over 200, have one top 20 finish and another half dozen top 100 finishes. I've made a lot of money over the years, especially in brackets. I've also seen the team I cross with go from shooting 2700 - 3200 every year to not shooting below 3000 one time since they started posting the shot. Coincidentally, my team started practicing on the shot before bowling the tournament. Meanwhile I see a team walk in pretty much blind because they dont have the means to practice on it at home and to them they might as well be at the Peterson. Why would they want to come back and do that year after year??
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I use golf bowling comparisons myself, but this is where the analogy breaks down. The only advantage of playing your home course in golf is the greens, which is an important factor, but it will not level the playing field against a superior putter. The entire game of bowling is played on a surface. The reaction from a surface conditioned flatter compared to one loaded up in the middle is significantly different. In golf a dog leg left is a dog leg left. A 150 yard approach is s 150 yard approach. Repeating your swing, knowing your own distances, and having a short game will suit you well against a comparable caliber player no matter what course you go to. If there is a bunch of local course knowledge necessary, one round should suit you well because you don't need to be nearly as versatile in your swing on different golf courses as you do with your release and ball selection on different lane conditions.
If you think bowling on a pattern in a local house that is set up like nationals is anything more than a rough approximation you are mistaken. The best thing is to get every opportunity possible to bowl on flatter patterns of varying lengths. It takes time, but you learn some characteristics of those distances that show up to your game, and allow you to make better reads, and better educated guesses of the adjustments. Bowling on any flat pattern is much more about the transitions and what you do with them, than it is about getting lined up out of the gate.
No substitute for bowling lots of tournaments, and paying your dues.
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If you think bowling on a pattern in a local house that is set up like nationals is anything more than a rough approximation you are mistaken. The best thing is to get every opportunity possible to bowl on flatter patterns of varying lengths. It takes time, but you learn some characteristics of those distances that show up to your game, and allow you to make better reads, and better educated guesses of the adjustments. Bowling on any flat pattern is much more about the transitions and what you do with them, than it is about getting lined up out of the gate.
No substitute for bowling lots of tournaments, and paying your dues.
Wise words. Should be required BR reading.
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Not everyone has the same opportunity though for various reasons (lack of sport leagues, money to practice, money for balls, etc).
Here's what I do believe though: If I bowled on one of the elite teams with one of their elite companion teams, I would perform better than I do bowling with my friends. They are better bowlers for sure, but they also change the environment in a way that a "normal" group of bowlers cannot.
I've said this for years and it's still true: fair is a point of view. I'm not sure there's anything that can be done to make the tournament completely fair. Even if you bowled one per pair, some lanes play easier than other lanes. We have to live with some level of inequality because there's no reasonable way around it. I do think they need to find a way to make it a game of 5 instead of a game of 10 though. Right now if you're not playing with 10, you have zero shot regardless of how good you are of winning the tournament.
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Nobody assigns you a team. If you choose to bowl with a bunch of chops that is your own fault.
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"itsallaboutme" is right, maybe you should pick better friends. :D
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"itsallaboutme" is right, maybe you should pick better friends. :D
Yea, maybe you should take your own advice. ;)
To Joe Cool's point, it you truly don't have money for practice or money for balls, don't go. Unless you get your jollies from just being in the building, it's going to be a waste to make the trip.
Lack of Sport Leagues should never be an excuse. There's currently a nice thread going on in the Misc forum that points out how you can effectively practice on a THS. It's a good read. If you have the motivation to prepare, you'll have a fair shot, especially in singles and doubles.
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"itsallaboutme" is right, maybe you should pick better friends. :D
Yea, maybe you should take your own advice. ;)
But I like my friends. :D
We may not be very good, but we look great doing it. ;D ;D
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But I like my friends. :D
We may not be very good, but we look great doing it. ;D ;D
Amen :P
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I love how these threads always dissolve to people saying don't go with those same people not understanding that their advice would mean there's no tournament for any of them to bowl in. If the only people that show up are the teams with a chance to win and the people looking to profit off the tournament, you won't have a tournament for long.
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I love how these threads always dissolve to people saying don't go with those same people not understanding that their advice would mean there's no tournament for any of them to bowl in. If the only people that show up are the teams with a chance to win and the people looking to profit off the tournament, you won't have a tournament for long.
Could almost substitute 'league' for 'tournament'.
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I love how these threads always dissolve to people saying don't go with those same people not understanding that their advice would mean there's no tournament for any of them to bowl in. If the only people that show up are the teams with a chance to win and the people looking to profit off the tournament, you won't have a tournament for long.
I didn't say not to go. I said that if you have to money to practice, then there isn't an excuse for not being able to prepare, even on a THS. Otherwise, why go unless the objective is just the good feeling from being there?
Really, it doesn't take extraordinary results to cash in a few events, and even get a good chunk of your entry fee back. In team, we didn't bowl great, but we cashed and had a great time in the process. Winning an Eagle isn't the only measure of success.
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I love how these threads always dissolve to people saying don't go with those same people not understanding that their advice would mean there's no tournament for any of them to bowl in. If the only people that show up are the teams with a chance to win and the people looking to profit off the tournament, you won't have a tournament for long.
I didn't say not to go. I said that if you have to money to practice, then there isn't an excuse for not being able to prepare, even on a THS. Otherwise, why go unless the objective is just the good feeling from being there?
Really, it doesn't take extraordinary results to cash in a few events, and even get a good chunk of your entry fee back. In team, we didn't bowl great, but we cashed and had a great time in the process. Winning an Eagle isn't the only measure of success.
I don't disagree for the most part. Personally I have the money to practice, but I don't have the time and if I'm being completely honest I don't have the desire to do so either. Bowling is much more of a hobby now for me, and there's nothing wrong with that. I go to Nationals every year to see and spend time with the people I used to bowl with - the trip is not about bowling at all for me and eventually I will act on my threat to just show up to hang out and not to bowl.
I don't make this point for my benefit; I make it for everyone's benefit. These threads start every year and they end up in the same place every year. Someone feels (likely rightfully so) that they have no chance to compete and someone else tells them not to go. It happens every year. If you want to keep having a tournament, you need those people to keep going. Instead of telling them not to go or get better (getting better isn't an option for everybody), people should be coming up with a way to make it worth their while to keep going.
I don't belong to any message boards for any other sports - do all sports seem to have this problem or is it just a bowling issue? It seems that we don't band together, even when our sport/recreational activity is facing some fairly challenging times.
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Guys on golf forums don't complain when the best player wins a scratch event. They seem to understand that is the way it works. Somehow bowlers don't get that and they want to make things "fair".
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Guys on golf forums don't complain when the best player wins a scratch event. They seem to understand that is the way it works. Somehow bowlers don't get that and they want to make things "fair".
Guys on golf forums aren't relying on guys with no chance of winning to get their money either.
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Personally; I think they need a third division. The guys averaging less than 190 have very little chance to cash unless they get into brackets and make all their spares. Cant imagine many 180 guys are out there shooting 1900 plus much less 2200.
Think there should be a 169 and below classified division, a 171 to 200 regular division, and a 201 and above elite division. Back some 25-30 years ago when it took "only" 2100 or less even to win an eagle; it was more understandable to have only 2 divisions. However; now that it takes at or close to 2300 to win an eagle and now 3500+ to have a chance at a team eagle; it makes zero sense to have people less than 190 bowling against them.
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Guys on golf forums don't complain when the best player wins a scratch event. They seem to understand that is the way it works. Somehow bowlers don't get that and they want to make things "fair".
Guys on golf forums aren't relying on guys with no chance of winning to get their money either.
Why do people want to compare bowling with golf? Two completely different things. And besides, if you play a tournament at your local muni course, you ARE playing for the other players money. Golf doesn't have the equivalent of the USBC Open.
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I don't make this point for my benefit; I make it for everyone's benefit. These threads start every year and they end up in the same place every year. Someone feels (likely rightfully so) that they have no chance to compete and someone else tells them not to go. It happens every year. If you want to keep having a tournament, you need those people to keep going. Instead of telling them not to go or get better (getting better isn't an option for everybody), people should be coming up with a way to make it worth their while to keep going.
I don't disagree with this. The USBC needs to make sure the tournament is a special experience people can't get in their own backyard. That's why I'm concerned about any proposals that would dumb down the event to a glorified city or state tournament, even if it saved a few bucks. Do that, and people will stop coming in droves.
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The USGA has plenty of different events that can be compared to the USBC. The difference is there is enough support for them with highly skilled players that they can set eligibility requirements for participation.
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The USGA has plenty of different events that can be compared to the USBC. The difference is there is enough support for them with highly skilled players that they can set eligibility requirements for participation.
Enough support??? What USGA event brings in 10,000+ golfers every time it's held?
And yes, 10,000 is a very low number as the USBC Open brings in multiples of that number, but being reasonable, I limited it to that number. There is nothing that compares on the USGA calender. Sure there are qualifying tournaments, but the Open Championships do not have any qualifying events. Just pay your fee and show up to bowl. I supposed you CAN compare them, but there isn't a real comparison.
I think people compare golf and bowling is because it's something where a lot of people participate in both sports. You could as easily compare bowling and poker.
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I have seen this arguement over and over again. The issue becomes...where do you draw the line. Do you really think someone averaging 205 on THS will compete with the guys winning Eagles? Then the 205-210 average bowlers start to get upset. And it will continue until you wind up with 5-6 different divisions. If that happens, people will think the prize money drop this year was nothing compared to what they would see in this case.
And to Lefty Gomez....if you don't share the pattern, do you think it would be completly secret? How do you stop people who go the first days of the tournament from sharing the info with their friends who bowl later? How do you stop the local bowlers from going into the venue and learning the pattern prior to their bowling? This isn't the Oscar votes kept secret by a 3rd party. The pattern will get out. You think the "have nots" are at a disadvantage now...it would grow exponentially if you tried to keep the pattern secret. With the information announced publically, everyone has the same information. It is now up to them to take advantage of that or to ignore it. And to those who say your center won't put it down, have you gone to the manager with a real proposal or did you just ask one off? Get with your leaguemates, get a group together and show the manager that if he puts the shot down on a normally quiet time (like a Sunday Morning) he will get 5, 10, 15 etc people coming in to practice. That's x number of open games at $x.xx dollars, that's snack bar revenue for drinks and food, show them the money they are throwing away for not doing it. If they still refuse, then go to the owner and show him what his manager is throwing away. I would think that any smart businessman would see the value.
Personally; I think they need a third division. The guys averaging less than 190 have very little chance to cash unless they get into brackets and make all their spares. Cant imagine many 180 guys are out there shooting 1900 plus much less 2200.
Think there should be a 169 and below classified division, a 171 to 200 regular division, and a 201 and above elite division. Back some 25-30 years ago when it took "only" 2100 or less even to win an eagle; it was more understandable to have only 2 divisions. However; now that it takes at or close to 2300 to win an eagle and now 3500+ to have a chance at a team eagle; it makes zero sense to have people less than 190 bowling against them.
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Milo,
My point with golf was that guys don't complain when the people that are supposed to win do. Bowling is the only thing I've ever done where people want it to be "fair" for a lesser skilled participant.
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Jorge nails it exactly. There is no simple solution. As much as I'm not a fan of everything USBC has done, if there was an easy way to give more people a chance to do well I believe they would have done so already.
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Milo,
My point with golf was that guys don't complain when the people that are supposed to win do. Bowling is the only thing I've ever done where people want it to be "fair" for a lesser skilled participant.
We must be playing in different golf environments then. I've entered quite a few local golf tournaments and golfers are just as much(if not more) a bunch of whinners as bowlers when complaining about "sandbaggers" when a handicap system is used to make it fair to lessor skilled players.
I would bet the term sandbagging even originated with golf.
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And to Lefty Gomez....if you don't share the pattern, do you think it would be completly secret? How do you stop people who go the first days of the tournament from sharing the info with their friends who bowl later? How do you stop the local bowlers from going into the venue and learning the pattern prior to their bowling? This isn't the Oscar votes kept secret by a 3rd party. The pattern will get out. You think the "have nots" are at a disadvantage now...it would grow exponentially if you tried to keep the pattern secret. With the information announced publically, everyone has the same information. It is now up to them to take advantage of that or to ignore it. And to those who say your center won't put it down, have you gone to the manager with a real proposal or did you just ask one off? Get with your leaguemates, get a group together and show the manager that if he puts the shot down on a normally quiet time (like a Sunday Morning) he will get 5, 10, 15 etc people coming in to practice. That's x number of open games at $x.xx dollars, that's snack bar revenue for drinks and food, show them the money they are throwing away for not doing it. If they still refuse, then go to the owner and show him what his manager is throwing away. I would think that any smart businessman would see the value.
This tournament was bowled for 50 years without the pattern being made public. There's a difference between people getting info from people bowling saying "hey, the shot is around 15 this year, a lot of OB right of 8" versus an actual chart with the lane machine and exact oil pattern to practice on.
My argument isn't good bowlers vs bad bowlers ... why has the avg scores for the top 100 skyrocketed yet the field avg not skyrocketed?? Specifically in the team event. What's the difference? In my opinion teams practicing on the shot before hand is a huge factor and i think it's hurting the tournament.
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You are missing the point. There were always teams practicing on the shot prior to bowling. In the old days it was the select few who got inside information whether from someone working at the tournament site, a friend who lived close to the host city or from another bowler who went and bowled early in the tournament. And Im not taling about general observations, it was specific detailed information. It happened, believe it or don't, that is up to you. With the shot being made public everyone from the 140 to 240 average bowler has the chance to practice on the shot. It is up to those who want to do it to do so.
And look at the teams in the top 10 or even the top 50. You may notice a lot of them are not all from the same area. A few of them might be, but the teams are from all over the county in some cases. So based on your hypothisis, how are they a top 10 or top 50 team since they couldn't have practiced as a team prior to getting to the tournament site?
You want to know why the top scores have skyrocketed...I think it's an easy answer. The technology of bowling has exploded in the last 10-15 years. But on a Sport cetified or flat shot, that technology won't help you score better if you don't have the right skill set. A lot of the 220+ average THS bowlers don't have the skills needed to score well on a flatter, sport-shot type pattern. The new techology can't overcome their lack of skill and the scores remain relatively low. The new Ice oil has also helped increase scores as it holds it's line better/longer than previous oils which means teams that work together have an improved shot for longer. Does practicing on the pattern help, of course. But since no one can simulate the exact weather, the exact center design (whether at the NBS or a convention center setting somewhere else), the exact lane topography, or the exact conditions inside the center in their home house.....all it does it give one an approximation of what one will see at the actual tournament. All these factors go into how the shot reacts and how it breaks down.
You are looking for a scapegoat or a smoking gun, but this isn't it. And there is no logical reasoning you can give to show that this does anything other than help level the playing field as much as possible.
And to Lefty Gomez....if you don't share the pattern, do you think it would be completly secret? How do you stop people who go the first days of the tournament from sharing the info with their friends who bowl later? How do you stop the local bowlers from going into the venue and learning the pattern prior to their bowling? This isn't the Oscar votes kept secret by a 3rd party. The pattern will get out. You think the "have nots" are at a disadvantage now...it would grow exponentially if you tried to keep the pattern secret. With the information announced publically, everyone has the same information. It is now up to them to take advantage of that or to ignore it. And to those who say your center won't put it down, have you gone to the manager with a real proposal or did you just ask one off? Get with your leaguemates, get a group together and show the manager that if he puts the shot down on a normally quiet time (like a Sunday Morning) he will get 5, 10, 15 etc people coming in to practice. That's x number of open games at $x.xx dollars, that's snack bar revenue for drinks and food, show them the money they are throwing away for not doing it. If they still refuse, then go to the owner and show him what his manager is throwing away. I would think that any smart businessman would see the value.
This tournament was bowled for 50 years without the pattern being made public. There's a difference between people getting info from people bowling saying "hey, the shot is around 15 this year, a lot of OB right of 8" versus an actual chart with the lane machine and exact oil pattern to practice on.
My argument isn't good bowlers vs bad bowlers ... why has the avg scores for the top 100 skyrocketed yet the field avg not skyrocketed?? Specifically in the team event. What's the difference? In my opinion teams practicing on the shot before hand is a huge factor and i think it's hurting the tournament.
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I don't know how the rules for the Open have changed in the last few years, but from what I see locally in tournaments, the big difference is how weak the PBA tour has become. The guys who would not have bothered to "bottom feed" our local scratch tournaments a few years ago, are always there now. There are a few that restrict current PBA card holders, but most are wide open. No doubt this is the same for the Open. And you can include the women as well. We had Diandra Asbaty on our team squad this year. If there was a viable womens pro tour, would she have bothered to bowl the Open? The week I was in Reno, I saw multiple bowlers who are for all intents and purposes professionals, except there is no where for them to BE professionals and make a living at the sport.
Those top 100 bowlers probably consists of 95% who would otherwise have been professionals in past years.
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You want to know why the top scores have skyrocketed...I think it's an easy answer. The technology of bowling has exploded in the last 10-15 years. But on a Sport cetified or flat shot, that technology won't help you score better if you don't have the right skill set. A lot of the 220+ average THS bowlers don't have the skills needed to score well on a flatter, sport-shot type pattern. The new techology can't overcome their lack of skill and the scores remain relatively low. The new Ice oil has also helped increase scores as it holds it's line better/longer than previous oils which means teams that work together have an improved shot for longer. Does practicing on the pattern help, of course. But since no one can simulate the exact weather, the exact center design (whether at the NBS or a convention center setting somewhere else), the exact lane topography, or the exact conditions inside the center in their home house.....all it does it give one an approximation of what one will see at the actual tournament. All these factors go into how the shot reacts and how it breaks down.
Dear jorge300:
You have stated PRECISELY why the top scores have skyrocketed, and the entire above-quoted paragraph is right on the mark. My viewpoint EXACTLY!
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Milo,
I think you are correct. While there have always been the "professional" amateurs that bowled in the tournament and the former PBA members that have given up the grinds of the tour (at the time), I think there are more now due to the factors you mention. But I am not sure it is the 95% of the top 100 as you've said....but then again I haven't studied the top 100 either. JMHO
I don't know how the rules for the Open have changed in the last few years, but from what I see locally in tournaments, the big difference is how weak the PBA tour has become. The guys who would not have bothered to "bottom feed" our local scratch tournaments a few years ago, are always there now. There are a few that restrict current PBA card holders, but most are wide open. No doubt this is the same for the Open. And you can include the women as well. We had Diandra Asbaty on our team squad this year. If there was a viable womens pro tour, would she have bothered to bowl the Open? The week I was in Reno, I saw multiple bowlers who are for all intents and purposes professionals, except there is no where for them to BE professionals and make a living at the sport.
Those top 100 bowlers probably consists of 95% who would otherwise have been professionals in past years.
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Milo,
I think you are correct. While there have always been the "professional" amateurs that bowled in the tournament and the former PBA members that have given up the grinds of the tour (at the time), I think there are more now due to the factors you mention. But I am not sure it is the 95% of the top 100 as you've said....but then again I haven't studied the top 100 either. JMHO
The 95% number is just one I pulled out of my a$$. Your results may vary. ;D ;D
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Milo,
I think you are correct. While there have always been the "professional" amateurs that bowled in the tournament and the former PBA members that have given up the grinds of the tour (at the time), I think there are more now due to the factors you mention. But I am not sure it is the 95% of the top 100 as you've said....but then again I haven't studied the top 100 either. JMHO
I don't know the exact numbers either. But during our nationals week there were an impressive number of professionals present. And for the most part they were bowling very well.
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USBC participation is declining simply because the pool of USBC members are declining. Also, not sure what value there is to having info on the pattern since the top teams go out and blow a hole in the pattern right where they want to play anyway.
All I need to practice on a pattern for nationals is to have somebody put out a 40-42 foot pattern with at least 5 loads 2 to 2, and overall volume of close to 30 ml.
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USBC Open participation is declining for a number of reasons:
1) Reno burnout - While I understand why the tournament was here so often, many are tired of coming to the same city over and over again. But, those who think it was expensive to fly to Reno, will get a shock, I think, when they book tickets to El Paso next year.....hint, it ain't much cheaper, if at all, and the hotel rooms will be more expensive then the casino rates in Reno.
2) US economy - The Economy as a whole is no where near where it was pre-2008. People are unemployed still or underemployed if they are working. Luxuries like going to the USBC Open are just not fiscally possible. Especially going to the places we go which usually are more expensive flights (as they aren't high traffic destinations).
3) USBC Membership - As avabob mentioned, USBC Membership is declining. Some of this is the fact that the youth bowlers have found other things to occupy their time, soccer, video games, etc. We don't have enough young bowlers coming in to replace the older bowlers who are leaving the game. Add that to the fact that a lot of leagues are bowling unsanctioned now. And if that was your only league, then you have no USBC average. Would a 160-170 average bowler go to the USBC Open now, knowing you would have to compete in the Open Division? Heck no. So again we lose entries.
There is no easy fix for this. The USBC needs Reno for this tournament....it offers the cheapest and easiest way to hold it thanks to the NBS. Add in the fact that the number of cities that have a convention center big enough to hold this event, that would be willing to turn away yearly business for the time needed to hold it, is dwindling and you wind up in Reno more times than not. Now add in the fact that due to the lack of participation (and higher then normal scoring) most people aren't getting back the amount of money they are used to, and you have a downward spiral feeding upon itself. Many will now not come back due to this, which will make it worse next year....and so on.
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There have always been a couple hundred bowlers at nationals who were professional caliber. I don't see it any more top heavy with guys like that today than at any time in the past. Any of you guys who use to bowl the Masters when it was held in May at the nationals site know what I am talking about. There were always 500+ masters entries, and less than half were PBA members. Most of those non members bowled nationals the week prior to nationals. Think bracket money is tough today, try it when there were top 20 scores being put up on almost every squad.
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And to Lefty Gomez....if you don't share the pattern, do you think it would be completly secret? How do you stop people who go the first days of the tournament from sharing the info with their friends who bowl later? How do you stop the local bowlers from going into the venue and learning the pattern prior to their bowling? This isn't the Oscar votes kept secret by a 3rd party. The pattern will get out. You think the "have nots" are at a disadvantage now...it would grow exponentially if you tried to keep the pattern secret. With the information announced publically, everyone has the same information. It is now up to them to take advantage of that or to ignore it. And to those who say your center won't put it down, have you gone to the manager with a real proposal or did you just ask one off? Get with your leaguemates, get a group together and show the manager that if he puts the shot down on a normally quiet time (like a Sunday Morning) he will get 5, 10, 15 etc people coming in to practice. That's x number of open games at $x.xx dollars, that's snack bar revenue for drinks and food, show them the money they are throwing away for not doing it. If they still refuse, then go to the owner and show him what his manager is throwing away. I would think that any smart businessman would see the value.
This tournament was bowled for 50 years without the pattern being made public. There's a difference between people getting info from people bowling saying "hey, the shot is around 15 this year, a lot of OB right of 8" versus an actual chart with the lane machine and exact oil pattern to practice on.
My argument isn't good bowlers vs bad bowlers ... why has the avg scores for the top 100 skyrocketed yet the field avg not skyrocketed?? Specifically in the team event. What's the difference? In my opinion teams practicing on the shot before hand is a huge factor and i think it's hurting the tournament.
Lefty,
I can give you one specific example. The man who ultimately decides the pattern for the tournament, bowls in the tournament. If the pattern was not "public", you think he hasn't told his teammates what the exact pattern is? Or a few of his buddies.
Also, it pretty much stated in the opening stream that this years patterns are initially played with and tweaked at USBC headquarters at the ITRC lanes in Arlington TX. I recognized them from the screen shots displaying the pattern.
That would mean that even if the pattern was not made public, I would venture a guess all of the USBC employees that work there would know the pattern and practice on it. And considering a lot of team USA and team USA support lives here in the Dallas Ft. Worth area, that is a lot of skilled teams that would know the "not public" pattern.
No, not everyone lives in an area where they can get a local center to put out the shot. But at least with the pattern being public, you have a chance. 95% of the bowlers have the info to practice on it. Only the ones that bowl really early may not get the information in time or live in an area where they cannot get a center to put it out.
Make it private again, 99% will not know the pattern, but 1% will. And that's the issue.
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The pattern is always between 39 and 43 feet. There are always at least 5 loads out to 2 board. If you try to swing it outside of about 8 board it wont recover. If you pull it more than a board you will go high. What else do you need to know in advance. Guys who whack nationals aren't doing it because they get to practice on the USBC pattern. They whack them because they bowl a lot of scratch tournaments, increasingly on flatter patterns.
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Kudo's to the top bowlers for their high scores.
But I don't think it is a good thing for the tournament.
As the top scores go higher and higher but the average bowler is the same then it
makes them feel they have no chance even if they would catch fire in a bottle.
Sure they had no chance before either but there is a lot of difference between averaging 650 for the team versus 750.
The average Joe Bowler is what keeps the tournament running and I believe they are starting to give up. Between the high scores and going to Reno 2 out of 3 years.
I would like to know what the team numbers look like for El Paso.
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El Paso team numbers will be down.
We have been Reno'd to the point that bowlers have stopped being pumped up to bowl Nationals.
I am looking forward to a different venue.
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Winning scores have been going up, but low to cash has only drifted up moderately, and has been up and down. Biggest reason scores have gone up over the last 10 years is that guys are getting more proficient on flatter patterns. Also, the more oil they put out to hold up, no matter how flat, the more pronounced the track becomes as guys attack it with dull equipment early.