BallReviews
General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: milorafferty on October 09, 2015, 01:08:16 PM
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Maybe it's because people can't get into their #$*&ed up website to register a team.
I registered a few teams earlier this year, but now it doesn't respond to the log in. I've sent emails to USBC and no response. Perhaps it's time I called and chewed out some ass.
Another thing, why the hell does the sub board and the team registration pages require separate log-ins?
And one more thing, why do we have to go though the process of entering the team information before we can see what dates are available on the team registration site?
Who runs the website for USBC? Whoever it is, they need someone better.
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Location Location Location.
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Location Location Location.
Are you saying people didn't want to go to El Paso? It can be blamed on Reno all you want, but it's more than that. Although I did enjoy the trips to Baton Rouge and El Paso more than Reno.
This problem with their website is pissing me off. I think my next email will have every email address on the Bowl.com site I can find CC'ed. ;D
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El Paso was actually really nice. Everybody kept saying it was a dirty old cow town and I found it to be exactly the opposite. I'd love to go back. I also don't care what people say about Reno, the bowling stadium is the ultimate bowling venue. I spend all my time there, I go for the bowling, not any kind of vacation. Baton Rouge was a dump, not a good experience for me.
Their website is kind of a dumpster fire though, I'll give you that.
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Too many are starting to realize the negatives with the USBC and well as the olde statement goes - you wanna get at a business do it with your money as in don't give it to them
At some points use something will change or happen...
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With the sharp drop in sanctioned bowlers I have been surprised that participation in the open has been as high as it is. If it wasn't for the classified division boosting the numbers it would be even lower.
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My only problem with Reno is that they have not utilized the money gained from the Open to revitalize the downtown area especially the hotels.
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LOTS of reasons. Here are a few:
1. Membership is way down.
2. Interest is way down.
3. Few go just for bowling, and the locations sometimes leave much to be desired otherwise.
4. "Joe Bowler" no longer even stands a chance, and he now knows that.
I think there are quite a few more, but they are only my opinion as to what is going on, while these are pretty much given fact.
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Joe Bowler never stood a chance. If you take any bowler who gets regular practice on the type of condition they will face in the open vs someone who will not see it till they get there the advantage will always go to the person who has been bowling on the condition.
Many great bowlers spend countless hours bowling on the condition and game planning for it months in advance. Many other bowlers can't or won't do the same.
Location is a big factor. I have no desire to waste my vacation time and money to go to Reno. Vegas...hell yes. been twice and cant wait to go back. Baton Rouge was fun. Looking forward to going to NY as well.
The end results is there is more then one reason why the numbers drop. There is more then one solution to help turn things around. There is only one organization that is in position to do anything of it.
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Yea kid, the difference is that NOW "Joe Bowler" has been made totally aware that he is "wasting his time", or at least that's how it is looked at in the modern game.
You and I both know you are right.
I also agree there are MANY other factors as well, but only one organization that can change it. Problem is, I no longer think they will or can.
Maybe I'm wrong about that. Sure hope so anyway.
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Yeah. Kidlost2000 and Juggernaut are right about those points each described. Total numbers for sanctions are and will dwindle. Then there are the 10 to 15% of bowlers who bowl the Nationals and show up to bowl the without a sanction card like myself.
Expressing the words "bowling needs to change" is not what the USBC wants to hear as well a great many people who do actually read these posts. It would actually mean taking away something they have been bottle fed for the last 23 years. Instead of the sport of bowling growing for the great majority it has turned into creating monstrous Baby Huey's whom have turned out individually more honor scores in such a short period of time than what 100,000 bowlers could over a seasons worth could accomplish.
The bowling Proprietors had expressed concerns over the matter many times over many years only to be rebuffed by the ABC and USBC. The stance was always we are observing and it is under control. Just like a nuclear meltdown. The men at the controls just looking at each saying "What the hell do we do now"?????
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My only problem with Reno is that they have not utilized the money gained from the Open to revitalize the downtown area especially the hotels.
This is the most misguided/uninformed opinion I have read yet about Reno. The hotels are private entities and are not owned by the City of Reno. The hotels are usually owned by a casino property and the Indian Casinos in California are having a huge impact on the Nevada Gaming Industry. Several Casinos have closed within the last few years, including some of the bigger ones. The major players are still surviving, but there is only a handful of them left.
The City of Reno has made huge efforts to revitalize the downtown area. Remember the trains coming through downtown just north of Harrahs? Not anymore, as the city had the tracks lowered 70 feet so as not to impact the downtown area.
The river is another area the city spend huge sums of money. They took the old area where the Truckee River ran through downtown and created a very nice river walk, with restaurants, bars/clubs, kayaking and a park.
There is only so much they can do, but to say they have misused the money is just incorrect.
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My team treated the tournament as a vacation that also had a couple days of bowling involved. and most of my teammates are tired of going to reno. So we skipped a Reno year, and then 2 teammates did something different with their time off from work for a family vacation and that took their priority and my team hasn't gone to nationals since.
For me to go again, it would have to include a place worth visiting on its own merits; because quite honestly it is so expensive to travel to a tournament with bowling equipment, reno and vegas are the only 2 locations I could even think of driving to; everywhere else would require a flight, or 3 weeks of vacation for the drive.
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I plan to go this year to Reno and next year to Vegas and then call it quits. Incidently, if the years were reversed and they were going to Vegas this year, then this would have been my final year.
We had a decent time in El Paso, we played golf and watched a minor league baseball game and even made a few bucks bowling. But, there lies the problem. We as a team know that we are basically donators to the best amatuer bowlers and thats ok because for us, it is a vacation. But, money is tight and our vacation dollars need to be spent on destinations we are excited about. Which means sorry Reno ( been there done that) no thanks El Paso ( rather see a major league game ) Syracuse ( seriously ), or Albequrqee (I'm not even interested in learning how to spell your name).
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My hat's off to you gentlemen for sticking it out for as long you have. Nationals had been fun to bowl with a competitive team I bowled with. Then it became just a vacation. It's a shame that there are no less than fifty teams that actually remain at the top of the leader boards year in and year out. No every Joe Bowler has the opportunity to practice for an entire month or months with their teammates at home houses that provide the Nationals shot. It really takes away from the respectability of what Nationals had been throughout the many decades it had without giving away the oil pattern. Many bowlers before would just practice for accuracy before going. Now it's getting a team to burn a track. Setting up the right multiple angle layouts on multiple balls for each game bowled. Nationals will eventually shrink to less than 25000 bowlers who are only game for just the bracket money. Eventually it will go away just as The High Roller and Team Challenge had. Only the USBC can reign in the advantage by not providing oil patterns before the tournament begins. In all fairness they should just oil every lane just drastically different.
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$2k and a few vacation days from work to bowl 9 games in a rather unattractive location and shoot somewhere in the 1650 to 1700 range. I'm surprised how many "average" bowlers actually do attend.
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I don't think USBC has many options on where to hold the Open. As we can see from this thread, Reno is not popular anymore, so they moved it Baton Rouge, but people still bitch. Move it to El Paso, people still bitch, it's scheduled for Syracuse, and someone is bitching about that with a comment about Albuquerque thrown in for good measure. Everyone seems to like the idea of Las Vegas, but once you have made the trip a couple of times, the bitching will start again.
Personally, I don't care where they hold it, I can find something to do and enjoy the trip no matter where it is. But they need to get the registration process to where it's less of a pain in the ass. They have control over that part at least.
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Next year at Reno will be my 30th open tournament and 3 of the other guys I go with have more tournaments, so we have seen most all of it.
Reno itself doesn't bother me so much as from here (Wichita ks) it generally takes changing planes a time or two to get there and it is much more expensive than many destinations to get to as well.
I enjoyed it much more when we went there every 3rd year and they need to get back to that. Vegas every year would start to wear on everyone as well.
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Vegas is nicer and all around better then Reno for options on things to do. Tickets are typically cheaper to Vegas as well. Now other activities in Vegas will be more expensive no doubt.
Any place has pros and cons along with a getting old factor. The more consistent rotation is the better option. Vegas every 3rd year and mix in other places would be nice.
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+1,000.000 noslouch. I think it is absolutely ridiculous they post the shot and give bowlers the opportunity to prepare like they do. It takes away a lot of the integrity of what is supposed to be the most prestigious tournament for the USBC. Has just never made sense to me.
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I understand you point about releasing the shot. However, if you do not release it, "someone" always knows the shot. And they have friends. And those friends magically score well. So did they get insider information or just bowled well?
The people that set the pattern bowl in the tournament as well. You think they aren't duplicating the pattern at ITRC in Arlington and practicing. And actually they design and set the pattern at the ITRC in Arlington before taking it to the nationals location. You think no one has seen or bowled on the pattern there?
Too many loopholes to not releasing the pattern.
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As far as locations go, why cant they incorporate a "regional type" of format. Where the east coast would bowl somewhere on the east coast, the mid west would bowl somewhere in the mid west and the west coast bowl somewhere on the west coast. Then take the top scores from each region and and put them together for a big show down......and obviously change it up every year to offset travel expenses.
To give every "joe bowler" a chance, they would almost have to put down a house shot. Thats the only way to make "Joe Bowler" think he has a chance to win an Eagle.
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As far as locations go, why cant they incorporate a "regional type" of format. Where the east coast would bowl somewhere on the east coast, the mid west would bowl somewhere in the mid west and the west coast bowl somewhere on the west coast. Then take the top scores from each region and and put them together for a big show down......and obviously change it up every year to offset travel expenses.
To give every "joe bowler" a chance, they would almost have to put down a house shot. Thats the only way to make "Joe Bowler" think he has a chance to win an Eagle.
Probably cost too much to do that. Besides, do we really want to see USBC have more things to screw up? These people can't even get a somewhat basic website to work correctly.
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They have developed numerous patterns. They could randomly select the pattern the day prior to the tournamen and have plenty of time to program the new high tech machines.
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Ok, they have 2,3 or 6 patterns to choose from and randomly select one. Someone knows those patterns. They pull tapes to verify the pattern is correct, against the master pattern that is known to "someone who is bowling in the tournament". Someone bowling in the tournament always knows. That is the problem.
Eric Pierson who used to design the patterns for the tournament, bowled in the tournament. There is not an independent party that does not bowl in the tournament designing the pattern.
And lets be realistic here. It's nationals. Take 8-10 bowlers of the same hand and burn in a shot around a defined point and if you are good enough, you will be top 100 most years and if you guess correctly, top 20.
Most of the good teams come from the same areas, Wisconsin, DFW, and current and former college teams, and other teams here and there. Why, those areas have some of the best bowlers in the country, because college programs don't bowl on THS. Wisconsin constantly runs sport leagues and tournaments, and DFW has the ITRC where you can practice on any sport shot you want, and several houses will also run any shot you request. And since USBC relocated there, a lot of the best bowlers in the country, moved there.
You could hide the shot, and within 2 weeks of the tournament opening, the internet will know where to play and how long the shot is. How, someone will go and watch and put it out there. And teams will immediately start practicing.
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Even with what information txbowler has provided. It is not out of the realm that the oiling machine is also a technical marvel these days. It can also apply random oil patterns with no human interference. Other than maintenance. Each lane or pair would not be oiled the same after each block. It would disparage those individual teams of bowlers from preconditioning a house for a favorable outcome that removes any integrity just to get a major leg up on the great majority of Joe Bowlers.
Maybe it is time for Joe Bowler to take Nationals to another level. Since the tournament does still belong to Joe Bowler. As does the USBC. Despite the fact that those running it now. Run it like the WWE. Their stock is falling. You can only decide the outcomes of matches for so long before the first ticket to an empty arena is never sold again.
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Looks like we might be headed for not knowing pattern ahead of time as is the case with Junior Gold and US Open. Those involved in setting pattern won't be allowed to win prizes looks like direction to keep integrity. Of course, there's arguments for and against knowing pattern ahead of time and those arguments are numerous. "Let your ball be your guide" looks like where we are headed. As long as you aren't in first few squads, you will have lots of information as to how to play the pattern as other bowlers will talk about what they did or just watch what is done in person or on livestreams. Unless everyone competes at the same time, there isn't any way for those bowling later to not have more information than those bowling early.
The Disney method of making the experience magical works well for them. That includes ease of entry especially with emphasis USBC stated recently naming technology as one of their pillars of future success. If any of you have been to Disneyworld, you can't argue with the effort put out to give you a memorable experience from start to finish.
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Chad Murphy, head of USBC, is a big proponent of hiding the patterns. He was also a driving force behind making this year's open shot much tougher than previous years.
The move by USBC to not allow USBC employees to make any money in the tournament should they choose to bowl, removes the big obstacle in hiding the pattern.
A consequence of this move, I predict, will be the resignation of several top level bowlers who work there, and now up and coming young bowlers won't go to work there either in the future.
When you, as a top level bowler, can go bowl the open championship, and profit 2-5 thousand dollars in brackets plus whatever prize money you earn, I can see you not giving up that chance to stay employed there.
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Chad Murphy, head of USBC, is a big proponent of hiding the patterns. He was also a driving force behind making this year's open shot much tougher than previous years.
The move by USBC to not allow USBC employees to make any money in the tournament should they choose to bowl, removes the big obstacle in hiding the pattern.
A consequence of this move, I predict, will be the resignation of several top level bowlers who work there, and now up and coming young bowlers won't go to work there either in the future.
When you, as a top level bowler, can go bowl the open championship, and profit 2-5 thousand dollars in brackets plus whatever prize money you earn, I can see you not giving up that chance to stay employed there.
Good.
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Chad Murphy, head of USBC, is a big proponent of hiding the patterns. He was also a driving force behind making this year's open shot much tougher than previous years.
The move by USBC to not allow USBC employees to make any money in the tournament should they choose to bowl, removes the big obstacle in hiding the pattern.
A consequence of this move, I predict, will be the resignation of several top level bowlers who work there, and now up and coming young bowlers won't go to work there either in the future.
When you, as a top level bowler, can go bowl the open championship, and profit 2-5 thousand dollars in brackets plus whatever prize money you earn, I can see you not giving up that chance to stay employed there.
Actually, now that I think about it, I have a solution to offer them. Have the any USBC staff, Junior Gold Support I & II etc bowl the first couple of weeks. Put them all on the same squads instead of spreading them out across the tournament. If they do it that way, they can feed off each other in the brackets and their knowledge of the pattern will not have near the influence on the field as it currently does.