Post by: Scooby48 on April 25, 2004, 04:04:54 AM
A all women team bowled that had mostly past PWBA members on it.
What do other ABC members think!
Post by: michelle on April 25, 2004, 07:24:13 PM
ABC Nationals are not the "men's tournament." It is the "ABC tournament" which means it is open to ALL ABC members that choose to bowl. ABC never wrote their bylaws in such a way that limited membership and chose to open their doors to all comers rather than risk the litigation.
Post by: a_ak57 on April 25, 2004, 07:27:47 PM
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-Andy
Post by: mumzie on April 25, 2004, 07:34:36 PM
Here's the history as I understand it.
Several years ago, the American Bowling Congress was afraid that womens groups were going to sue them for the right of membership (because of the wording - "American", not "Men's", so they opened the organization up to women.
The WIBC has "Women's" in the title - that's why the membership is currently limited to women.
Now, as I have said countless times - I wasn't there when they voted. If I was, I, as a woman, probably would have voted AGAINST allowing women to join the ABC. But they let us in, I have purchased my card legitimately the last 8 years or so, I have participated in, and won, local ABC tournaments, and have received several ABC honor awards.
My biggest complaint with the new single membership organization is that they have a womens division, a youth division, and an OPEN division - no exclusive mens division. I personally think that's wrong..
However, since the PBA has now agreed to allow women to join, I guess nothing is sacred within our sport any more.
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Bowling - it's NOT just a game anymore.
Post by: michelle on April 25, 2004, 07:37:59 PM
The main reason it continues to exist, though, is that a sizeable percentage of the women bowlers have no desire to compete with the men. Some women choose to sanction ABC only and bowl with what they perceive as a higher level of competition. Let's face it...if you are competitive and most of the women you compete with are ecstatic at shooting back-to-back 170 games, chances are you aren't going to have much fun.
That said, I never sanctioned ABC until the options that opened up at the end of March. Until then, I had no reason to except maybe for better awards on an honor score...
If the SMO would ever come to pass, then this should become a moot point.
Post by: a_ak57 on April 25, 2004, 07:47:45 PM
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-Andy
Post by: Scooby48 on April 26, 2004, 12:05:43 PM
As far as the ABC, WIBC, and YABA. These organization are spending way too much money on delegates for each. At this pace, the average bowler in league will quit bowling because dues are too high. With the merger into one group, the ABC could eliminate delegates and keep dues down.
Post by: DanH78 on April 26, 2004, 12:17:27 PM
As for the women with "no game"...what about all the men with No game? The guys that dump with 4 revs at 8mph, or the guys that couldn't even hit a 10 board area consistently? Why should they be allowed to bowl if women can't?
This is why there are average divisions for the tournament. To help seperate the bowlers from those who just like to bowl.
And I'll say it once again (I think this statement makes it the 433,276th time it's been said) ABC bilaws do not place restrictions on membership based on sex. WIBC bilaws do.
And by the way, if the SMO doesn't pass(I hope it does)the WIBC contigency plan allows for Men to join.
Post by: D Scott Johnson on April 26, 2004, 01:40:28 PM
Last time I checked, you did not have to be accomplished as a bowler to bowl in the tournament (boy, would that cut the field way down). The ABC Tournament is an experience and I wish more ABC members would choose to bowl in it every year, regardless of their race, gender, etc.
Plus, it looked to me like maybe Lynda Barnes cleaned up in brackets with her scores.
Just my opinion.
Scott
Post by: Pizzaguy on April 26, 2004, 01:49:33 PM
quote:
I am by far not afraid of the women bowlers. I hate when I go to Nationals and a women that doesn't belong bowling in this event is bowling next to me. I can see if the women had some skills. I see one team out there two years agon that the women on the team throw the best ball on the team. (4 other guys). My point is why can a women bowl in both national tournaments when a man only has one! So if you a women that bowls in nationals. Then come and bowl, but bring a game! Don't bowl it just to say you bowled in it. I go to national to compete against the best!
Do you feel the same way when you see a man bowling at Nationals that "doesn't belong there"? There are plenty of those around too (I'm probably one of them).
Life isn't fair sometimes. Deal with it.
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PIZZAGUY
Making the world safe for tweeners
Post by: minimum bob on April 26, 2004, 02:14:18 PM
Scooby, I don't know you or whether you "belong" at Nationals, so I won't make any guesses. I just have a hard time believing your elitist attitude...and I won't even get into the sexism thing....
Post by: kendog on April 26, 2004, 02:33:49 PM
You know somebody had to say it
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kendog avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes, and check your own spelling
Edited on 4/26/2004 3:04 PM
Post by: Scooby48 on April 26, 2004, 03:08:50 PM
As far as do I belong at Nationals, Yes. I cash almost every year I went. I can play almost every line on the lane and change hand positions to change my reaction. You want to talk about who belongs at nationals.....Start a topic!! Otherwise leave it go.
Post by: DanH78 on April 26, 2004, 03:14:53 PM
Post by: Scooby48 on April 26, 2004, 03:19:46 PM
quote:
First off, if you want change, then join your local association, become and officer and/or a director and work for change. Go to the tournament as a delegate. Oh wait, that would require some effort, nevermind. (And yes I have been a delegate for the last two years, only been going 3)
Well you are one of the people that are driving bowlers from the sport. I worked in a bowling center for 12 years and you are the people that keep making the sport better for lower average bowler. I am the kind of bowler that says lets put out the sport shot if you are giving that much hand. But, NO guys like you just want to give the 150 bowler a 230 average!!!!
Edited on 4/26/2004 3:23 PM
Post by: ThongPrincess on April 26, 2004, 03:26:33 PM
I put a team together for our LABA City, 3 of the team, all men, would not have bowled had I not got the team together. I put a team together for CA State. Again the 4 men would not be bowling had I not got the team together. I am working on getting 2 teams together for Baton Rouge. One is my team from this year, and a new team so everyone can bowla ll the events. So before you start complaining about women in your association, you might think about the number of entries that would not be without women getting the men to bowl them.
As for the comment about the SMO, under the proposal the men could option to also hol a men's only tournament in addition to the Women's Youth, and Open. As others have said if you don't like what you see, get involved and be a voice. I personally am thankful that the LABA welcomes women with open arms into the association and tournaments.
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Age is only a state of mind. Since I lost mine years ago, I must be really young
Post by: DanH78 on April 26, 2004, 03:35:49 PM
When you worked at a Center did the ABC come in and say lay down this pattern? No, they said make the pattern fit these guidelines. Easy or tough is up to the owner/manager. It is very easy to make a shot, within those guidelines, that is not sport compliant, that is tougher than any sport shot ever.
But back to your original statement, which I feel I already answered, yes it's fair. Becuase those are the rules. If you don't like the rules, work to change them. Don't hide behind a keyboard blaming others.
Post by: Scooby48 on April 26, 2004, 03:45:55 PM
As for the rules, I was a league secretary, president. I can up with a rule in one league to change the condition every 8 wks. The other team captians and owner agreed. After the second condition was put out, the bowlers were crying about the shot, which the owner posted. The owner went back the the orginal shot, Against league rules. Rules are there to be broken not followed. Show me a rule that someone hasn't broken!!!
Edited on 4/26/2004 3:41 PM
Post by: DanH78 on April 26, 2004, 04:11:07 PM
But please re-read your second paragraph. The BOWLERS signed up for the rotating shot league,(which sounds like a good concept to me) then the BOWLERS cried about it when it was too tough, so the OWNER caved because he was didn't want to lose his Customers. Based on your experience, I feel it is unfair to blame the ABC.
Glen Allison shot 900, score rejected becuase of illegal lanes. someone I bowl with shot 5 300's, I think, in one season back in the Uerathane days, all rejected because of illegal lane conditions. Bowlers complained it wasn't fair that they be penalized because of what the house did so the ABC caved and doesn't nullify scores because of the condition. Too many people want high scores, and fair semi difficult lane conditions. I don't think you can have both.
Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on April 26, 2004, 11:56:23 PM
Women bowling ABC came down to a legal issue, and the ABC didn't want to be sued over it, so they allowed women to join.
Don't worry, Scooby -- I'm NO threat to win an Eagle, but I don't look completely clueless out there either
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White Dot
A friend will be there to bail you out of jail, but a REALLY good friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn! That was fun!"
http://faldo.atmos.uiuc.edu/FBL/mkting.html
Post by: sdbowler on April 28, 2004, 08:04:15 PM
quote:
I am by far not afraid of the women bowlers. I hate when I go to Nationals and a women that doesn't belong bowling in this event is bowling next to me. I can see if the women had some skills. I see one team out there two years agon that the women on the team throw the best ball on the team. (4 other guys). My point is why can a women bowl in both national tournaments when a man only has one! So if you a women that bowls in nationals. Then come and bowl, but bring a game! Don't bowl it just to say you bowled in it. I go to national to compete against the best! .
Samething can be sad for a lot of men that are out there. I have viewed scores from people that I know that have gone to nationals. They average right around 200 if not higher and they have not done that well. Does not matter if they are female or male to score good. For my first 3 nationals I went to I averaged like a 173 for them the same time frame for league I was about 200. Now this year I went back averaged 194 about the same as league this year. I am sure that some woman went out there and kicked my butt. Good for her if that has indeed happened. Does it bother me not at all. I am happy with what I did if they figure the lanes out better awsome.
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nothing fancy or catchy to say in my signature
Post by: a_ak57 on May 09, 2004, 07:33:29 PM
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-Andy
Man, why can't my house put up a THS?...
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on May 09, 2004, 08:13:37 PM
quote:I am with peri 100%! If a woman can woop my as§ then MORE POWER TO HER! Just because a woman cant throw a 16 pound ball 19 mph and hook the whole lane does NOT by any means, mean that she cant bowl. I know a women who throws the ball 10 mph with 4 and a half revs (exagerated
There's got to become a time when all competitions, in any sport, are "open". Certainly there should be qualifying rounds, but to exclude a certain group based solely on gender; color; religious beliefs; sexual orientation; you name it, seems to me to be illogical. After all is said and done, we are ALL mere mortals.
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Advancing age does not invite "maturity" into your life. You really have to work at it! Monsieur Perique, 17th century philosopher.
) and averages around 220. So you know what, like I said, if she has the skill to win then let her woop everyones as§!--------------------
15 years and still going strong! 15 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAM not A CHICK OF BOWLING but I wanted to be in Manda's clique
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS! I'd rather blow it over with my storm, and 21mph ball speed on dry shots.