Post by: lefty50 on June 15, 2011, 03:26:33 AM
I just got home last night from this year's trip to Reno, my 22nd year doing Nationals. It's always interesting to listen to the commentary given by those who run the booths. Some of it is interesting, some outlandish, but it's always entertaining. This year's crop of comments was particularly entertaining, so much so that I thought I would share a few of the highlights for consideration. Some of these comments are so strange that I feel the need to promise you up front these were actual statements told to me by the booth staffers. Believe me, you can't make this stuff up! I have suppressed names and companies in order to protect the innocent...
"_________" is an absolute jerk.
"Dual angles are complete marketing hype and have no value whatsoever."
"You need to listen to me. I have worked for this company for 20 years, and I have lunch with the guy who owns the company. I don't know and can't tell you any of the Rg's or differentials in any of our equipment because none of it matters".
"There is no such thing as mass bias. Stop and think about it. A bowling ball is round, how can it have a mass bias"? I PROMISE he said and meant mass bias, this was NOT a cgnomaddah comment or discussion. We were talking about the 6-3/4 MB location.
In answer to my comment that a particular polished ball I was considering was well known for over/under OOB and needed to have the surface adjusted... "No, that's wrong, you never want to change the surface on a polished ball. You will affect the reaction that it was designed for. If you do not like the OOB of a polished ball, then buy a solid ball in the first place".
After hearing this year's group of comments, I am more convinced than ever that I did the right thing when I stopped buying balls at Nationals many years ago.
Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...
Post by: MTFD24 on June 15, 2011, 11:32:16 AM
WOW....I sure hope none of that was in the Big B booth! I know the Heim family would be devastated if it was.
Just goes to show howevere how many "hacks" are actually in the business. Makes me thankful for having some GREAT knowledgeable folks here.
The Older We Get, The Better We Were
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24 is not my age, IQ, or bowling average, but my firematic number, at least I think that what it is
Post by: Dan Belcher on June 15, 2011, 12:07:21 PM
Did they build a time machine and hire people from 1974 to work the booths or something?Post by: charlest on June 15, 2011, 12:39:08 PM
Lefty,
I find that amazing but not surprising. It does make you wonder how many people supporting this industry do not deal with their (potential) customers from a foundation of facts.
I am not sure that some of them weren't just pulling your leg.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: kidlost2000 on June 15, 2011, 01:04:26 PM
"_________" is an absolute jerk.
That doesn't surprise me about anyone these days.
"Dual angles are complete marketing hype and have no value whatsoever."
This is where it gets funny to me. Even if someone doesn't want to buy into the idea of "this angle will tend to do this," and "this sum of angles lends its self to this" I can understand. Still for mapping layouts from one ball to the next and getting identical results every time, it is perfect. You know that if you drill 50x5"x50 on ten bowling balls they are all identical instead of the old guessing game of "pin up", "pin down" about 5" from your PAP ect ect ect.
I love even more that some companies fight the dual angle idea so hard they went with a modified version using angle, pin to pap, and pin buffer or mb buffer instead. I find it hilarious every time I see it.
40x4x2" buffer or 2" buffer x4x40 is funny I don't care what you say.
"You need to listen to me. I have worked for this company for 20 years, and I have lunch with the guy who owns the company. I don't know and can't tell you any of the Rg's or differentials in any of our equipment because none of it matters".
It is true. Because they change as soon as you put holes in the ball. These characteristics are to make the core cover combo work for the desired/designed ball reaction. I'm not sure if that is what is meant by these comments.
"There is no such thing as mass bias. Stop and think about it. A bowling ball is round, how can it have a mass bias"? I PROMISE he said and meant mass bias, this was NOT a cgnomaddah comment or discussion. We were talking about the 6-3/4 MB location.
That is funny too I don't care who you are. Now if he came back and said PSA instead I could understand and give kudos much more.
In answer to my comment that a particular polished ball I was considering was well known for over/under OOB and needed to have the surface adjusted... "No, that's wrong, you never want to change the surface on a polished ball. You will affect the reaction that it was designed for. If you do not like the OOB of a polished ball, then buy a solid ball in the first place".
This is probably the jerk/d#ck mentioned from the first comment.
After hearing this year's group of comments, I am more convinced than ever that I did the right thing when I stopped buying balls at Nationals many years ago.
This is why I stopped buying and having my stuff drilled at local shops and started learning and doing it myself. If this is the kind of information or lack of information your seeing at a national tournament with some of the "top" people from different manufactures then it goes to show how bad on average the lack of knowledge is in more local shops across the country. Not all, but probably more bad then good. Old thinking and failure to adapt is what leads to the problems listed.
Be good, or be good at it.
Edited by kidlost2000 on 6/15/2011 at 3:16 PM
Post by: KDawg77 on June 15, 2011, 01:54:30 PM
Ken
Post by: lefty50 on June 15, 2011, 02:12:46 PM
Jeff, I can tell when someone's pulling my leg :(
I can tell you that the particular rep I was talking to at that time must have been having a bad day, and I actually asked him if he was. His comments were soooo far off the wall. This guy exuded customer contempt. He really needed a break from the routine.
Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...
Post by: KDawg77 on June 15, 2011, 02:23:40 PM
Was it at the Visionary booth? 
Ken
Post by: Brian Green on June 15, 2011, 02:28:09 PM
"USAbowlersmart.com - only the best Survive"
PBA East region member
Post by: KDawg77 on June 15, 2011, 02:37:07 PM
The only reason I jokingly said Visionary was because I know Frankie can get frustrated with "dorks". I wasn't a shot that them. I never had a bad experience with Visionary. 
Ken
Post by: tburky on June 15, 2011, 02:47:41 PM
Edited by tburky on 6/15/2011 at 2:47 PM
Post by: storm making it rain on June 16, 2011, 10:51:47 AM
Post by: qstick777 on June 16, 2011, 01:23:36 PM
"Dual angles are complete marketing hype and have no value whatsoever."
Marketing hype? Doesn't that imply that something is being sold? I wasn't aware that anybody was selling dual angles or making any money off of the concept.
Post by: kidlost2000 on June 16, 2011, 04:20:45 PM
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: charlest on June 16, 2011, 06:09:04 PM
Steve,
I was just trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: lefty50 on June 16, 2011, 06:56:19 PM
That's fine my friend, but you are too nice. The guy most of this is attributable too was a complete ass, condescending and rude.
Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...
Post by: Dogtown on June 17, 2011, 02:05:22 PM
I bet I can narrow it down. (see picture below)
Edited by TrackGuy on 6/17/2011 at 2:07 PM
Post by: lefty50 on June 17, 2011, 02:40:56 PM
Track, I sent you a PM.....
Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...
Edited by lefty50 on 6/17/2011 at 2:42 PM
Post by: dR3w on June 20, 2011, 01:45:16 PM
dR3w
"This space for rent"
Post by: lefty50 on June 20, 2011, 03:05:20 PM
I'll go this far... Storm's got a real customer service issue in the booth.
Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...
Post by: Pinbuster on June 20, 2011, 03:40:59 PM
Lets be honest.
If you are running a successful proshop business at home you couldn't go to Nationals for 4 months of the year.
Many of these guys are not the best and the brightest.
Post by: jhutch769 on June 22, 2011, 01:47:51 PM
As far as I know, they are not employed by the companies that stock their booths. They are independent business owners/pro shop operators..
Can anyone explain the relationship of the pro shop to the ball company or are they actually staffed by (Storm/Brunswick/Ebo) paid employees..
Post by: Dogtown on June 22, 2011, 02:03:12 PM
To my knowledge, they are all staff.
Post by: Stan on June 22, 2011, 03:17:53 PM
My understanding is that one distributor owns all the booths and he hires people to staff them.
Post by: Balldoctor on June 22, 2011, 09:30:58 PM
Most Booths are manned by independent contractors. Some are owned and operated by
the Ball Company.
Remember, ALL BOWLING IS LOCAL!
Post by: abrown on June 22, 2011, 10:22:48 PM
i used to throw only storm and then couldnt score with them so went elseware and all i hear from my buddies who throw storm only is oh you cant score with this or that and now i bowl better and more consistant with what i throw. now is one brand better NO its all a matter of match up with the layout, cover and weight block ive tried my favorite layout and couldnt get a reaction outta a ball no matter the cover. and as far as the dual angle all its ever did for me was make a really good dry lane ball. and having met Pinel i thought well ya gottta know him to understand him. i myself am not afraid to change cover to meet a lane requirments fro me so that guy tells ya that hasnt bowled a tournament shot or hes got tooo many optiones if he wont change cover cause i dont know one company that has a ball for every single transition in the lane if they did they would win every tournament.
" Today young men on acid realized that all matter is mearly energy condenced to a slow moving vibration that we are all one conciousness in this experiencing of ourself their is no such thing as death our emagination is a imagination of ourselves".
Maynard
Post by: riggs on June 23, 2011, 07:25:10 AM
I can only speak to Storm (as I am a Storm staffer) but the Storm booth employees in Reno are NOT employees of Storm.
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: kidlost2000 on June 23, 2011, 08:03:41 AM
"and as far as the dual angle all its ever did for me was make a really good dry lane ball "
The dual angle layout is a method to consistently drill bowling balls and not a specific drill pattern. What ever your favorite "layout" is on a certain ball you can use the dual angle method to drill the exact layout on any other ball you buy, and be exact every time.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: SKIDSNAP on June 23, 2011, 08:11:00 AM
unless the core and covers are different and then the "exact" layout rolls differently and your customer complains
Post by: kidlost2000 on June 23, 2011, 01:20:00 PM
It is still the same layout, it does not say all bowling balls on this layout will be the same. If customers think plastic and anything else with the same layout will be the same then yes you have a problem. Nothing can fix stupid. In this persons case "the dual angle layout method" made the ball a "spare ball" even though every ball can be retraced to show what its dual angle layout is.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: Traumabill on June 24, 2011, 08:30:17 AM
Stan,
K & K (big time proshop(s) out of the Vegas area does Ebonite, Columbia, Track.
Bob Brust (from LI, New York) does the Hammer Booth
Frankie May does Visionary
The Heims do Brunswick and MoRich
Cannot speak to the others
Post by: renoatpikeville on June 30, 2011, 07:57:15 AM
1. The NBS leases out the Lane 81 proshop to a man out of Las Vegas, NV.
2. His employees are those pictured in the Storm FB photo. They are there regardless of tournament/pba stop/womens tournament, etc.
3. They all have a long standing relationship with Storm Bowling. So, I can assume that when Storm comes to the Stadium and those guys are already working there, they man the Storm booth.
My experiences with them have all been enjoyable...
Post by: riggs on July 02, 2011, 07:32:21 AM
What he said = YES! ^^^^^
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: lefty50 on July 02, 2011, 07:47:11 AM
I appreciate all the replies. Please understand that the post in no way indicates or infers that everyone in the booths has a negative customer service personna. The vast majority are positive... However, the comments and attitudes displayed during my experience were both blatant and against all acceptable standards of business or professional behavior. I think you'll agree that all companies have a responsibility to make sure they put their best customer service foot forward. In 35 years of trade shows, both behind and in front of the carpet, I can't think of a single, not one, experience as negative as what I saw this year. Judging from the number of replies and PMs, I think I'm not alone. Shouldn't the correct response be "Hey, if there's a problem, let's identify and fix it" rather than "I had a good experience..." ?
Signature? I dont need no stinking signature...
Post by: bass on July 02, 2011, 10:58:58 AM
Well my experience this year was interesting to say the least.
Picked up my equipment at bowling ball express.
Had a crack in the bridge of one ball.
No biggie really.
Pointed it out to them and they were will to solve my problem.
Took it to the booth and they claimed it was damaged during drilling.
Which it was not.
But the ball was already a year old and discontinued.
So the booth wouldn't give me a credit.
Figured I would do better talking to my ball guy to rectify my problem.
Which I did when I returned home.
Almost all things are better when they come from Texas.Except maybe the USBC. LOL