Post by: Beef STL on June 18, 2009, 05:38:23 AM
So, myself and a small group went up to Sam's Town yesterday to bowl the 3 PM squad of the 40 frame game. 3 out of 4 of the people going are PBA members. As we reserved, we were told we had to be there by 2:15.
Before I left for nationals, a lot of people told me if I do any side tournaments, I should do the 40 frame game, so I was pretty excited. So, I start to read the rules while waiting to check in and they have the rule updates posted pretty big, so I saw at the bottom of them that if you are a PBA/PWBA member, you must inform the tournament officials before you bowl.
I just figured this means that we'd bowl scratch, no big deal. I proceed to go to the tournament official doing check in and asked what the deal was with informing them that we're PBA members. He proceeds to tell me that "if you're making a living off of bowling, you won't be able to bowl the tournament." Fair enough. I've bowled 7 PBA events in my lifetime (but only one since I've gotten my card) and have cashed in 4 of them (did not cash in the one since I joined). My friend that I bowl with has bowled in 9 events and cashed in one.
So, the guy says that we would have to wait for the official tournament director, who would be there in less than 10 minutes. We proceed to wait, hoping for some kind of rule outline or something stipulating what the qualifications are for PBA members to bowl the 40 frame game.
The official tournament director shows up and we ask for clarification of the rule. It was basically a "tell me the number of tournaments you've bowled and how many you've cashed in and I'll think about it, make up a rule on the spot, and let you know if I think you're too good to bowl the tournament." So I tell him I've cashed 4 of 7 PBA events I've bowled and that I've only bowled one tournament since I've gotten my card and didn't cash. He then thinks about it for a second and he says "ehhhh, this is more of a fun tournament, we don't want pros coming in to ruin it for everyone." ... So then he asks my friend, who says he's cashing in one tournament out of the 9 he's bowled...
1/9 is too much for them, too.
Ok, we're making a living off of bowling going 4/7 and even 1/9.
I'm not upset, I totally understand the rule, or lack there-of. I would just like to see this more outlined/INCLUDED in the rules next year and not have it be a procedure where you tell a number to a guy and he determines if you're "too good" and that we would make it "Not fun" for the other people bowling.
A funny sidenote is that later I informed him I only booked 210 last year, and he reveresed his decision on the spot and said only I could bowl. This is another example of why I'm posting this. These people don't even have their own rules outlined and they make up rules on the spot.
So, just as I opened with, consider this a warning if you're planning on having a fun outing with some friends if you've got your PBA card.
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-Ricky-
Member of the St. Louis, Missouri USBC Adult Rankings
Member of the PBA since 12/08
MORE Speed = LESS time to PANIC
Current Arsenal: Roto Grip Rogue Cell, Roto Grip Mars, Brunswick Rattler, Brunswick Wild Ride, Columbia 300 Rival, Brunswick Viz-A-Ball Cow (MOO!), Motiv SX-1, Brunswick Power Groove, MoRich LevRG
Post by: NoseofRI on June 18, 2009, 02:02:46 PM
Post by: Urethane Game on June 18, 2009, 02:12:49 PM
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Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio (http://"http://www.roosterradio.net")
Post by: NoseofRI on June 18, 2009, 02:19:14 PM
quote:
Not very Nice Nose! Adding to ignore for being a db.
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Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio (http://"http://www.roosterradio.net")
I should put you on my ignore list for your Blues Net Radio Link
Post by: Urethane Game on June 18, 2009, 02:27:42 PM
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Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio (http://"http://www.roosterradio.net")
Post by: NoseofRI on June 18, 2009, 02:32:14 PM
quote:
His history aside, it was a post about the PBA member ambiguity and not about his worthiness to be a PBA member. Kindly put me on ignore.
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Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio (http://"http://www.roosterradio.net")
Actually it was a post Whining about how he didn't get to bowl until he said he only averages 210. It clearly states in the rules that its upon tournament officials discretion for EVERYONE. No need for me to use the iggy list, I enjoy "hearing" from everyone.
Edited on 6/18/2009 2:34 PM
Post by: Russell on June 18, 2009, 03:32:58 PM
I was a member in 2002 and 2003...and I was just like you...had marginal success. By joining you are saying that you aren't a casual bowler anymore.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Beef STL on June 18, 2009, 03:36:37 PM
The responses just show what ballreviews has turned into, so people reading this post, read the original post, not most of the responses, since they're just internet-based cheap shots at me that I could really care less about.
Cashing 4 of 7 events I've bowled isn't really a reasonable "FIGJAM" in my eyes. A lot of people have better records than that and a lot more cashes.
Nose, just hope that they let you bowl this year. Even though I agree with UG that your comments came off pretty "db"-ish, this thread is directed at people like you that got to bowl it last year. I just hope that this thread doesn't cause people to lie about their stats just to manipulate the tournament.
Harry, tell me where any rules are posted at. I couldn't find anything about most of the side tournaments being held out here online. usbcopen.com is pretty much useless. FIGJAM my cashes roughly 700 times? I said it three times in the post, all I feel in instances where they needed to be stated. Take it as a FIGJAM if you want.
Frankie, no need to respond to you. You're just trying to make it personal. Have a good day.
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-Ricky-
Member of the St. Louis, Missouri USBC Adult Rankings
Member of the PBA since 12/08
MORE Speed = LESS time to PANIC
Current Arsenal: Roto Grip Rogue Cell, Roto Grip Mars, Brunswick Rattler, Brunswick Wild Ride, Columbia 300 Rival, Brunswick Viz-A-Ball Cow (MOO!), Motiv SX-1, Brunswick Power Groove, MoRich LevRG
Post by: Beef STL on June 18, 2009, 03:37:57 PM
quote:
You should have thought about the consequences before paying to join the "Im a good bowler club" otherwise known as the PBA. The "P" stands for "Professional"....it is your declaration that you are good enough to not be an amateur anymore.
I was a member in 2002 and 2003...and I was just like you...had marginal success. By joining you are saying that you aren't a casual bowler anymore.
Russell, as I stated in my original post:
quote:
I'm not upset, I totally understand the rule, or lack there-of. I would just like to see this more outlined/INCLUDED in the rules next year and not have it be a procedure where you tell a number to a guy and he determines if you're "too good" and that we would make it "Not fun" for the other people bowling.
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-Ricky-
Member of the St. Louis, Missouri USBC Adult Rankings
Member of the PBA since 12/08
MORE Speed = LESS time to PANIC
Current Arsenal: Roto Grip Rogue Cell, Roto Grip Mars, Brunswick Rattler, Brunswick Wild Ride, Columbia 300 Rival, Brunswick Viz-A-Ball Cow (MOO!), Motiv SX-1, Brunswick Power Groove, MoRich LevRG
Post by: Joeyd on June 18, 2009, 04:03:15 PM
quote:
Not very Nice Nose! Adding to ignore for being a db.
You could have at least come up with a better reason to add him to ignore.. Come to think of it, I could help
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Joeyd
Shop www.buddiesproshop.com
http://joeyd.bowlspace.com
AIM - JoeydfromNB11
Post by: Russell on June 19, 2009, 08:04:26 AM
quote:quote:
You should have thought about the consequences before paying to join the "Im a good bowler club" otherwise known as the PBA. The "P" stands for "Professional"....it is your declaration that you are good enough to not be an amateur anymore.
I was a member in 2002 and 2003...and I was just like you...had marginal success. By joining you are saying that you aren't a casual bowler anymore.
Russell, as I stated in my original post:quote:
I'm not upset, I totally understand the rule, or lack there-of. I would just like to see this more outlined/INCLUDED in the rules next year and not have it be a procedure where you tell a number to a guy and he determines if you're "too good" and that we would make it "Not fun" for the other people bowling.
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-Ricky-
Member of the St. Louis, Missouri USBC Adult Rankings
Member of the PBA since 12/08
MORE Speed = LESS time to PANIC
Current Arsenal: Roto Grip Rogue Cell, Roto Grip Mars, Brunswick Rattler, Brunswick Wild Ride, Columbia 300 Rival, Brunswick Viz-A-Ball Cow (MOO!), Motiv SX-1, Brunswick Power Groove, MoRich LevRG
Not buying it...if you are taking the time to post it on here you are a little miffed about it. I'm by no means saying this is a figjam....just that you joined the organization and now have to deal with the discrimination that comes with it.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: triggerman on June 19, 2009, 08:15:33 AM
13. Any members of the PBA, past PWBA, and any other bowler the tournament commitee deems to be "professional" will not be permited to enter this tournament.
and rule 14 clearly states they can reject or re-rate any bowler they choose
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: bass on June 23, 2009, 02:46:08 PM
I believe you can still bowl them after you've cashed twice in a year if you decline to take the money (i.e. Andrew Koff.)
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2nd arrow is for pansies.
Post by: NoseofRI on June 23, 2009, 02:59:38 PM
Post by: NoseofRI on June 23, 2009, 03:06:55 PM
quote:
Not necessarily.
I believe you can still bowl them after you've cashed twice in a year if you decline to take the money (i.e. Andrew Koff.)
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2nd arrow is for pansies.
This is true bass. Although in somes defense who, other than a jr., would decline the money if they cashed.
Now as for Roglen, as a PBA member MOST tournaments do not allow you to bowl these days, so you truly SHOULD be checking the rules for that specific rule.
Post by: Jorge300 on June 23, 2009, 03:46:46 PM
quote:
My question is this: I averaged 211 this year in one house and 219 (roughly 222 all year and then a bad last couple weeks) and I'M NOT EVEN CLOSE TO PRO, even bowling at the top of my game, that being said, why would you become a PBA card holder with a 210 THS average? What are the benefits of holding this card vs not?
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GetOffMe10Pin
Starting 5:
1. Ebonite NVD
2. Ebonite Complete NV
3. Hammer Psycho
4. Hammer Cherry Vibe
5. Target Zone
Bench:
1. Columbia 300 Rival
2. Columbia 300 Jazz
3. Lane 1 Dirty Bomb
While not getting into the s*$t spewing like Russell and some others, I can answer this question:
It costs $280 to bowl a regional as a non-member and $220 as a member. Basic membership costs $144 for the chance to bowl 3 regionals. If you do you've saved, $180 right there. Yes I know this does not include the initial processign fee, but over a few seasons you can save money if you bowl a few regionals consistently.
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Jorge300
Post by: Mvpbowler on June 23, 2009, 04:49:58 PM
So back in 2002 I went to Billings and bowled with a bunch of the guys I bowl Nationals with. We check in and I ask the guy if we need to report for sure our earnings. He says yea what have you done. I said well a few months ago I won the True Amateur Challenge for $30,000. He says ok you just have to bowl scratch, so I said ok no problem. Nothing more said.
So then I went this past sunday and bowled the 40 frame. Now I have bowled all the mega bucks for the last 10 yrs with pretty good success. I ask him if we have to report earnings if we are already over 225, he says yes because I will decide if you can bowl or not. I was like REALLY. He says what have you done, I said well cashes in the high roller for $1,000, cashes in the TAT for $1,000, a few other things here and there. He says well what were the entry fees I said for the high roller about $250-$300, so a net of $700. He says ahhh well, what is your high book, I said 231. So he says alright you can bowl. So I bowled really well, I missed about 6-7 times in the wrong frames. Shot like 1180 and he gives me a form and says this must be filled out by your league secretary and local association secretary.. WHAT?!?! First of all my league secretary is under investigation for stealing league funds, I don't want anything to do with him and I have to get his signature?!?! Second like during the summer time I have nothing better to do then go to the other side of town for a stupid signature!! What is the need for these signatures? I am bowling scratch, what do they need to sign off on? The fact that I am averaging 231, don't we have average books for that?? So if you shoot over 1150, you have to fill this out and have it sent back within 2 weeks or you can be DQ'ed. I have like 5 days to get it signed and filled out before the mega bucks start again and I have no time. I don't understand the deal behind getting this signed.
But other then that it is at Sam's Town, plenty of friction all the time and hook. They are playing very easy.
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George Palumbo
Post by: Beef STL on June 23, 2009, 05:39:01 PM
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-Ricky-
Member of the St. Louis, Missouri USBC Adult Rankings
Member of the PBA since 12/08
MORE Speed = LESS time to PANIC
Current Arsenal: Roto Grip Rogue Cell, Roto Grip Mars, Brunswick Rattler, Brunswick Wild Ride, Columbia 300 Rival, Brunswick Viz-A-Ball Cow (MOO!), Motiv SX-1, Brunswick Power Groove, MoRich LevRG
Post by: bass on June 23, 2009, 06:33:03 PM
Your story is similar to mine out there.
Had to verify my average like you did even after I told them to put me scratch.
Now I've gotta report my winnings for the next 2 years even thou i'm scratch.
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2nd arrow is for pansies.
Post by: bowl400 on June 23, 2009, 09:30:57 PM
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Tag Team Coaching success story
Post by: bass on June 23, 2009, 10:19:13 PM
But I figure if i'm gonna cash for a decent amount i'll play there game and get my ave. verified.
Have had to do it at State tournament and told them I was over the ave. cap but I still had to jump thru hoops.
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2nd arrow is for pansies.
Post by: Mvpbowler on June 23, 2009, 10:49:05 PM
It is funny if you go online or have an entry form it says you must report for rerating purposes. Now the guy told me he might not let me bowl if he felt I made to much. So now I have to be honest and put down that in Nov of 08 I made $7,500 in Punta Cana for finishing 2nd. I am pretty sure once I mail this in, they are going to DQ me! Because no where on there does it state anything about if you made to much money you weren't allowed to bowl. It wasn't until afterwards he spoke about this paper I had to fill out and that if they felt I did this as a means of being a professional(even though I don't have a card) they would look into.
Could be interesting.
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George Palumbo
Post by: the shadz on June 24, 2009, 12:15:25 AM
quote:
My question is this: I averaged 211 this year in one house and 219 (roughly 222 all year and then a bad last couple weeks) and I'M NOT EVEN CLOSE TO PRO, even bowling at the top of my game, that being said, why would you become a PBA card holder with a 210 THS average? What are the benefits of holding this card vs not?
--------------------
GetOffMe10Pin
Starting 5:
1. Ebonite NVD
2. Ebonite Complete NV
3. Hammer Psycho
4. Hammer Cherry Vibe
5. Target Zone
Bench:
1. Columbia 300 Rival
2. Columbia 300 Jazz
3. Lane 1 Dirty Bomb
I love this question. Lets take me, my book average for last year on a stupid house shot was 206. Full season pba experience league 203. In over 100 games of pba regionals 206, and also cashed in the US Open.
House shots are absolutely infuriating to tweeners like myself, who get to watch their ball over/under from everywhere while the dumpers and crankers have 2 arrows to miss with.
Now to join the thread-I run the group Beef bowls with. I recommended we go bowl this tournament because it was a lot of fun when we did it last year, when I was already a pba member as well. I never thought it mattered, and was never asked either. btw, as you might guess from my house shot prowess, I was no where near even cashing, but still, it was fun. If I didn't know it mattered, I guarantee a whole bunch of others didn't either because I'm pretty well up on things. So great job 40 frame people, way to only enforce your "rules" when asked about them.
Post by: bass on June 24, 2009, 03:03:49 PM
I was using Andrew Koff as am example.
I'm not quite sure of his reasoning for continueing to bowl regionals after cashing twice.
Because I don't think he's trying to take the winnings and put them into a SMART account.
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2nd arrow is for pansies.
Post by: bass on June 24, 2009, 03:33:22 PM
1) discounts on latest releases.
2) cheaper practice if its available in your area.
Also say its been your childhood dream so you gave it a shot.
Back when I was a PBA member I could only bowl a limited Regional schedule.
The most I ever bowled in a year was 10.
Was mainly restricted by my lack of vacation time and my unwillingness to drive more than 7 hours away.
The memories I've got from those 5 years are something i'll always cherish.
But it did come with some drawbacks like being restricted in tournaments I could bowl.
Everyone has their own reasons for being a member.
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2nd arrow is for pansies.
Post by: Jorge300 on June 24, 2009, 03:35:36 PM
quote:
Dont get me wrong, i'm a gamer on sport shots too and i'll bowl anyone, but I was asking the legitimate question of why have the PBA card with a 2-0 average? I wasn't questioning anyones motives etc, people can do whatever they want, I just wonder why someone would go pro (limiting amature tournament competition and just "raising issues" to deal with) if they statistically would appear to be a real underdog. So my answer is: to save money on entrance fees. No biggie, i was just curious.
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GetOffMe10Pin
Starting 5:
1. Ebonite NVD
2. Ebonite Complete NV
3. Hammer Psycho
4. Hammer Cherry Vibe
5. Target Zone
Bench:
1. Columbia 300 Rival
2. Columbia 300 Jazz
3. Lane 1 Dirty Bomb
GetOff, there may be plenty of other reasons, the one I posted is just one. It was the one that has me thinking of getting a PBA Card. Especially in today's economy, the chance to save a few bucks might be worth the hassles you have to put up with now and again. Others may have done so for very different reasons and I don't want to speak for them.
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Jorge300
Post by: NoseofRI on June 24, 2009, 03:41:04 PM
Post by: Mvpbowler on June 24, 2009, 05:27:35 PM
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George Palumbo
Post by: Atochabsh on June 24, 2009, 06:11:01 PM
quote:
you have to fill this out and have it sent back within 2 weeks or you can be DQ'ed. I have like 5 days to get it signed and filled out before the mega bucks start again and I have no time.
Nearly every association has a fax number. Fax whatever form that is to them and they will fax it back to you or whatever hotel you are staying at.