Post by: Mvpbowler on May 20, 2010, 05:11:42 AM
Side Note this is all over.. Wait for it... Wait.... Yup the fact that you are able to drink during squads. WTBA has a huge policy against that!! I said it in the very beginning when they first announced this damn new thing, that it was going to hurt in the end! Sure enough now it will take away some bowlers and only get worse I am sure.
http://www.talktenpin.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4862&Itemid=116
Post by: Mvpbowler on May 20, 2010, 01:43:39 PM
Post by: EagleHunter on May 20, 2010, 07:44:41 PM
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 21, 2010, 12:09:51 PM
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 21, 2010, 12:22:36 PM
quote:
Have you attempted to post this info on the bowl.com message board yet? I'm curious if it were to make it past the moderators.
Eagle, I just asked the question on bowl.com. Let's see if it gets through.
Post by: THEICEMAN on May 21, 2010, 12:46:26 PM
theiceman
Post by: EagleHunter on May 21, 2010, 04:19:23 PM
quote:
Eagle, I just asked the question on bowl.com. Let's see if it gets through.
Haven't seen it posted as of yet. I guess we can assume that USBC has no intention of having an open and honest debate about this decision, huh?
In addition, I guess we can assume that USBC has no intention of letting its members know that the event is not certified/approved by the WTBA.
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 21, 2010, 04:31:06 PM
quote:quote:
Eagle, I just asked the question on bowl.com. Let's see if it gets through.
Haven't seen it posted as of yet. I guess we can assume that USBC has no intention of having an open and honest debate about this decision, huh?
In addition, I guess we can assume that USBC has no intention of letting its members know that the event is not certified/approved by the WTBA.
I have to agree with you there. I did not post it in an inflammatory way either. I basically asked how the ruling would effect a group of bowlers I know from England. They bowl every year, and was wondering if USBC informed them, that they could face sanctions
Post by: kidlost2000 on May 21, 2010, 04:55:37 PM
Doesn't do me any good really.
Maybe it won't matter in another few years when Kev screws them over as well.
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Post by: Balldoctor on May 21, 2010, 07:35:45 PM
USBC Open has been going on since Feb. Seems pretty crappy
if someone came over and bowled and gets banned at home.
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Post by: Mvpbowler on May 22, 2010, 09:35:50 AM
USBC won't acknowledge it because they claim this is a "trial run" for the alcohol being served. That they might not do it next year, they have yet to look at the impact it has or hasn't had as of yet.
WTBA is a great organization actually. They govern the playing rules for the rest of the world. Only the US has to have their own set of rules to go by, geeee imagine that!! Most all other countries and tournaments follow WTBA rules but of course our most prestigious tournament can't even play by these rules! Another gee imagine that!
Anyone else see a pattern here?!
PBA heading DOWN hill!
USBC heading DOWN hill!
International bowling on the UP RISE!
It is amazing that so many people don't even realize how many countries have bowling as a sport in their country. Europe is big, Asia, Japan, Thailand, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain (along with SOO many others). They have all managed to find a way to keep bowling above ground if not getting better. Yet our own organization can't even do it!
Perhaps we need to take a bit of advice from some outside sources. Ohhh but gee imagine that, isn't that the case with so many other things in this country?!?!
George Palumbo
Post by: riggs on May 22, 2010, 10:08:12 AM
So a few bowlers can't come from outside the U.S. to bowl?
Don't see that as a big deal ... and no slight intended at them.
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Post by: Mvpbowler on May 22, 2010, 10:19:40 AM
Just seems like the international bowlers and organizations have their stuff together were here in the states we have nothing. What little we have is quickly becoming meaningless!
That is the typical US answer why should we conform to what THEY have. Well because what they are doing and what they have is working. What we have is crap! What we have is a an organization that has no clue and things that things like Sport Bowling Leagues is the wave of the future. REALLY?!?! You know as well as I do that is just the start and there are many other things that USBC has taken on or is doing that is just not the right direction for our sport.. uugghhh Hobby as some would say.
Post by: Bill Thomas on May 22, 2010, 12:17:57 PM
Seems to me you have missed the point. Why hasn't USBC notified bowlers that their participation in the USBC Open could jeopardize their eligibility for WTBA events?
Bill Thomas
Post by: MI 2 AZ on May 22, 2010, 09:53:44 PM
Is the WTPA the governing body that would run bowling in the Olympics? Wasn't one of the reasons for the USBC forming to get all of the US bowling bodies organized into one because of the Olympics?
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Post by: DON DRAPER on May 22, 2010, 10:16:07 PM
Post by: Mvpbowler on May 23, 2010, 06:34:53 AM
This is where Dornberger screwed us in the beginning. It was his DREAM to see bowling in the Olympics someday. I can't fault a guy for having a dream and doing whatever possible to see that dream though. BUT at what expense do you go through to try and achieve this dream?!
The USOC and Olympic committees all said that in order to get bowling in the Olympics professional bowlers must be eligible to bowl in the events. So Kevin then turned around and started allowing the professional bowlers on Team USA. NOT only did he allow them on, he had a selection committee CHOOSE who could be on Team USA from the professional bowlers. They didn't even have to try out for the team. Submit a resume and you had a chance to be chosen. The reason for not having to try out? Because they didn't want to interrupt the PBA season and the tournaments they were already bowling. PLUS doing all of this only would give us a CHANCE to get on 1 ballot that was for potential Olympic sports. After we got through that ballot we had to be on another one for future Olympic sports to be added to the games. So we had a slim chance to begin with!
So now lets take a look at this. It has been a few years since I brought up this argument so the #'s might not be exact, but pretty darn close.
The last year of Team USA that only amateurs were allowed to bowl:
140 men bowled
90 women bowled
$300 entry fees = $69,000
Plus they were bowling for 8 spots on each team. Just about all of these players had a chance to travel and bowl international tournaments to represent Team USA! 5 were from qualifying, 3 from selection committee.
Selecting the professionals and allowing them to bowl trials:
1st year-
75 men bowled
50 girls bowled
$300 entry fees = $37,500
Plus they were bowling for 4 spots on each team, which in no way shape or form guarantees you a chance to travel to any tournament. It is pretty amazing that you could go through the process and win TEAM USA and not travel to a tournament! 2 were from qualifying and 2 were selection committee. So basically you are bowling for 2 spots.
I had figured it out at one time the expenses it cost someone to bowl for 2 spots:
$300 entry, $400 flight, $420 for hotel (1 week), $250 food (1 week), plus any other expenses. It is Las Vegas and all. So your in for roughly $1400 ++++ whatever money your losing at home from your job if you took time off! It is just amazing how so many people still go out and do it each year!
So as it may ONLY be $32,000 difference roughly between the 2 years, just think that TEAM USA pays for EVERYTHING for their bowlers. I am pretty sure that money could go a pretty long way! Meanwhile so much time, effort, and money were put into this project and we are nowhere closer to being in the Olympics as we were 5 years ago. So now we just have the "Dream Team" each year going to bowl tournaments all around the world
So MI 2 AZ to answer you question it would be the Olympic Committee's choice as to who would represent bowling in the governing body I believe. WTBA definitely would have a shoe in for the job as they are much more organized then USBC. Plus they have the whole world behind them, USBC has uugghhh very few Americans behind them.
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 23, 2010, 07:19:46 AM
Post by: riggs on May 23, 2010, 08:23:34 AM
A couple questions so I understand the scope of all this:
How many WTBA events are we talking about? What are they?
How many bowlers who bowl USBC OC would bowl the WTBA events?
Bottom line for me is I'd rather see USBC offer drinks than raise entry fees or dues ... being that they are so hard up for $$$
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Post by: Mvpbowler on May 23, 2010, 08:41:20 AM
I believe just about every European Bowlers Tour event is WTBA sanctioned. As well as any Asian Bowling Federation tournament.
Along with ALL major tournaments that national teams compete in.
http://php.worldtenpinbowling.com.linweb57.kontrollpanelen.se/wtba/activitiesandevents/events.php
There is current tournaments, plus you can see the past and future as well.
Edited on 5/23/2010 8:41 AM
Post by: Mvpbowler on May 23, 2010, 08:43:37 AM
http://php.worldtenpinbowling.com.linweb57.kontrollpanelen.se/wtba/organization/index.php
All 3 zones that are a part of WTBA. Pabcon(America's), Asia, and Europe Zones.
Post by: MI 2 AZ on May 23, 2010, 04:45:35 PM
http://php.worldtenpinbowling.com.linweb57.kontrollpanelen.se/wtba/organization/americanzone.php
So the USBC is not sanctioning its Open Championship with a body that it belongs to?
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Post by: Doctor Doom on May 23, 2010, 05:52:33 PM
quote:
Mvpbowler, so according to the last link that you posted, the USBC is a part of the WTPA, as seen in the following link:
http://php.worldtenpinbowling.com.linweb57.kontrollpanelen.se/wtba/organization/americanzone.php
So the USBC is not sanctioning its Open Championship with a body that it belongs to?
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The USBC could not have possibly sanctioned the Open with the WTBA. The fact that alcohol is allowed to be consumed, during competition, is in violation of WTBA rules. So the only choice was not to sanction, with them. I have no problem with that, but I guess, it is becoming a worldwide scandal.
Post by: riggs on May 24, 2010, 06:54:00 AM
WTBA events are more on the level of PBA events.
Therefore, it makes perfect sense NOT to sanction USBC.
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Post by: riggs on May 24, 2010, 06:55:29 AM
If not, how are those events different from USBC OC?
If that is the case, WTBA might wanna reconsider its rules/regs.
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Post by: riggs on May 24, 2010, 07:00:23 AM
And please don't run the jingoistic flag up the ladder -- I was writing years and years ago about the rise of international bowling and international bowlers and love that guys like Osku and Belmo come over here for PBA events and our top guys go across the globe.
But there's the difference -- PBA vs. USBC OC. Two totally different things. One is about top level bowling period. The other essentially is the championships for U.S. league bowlers ... and IMO folks who don't bowl in U.S. leagues should NOT be eligible.
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Post by: Mvpbowler on May 24, 2010, 06:07:28 PM
Riggs, You are fully opposed to allowing anyone bowl this tournament and getting entries? So what your also saying is the USBC Masters should only be allowing UNITED STATES bowlers to bowl in the event, as it is NOT a PBA event, but a USBC event. I know for a fact that we have international stars that fly over to bowl this event, YET have never thrown a ball in a USBC sanctioned league. BUT USBC has always said that if you buy your sanction card you can bowl any of their events. I am pretty sure no one is going to tell Belmo, Osku, Dom, Stu, Mads, along with anyone else from any foreign country they are NOT allowed to bowl.
Now onto your local association stuff. I believe the WTBA rules(not 100% sure) says that during no tournament may you drink alcohol or smoke during a squad. So the way I read it if a bowler representing a team of any country is bowling in one of these events, could potentially jeopardize their spot on a team. Again I am not 100% as to what it says during leagues or local tournaments. I have never been in a position to have to worry about that nor will I ever. But anyone that represents a countries national team probably could answer that for you.
All in all I have never been opposed to who can and can''''t bowl the USBC National Tournament. I do disagree with rules they have. The allowing of jeans and now the alcohol. I do think it puts a damper and makes our biggest event look classless now! I don''''t see the problem that for a total of 5-6 hours of bowling in 2 days that someone can''''t possible manage to wear slacks and a collared/mock shirt. Why is that so difficult to ask?! As well as waiting 3 hours to have an alcoholic beverage or any beverage at that!?
Edited on 5/24/2010 6:10 PM
Post by: On Further Review on May 24, 2010, 07:40:51 PM
quote:
I have a couple of questions that hopefully someone can answer.
Is the WTPA the governing body that would run bowling in the Olympics? Wasn't one of the reasons for the USBC forming to get all of the US bowling bodies organized into one because of the Olympics?
Bowling didn't have much of a chance to get in the Olympics anyway, but USBC allowing drinking totally eliminates any chance whatsoever.
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Post by: On Further Review on May 24, 2010, 08:00:08 PM
quote:
George, why should bowlers in the U.S. care whether WTBA sanctions the USBC (US!!!) Open Championships??????
So a few bowlers can't come from outside the U.S. to bowl?
Don't see that as a big deal ... and no slight intended at them.
Didn't some players from outside the U.S. bowl in Reno? If so, doesn't that at least indirectly involve WTBA? Has Dornberger said anything for the record about the alcohol policy?
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Post by: Balldoctor on May 24, 2010, 09:22:21 PM
As we chatted she said two teams from overseas
stayed there over the weekend and bowled at The Stadium.
One of the fellows had been to Reno 15 times.
She thought they were from Switzerland.(sp)
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Post by: On Further Review on May 24, 2010, 09:43:09 PM
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 24, 2010, 09:56:04 PM
quote:
Were any of those overseas players drinking booze? Even if Americans can drink booze, would someone from another WTBA zone be able to drink?
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."
That is a moot question. They should not even be there. So if they are, and have a drink, what violation takes precedence. Bowling in a non-sanctioned event, or having a beer while doing it. This whole thing is a farce, IMO
Post by: Yanker on May 25, 2010, 08:13:55 AM
Not sure what to think about the numbers coming from there either..people averaging 230 and up...but that's another topic...
Riggs, I disagree with you, this is the USBC "Open", and I believe its for all USBC members. As long as International Players, who have not established a USBC average, bowl scratch, I have no problem with them competing.
Post by: riggs on May 25, 2010, 09:30:10 AM
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Post by: riggs on May 25, 2010, 09:31:48 AM
--------------------
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Post by: riggs on May 25, 2010, 09:33:25 AM
"USBC has to be sanctioned with the WTBA if we want our country to participate in any country events. Mens/Womans/Youth World Championships, plus others that countries get together and compete in."
The USBC OCs has nothing directly to do with qualifying for the U.S. Team, unlike the Team Trials and PBA Tour.
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Post by: riggs on May 25, 2010, 09:36:47 AM
Now onto your local association stuff. I believe the WTBA rules(not 100% sure) says that during no tournament may you drink alcohol or smoke during a squad. So the way I read it if a bowler representing a team of any country is bowling in one of these events, could potentially jeopardize their spot on a team. Again I am not 100% as to what it says during leagues or local tournaments. I have never been in a position to have to worry about that nor will I ever. But anyone that represents a countries national team probably could answer that for you.
So are you telling me that it's possible that anyone who bowls on a national team never better have a beer during a fun league that is certified. This is the most absurd rule ever and probably would DQ most of the U.S. team members over the years. I drink only water at the USBC OCs (including this year) and obviously during PBA events, but we drink at our state and city tournaments (house conditions and more for social because of that) and in league.
This is a ridiculous rule if it includes all certified tourneys and leagues.
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Post by: Hornetajc on May 25, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
If you want this to be an "elite" competition, then raise the entry fee and reduce the participation of this event. Oh, and re-oil the lanes after EVERY squad! Sorry folks, this isn't intended to be Olympic competition, but rather a reward for participation.
Post by: On Further Review on May 25, 2010, 02:16:37 PM
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Post by: Mvpbowler on May 25, 2010, 04:08:55 PM
The sick part is back when I was a Junior bowler, the first 3 years of JOG (it was called then). We have people from Canada and Puerto Rico coming over to bowl, yet they never participated a day in a YABA league at that time. They can't be on Jr. Team USA obviously, YET they were allowed to bowl Junior Olympic Gold (which we all know was to determine Jr. Team USA). Please tell me how much sense that made!
Also about the local stuff, I did say I was not 100% sure about the ruling on that one. I have no reason to know as I will never be a part of a national team.
Also the USBC has to be sanctioned by the WTBA in order for our national teams to compete in the Mens Worlds, Womens World, and Youth World tournaments. That is what I was saying there.
I don't understand why you would want to limit the field in a tournament like this. Someone like yourself that has had HUGE success in this tournament should want entries. Just means more in the prize fund for you at the end of the tournament. You should always want entries into any tournament no matter who it is. I just don't understand that.
Hornetajc, it was only as of about 5-6 years ago?! I am not totally sure on that one either that they started allowing jeans. So this tournament is over 100 years old and now all the sudden we start allowing jeans?! WHY?! We dealt with it for the first 90 or so years players having to wear dress pants. Why can't we keep that tradition? Are you going to tell me people aren't going to travel to this tournament each year because they can't wear jeans or are being told they have to wear slacks?! I don't think so. I am pretty sure if they are on vacation they are going no matter what as you just said.
On Further Review, I believe Kevin stepped down as CEO of USBC. As to when his term is up with WTBA I am not to sure about that.
Post by: On Further Review on May 25, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
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Post by: r534me on May 25, 2010, 08:52:48 PM
quote:
Riggs, the USBC Masters is only considered a title IF and only IF your a PBA member. If your bowling as an amateur you do not get the title, exemption, nor the entry to the TOC. At least I am pretty sure Brett Wolfe didn''t get it back in 2003 when he won his. I wasn''t comparing the PBA level of competition to USBC OC. It was to state the fact that it is a USBC event and you feel that unless you bowl a league you shouldn''t be allowed in a USBC event. Example the USBC Masters.
The sick part is back when I was a Junior bowler, the first 3 years of JOG (it was called then). We have people from Canada and Puerto Rico coming over to bowl, yet they never participated a day in a YABA league at that time. They can''t be on Jr. Team USA obviously, YET they were allowed to bowl Junior Olympic Gold (which we all know was to determine Jr. Team USA). Please tell me how much sense that made!
Also about the local stuff, I did say I was not 100% sure about the ruling on that one. I have no reason to know as I will never be a part of a national team.
Also the USBC has to be sanctioned by the WTBA in order for our national teams to compete in the Mens Worlds, Womens World, and Youth World tournaments. That is what I was saying there.
I don''t understand why you would want to limit the field in a tournament like this. Someone like yourself that has had HUGE success in this tournament should want entries. Just means more in the prize fund for you at the end of the tournament. You should always want entries into any tournament no matter who it is. I just don''t understand that.
Hornetajc, it was only as of about 5-6 years ago?! I am not totally sure on that one either that they started allowing jeans. So this tournament is over 100 years old and now all the sudden we start allowing jeans?! WHY?! We dealt with it for the first 90 or so years players having to wear dress pants. Why can''t we keep that tradition? Are you going to tell me people aren''t going to travel to this tournament each year because they can''t wear jeans or are being told they have to wear slacks?! I don''t think so. I am pretty sure if they are on vacation they are going no matter what as you just said.
On Further Review, I believe Kevin stepped down as CEO of USBC. As to when his term is up with WTBA I am not to sure about that.
Brett Wolfe won in 2002 not 2003 and the exempt tour was not around yet. I don''t know if he could or could not have received a title by joining the PBA. My guess is that he could have and have it count as a title.
I read the newsletter and it stated that only bowlers from this zone could bowl the Nationals. My interpretation is that Team USA members can bowl it and not have it affected their eligibility in the tournaments you mentioned.
"With reference to WTBA Playing Rules 3.7.5 c we have to inform you that the ongoing tournament USBC Open Championship is not approved by WTBA because USBC has chosen not to apply for WTBA approval.
This means that no players from another zone than the American zone (PABCON) are allowed to participate. This is stated in WTBA Playing rules Chapter 3
A tournament cannot be open for players from more than the Zone, where the tournament takes place, unless WTBA approval is given".
Edited on 5/25/2010 8:54 PM
Post by: riggs on May 26, 2010, 07:05:36 AM
My point in this debate is that there is no way some organization from outside the U.S. has any business telling the USBC what rules it can and cannot have with a tournament (the Open Championships) that has nothing directly to do with qualifying for Team USA. (Yes I know you can -- or once could -- pay $10 or whatever to win a spot in the Team Trials but that has been or can be eliminated.)
USBC OC essentially is the national tournament for league bowlers. Period.
USBC is practically bankrupt and put the drinking rule in to raise $$$. In a perfect world, I would not support that rule. But it's not a perfect world and if some average league bowler wants to have a couple beers, it has zero impact on my team competing for an eagle ... the money raised is a trade-off I support because it's better than higher entry fees and/or lower entries.
If that rule means a very few foreign players can't compete well that's 2BAD. The $$ raised is more important than that.
WTBA can f-off and quit meddling in the internal affairs of our country.
The international organizations kept bowling from being an open competition sport until just a couple of years ago when every other sport in the Olympics or with Olympics aspirations had opened up in last century.
I have no use for such people who now are trying to tell our USBC what to do.
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Post by: riggs on May 26, 2010, 07:08:08 AM
For the benefit of league bowling numbers, I believe a person should have to be a USBC member AND bowl a minimum number of games in a certified league to be eligible for the USBC OC. That means NO unattached memberships.
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Post by: riggs on May 26, 2010, 10:04:54 AM
"Based on the structure of the Open Championships as a USBC members only event, USBC’s interpretation of the WTBA statutes is that WTBA certification is not required. An appeal of the WTBA rule is in process. USBC is not sure how long the appeal process will take.
USBC regrets for any inconvenience this may have caused. Any concerned international bowlers should contact USBC directly to discuss their specific circumstances."
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Post by: Doctor Doom on May 26, 2010, 10:10:04 AM
quote:
Statement by USBC's Jason Overstreet on a USBC OC thread:
"Based on the structure of the Open Championships as a USBC members only event, USBC’s interpretation of the WTBA statutes is that WTBA certification is not required. An appeal of the WTBA rule is in process. USBC is not sure how long the appeal process will take.
USBC regrets for any inconvenience this may have caused. Any concerned international bowlers should contact USBC directly to discuss their specific circumstances."
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IMO,I found that answer to be satisfactory. Let's wait and see what happens.
Post by: AngloBowler on May 26, 2010, 10:57:52 AM
quote:
"With reference to WTBA Playing Rules 3.7.5 c we have to inform you that the ongoing tournament USBC Open Championship is not approved by WTBA because USBC has chosen not to apply for WTBA approval.
This means that no players from another zone than the American zone (PABCON) are allowed to participate. This is stated in WTBA Playing rules Chapter 3
A tournament cannot be open for players from more than the Zone, where the tournament takes place, unless WTBA approval is given".
The USBC is a member of the WTBA, and, as such, must abide by their rules (or rescind their membership). That said, as long as the USBC is open only to players from the PABCON region (i.e. not asia or europe) then there's no issue. Whether you think that players from outside the Americas (who aren't league bowlers) should be allowed to play in the USBC OC, is not really the point, because they have been allowed in the past. I have an issue with the USBC choosing not to seek WTBA approval, and not making this public. What if people were planning on playing, and have already paid for airfare and hotel? If anyone from outside the PABCON region plays in the USBC OC this year, they are liable to receive sanctions from their own governing body, such as suspension of membership. Hardly fair if they haven't been given all of the information...
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Reporting from England
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 26, 2010, 11:31:04 AM
quote:quote:
"With reference to WTBA Playing Rules 3.7.5 c we have to inform you that the ongoing tournament USBC Open Championship is not approved by WTBA because USBC has chosen not to apply for WTBA approval.
This means that no players from another zone than the American zone (PABCON) are allowed to participate. This is stated in WTBA Playing rules Chapter 3
A tournament cannot be open for players from more than the Zone, where the tournament takes place, unless WTBA approval is given".
The USBC is a member of the WTBA, and, as such, must abide by their rules (or rescind their membership). That said, as long as the USBC is open only to players from the PABCON region (i.e. not asia or europe) then there's no issue. Whether you think that players from outside the Americas (who aren't league bowlers) should be allowed to play in the USBC OC, is not really the point, because they have been allowed in the past. I have an issue with the USBC choosing not to seek WTBA approval, and not making this public. What if people were planning on playing, and have already paid for airfare and hotel? If anyone from outside the PABCON region plays in the USBC OC this year, they are liable to receive sanctions from their own governing body, such as suspension of membership. Hardly fair if they haven't been given all of the information...
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Reporting from England
3.7.1 It is the responsibility of the players to
a) Make sure that the tournament has been duly approved before entering
b) Be aware of the penalties, which apply when entering in an unapproved tournament
c) Be able to show identity evidence, either in the form of a valid license card or a certifi-cation letter issued by the national federation
The above was taken right from the WTBA rule book.
Post by: Mvpbowler on May 26, 2010, 11:40:31 AM
Yet potentially a bowler could of already bowled or be coming over to bowl before this decision is made. They could bowl this event and then the WTBA deny the appeal and say that this is not a WTBA sanctioned event. Therefore costing that player potentially a suspension from their national team.
Post by: r534me on May 26, 2010, 12:06:01 PM
quote:quote:
"With reference to WTBA Playing Rules 3.7.5 c we have to inform you that the ongoing tournament USBC Open Championship is not approved by WTBA because USBC has chosen not to apply for WTBA approval.
This means that no players from another zone than the American zone (PABCON) are allowed to participate. This is stated in WTBA Playing rules Chapter 3
A tournament cannot be open for players from more than the Zone, where the tournament takes place, unless WTBA approval is given".
The USBC is a member of the WTBA, and, as such, must abide by their rules (or rescind their membership). That said, as long as the USBC is open only to players from the PABCON region (i.e. not asia or europe) then there's no issue. Whether you think that players from outside the Americas (who aren't league bowlers) should be allowed to play in the USBC OC, is not really the point, because they have been allowed in the past. I have an issue with the USBC choosing not to seek WTBA approval, and not making this public. What if people were planning on playing, and have already paid for airfare and hotel? If anyone from outside the PABCON region plays in the USBC OC this year, they are liable to receive sanctions from their own governing body, such as suspension of membership. Hardly fair if they haven't been given all of the information...
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Reporting from England
That was in response to the U.S. National team being affected. You can look at my post and see the quote.
National teams from other countries are on their own. They can stay home and take bracket money from non U.S. bowlers for a change.
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 26, 2010, 12:07:55 PM
quote:
So the USBC is appealing this decision to the WTBA. They are awaiting further word.
Yet potentially a bowler could of already bowled or be coming over to bowl before this decision is made. They could bowl this event and then the WTBA deny the appeal and say that this is not a WTBA sanctioned event. Therefore costing that player potentially a suspension from their national team.
When in doubt, read 3.7.1, section A. It is very self explanatory.
Post by: EagleHunter on May 26, 2010, 12:37:59 PM
I attempted to post a reply to Jason Overstreet's post...not sure if it will make it past the mod.
To paraphrase my post...I asked for further clarification of USBC's official position. While the USBC OC is a "member only" event, ANY individual can become a member simply by purchasing a membership on the spot. In addition, the USBC Masters and Queens are "member only" events, yet are still approved by the WTBA...and yet again, a membership can be purchased on the spot.
While it appears that there official response is okay, it does seem lacking in many ways.
Post by: riggs on May 26, 2010, 12:38:49 PM
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The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 26, 2010, 12:43:26 PM
quote:
One would hope that the folks at WTBA would exercise discretion for foreigners who were caught up in this ... especially considering that USBC did not announce alcohol decision until a few days before tourney.
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The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
However Riggs. The WTBA was aware of USBC not sanctioning the Open, well in advance of the opening date.
Post by: On Further Review on May 26, 2010, 05:47:44 PM
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."
Post by: r534me on May 26, 2010, 06:20:37 PM
Post by: someguyintucson on May 26, 2010, 06:38:08 PM
quote:
Does anyone know why the USBC tournament was not sanctioned by WTBA? Has WTBA sanctioned the USBC tournament in previous years?
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."
Did you not read the thread before you posted this?
Post by: Doctor Doom on May 27, 2010, 08:15:40 AM
quote:quote:
Does anyone know why the USBC tournament was not sanctioned by WTBA? Has WTBA sanctioned the USBC tournament in previous years?
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."
Did you not read the thread before you posted this?
I think it has to do with that "beer" you bought me in Reno.
Post by: On Further Review on May 28, 2010, 09:37:28 AM
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."