BallReviews

General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: n00dlejester on April 18, 2019, 08:43:03 AM

Title: Loads of Surface?
Post by: n00dlejester on April 18, 2019, 08:43:03 AM
Hey BR Gang, for those that went to Nationals, how much surface are we using for Teams and S/D? I'm curious to which Abralon pads I'll have to buy :D
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: jman76 on April 18, 2019, 09:11:08 AM
I started team with factory finish on my Hammer Flawless and then switched to my Hammer Black/Gold Black Widow with factory finish. For S/D I used my Track Alias at 500. Everyone in my group for S/D was using a lot of surface. Hope this helps a little!
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: Gene J Kanak on April 18, 2019, 09:27:57 AM
From what I've been told, it isn't really necessary to use a lot of surface to carve a spot during team. The guys our group has talked with say there is already a natural hook spot to throw to on that pattern.

In minors, on the other hand, we've been told that it's very important to use surface to the right to try to open things up. Obviously, as that pattern is longer and needs to hold up for six games rather than three, that all makes perfect sense.

That being said, we've taken different approaches to surface over the years. Generally speaking, when trying to carve, I may put a light 500 or a steady 1000 grit on a ball. You always have to be careful with going too gritty as you don't want to completely blow the heads up! Mos of the time, we will throw 500-1000 during practice and then use balls in the 1000-3000 range to actually start trying to knock them down.

The interesting thing this year is that when I've watched the highlights of the honor scores and leaders, a lot of the balls have looked kind of shiny. It's hard to tell if they actually are or they just appear that way due to the lighting. My group bowls a week from Saturday and Sunday, so I guess we'll find out!
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: n00dlejester on April 18, 2019, 09:29:12 AM
Great info! Thank you for this.
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: tritonj on April 18, 2019, 06:20:55 PM
was doing fine with balls in the 2000 range and stuff that had some lane shine on it,  definitely want stuff that is very even in reaction that you can keep in front of you,  in S/D the lanes will open up by the end of the block so be ready to move when the time comes.  for what its worth the crux prime at OOB finish with about 10 games on it was money in S/D
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: michael.willis9 on April 19, 2019, 08:26:12 AM
ive bowled on last years team twice and d/s 3 times now, need surface and lots of it for D/S but can work with shiny for team.

We've been using the 2018 patterns for my sport shot league
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: Steven on April 19, 2019, 10:52:38 AM
From what I've been told, it isn't really necessary to use a lot of surface to carve a spot during team. The guys our group has talked with say there is already a natural hook spot to throw to on that pattern.

In minors, on the other hand, we've been told that it's very important to use surface to the right to try to open things up. Obviously, as that pattern is longer and needs to hold up for six games rather than three, that all makes perfect sense.



The above pretty much nails it.


Just got back from Nationals. On Team, I didn't need anything beyond an aggressive pearl. There is a spot closer to the gutter (2-4 board) where there is a nice hook spot to take advantage of. Too many bowlers were trying to play further in and getting hammered by the hook in the middle of the lane.


On Doubles/Team, you definitively need more surface. The mistake I made was trying to break down the outside. I didn't have enough help, and a dependable shot never developed. I finally moved in during singles and found a nice tighter line between the second and third arrows. There was enough hold where I didn't feel the need to get too deep. But it was too little, too late to save me. I should have made that move much sooner.  ???
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: michael.willis9 on April 19, 2019, 01:28:44 PM


On Doubles/Team, you definitively need more surface. The mistake I made was trying to break down the outside. I didn't have enough help, and a dependable shot never developed. I finally moved in during singles and found a nice tighter line between the second and third arrows. There was enough hold where I didn't feel the need to get too deep. But it was too little, too late to save me. I should have made that move much sooner.  ???

bingo, i don't quite understand why doubles/singles has a harder lane to break down,  but its a longer pattern.  and unless you got the revs of a  two hander, not a lot of  reason to be outside.

I don't think there's too much difference between the 2018 and 2019 pattern,  i use my pearls on team and solids with surface on d/s
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: SVstar34 on April 19, 2019, 06:25:55 PM
Just finished with team a couple hours ago. There's plenty of hook for team. I threw my Melee Cross at 2000 for the first 2 games and made a switch to shiny for game 3 and balled up to my Kingpin Gold, but it wasn't the right move. Went down to my Tag Cannon and bailed out a terrible game 3.

Luckily made a decent amount in brackets so I'll take that and look forward to D/S tomorrow at 7am
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: DP3 on April 19, 2019, 06:41:30 PM
Great job SV Star. I bowl a 7AM 6 game block in a few weeks. I'm interested to hear your report.  Last year in S/D everyone on my pair was playing a different line with all types of OOB finish balls. They weren't experienced players so nothing really opened up. I think I went -175 on day 2 throwing a 1000 grit Legion Solid the whole day an couldn't get the ball to move until game 5.
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: BowlingForDonuts on April 19, 2019, 07:10:47 PM
Just finished with team a couple hours ago. There's plenty of hook for team. I threw my Melee Cross at 2000 for the first 2 games and made a switch to shiny for game 3 and balled up to my Kingpin Gold, but it wasn't the right move. Went down to my Tag Cannon and bailed out a terrible game 3.

Luckily made a decent amount in brackets so I'll take that and look forward to D/S tomorrow at 7am

Gratz man.  Good luck tomorrow.  Great to hear from some of the crazy good bowlers on here talking about navigating nightmare conditions (to me anyway).  Great to learn from.
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: Good Times Good Times on April 19, 2019, 07:27:34 PM
Just finished with team a couple hours ago. There's plenty of hook for team. I threw my Melee Cross at 2000 for the first 2 games and made a switch to shiny for game 3 and balled up to my Kingpin Gold, but it wasn't the right move. Went down to my Tag Cannon and bailed out a terrible game 3.

Luckily made a decent amount in brackets so I'll take that and look forward to D/S tomorrow at 7am

Hit弾m hard tomorrow!
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: SVstar34 on April 20, 2019, 09:23:38 PM
Well after feeling like I threw the ball pretty well in team just didn't quite get the results, I threw the ball like crap for doubles and made the wrong ball change for the first game of singles. Did end on a good note though going 20 clean 215-232 to finish with 610 for singles.

D/S pattern ended up being pretty similar to team for me, just more oil and maybe 1-2 ft longer. I used my Absolute Nirvana for doubles that I hit with 1000 by hand before practice. I wish I would have had a strong symmetrical solid (Method Solid, Idol, Phase 2) for Doubles. It's just a reaction I don't have right now since I made some grip changes. Switched to my Tag Cannon for singles but it ended up being too over/under. Kingpin Gold ended up working great for singles playing tighter and continuing to move left. I finished sliding about 30 and 13 as breakpoint with a couple boards of room.



For those who are pretty well matched rev rate to ball speed, I'd recommend

Team - slower response mid level ball (Intel Solid, IQ Tour, Venom Shock, etc @2000) + mid level shiny ball

D/S - strong symmetrical @1000-2000 + something shiny. If you're with people who can break it down in D/S then I'd say almost any mid level ball. If not, then something a little stronger like Halo Pearl, Conspiracy Pearl, etc
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: BallReviews-Removed0385 on April 21, 2019, 07:48:28 AM

Thanks for the reports. Let's keep them coming for our BR community as they prepare.

Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: themagician on April 21, 2019, 09:43:01 AM
Well after feeling like I threw the ball pretty well in team just didn't quite get the results, I threw the ball like crap for doubles and made the wrong ball change for the first game of singles. Did end on a good note though going 20 clean 215-232 to finish with 610 for singles.

D/S pattern ended up being pretty similar to team for me, just more oil and maybe 1-2 ft longer. I used my Absolute Nirvana for doubles that I hit with 1000 by hand before practice. I wish I would have had a strong symmetrical solid (Method Solid, Idol, Phase 2) for Doubles. It's just a reaction I don't have right now since I made some grip changes. Switched to my Tag Cannon for singles but it ended up being too over/under. Kingpin Gold ended up working great for singles playing tighter and continuing to move left. I finished sliding about 30 and 13 as breakpoint with a couple boards of room.



For those who are pretty well matched rev rate to ball speed, I'd recommend

Team - slower response mid level ball (Intel Solid, IQ Tour, Venom Shock, etc @2000) + mid level shiny ball

D/S - strong symmetrical @1000-2000 + something shiny. If you're with people who can break it down in D/S then I'd say almost any mid level ball. If not, then something a little stronger like Halo Pearl, Conspiracy Pearl, etc

I completely agree with everything you mentioned in here. I bowled the second weekend of the tournament and felt team played very similar to last year, tons of hook, really don't want much surface, saw a lot of people hit them big with shiny assym pearls, (Golden Jackal, Conspiracy Pearl stood out).

D/S felt like last years, but didn't blow up as fast, quite a bit of volume and probably 41-42 ft in length. Strong solid balls with 1000-2000 to start playing pretty direct outside of 10 looked very good to start, right up 5 is in play then chase inside and grab a strong pearl with a tad bit of surface and you'll be in good shape.

Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: Geigs on April 29, 2019, 10:11:16 PM
Anyone use or see anyone having success this year using strong urethanes, say purple hammer, fever pitch? I知 on the fence with bringing a urethane.
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: SVstar34 on April 29, 2019, 11:42:01 PM
Anyone use or see anyone having success this year using strong urethanes, say purple hammer, fever pitch? I知 on the fence with bringing a urethane.

Craig Tuholski a former PBA guy was using a purple hammer during doubles and singles a few pairs down from me. He made it work pretty well shooting 730ish in doubles, I didn't see his singles score as they were the last pair done
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: tritonj on April 30, 2019, 07:32:20 PM
Anyone use or see anyone having success this year using strong urethanes, say purple hammer, fever pitch? I知 on the fence with bringing a urethane.

Craig Tuholski a former PBA guy was using a purple hammer during doubles and singles a few pairs down from me. He made it work pretty well shooting 730ish in doubles, I didn't see his singles score as they were the last pair done

to be fair as a PBA guy he could probably role a cube shaped ball down the lane and make it look good.
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: SVstar34 on April 30, 2019, 08:09:20 PM
Anyone use or see anyone having success this year using strong urethanes, say purple hammer, fever pitch? I知 on the fence with bringing a urethane.

Craig Tuholski a former PBA guy was using a purple hammer during doubles and singles a few pairs down from me. He made it work pretty well shooting 730ish in doubles, I didn't see his singles score as they were the last pair done

to be fair as a PBA guy he could probably role a cube shaped ball down the lane and make it look good.

That is true which is why I mentioned it. They were painfully slow
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: Geigs on April 30, 2019, 08:12:21 PM
Great point. I知 not accurate enough, nor repetitive enough with my release to use urethane on a tough usbc national pattern. A lot of you are saying symmetrical pearls are working for team cause of all the hook. I may throw an ebonite affinity pearl pin down in my bag instead of urethane. Ball is smooth, but still real clean. Similar motion to my iq tour, only a little cleaner, with a couple boards less overall hook.
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: Dave81644 on April 30, 2019, 10:06:39 PM
Just got back as well.
For team, the key (IMHO) is slower response covers, which for me was the Web Tour with about 2000 on it.
I think urethane is in play, but your going to have unhappy teammates unless you are in a different zone. Rev rate with urethane helps, if not, you may not get it to carry
For minors, 500 grit 1' pin-axis symmetric
Then switched to Statement Pearl at 2000
No matter what ball you end up with, you need to make really good shots every frame.
Most important piece in the bag is your spare ball.
go to the booth with your equipment, get their advice on what they think will work and what surfaces.
This was advice I chose to follow and it gave me the shapes I was looking for.
These guys at the Hammer booth know what types of equipment is working and what surfaces to use.
Did the same thing before minors and they were spot on for both events in my case.
I watched multiple squads prior to get an idea and did the BJ and practice lanes.
the practice session was worthless
the BJ I got some value from, did not use much if any surface and played straight up the boards, you need to be able to be soft or the ball will not read. I did not use the BJ to try and score, just me though.

just my .02$
Title: Re: Loads of Surface?
Post by: Geigs on May 01, 2019, 02:21:14 PM
Great info Dave, thanks.  :)