Post by: triggerman on May 05, 2011, 10:44:46 PM
lets see this will be my 4th or 5th trip to the stadium now, and Ive always played the team event with a small swing (of course I never score well out there) typically playing 12-9 or so, but being as inconsistent as I am i leave a lot of washouts and splits making for a long day) Anyway long story short, we have been putting the shot out at my home house, we use a different oil so I know the stadium will play a bit slicker, but not a lot, we have the same lane surface and same machine, just different oil. anyway the 12-9 shot is there, like I figured it would be, last night tho I experimented with a pearl ball up 7 to see what was there, I liked the reaction and carry I got,
Has anyone thats been there played this area or watched others play this area, I know the curretn AE leader was up 5 ive been told, but anyone here have any real experience out there. My pearl cherry bomb looked really good out there, and after we had the lane pretty well chewed up I switched to a quantum helix and liked it just as much
Input?
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Chris Trigg
Bowling Explosion Pro Shop
Inside Wayne Recreation bowling alley
Fort Wayne Indiana
Post by: Sikfish on May 06, 2011, 08:27:24 AM
Trigg, the current leader is nowhere near "up 5"...I believe there is a video up of Matt now.
I saw a shot there but never held up more than 5 frames on the fresh. I suppose you maybe able to play there if the right group is in front of you in minors. In team I went with a pin down, 2000ab PRIMAL and had good look 15 to 9 and then parallel moves in from that...never switched balls as the extra volume up front let the ball I was using to continue to clear the heads well......Minors, started with a pin up, 2000ab+ polish PRIMAL and had a nice reaction 17 to 11 (had room out to 9). Once that went, switched to a pin up, 4000ab+ polish SR2 and stayed put in singles at 21 to 10-13....hopes this helps alittle....shot nothing big 592, 597, 591.....1780.....carry was a little tough this year for me.....GOOD LUCK!
Post by: triggerman on May 06, 2011, 08:48:24 AM
thanks for the input, Ive been throwing a lot of games on our version of the shot, and it tends to break down and react like I would expect, playing around last night like I said I found a very nice line up 7 with my pearl cherry bomb, after the guy I was practicing with had shot 4 games on that pair, I shot 4 more up 7
the lane I started on I threw 5-6 games we switched he shot about 4 and then we switched back, I tried the pearl cherry bomb on same line and it was thru the 4 pin (which tells me the lane broke down like it should have after about 1 full game of team) when i switched to the helix it took the pattern out and reacted nice, thus my interest in this line
I am always that 12-9 area to start and move left as it goes,
thinking of taking
lane 1 blackfire
lane 1 pearl cherry bomb
battle zone missle
helix
plastic
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Chris Trigg
Bowling Explosion Pro Shop
Inside Wayne Recreation bowling alley
Fort Wayne Indiana
Edited by triggerman on 5/6/2011 at 8:50 AM
Post by: Sikfish on May 06, 2011, 09:15:22 AM
Post by: on May 06, 2011, 03:55:00 PM
I stayed away from that far outside. All I saw were washouts, regardless of rev rate, too. No doubt someone with slower speed with great accuracy might make it work, but the risk vs. reward did not look worth it.
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: mrteach3 on May 06, 2011, 05:45:18 PM
triggerman,
i just had the shot put out at my home house as well last night. i was actually a bit surprised the outside played as "easy" as it did. just like you, there is different oil used at this house. seriously though, how different can it be??? my best success was actually 10 - 7, but also had some success a lot deeper around 20 - 15. i am going to get the shot put out another 3 or 4 times before i got to Nationals, so i will have more to say later.
Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!
Post by: r534me on May 08, 2011, 01:13:25 AM
At the stadium, outside of 5 or so is deadly. If you are pretty accurate you might be able ot play up 7. With what ball, I could not tell you. I can tell you that the bowlers scoring well on the right side are inside. You can check out the USBC channel at ustream.tv and watch some team and d/s action. The majority of the rightys are playing inside.
If you are left hand you might be able to play out but you will need a lot of hand to do that. I speak from experience because I bowled at the stadium this week and I saw some guys who played outside and they all had super revs.
Post by: ericfox4 on May 08, 2011, 05:32:05 AM
Post by: Russell on May 08, 2011, 08:03:44 AM
I have to question what you guys that say the shot is nowher near 7 on the fresh were shooting. I had a great look up 8/9 with a Hyroad as long as I was nice to it at the bottom of the swing, and threw it horrible for 612 in team. I do agree the shot wasn't there long, as I had to start chasing it in by the end of the first game, but while it was there it was a solid look. I haven't seen anyone really do well on the fresh starting out playing in. Sure you can strike from anywhere...but what happens if you miss?
I don't know of anyone striking who is more than a couple of boards left of the track starting out. Sure there are guys playing 5th arrow in minors (I was one of them), but on team the best look is around the track and then moving in from there.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: on May 08, 2011, 11:30:16 AM
There will always be somoene playing outside and making it work, and there will always be those playing further in and making it work. IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE BOWLER, AND IF HE'S MATCHING UP EQUIPMENT WISE.
On team event for me (playing around 13-15 at the arrows) my problem on every bad shot was too much hook. As the tournament progressed I went to weaker stuff and was able to stay in that general area. I had a great look, and all my splits were due to bowler error (imagine that).
This may be a question of semantics because most league bowlers think of the track area being further outside than 15. At Nationals it tends to move inward a bit so the ball does not need to cross as many boards late.
Just don't put too much stock into practicing on "the shot" at home except that it will force you to make better shots than the THS. I try it every year, and the actual tournament shot always plays differently. Best of luck to all who have yet to bowl. I had a great time.
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Edited by notclay on 5/8/2011 at 2:16 PM
Post by: Russell on May 08, 2011, 11:34:09 AM
I just haven't read anyone say "I had a look on the fresh playing (left of track)" who shot more than 170 the first game in team event. It seems like a lot of guys play there, but the ones that score play much closer to the track on the fresh. Yes eventually the shot moves in, but on the fresh there just isn't much inside unless you are a truly soft power player.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: JustRico on May 08, 2011, 11:38:04 AM
The difference this year, than past years is the volume is lighter in the track area (10-15) and more oil in the front 15-20'.
Years past you wanted to use surface (1000 grit or so) and burn a hook area around 6-7-8. Then you got everyone around 10 area, some friction right and chase it from there.
This year with lower volume and more in the fronts, some teams are using shinier or even plastic for a few shots of practice throwing it around 15 to create some push, carrydown or hold area early so you can stay closer to 10 and have some bounce or friction around 7-8-9.
Most success has come using balls with surface around a smooth 2000 with pin down balls, as well as hole downs the VAL area. This gets the ball to be smoother responsive wise front to back and making moves easier. You do not want balls that have a tendency to be quicker in response or more angular. This can force you create steeper angles thus sacrificing carry.
There is enough volume in the fronts, that even when the shots starts to 'breakdown' you can still stay with 2000 grit balls, as well as pin down/hole down...just going to smoother or weaker balls.
If you can break them down correctly, they can turn into a house shot type look. Thus the scores are pretty good.
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: r534me on May 08, 2011, 10:48:16 PM
Agreed, home shots are there just to make one tighten up the shot making. We broke down the left side at home and the shot turned into a house shot. Actually, even on a pair we didn't break down, I was able to roll my TB up 7 and strike. At the stadium that ball did not react the same. One caveat, we were using lanes with softer surfaces than the stadium lanes.
Post by: triggerman on May 09, 2011, 05:31:33 AM
well we go next week so it will be interesting, our house has the same lanes, same machine but different oil like I said earlier, Ive seen good looks up 8 with a smooth rolling pearl, seen good looks 12-8 with a decent solid, and had great looks in deeper when they break, (lets just say Ive been throwing a ton of different lines at this point, looking for a comfort spot) none of my stuff other then the VE are snappy, most roll up smooth and retain energy pretty darn good,
last year I thought the backs were soft, and now I am hearing mixed on the firmness of this years backends, what are the thoughts of those that have been there of a stronger backend vs the last two years
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Chris Trigg
Bowling Explosion Pro Shop
Inside Wayne Recreation bowling alley
Fort Wayne Indiana
Post by: on May 09, 2011, 06:42:31 AM
Triggerman,
Keep practicing the various lines to the pocket on the shot you have. That will be your best preparation and will help you immensely.
Outside may work with slower speed, but as I watched a few teams next to me with decent speed and plenty of revs, they left lots of washouts. No doubt that there will be someone who will make it work. There always is. Good luck to you next week.
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: r534me on May 09, 2011, 07:02:41 AM
To add to the discussion, it's not possible for your home lanes to duplicate the reaction even if the lanes have the same surface. There are just too many variables. In the stadium itself, the lanes do not play the same from pair to pair. As notclay has mentioned, and I agree with, keep playing as many lines as you can. And the most important thing is to be flexible. If the shot is not there, it's not there.
Post by: triggerman on May 09, 2011, 07:15:46 AM
I wholeheartedly agree, I am using ours as practice for hitting my mark and controling speed and my break point, understanding what each ball will do on this pattern (our shot) will allow me some level of confidence in my stuff, if the lane conditions are slicker then I see at home I will welcome that, ours is still slick but I could use the extra 2 feet of push to be honest, this is my 8-9th trip so the softer hand not grabbing it at the bottom is becoming old hat at this point, but I hate to practice and then be completely off base when I get there, let alone I dont want to lug 8-10 balls to reno
got this week and part of next week to throw on the pattern, plus we are shooting on some pba patterns this week as well, learning to stay within my game will be the biggest lesson
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Chris Trigg
Bowling Explosion Pro Shop
Inside Wayne Recreation bowling alley
Fort Wayne Indiana
Post by: r534me on May 09, 2011, 07:23:53 AM
It sounds like you have a solid plan. Good luck out there, and remember it's only a game! 
Post by: mrteach3 on May 09, 2011, 12:20:07 PM
Some good suggestions and advice out there. I put the shot down again on a different pair this time, and didn't have quite the "easiness" as I had the first time playing out. It was still very playable, but it was tighter than the other pair I practiced on.
The interesting part this time that was the same was playing in further, around 18 - 20 to about 12 at the breakpoint. I had to get to that point, but had nothing as I started move in from my original 10 - 7. It was washout and 2 - 10 city until I got to about 18 - 20 and then I got consistent reaction off the back of the pattern. It was as if the track(anywhere from 12 to 16 at the arrows), was a "no-no" place to play. I was using a 2.5, 4.5, Damage, and Ransom while practicing. I did use my Alpha Max, but that gave me the worst reads no matter where I tried to throw it.
So far, I am getting my best results from the 2.5, 4.5, and Damage. They look like the ball to take so far. I have a few others I am going to try next week. We will see. I don't go until June 20 and 21, so I have some time to play around with angles and lines before I go.
Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on May 09, 2011, 12:53:56 PM
Return with your shield or on it. Strength and honor. Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. MTIXE
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
Post by: triggerman on May 09, 2011, 01:06:41 PM
I cant bring myself to play the twig, just not that good lol, gonna be throwing another 10-12 games tomorrow and some on thursday, later this week I am going to try and put a whole team on a pair and see what it breaks down like
thankful for the info guys, this helps not only me but a score of others out there. Im trying to go in a bit more prepared then in years past, short of Billings and Vegas I've never shot good, hoping to right that ship this year
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Chris Trigg
Bowling Explosion Pro Shop
Inside Wayne Recreation bowling alley
Fort Wayne Indiana
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on May 09, 2011, 01:11:42 PM
Return with your shield or on it. Strength and honor. Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. MTIXE
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
Post by: r534me on May 09, 2011, 03:05:26 PM
Post by: triggerman on May 10, 2011, 01:07:40 PM
I guess I should clarify, outside for me is up the 8 board lol, i dont venture outside the 5 very often, typically on house shots that is an over under nightmare for me so for me a 9-7 swing is considered up the boards pretty much to the best of my limited ability
we can tho break the lanes down just like we would at the stadium, unfortunately its tough to say whethers its an accurate protrayal of the lanes or not. My goal is to understand what is happening and hopefully being able to anticipate that move to avoid that washout that seems to doom most everyone at some point. us putting the shot out at home hopefully will help my team develope our plan of attack on lane play. I am sure while we are playing on Cheetah tomorrow we will discuss how we want to try and line up our various styles to benefit each other
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Chris Trigg
Bowling Explosion Pro Shop
Inside Wayne Recreation bowling alley
Fort Wayne Indiana
Post by: r534me on May 10, 2011, 11:26:29 PM
Visit the 123 or BJ tournaments before you bowl if you want a tune up. I bowled the 123 and the nationals and the 123 is not the same but if you miss outside it will still hang and leave you something ugly.
It's not practice in a sense because you paid $50 and you could win $$...oh and you keep score!
If this helps, in singles, I threw my natural up 9 on the left side and I stuck on a light hit. Keep in mind that since I am on the left virutally everytime I bowl it's on the fresh. This year was no exception. My minors squad did not have anyone on the pairs before I bowled on them. On the singles squad, there was a lone lefty senior rolling a pearlized ball of some sort.
Post by: Brunswick_fan_BrandonH on May 11, 2011, 09:37:56 AM
I just got back yesterday, and bowled Sunday afternoon for team and Monday morning, 2nd squad, for singles and doubles. There is more than enough friction on the lanes this year for both events. I had the wrong balls with me, and didn't score well. I would suggest something with a controlled drilling that has a smoother reaction on the backend, a solid cover ball with some surface would be good. The lane is giving everyone the skid / snap reaction due to the oil layout. Also, the singles and doubles seemed to have a litte more friction to start even though it was the 2nd squad for the day. I would suggest playing the track area to start and keep migrating deeper for the team event keeping the breakpoint around 7 -10. That is just my 2 cents.
Brunswick Advisory Staff
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation
Post by: Strapper_Squared on May 12, 2011, 07:50:06 PM
I just returned from bowling last weeked. We had the "luck" of getting fresh oil for singles/doubles on the 7 am squad (or is that "luck" of getting the 7 am squad???) From the beginning, I had in my mind that I was playing outside. Started team event up 7-8 and had what appeared to be a reasonable shot... but had absolutely no miss room (either speed, revs, or boards on the lane). I would throw a couple nice shots that struck, then throw another seemingly very good shot and it would absolutely sail. Played out as far as 5 and in as deep at 12-13 with a little swing. Thinking it was me, or the equipment, or whatever, I beat myself up playing that area for 8 games. I don't think I threw more than a double the entire time. The last game of singles, I decided to move inside. Played 20 at the arrows out to the dark strip on 10. Went from zero area to 5-6 boards area (which is typically more than I have on a house shot). Outside of two real bad tugs, I didn't miss that game. Shot 252... which was about 75+ better than any previous game.
Good luck!
S^2
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Post by: shipper50 on May 22, 2011, 05:00:56 AM
Since I read your out there bowling, I would be interested in what you used and how you bowled and what you thought of the shot?
I have read many times that the shot was easier? I guess it would depend on the ball and who you followed for sure this year. I know it was my lowest singles in 5 Nationals.
Shipper