Post by: riggs on June 07, 2011, 06:21:50 AM
How about a rotation of Orlando, Reno and a variable city?
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Post by: sevenpin63 on June 07, 2011, 02:31:28 PM
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: dw23 on June 07, 2011, 03:25:10 PM
A Reno, Orlando and Texas/Baton Rouge/New Mexico/Las Vegas cycle for the tournament would be cool with me. All of these sites offer either convenience or low cost and seem to be willing to host the tournament which I think is the one of the most important factors so the USBC doesn't lose money.
DW
Post by: Tex on June 07, 2011, 08:56:00 PM
I think the Orlando deal is likely dead. I can't see any reason for it to be built in these economic conditions. That is also no cheap trip if you fly there and forget the costs to Disney and surrounding hotels. I would love to go there once, but not every three years. I really hope we don't end up in a long string of Reno trips,but wouldn't surprise me. I figure at best we are looking at Reno every other year with the ladies in an opposite rotation so one of us is there every year. Hoping they could find another location every other year, but who knows. Personally I would like to go back to Syracuse, but only to go eat at Dinosaurs BBQ and might as well bowl a little while we are there. Surprised Corpus Christi has not bid again.
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Post by: Bowl_Freak on June 07, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
I really dont like Reno and the fact i cant find a decent price for a flight there directly. I have to make two stops, change planes, and then im there. Its just an inconvienence to go there. Went last year and that will be my last year flying to Reno. Baton Rouge next year will be a plus, i can drive. I like to see new places and always being in Reno sucks. Id like to see an East, Midwest, West rotation but not always in the same cities.
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Post by: batbowler on June 07, 2011, 09:42:29 PM
Entries were down this year for Reno and I think people are getting tried of going there! I think the every third year was more than enough and now they are killing us with Reno!!! Flights are a pain, airlines are a pain to deal with, and Harrah's is getting hard to deal with!!!! I stayed at Harrah's twice, my first and last time!!!!
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Post by: dballz on June 08, 2011, 06:35:54 AM
i would go for that rotation. i like dw23's thoughts on the places for the 3rd year. but i am open to a lot of places, as i am one of those that will go anywhere to bowl this tournament.
Post by: THEICEMAN on June 08, 2011, 06:44:55 AM
Actually Tex, Orlando is far from dead. I have both family that lives in Orlando and works at Disney, as well as an Aquaintance whos wife works there and her department was actually given the project of doing a study to see how quick things could be put together there as far as contractors, equipment, materials etc. to build a bowling complex on the property. Disney themself would be putting this together now rather than The Aloma group that was first involved in it. The months after the holidays, through school getting out is the slow time of year in the area and with a conservative figure even, they figure having the tournament there would bring a quarter million people to the area that might not normally go there. I see more people commenting they use this as a vacation trip and there isn't much to do with the repeat trips to Reno. I know a lot of the guys still make this a trip on their own, but with things getting more expensive and families still wanting to take vactions it only makes sense to kill two birds with one stone. The Orlando area covers this easily. We go there every January to visit for a week or so and there is never nothing to do. Very easy to keep the better half and kid(s) occupied during bowling with all the area offers, and much more for the rest of us when we are off the lanes. And lately reports from Reno have USBC talking up the Orlando possibility.
theiceman
Post by: Jorge300 on June 08, 2011, 07:01:17 AM
I posted this in another thread but it seems like it belongs here too:
I don't mean this personally, but I am sick and tired of hearing people whine "why don't they bring it to the East Coast". I can tell you why. There are no cities with a convention center big enough to hold the tournament that are willing to give up yearly, committed income to pay to host the USBC Open. The Open needs at least 100,000 sq ft of space in order to build the lanes, the booths and the offices needed to run the tournament. Find a Convention center of that size that doesn't have yearly bookings (like auto shows, boat shows, gun shows, etc) and then ask the city to bid. These shows commit for years into the future, you can't just turn then away. And if you do try for the tournament, and fail, then you have a convention center sitting idol for 6 months after you have turned away business. With the dire economic times the cities and states are in, no one is willing to take that chance. There are only 2 ways it gets back to the East Coast: Orlando Stadium gets completed, or there is a town that either built a new convention center, or they have one that just got renovated and they bring the tournament in before they book their yearly shows/conventions. So please stop whining about it. If you really want it, do something about. Go to your (or the closest big city) convention center authority and talk with them about bidding. Work with the local businesses (hotels, restaurants, casinos) to help support a bid package by explaining the benefits of hosting the tournament. If anyone isn't willing to do this then, pardon my french, but STFU about it.
Jorge300
Post by: Andyman3333 on June 08, 2011, 09:14:13 AM
I think you ideally would need 3-4 stadiums, Reno & Orlando included. Maybe one on the upper East Coast and one in the Northwest. Ideally, Alaska. Yep, definitely need a stadium in Alaska. They got plenty of land to build it on and would relish in the tourism revenue. They got awesome sport fishing, hunting, Target and an Olive Garden.
That, and I wouldn't have to fly EVERY year to this tournament. Sorry, I have no sympathy for anyone complaining about flights, time, cost or anything associated with traveling across the country to get to a bowling tournament. Reno for me is actually cheap. The hotels are cheap, the food is cheap, and the access to the stadium from hotels is great. Plus, if the Pai Gow and Black Jack tables are kind to me like this year, the trip costs me nothing. I'm sure the USBC saves a ton of money by not having to build lanes in Reno too, which is a plus.
But count me in as a guy who thinks we need stadiums. And more than one. I think we need them for the visibility of this sport. For the PBA and the USBC.
By the way, I was joking about having a stadium built in Alaska. Just tired of hearing people complain about flying from the East Coast or the West Coast. At least you got Regionals and can drive to another State without having to have a passport! Mad props to my folks in Hawaii, who also feel my pain. Though, you live in a tropical paradise and I live on a Frozen iceberg.
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The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
In the bag: Arsenal: (In the bag) C-System Alpha Max, Wicked Siege, Loaded Revolver, Evil Siege, Damage, Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Swarm, C-System 3.5.
Edited by Andyman3333 on 6/8/2011 at 9:15 AM
Post by: Jorge300 on June 08, 2011, 12:32:22 PM
Andy,
I understand your pain, now. I just moved to Calgary, Canada. There are no cheap flights to anywhere in the US from here. But Reno actually wasn't too bad. I just did some looking for Baton Rouge next year and the prices are outrageous, hopefully they come down a little by the time I actually book. But that is just the way it is and I will continue to go the USBC Open as long as a team will have me, and my health and my finances allow me to.
Jorge300
Post by: Andyman3333 on June 08, 2011, 02:21:38 PM
Jorge,
I just looked at flying into New Orleans (About $800 to fly into Baton Rouge and Orleans is only about 1.5 hours away) and the cheapest I get is $588 round trip. Add hotel, car, food and beads and the trip is creeping to be about twice as expensive as flying into Reno and staying there. Yowza! Not liking what I see. Maybe this is why they get fewer teams the years they don't go to Reno. I don't know, but these prices are making me reconsider this trip at least.
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
In the bag: Arsenal: (In the bag) C-System Alpha Max, Wicked Siege, Loaded Revolver, Evil Siege, Damage, Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Swarm, C-System 3.5.
Post by: riggs on June 09, 2011, 05:30:08 AM
Andy, the last Baton Rouge tourney in 2005 was 13,322 teams and this year in Reno is 12,800 or so.
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Post by: storm making it rain on June 09, 2011, 07:11:34 AM
The entries my have been higher in 2005, but where was our economy in 2005? I think this years entries in Baton Rouge will beat out Reno of 2011, but i don't think that's a direct comparison.
Here in lies the problem in my eyes. I believe Reno will outbid any and all cities like they did for upcoming tournament stops. Now will the USBC go after the money or go after making the majority of the bowlers happy by having different places to go to. Now keep in mind i'm one of the guys that will go every year no matter where it is located. I do not like going to Reno, not because of travel costs, but mostly because i've been there so many times.
Just like anything else I think the move will be about money and money only. Both for Reno and for the USBC
Post by: jaydee on June 09, 2011, 09:12:37 AM
I think this is the underlying concern for everybody. Remember this quote? http://m.host.madison.com/mobile/article_853612ca-8e9d-11df-bbf1-001cc4c002e0.html
Pete Tredwell, USBC managing director of media, said in an e-mail that he couldn't offer specifics of the Reno deal, but called it "a really good offer."Tredwell added that "Even if the participation numbers decline, it still made sense."I think it speaks for itself. Not only are the willing to make members unhappy about about going to the same place year after year, they're willing to suffer declining participation, because the higher bid from Reno is able to offset that. You can try to get your local city to bid all you want, but the bottom line is, no other city has the ability and incentive to outbid Reno for the following reasons:1. They have the backing of the casino's unlike everyone else except Vegas.2. They have the most to lose, because you can only do so much with the Bowling Stadium otherwise, unlike the convention centers that all the other cities.3. The USBC doesn't have to factor into the cost of building the lanes in Reno, unlike everywhere else.Even if you draw more bowlers somewhere else, if more revenue from increased bowler participation can not offset Reno's superior bids and lower overhead costs to USBC, you know where they are going to pick.
Post by: Andyman3333 on June 09, 2011, 09:22:18 AM
I think 2005 and 2011 are very different years as far as our economy goes. There were 16,585 teams in Reno is 2004 and 16,235 entries in 2007. Both pre-date the housing bubble popping and the market tanking and both are closer to the 2005 Baton Rouge year. In 2010, entries were 14,189 in Reno. I would be suprised to see Baton Rouge exceed the numbers it put up in 2005 or exceed the numbers Reno put up in 2011.
In general, I think my statement was correct that participation is generally higher when it's in Nevada. Just getting there and staying there is already going to increase my annual budget significantly and that's food for thought at the least. I highly doubt I am the only one who looks at costs associated with the trip when planning the trip. Don't get me wrong though, I'm heavily leaning towards going, I just don't like to spend money, let alone more money.
I've been fortunate to make money both years I've gone.
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
In the bag: Arsenal: (In the bag) C-System Alpha Max, Wicked Siege, Loaded Revolver, Evil Siege, Damage, Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Swarm, C-System 3.5.
Post by: kidlost2000 on June 09, 2011, 09:46:15 AM
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: Jorge300 on June 09, 2011, 11:36:22 AM
I think the only way an Arena rotation will make economic sense is if it is done with 2 of them, like Reno and Orlando. That way you have the USBC Open there one year, and the Women's Open at the other facility, then switch the next year. If you do 3, then one year, one of the venues is idle. In today's economy, I don't see you making enough revenue to sustain something that big with it sitting idle for more then a year. I also don't see you getting enough additional tournaments that will pay the lineage fees a place like this would have to charge to sustain the years the tournament isn't there. Maybe in Orlando, if they open it up to open bowling, but I don't think even that would be enough, and it would raise the maintenence costs by doing it. JMHO
Jorge300
Post by: milorafferty on June 09, 2011, 11:47:11 AM
The stadium in Reno doesn't sit idle when the Open isn't there. The PBA has an event or two there of course, but there are lots of tournaments held at the stadium every year. Storm has one that lasts for a couple of months, but any group can schedule an event at the Stadium. We have leagues that bowl their sweepers at the stadium. Of course, most of these tournaments are weekend only or Fri, Sat and Sunday events. But the stadium has income other than the Open. I bowl there five or six times a year personally.
Post by: completebowler on June 09, 2011, 12:04:51 PM
What's wrong with Vegas??? If we are gonna go to the same city over and over again wouldn't Vegas be the one to go to? Seemed to me that the 2008 Tournament went off very well.
I dunno, but I can tell you I sat out this year cause I am bored with Reno and the long trip.
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Post by: Jorge300 on June 09, 2011, 12:16:58 PM
Milo,
Sorry for not making it more obvious. But so these leagues go to Reno now. Are they also going to go to Orlando, and to whatever 3rd arena is built? Are there going to be hundreds of new leagues formed just to hold their sweepers at one of the 3 arenas? The years either the women's tournament or the men's tournament isn't in Reno, how often are the lanes used? A few weekends here and there. a month or two for the Storm Mixed Tournament?
You can't support 3 bowling arenas. There aren't enough tournaments, league sweepers, or PBA events to go around. Reno has the Casinos, Orlando will have Disney, so unless you find backers like that, that won't care about a the economic loss the Arena will generate at times, you won't have a 3rd Arena in the Central US. If the tournaments and leagues that currently go to Reno, go to one of the other arena's, guess what? The NBS loses revenue, and perhaps can't support itself anymore. Unless you create new leagues, new tournaments that will go to the other 2 arenas, you are robbing Reno to pay Orlando or city X. That is not sustaining 3 Arenas. I think my point stands.
Jorge300
Post by: Andyman3333 on June 09, 2011, 01:00:29 PM
I think it's pretty apparent the new stadiums would need to be multi purpose centers stationed with other activities... Maybe a movie theatre, Shopping Center, Golf Course. These would essentially need to be resorts to sustain the lack of bowling traffic annually.
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA
In the bag: Arsenal: (In the bag) C-System Alpha Max, Wicked Siege, Loaded Revolver, Evil Siege, Damage, Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Swarm, C-System 3.5.
Post by: milorafferty on June 09, 2011, 01:02:29 PM
A large facility in Orlando would draw tournaments and league sweepers from it's local area as Reno does. You don't need "new" leagues for that. The stadium in Reno is booked most weekends for various tournaments. The California Bowlers Tour, MAMBO, ABT and various other groups have events there all the time.
A facility in Orlando would generate it's own events, just like the stadium in Reno does. And if the third location was in an area like Chicago, then it would do the same thing. We differ in opinion on this, but that's ok. I think the country can support three large stadiums. Besides, if there were locations in various parts of the country, then USBC could consider Regional Opens, similar to what TNBA does now. It just takes a bit of creative thinking to make it work.
Post by: kidlost2000 on June 09, 2011, 02:25:30 PM
Events don't have to go to stadiums built to suit the tournament only. I'm sure there are venues that could support the USBC tournament every few years as a guaranteed revenue for them and their community.
Is the one in New Orleans a bowling only stadium or is it a convention center that houses different events through the course of a year? I'm sure there are plenty of places that would jump at the chance to have such guaranteed prolong income if they knew it existed. Especially in this economy.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: riggs on June 10, 2011, 06:36:07 AM
The Reno facility was built with tax dollars by the Convention & Visitors Bureau and is forbidden from having regular leagues or open play. It can have tournaments, corporate parties and stuff like that ONLY.
The Orlando facility as conceived was to have been a private facility filled with anything and everything, including leagues, when the USBC tourneys were not there.
Very different entities.
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: riggs on June 26, 2011, 11:28:57 AM
They passed the $2 hotel room fee for the Stadium upgrading and effort to keep USBC tourneys coming back:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/article_425d5772-a01e-11e0-9ba5-001cc4c002e0.html
The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/
Post by: SG17 on June 26, 2011, 05:01:44 PM
not sure how I feel abou that; I like bowling at the stadium, but I am getting to the point I hate visiting reno
Post by: Bill Thomas on June 27, 2011, 01:06:36 PM
Me too!
Post by: tburky on June 27, 2011, 01:31:26 PM
Edited by tburky on 6/27/2011 at 1:32 PM
Post by: born2bowl2 on June 27, 2011, 01:42:27 PM
I will bowl the USBC every year no matter where it is being held. There are plenty of tournaments held in the same city year after year, including the High Roller, Hoinke, Hamtramck and Lilac, and bowlers flock to them without complaining that they should change venues. I guess if I was more interested in taking a vacation instead of bowling I would be annoyed with the USBC being held in Reno so frequently.
Post by: tburky on June 27, 2011, 02:06:35 PM
I understand that but a lot of people have limited time off for vacation so bowling is tied to vacation in many instances.
Post by: born2bowl2 on June 27, 2011, 02:14:13 PM
Sucks to be those people
They should bowl on the weekend 
Post by: tburky on June 27, 2011, 02:16:54 PM
High Roller in vegas. There are a variety of things to do in Vegas.Hoinke in Cincinnati. There are things to do in cincinnati and greater cincinnati area but not as much as Vegas.Don't know about other tournaments you mentioned.Greater Ozarks Open held in springfield, missouri. Different things to do in Springfield. However Branson is 30 minutes from Springfield and there are tons of things to do there.I guess the point I am making is this. People love to bowl the tournaments however they use that as there vacation too. So it gets old going to a place like Reno all the time. Quite honestly, I think part of the reason for lower entries is because it is held at the same place.
Post by: born2bowl2 on June 27, 2011, 02:41:22 PM
Here is a whole website dedicated to things to do in and around Reno.
I understand it’s not Vegas but there are other things to do besides drink & gamble.
PS…..I just got back from Cincinnati and downtown is no place to be at night. The only people out after 10pm were the bums, cops and criminals.