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Author Topic: Slow Play  (Read 5861 times)

Pinbuster

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Slow Play
« on: March 30, 2017, 06:24:35 AM »
Just announced at the Open Championship.

http://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622328856

I guess I'm glad they have moved the evening squad times back to allow for the slow play but I'm glad we are bowling the early team squad.

Years ago the best team squad was 10:30 at night and it always ran late sometimes up to an hour. When the tournament was held in a Pacific Time zone that was like us starting bowling at 12:30 to 1:30 in morning and you wouldn't get done until our body clock said 4 or 5 am. You would be like a zombie when you got done.

I wonder what is making squads even slower than in the past? Is there something about the SouthPoint center?

I know the last couple of years we have had to wait at times for our squads to get started.


 

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 08:32:33 AM »
The scores so far seem lower, which can cause people to bowl slower, which I'm fine with, to a point.  However, some friends of mine were there last week and their 8:30 squad started around 10:30, which is ridiculous.
 
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« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 08:35:04 AM by notclay »

j1kjvan

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 10:39:08 AM »
The biggest culprit of slow play is more people are rolling 2 balls per frame than they normally would in league play.  I guess USBC has finally proven the point that 90% of the bowlers are hacks.  The only problem with hacks is that 90% is what helps to keep the USBC solvent.

Luke Morningwood

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 11:15:46 AM »
Lane courtesy!   Every year, they announce in the squad room that there is a 1 lane courtesy, and every year, I see lots of people waiting for 2 lanes. And after they get their 2 lanes, they promptly deliver a wash out or split, and end up shooting 160.
It happens with our pairs sometimes too, and it slows things down a bunch.
What kills me is the folks waiting for 2 finally get on the approach, and somebody does the correct thing and gets up with 1 lane courtesy, and the space hog freaks out about getting jumped. It is bullshit! You get 1 lane, get the f**k up and bowl, ya diva!

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 11:45:49 AM »
+1 Luke

My friends followed a squad with a PBA member, who will remain nameless for this discussion.  He wanted not 1, not 2, but 3 lanes!   This meant his whole team wanted 3 lanes, and the squad took forever

I'm sorry.  When they announce time after time that 1 lane courtesy is what is expected, and that's not acceptable to you, then don't bowl the tournament.

I know that sometimes 2 lane courtesy can move quite fast, except when no one is used to doing it then everyone stands around, ball in hand, looking left and right waiting for everyone to acknowledge, etc. 

P.S.  That certain pro bowler shot about 580, which is not to knock him (he has more talent in his off hand than I do with my right), but probably a testament to the difficulty of the condition.  I struggle every year because I seem to love leaving splits, but I'm not worried about it.  I can plan my next shot, good or bad, while on the bench, so when it's my turn I'm ready to bowl.  I also don't have "PBA expectations".  I don't throw the ball perfectly on house shots...


« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 12:04:49 PM by notclay »

Pinbuster

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 12:03:25 PM »
While I agree that lane courtesy is and can be an issue that has been true for nationals over the years.

If this years squads are taking 10 to 15 minutes longer something else has changed.

There are a bunch of new bowlers coming this year to Vegas so that maybe a factor.

And it is not like the squads are bunched up, they are allowing over 3 hours for a team squad.

But society has changed as well over the years. 40 years ago houses around here had 6:00 leagues followed by a second shift at 8:30. Few 5 person teams at that time took more than the 2:30 to bowl and not very many strikes were being thrown then. Now in most of the leagues I bowl in 5 person teams can't get done in 2:45 and take up to 3  hours on house shots.

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2017, 12:10:25 PM »
I also wonder since no one can practice ahead of time on "the pattern" if that is causing some of the delays.  When bowlers spend more time grinding and questioning things can get bogged down.  I'm still looking forward to bowling and struggling with the condition (as most of us will do). 

Luke Morningwood

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2017, 12:36:37 PM »
I'm in the same boat. If I shoot something in the 600 range, it will be a good set. But regardless of my score, I can do it with one lane courtesy, and our teams will certainly spend time discussing the pattern and our ball reactions while waiting for our turn. We did get put on the clock, either last year or 2 years ago, and it made me nuts.

We like to compete. We work at it. In years past we have invested considerable time and resources to bowl on patterns similar to the open patterns. I bowl league with 1 lane courtesy. Also just got done with a scratch tournament that made no announcement about it, so courtesy was a jumbled up mess of mostly 2 lane courtesy, with some 1 lane mixed in.  In the past, 1 have also bowled PBA regionals and a couple USBC Masters with the "PBA pairs", and I liked it. I prefer it. But I totally get it that I don't get to have that option. To keep myself in check, I sometimes go down to practice on weekends when there are lots of kids b-day parties, and I practice next to one of them. Intentionally. I have learned to not get distracted or upset by lane play courtesy any more. But slow play....... AAARGGGHHHH!

I realize there are more factors to it than what I am crabbing about, and some of it is legit. But we all benefit by doing what we can to keep the pace of play moving. I struggle enough with the 5 man pace as it is.

itsallaboutme

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2017, 12:49:25 PM »
Pinbuster's got it.  Watch a league.  Bowler 1 bowls.  Walks back to table on the concourse.  Bowler 2 gets up to go bowl.  Walks back to table.  Bowler 3 gets up and so on.  Nobody ever greets the bowler ahead of them as they are coming off the approach anymore.  When you had to keep score everyone hung in the bowlers area.  Now they arrive 4 hours early for league to get a table.  This pace has just carried over to nationals. 

milorafferty

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2017, 12:53:25 PM »
Pinbuster's got it.  Watch a league.  Bowler 1 bowls.  Walks back to table on the concourse.  Bowler 2 gets up to go bowl.  Walks back to table.  Bowler 3 gets up and so on.  Nobody ever greets the bowler ahead of them as they are coming off the approach anymore.  When you had to keep score everyone hung in the bowlers area.  Now they arrive 4 hours early for league to get a table.  This pace has just carried over to nationals. 

This is exactly what I'm seeing as well. I didn't bowl when manual scoring was required, but I do notice that most bowlers don't even start to head to the ball return until the previous bowler has left the approach entirely.
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2017, 01:45:59 PM »
Pinbuster's got it.  Watch a league.  Bowler 1 bowls.  Walks back to table on the concourse.  Bowler 2 gets up to go bowl.  Walks back to table.  Bowler 3 gets up and so on.  Nobody ever greets the bowler ahead of them as they are coming off the approach anymore.  When you had to keep score everyone hung in the bowlers area.  Now they arrive 4 hours early for league to get a table.  This pace has just carried over to nationals.

Agreed.  I find it quite an annoying trend...
GTx2

SMACdi

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2017, 03:03:20 PM »
It would be interesting to see what the pace of play is per game in each event.  Meaning, as the night wears on does the pace get slower, faster or about the same.  I feel like it gets faster (nerves settling down, better scoring, less guessing, just wanting to get the heck out and be done with the train wreck).  That said, if someone is rolling it really well and has a chance to put up a score we typically go with the pace of that individual to keep them in rhythm and forget about being warned for slow play.  I think lane monitors do a pretty good job of not trying to speed you up when they see someone doing really well. 

itsallaboutme

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2017, 04:09:53 PM »
Congratulations on being part of the problem and trying to justify it.

tburky

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2017, 05:06:13 PM »
+1 Luke

My friends followed a squad with a PBA member, who will remain nameless for this discussion.  He wanted not 1, not 2, but 3 lanes!   This meant his whole team wanted 3 lanes, and the squad took forever

I'm sorry.  When they announce time after time that 1 lane courtesy is what is expected, and that's not acceptable to you, then don't bowl the tournament.

I know that sometimes 2 lane courtesy can move quite fast, except when no one is used to doing it then everyone stands around, ball in hand, looking left and right waiting for everyone to acknowledge, etc. 

P.S.  That certain pro bowler shot about 580, which is not to knock him (he has more talent in his off hand than I do with my right), but probably a testament to the difficulty of the condition.  I struggle every year because I seem to love leaving splits, but I'm not worried about it.  I can plan my next shot, good or bad, while on the bench, so when it's my turn I'm ready to bowl.  I also don't have "PBA expectations".  I don't throw the ball perfectly on house shots...



pete weber?

bradl

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Re: Slow Play
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2017, 06:01:00 PM »
Pinbuster's got it.  Watch a league.  Bowler 1 bowls.  Walks back to table on the concourse.  Bowler 2 gets up to go bowl.  Walks back to table.  Bowler 3 gets up and so on.  Nobody ever greets the bowler ahead of them as they are coming off the approach anymore.  When you had to keep score everyone hung in the bowlers area.  Now they arrive 4 hours early for league to get a table.  This pace has just carried over to nationals.

Agreed.  I find it quite an annoying trend...

Ugh.. very annoying indeed.

This is exactly what I'm seeing as well. I didn't bowl when manual scoring was required, but I do notice that most bowlers don't even start to head to the ball return until the previous bowler has left the approach entirely.

again, ugh.. Regardless of environment (read: league, tournament, Nats, etc.), for the most when I'm bowling, I'm standing. Doesn't matter if I'm in the settee area, back on the concourse, or otherwise, I'm always standing and ready for my turn; not because I want to keep the scoring pace up, but just that sitting throws me off my normal routine over the course of the night. If I'm having a really off night, I may sit and think about what I'm struggling with (going back to internal head games/overanalyzing everything), but other than that, I'm standing because I don't want to get stiff. My muscles are already loose, and sitting may cause me to cramp..

anyway, back on point.

I'm in the same boat. If I shoot something in the 600 range, it will be a good set. But regardless of my score, I can do it with one lane courtesy, and our teams will certainly spend time discussing the pattern and our ball reactions while waiting for our turn. We did get put on the clock, either last year or 2 years ago, and it made me nuts.

Understandable, on both sides.

Quote
We like to compete. We work at it. In years past we have invested considerable time and resources to bowl on patterns similar to the open patterns. I bowl league with 1 lane courtesy. Also just got done with a scratch tournament that made no announcement about it, so courtesy was a jumbled up mess of mostly 2 lane courtesy, with some 1 lane mixed in.  In the past, 1 have also bowled PBA regionals and a couple USBC Masters with the "PBA pairs", and I liked it. I prefer it. But I totally get it that I don't get to have that option. To keep myself in check, I sometimes go down to practice on weekends when there are lots of kids b-day parties, and I practice next to one of them. Intentionally. I have learned to not get distracted or upset by lane play courtesy any more. But slow play....... AAARGGGHHHH!

This may do all of us a world of good, because (and I'll throw my hand up here as well), we may have become too complacent in our ways in league and carrying that over into tournaments. I know for sure that after coming out of collegiates so many years ago and going into adult leagues, courtesy went from 1 lane to 2 lane. So as I adjusted, I got into the habit of not being able to adjust back to one lane courtesy, and end up seeing someone 2 lanes over with peripheral vision, and throwing me off (albeit slightly).

I'll preface that by defining "2-lane courtesy" as being on the approach and lining up while someone else is on the approach 2 lanes over (left or right). I'm not defining 2-lane courtesy as waiting off the approach until someone has started ball delivery. That would be unacceptable.

Regardless, I need to get back into the hang of 1-lane courtesy and tune out that peripheral vision, and doing what you're doing may be the key, if not for all of us.

pete weber?

That popped into my head as well..

BL.