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Author Topic: some final thoughts on Vegas  (Read 8050 times)

avabob

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some final thoughts on Vegas
« on: July 04, 2017, 05:26:25 PM »
I went to my 28th national tourney last week.  I watched posts on these boards and listened to horror stories for 3 months prior to bowling. 

On the pattern.  While I think it was ridiculous not to release the patterns, and told officials as much, I think we will find they were not much different in length than prior years.  Team was not near as short as people said.  I would guess about 38 feet.  D&S was about 42 feet.   I made the mistake of believing team I could play outside 5  and stayed their too long as it teased me.  D&S was one of the nicest patterns I have seen. 

I talked to a couple of other top players and they agreed that the pattern was not much different than many prior years.  Why the big secrecy puzzles me.  For those who like golf comparisons, it was like not telling the players how long the par 3s are so as not to give anyone an "unfair advantage"
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 05:53:51 PM by avabob »

 

ozsweet

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Re: some final thoughts on Vegas
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2017, 02:59:37 PM »
I just got back from my 21st tourney and while i did not bowl well, found that D/S was playable from the inside but didn't get there in time. We had 0 friction/recovery near 10 and outside, unless you had a really soft hand. My best game was 210 in singles playing 20 to 15 with a little lost and staying behind the shot (not my typical game as i am a lower tracker that is speed dominant). By end of Game 2 of singles I was 25 out to about 15 with a little wrinkle. Anyone outside in singles whether straight up or swing was dead (we bowled on 43-44). My doubles team bowled with 2 classified bowlers throwing straight down the middle of the lane and 2 others angling it from 10 to the pocket. i saw a few good scores in doubles on our squad (a couple by other guys on our team).

Team had a lot of friction on the backend that was tamed down by middle of game 2 but i did not see the conditions being similar to Practice Lanes at the league center as the practice lanes had no carry down effect and the tourney center did. We bowled on 3 -4 in Team.

Chris Barnes bowled the day before us and shot 607-647-591 (1845) and Jason Belmonte bowled on our team squad (different D/S squad) and shot 652-716-705 (2073). I mention this because it just shows you that the hot bowler who matches ball to pattern and repeats shots always will do best - 153rd place in Singles for the best player in the world tells you that.

Anyway, I was rated in Standard as i havent bowled league in several years any my USBS tourney average when uprated was under 210. I think that division actually helps maintain interest for some (I always competed Regular regardless of whether i was bowling or not) and it also hurts the guy who is over 210 in league but now must bowl better to case since the low-to-cash is now higher in Regular. While the prize pool may be less in Regular and no doubt that is a detriment to the better player, the best players remain at the top of the division.

I did not find that the lane topography maps were any indication of "hang area" in the tourney, but i am not as precise as i once was so perhaps others saw it differently.

In summary, i thought the lanes were playable for those with very controlled games but otherwise were pretty touchy for the average player. Don't like the lack of water coolers in the South Point stadium but otherwise, other than the long haul to get in from the casino entrance, was a decent place to bowl.

leftybowler70

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Re: some final thoughts on Vegas
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2017, 03:13:25 PM »
Thanks for sharing!!!

Jesse James

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Re: some final thoughts on Vegas
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2017, 06:53:20 PM »
You had very good observations Ozsweet! I did similarly to you in s/d. I started with a 212 game and just got worse from there, since I did not migrate far enough left to start playing the lanes inside.

Because of my experience during the Teams event, I was reluctant to make normal moves on the lanes, for S/D. During Teams, I actually migrated right during my last game.

The carry down was a serious barrier since the pieces I had were not big backenders. I finally moved in, maybe the 9th and 10th frames and realized, that by adding hand and playing deeper you could carry the world!! SIGH!

it was truly a learning experience! As for water.....the machine was absolutely empty before we even finished the first set, and the hydrants were so far away, you feared leaving your lanes because you would slow up the tempo for everyone else on the pair.
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

avabob

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Re: some final thoughts on Vegas
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2017, 11:17:06 PM »
I think one thing nobody touches on is the transitions.  I very seldom find a pattern that I can't line in.  The problem is the transitions.  Carrydiwn is the toughest on shorter to medium patterns because it happens in strips when guys are playing multiple angles and sooner or later you do get a track.  On the other hand longer patterns are easier because the long buff pretty much negates carry down and only gives the breakdown/open up transition to deal with.  This explains why D&S transitioned so much nicer than team.  Team wasn't as shirt as I have expected, but it still transitioned tougher with Carry down

Mr Hurt24

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Re: some final thoughts on Vegas
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2017, 09:03:12 AM »
It's been a little over a month since I went to my 1st Nationals event. The Southpoint Hotel as a whole was great but the walking not so much. The room, restaurants, bars, movie theater were all fantastic, the gambling not so much even though i broke even on a penny slot machine. So the bowling was up and down for the most part. I didn't do so well in the Bowler's Journal as I should have practice on the VIP lanes first and it eventually became an expensive practice session. I bowled with Dino Castillo and Sean Lavery-Sphar on the squad and they somewhat struggled to shoot decent scores but they did better than me.

Team Event
Team event played short to me and my teammates unfortunately did their on thing. The backends were flying and as someone who is not good on short patterns, the only ball I could throw was my Black Hammer. I shot 188, 181, 181, 550. My team was all over the place and I think some got fooled by watching footage on Facebook on where to play which was a bad idea and I was the only one that played outside of 10(7,8). I pretty much played up the lane and adjusted from their. My team as a whole pretty much played their favorite line they ususally played and it was a diaster for most part.

S & D
Singles and doubles were interesting to say atleast. I didn't have a great look in doubles and my partner was even worse because he didn't undertsand the concept of playing straigther at the beginning and then letting the shot open up. For me the pattern was longer but didn't play tight at all unlike the other 3 bowlers on my pair.  I tried my Hyper Cell & Impulse Solid(hooked way to much) and my polished Legion was blah. Doubles: 161, 167, 164, 492.. I had way too many opens(9) and my look wasn't great at all and my teammate shot 414 as he tried to make his favorite shot work again..
Now Singles, I decided to throw my Black Hammer again as I switch to it the last few frames of the last game of doubles. It was best decision I've made in a long time. Singles: 206, 225, 214, 645.. I made a move in and played 15 to 10 made neccessary adjustments and just tried to stay up the back of the ball and kept my ball speed up a little bit. I only had 2 opens that set and really could had shot higher than that but after a bad doubles no complains from me. So that score will cash and I made a some decent bracket money back as I put most of it in Singles. Heck, I managed to beat Josh Blanchard in a few brackets so that was pretty cool. All-events was a 1687 so not too bad at all. But overall, I had a blast and looking forward to my second Nationals event in Syracuse..

Arsenal

Alias
Paradox Trilogy
Impulse Solid
Venom Shock
Primal Rage
Cherry Vibe
Black Widow Urethane
Black Urethane

avabob

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Re: some final thoughts on Vegas
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2017, 12:33:09 PM »
Surprised there have been no posts on prize fund which is now posted.  I was actually pleasantly surprised.  Much smaller regular division and relatively high low cash projections didn't look good.

HackJandy

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Re: some final thoughts on Vegas
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2017, 06:56:10 PM »
It's been a little over a month since I went to my 1st Nationals event. The Southpoint Hotel as a whole was great but the walking not so much. The room, restaurants, bars, movie theater were all fantastic, the gambling not so much even though i broke even on a penny slot machine. So the bowling was up and down for the most part. I didn't do so well in the Bowler's Journal as I should have practice on the VIP lanes first and it eventually became an expensive practice session. I bowled with Dino Castillo and Sean Lavery-Sphar on the squad and they somewhat struggled to shoot decent scores but they did better than me.

Team Event
Team event played short to me and my teammates unfortunately did their on thing. The backends were flying and as someone who is not good on short patterns, the only ball I could throw was my Black Hammer. I shot 188, 181, 181, 550. My team was all over the place and I think some got fooled by watching footage on Facebook on where to play which was a bad idea and I was the only one that played outside of 10(7,8). I pretty much played up the lane and adjusted from their. My team as a whole pretty much played their favorite line they ususally played and it was a diaster for most part.

S & D
Singles and doubles were interesting to say atleast. I didn't have a great look in doubles and my partner was even worse because he didn't undertsand the concept of playing straigther at the beginning and then letting the shot open up. For me the pattern was longer but didn't play tight at all unlike the other 3 bowlers on my pair.  I tried my Hyper Cell & Impulse Solid(hooked way to much) and my polished Legion was blah. Doubles: 161, 167, 164, 492.. I had way too many opens(9) and my look wasn't great at all and my teammate shot 414 as he tried to make his favorite shot work again..
Now Singles, I decided to throw my Black Hammer again as I switch to it the last few frames of the last game of doubles. It was best decision I've made in a long time. Singles: 206, 225, 214, 645.. I made a move in and played 15 to 10 made neccessary adjustments and just tried to stay up the back of the ball and kept my ball speed up a little bit. I only had 2 opens that set and really could had shot higher than that but after a bad doubles no complains from me. So that score will cash and I made a some decent bracket money back as I put most of it in Singles. Heck, I managed to beat Josh Blanchard in a few brackets so that was pretty cool. All-events was a 1687 so not too bad at all. But overall, I had a blast and looking forward to my second Nationals event in Syracuse..

Blah blah blah urethane doesn't carry.  Blah blah blah reason reactives displaced urethane overnight (no offense to guy who said it who actually knows his stuff and just doesn't like how hard surface maintenance is with urethane or looks it give his style).  Maybe true slightly on house shot (not really especially if you understand how to play up the boards and aren't scared of the dry to the outside) but when you can't afford to guess at what the ball will do urethane is often the go to.  Funny how quickly my arsenal is filling with urethane and pseudo urethane.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 12:23:24 AM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.