BallReviews

General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 06, 2012, 10:10:39 AM

Title: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 06, 2012, 10:10:39 AM
Two LaCrosse, WI teams put on a TEAM display on Monday night.  Congrats to all 10 of them.
 
http://bowl.com/news/newsdetails.aspx?id=12884902796  


Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. 

"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: stone8 on March 06, 2012, 11:29:14 AM
Oh crap!!!  We're barely into March and there's a 3400 on the board already.  LOL!!!

 

Congrats boys....Great bowling!!!  Keep it going for minors!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been lucky long enough...now I'd like to get good.
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Russell on March 06, 2012, 12:13:49 PM
"We had the pattern out for a month and could try different surfaces and layouts"....
 
I can see the gripe from some guys on the bowl.com boards now.  If you don't have a ball company or pro shop behind you to allow you all the tools....you're just bowling for some bracket money and the experience.
 
Great bowling...not trying to take anything away from that monster number.


Little known fact:  In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Jorge300 on March 06, 2012, 12:22:36 PM
Russell,

    I disagree. It doesn't say they bought new equipment for this.....they may have had every ball already and just tried different ones with different layouts. Anyone can do that. And anyone should be able to find a center willing to put the shot out for them. All it takes is the time and effort to go ask around and the committment to go out and practice. Even the "average" bowler would have some older equipment that they don't use anymore that they could go and try and see if it works better then what they have now.

 

Now that being said, without the talent of these bowlers, all that work may not make much of a difference. But anyone should be able to put the same pre-work these teams did, anywhere in the country. If you tell any center that if you put this shot down you will have 5-10 people bowling 3-6 games every week during a normally slow time, as long as you put out the USBC shot....I think any center would jump at that chance. 
 



Russell wrote on 3/6/2012 11:13 AM:
"We had the pattern out for a month and could try different surfaces and layouts"....

 

I can see the gripe from some guys on the bowl.com boards now.  If you don't have a ball company or pro shop behind you to allow you all the tools....you're just bowling for some bracket money and the experience.

 

Great bowling...not trying to take anything away from that monster number.


Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"


Jorge300

 
Edited by Jorge300 on 3/6/2012 at 11:22 AM
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Russell on March 06, 2012, 12:28:24 PM
Fair enough...I agree that talent is still an overwhelming factor.  It's possible that they didn't do any manipulating of equipment besides surface, however having a pro shop there readily available didn't hurt at all.


Little known fact:  In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 06, 2012, 12:30:39 PM
Plaza Lanes in Ripon, WI puts out the shot for us so if anyone within earshot of this message would like to meet us this Sunday around 10:00 a.m. to work on their chances to succeed in Baton Rouge.  We put about 10 games each on the pattern last week and he charged us $10.  Cheap price to pay for the opportunity to improve your game.
 
I'll echo Jorge's words on Russell's response although he(Russell) was not trying to take anything away from their bowling talents.  However, we're assuming that the typical league bowler actually keeps his/her older equipment or has the inventory of newer equipment to do so.  I've plugged and redrilled four older balls to use for Baton Rouge and they seem to match up very nicely.  If the operator can consistently duplicate shots, it will be even more helpful in your chances to flourish.


Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. 

"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Russell on March 06, 2012, 12:43:47 PM
Yeah just to reiterate...definitely not trying to take anything away from 3400.  That's a good night on a league wall...let alone a pattern like that.  Truly amazing shotmaking by those guys/gals.  Probably going to be worth an eagle in the end.   If not pretty darn close....

Little known fact:  In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Good Times Good Times on March 06, 2012, 01:17:06 PM
Yes!

 

And if someone DOES beat that, they'll have earned it.
 



Russell wrote on 3/6/2012 11:43 AM:Yeah just to reiterate...definitely not trying to take anything away from 3400.  That's a good night on a league wall...let alone a pattern like that.  Truly amazing shotmaking by those guys/gals.  Probably going to be worth an eagle in the end.   If not pretty darn close....

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"


GetOffMe10Pin

"Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right"
- Henry Ford







 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: mainzer on March 06, 2012, 01:30:07 PM
Great bowling to those guys the number is staggering on a shot that can play that tight.

 

We have been bowling on this years pattern for three weeks and it the knowledge gained is very helpful. However that being said. At Nationals, the type of oil maybe different, with a different type of oiler, on a surface that is different from what most of us see, Outside conditions are different which if you believe Center owners can affect the oil.

 

Bowling on the pattern before hand can give you a general clue as to what you might be facing, but their will be some variables once you actually get on the lanes at Nationals.

 

Just my thoughts.



MainzerPower
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: riggs on March 06, 2012, 01:39:05 PM

The power of Cheese! ;-}


Talent + smarts + practice + teamwork = success at the Open Championships


Read my 11th Frame blog at http://www.11thframe.com/
Follow me on Twitter @riggs7465

http://www.11thframe.com/page/blog_id_4892

 
 
Edited by riggs on 3/6/2012 at 2:04 PM
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Jorge300 on March 06, 2012, 03:23:07 PM
Russell,

      I understand. And more then likely this team did get new equipment and changed layouts based on what they saw.....something most average bowlers can't or won't do. But they didn't specifically say that, and I wanted to point out that the average bowler can get older stuff out and pay a very small price to change layouts or even just use as is. Never thought you were taking away from their talent level and if I implied that I apologize.
 



Russell wrote on 3/6/2012 11:28 AM:
Fair enough...I agree that talent is still an overwhelming factor.  It's possible that they didn't do any manipulating of equipment besides surface, however having a pro shop there readily available didn't hurt at all.


Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"


Jorge300

Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: tburky on March 06, 2012, 03:58:53 PM

 One thing I can say for Wisconsin is there are more opportunities to bowl on flatter patterns than what there is here in Oklahoma. No knocking on anybody I think it is great that the opportunity does exist. Lots of talent there.
riggs wrote on 3/6/2012 12:39 PM:

The power of Cheese! ;-}


Talent + smarts + practice + teamwork = success at the Open Championships


Read my 11th Frame blog at http://www.11thframe.com/
Follow me on Twitter @riggs7465

http://www.11thframe.com/page/blog_id_4892

 
 
Edited by riggs on 3/6/2012 at 2:04 PM
 
 
Edited by tburky on 3/6/2012 at 2:59 PM
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: charlest on March 06, 2012, 04:04:33 PM
That's a 680 average per man on a sport pattern!
Doesn't happen very often around here on a house pattern.
 
Russell wrote on 3/6/2012 11:43 AM:Yeah just to reiterate...definitely not trying to take anything away from 3400.  That's a good night on a league wall...let alone a pattern like that.  Truly amazing shotmaking by those guys/gals.  Probably going to be worth an eagle in the end.   If not pretty darn close....

Little known fact:  In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: bass on March 06, 2012, 11:28:39 PM
These gentlemen are very good young bowlers. Most have bowled collegiately so they understand the team concept. Also in Wisconsin there are tournaments almost every weekend for them to work on their skills. Not sure about their equipment choices yet but you can assume Brunswick balls were in abundance on the rack with 2 staffers in the mist.


Almost all things are better when they come from Texas.Except maybe the USBC. LOL
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: riggs on March 07, 2012, 07:36:18 AM
Heilman is the only staffer.  And these guys are mostly young -- many in college -- so you can be sure they weren't buying and drilling up a ton of new balls.  You can have 4 balls or so and with surface manipulation cover a wide range of reactions.


Read my 11th Frame blog at http://www.11thframe.com/
Follow me on Twitter @riggs7465

Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: charlest on March 07, 2012, 09:43:56 AM
Riggs,
 
I think it could be educational to learn
- which balls they used (possibly the drilling and surface) and
- their rev rate and ball speed.
 
Any chance?
 
We already know their skill level is very high as is their degree of cooperation with one another (that requires some sacrifice of ego for the sake of team success). Both are probably far beyond many but not all of us here.
 


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: riggs on March 07, 2012, 10:41:53 AM

Minors results:


The 11th Frame: Heilman moves into second in all-events with 2,121 at Open Championships


http://www.11thframe.com/page/blog_id_4896



Read my 11th Frame blog at http://www.11thframe.com/
Follow me on Twitter @riggs7465

Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: riggs on March 07, 2012, 10:44:09 AM
If you read my blog of yesterday, they don't want ball information or details on how they attacked the lanes published for obvious reasons.  Their rev rates and speed vary, but none of them are super power players. Pizl is very straight. Heilman and Mills would be considered tweeners.


 



charlest wrote on 3/7/2012 8:43 AM:
Riggs,

 

I think it could be educational to learn

- which balls they used (possibly the drilling and surface) and

- their rev rate and ball speed.

 

Any chance?

 

We already know their skill level is very high as is their degree of cooperation with one another (that requires some sacrifice of ego for the sake of team success). Both are probably far beyond many but not all of us here.

 



"None are so blind as those who will not see."




 


Read my 11th Frame blog at http://www.11thframe.com/
Follow me on Twitter @riggs7465

Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 07, 2012, 10:52:50 AM
About the only hint they (Heilman) gave as to where/what they played is that they, "finished team @ 13 and started minors at 24."  This matches exactly with my contention as an "arsenal contest" for those who want to migrate or a "replication display" which is what Nicholas J's team employed to ensure minimal changes to the pattern.  For 10 people to marry to a single idea and stay that close together, replicate shots, and produce spectacular results like this is amazing!

Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. 

"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Jorge300 on March 07, 2012, 11:20:36 AM
Let me again add my Congrats to these teams for some great bowling.

 

But I feel they were shortchanged a little in their minor events. While the lanes may not have been that bad, having to bowl after a team and minor squad seems unfair. I would speculate that if they had bowled at 11:30PM after a single team squad that Mr. Heilman may be leading all events, and the team would be leading Team All-Events. Another example of how the changes in 2013 are needed. Irregardless, great great shooting.

 

Just wish we had a witness to their team squad so we could get an idea of how far outside they were playing (just me being selfish as even with this info I doubt our team will sniff 3400, or even 3200, we'd be happy at 3000 lol).


Jorge300

Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Andyman3333 on March 07, 2012, 12:01:39 PM
Any player with serious intentions of contending for an Eagle will go to similar lengths to make sure they are competitive when the lights turn on in Baton Rouge.  This team prepared, strategized and got 10 guys to buy into a plan and STICK TO IT, which is a whole different issue.  I'm thoroughly impressed.

 

If you don't, you're basically hoping to hit the lotto when you bowl.  The odds are against you. 

 

We start practicing this Sunday for our trip at the end of April.  So we'll get 6 solid weeks on the pattern playing with surface, ball choice and attacks.  But we still have to execute our shots and STICK TO THE PLAN.  I'm glad there is a bigger score to shoot at before we go.  Will make us more committed. 

 

If I were them, I wouldn't reveal any info either.  You've still got March, April, May, and June to go and bunches of really good players coming through.  Would be foolish to give anyone that info. 


www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.



 



PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA



Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage.  On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: TWOHAND834 on March 07, 2012, 12:16:44 PM
Lets use common sense here.  In team event they ENDED at 13.  So chances are, they did not use high end super soakers for that entire set.  No way they could.  My guess, is that they burned up the area around the 5 board during shadow bowling and then went to something a little weaker that would not soak oil near as fast and stayed playing up 8-9-10; then migrated left as soon as the first guy left anything that hit high on the headpin. 
 



230-n-up-or-bust wrote on 3/7/2012 9:52 AM:About the only hint they (Heilman) gave as to where/what they played is that they, "finished team @ 13 and started minors at 24."  This matches exactly with my contention as an "arsenal contest" for those who want to migrate or a "replication display" which is what Nicholas J's team employed to ensure minimal changes to the pattern.  For 10 people to marry to a single idea and stay that close together, replicate shots, and produce spectacular results like this is amazing!

Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. 

"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo


"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy 



Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 07, 2012, 12:29:57 PM
2HAND, it's a 39' pattern, I completely realize you don't have to use a super soaker to get the ball to move on a pattern with seven yards of backends.  That's why I envision using my strongest pieces to make the trip to Baton Rouge in minors when wrecking the pattern has already taken place.

Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. 

"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: stone8 on March 07, 2012, 01:33:12 PM
"seven yards of backend".............now that's funny stuff right there.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been lucky long enough...now I'd like to get good.
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: titletowncards on March 07, 2012, 03:15:14 PM
Shout out to my good friends Greg Pizl Jr. and Rob Warren! Great bowling everyone! Very proud to say I know these guys, known them since they were kids in youth league. Way to represent "The Power of Cheese~"


Chris Orgeman
Get MOTIVated and Bowl Up A Storm!
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: riggs on March 07, 2012, 05:40:43 PM
Excellent post!

 

Sometimes the hardest thing is to stick to a game plan when you are struggling. It requires discipline and also honesty about whether the plan is wrong or you are simply not making shots or have not made the lanes favorable enough yet.

 

In 2010, we started with 967 if I recall correctly and were about even in game 2 halfway through but we stayed with our plan because we believed in it and felt we had not been performing well.  Then all of a sudden the lane seemed to open for us and we relaxed and went on an amazing strike binge that got us 1170-1161 for 3,298 and a short-lived lead.

 

 



Andyman3333 wrote on 3/7/2012 11:01 AM:
Any player with serious intentions of contending for an Eagle will go to similar lengths to make sure they are competitive when the lights turn on in Baton Rouge.  This team prepared, strategized and got 10 guys to buy into a plan and STICK TO IT, which is a whole different issue.  I'm thoroughly impressed.


 


If you don't, you're basically hoping to hit the lotto when you bowl.  The odds are against you. 


 


We start practicing this Sunday for our trip at the end of April.  So we'll get 6 solid weeks on the pattern playing with surface, ball choice and attacks.  But we still have to execute our shots and STICK TO THE PLAN.  I'm glad there is a bigger score to shoot at before we go.  Will make us more committed. 


 


If I were them, I wouldn't reveal any info either.  You've still got March, April, May, and June to go and bunches of really good players coming through.  Would be foolish to give anyone that info. 



www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.




 




PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA




Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage.  On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.


Read my 11th Frame blog at http://www.11thframe.com/
Follow me on Twitter @riggs7465

Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: riggs on March 07, 2012, 06:09:16 PM
USBC video report on 3,401 team ... shows several shots from third game ... they were into third arrow or a little deeper.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJrmOG1nF4Y&feature=uploademail


Read my 11th Frame blog at http://www.11thframe.com/
Follow me on Twitter @riggs7465

Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: kidlost2000 on March 11, 2012, 03:55:27 PM
After bowling team last night next to the featured pair I will say that the oil outside of ten really held up well. If you have a team of four or five guys with 500 or better play a line between the first and second arrow for warm ups and into the first game you can create some much needed bump area to make the shot a lot friendlier. We didn't have that luck and that part of the lane really did not break down much. The pair just over from us did and by the end of the first game and into the second they created a lot of bump and hook room to play way more aggressive lines
 
Luck of the draw for those bowling singles/doubles afterwards. Our pair was as close to fresh as you can get and the pair right of us was flying by the end of team. Should be fun when we bowl tonight at 11pm. (glad I work midnites)
 
Spares are everything 


"1 of 1." 
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: Hoselrockets on March 13, 2012, 10:29:52 AM
When you say "500" are you referring to ball surface?
 
kidlost2000 wrote on 3/11/2012 1:55 PM:
After bowling team last night next to the featured pair I will say that the oil outside of ten really held up well. If you have a team of four or five guys with 500 or better play a line between the first and second arrow for warm ups and into the first game you can create some much needed bump area to make the shot a lot friendlier. We didn't have that luck and that part of the lane really did not break down much. The pair just over from us did and by the end of the first game and into the second they created a lot of bump and hook room to play way more aggressive lines
 
Luck of the draw for those bowling singles/doubles afterwards. Our pair was as close to fresh as you can get and the pair right of us was flying by the end of team. Should be fun when we bowl tonight at 11pm. (glad I work midnites)
 
Spares are everything 


"1 of 1." 


THB
Title: Re: Two LaX Wisconsin teams vault into the USBC Open Championships lead.
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on March 13, 2012, 11:41:56 AM
OK.
 
After about 20-25 games or so on the pattern, here's what I've found.
 
You'd better learn how to grab 10 people with the SAME idea how to play the lanes and STICK TO THAT IDEA throughout the entire set.  The shot plays either at fifth board or fifth arrow and we've found a fair amount of success playing directly up the lane around the first arrow, just like Mo Pinel's above180.com interview, with moderate surfaced (4000 abralon & lane shine) or so to start.  I'm going down there with a Prodigy to start and feathering my ball speed nearly 1.5-2.0 MPH less so the ball reads gently at 40-42 feet instead of abruptly @ 50 feet.  I really haven't seen terrible carry issues, either, unless you count the number of 9-pins due to the diminished ball speed.  IMHO, I'll deal with 9-pins a lot easier than 10-pins as small hand position changes or small speed variances should help to solve that.  The real key is to NOT migrate left as much as in the past but to ball down instead.  Two, maybe three times you'll need to do this while GENTLY moving left.  The team leaders, who shot 1100+ each game, were playing around third arrow-ish to finish their team session but there was STILL a shot playing up the boards around 10-12 with moderate covers with polish or lane shine. 


Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly. 

"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy