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General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: riggs on April 26, 2013, 09:20:03 AM

Title: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: riggs on April 26, 2013, 09:20:03 AM

The 11th Frame: Announcement finally coming Tuesday on deal involving USBC, South Point, Las Vegas Events, and Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority

http://11thframe.com/page/blog_id_5838
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: bradl on April 26, 2013, 01:37:54 PM

The 11th Frame: Announcement finally coming Tuesday on deal involving USBC, South Point, Las Vegas Events, and Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority

http://11thframe.com/page/blog_id_5838

If it is what I think it is, this will work out great for me personally, as I'm considering a move back down there to be closer to family. It will definitely bring in the money, but also will allow the locals to save money as they won't need to worry about flight/transportation/hotel..

Plus locals discount at the buffets. ;)

EDIT: I was at the tournament in 2009 when it was at Cashman Center, and I honestly didn't think it held that much compared to the Stadium the year afterward. I'm surprised at the numbers. no doubt that this has to do with location of the tournament versus the actual tournament. I wonder, if this is indeed what I think it is, if they build the event center anything like they built the Stadium (read: theater/IMAX-type seating), could this make the Stadium obsolete?

BL.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: Bill Thomas on April 26, 2013, 03:05:27 PM
I think there is the distinct possibility that a Vegas deal could eventually kill entries in Reno.  Who would rather go to Reno?  And yes I know there are some who will go to both.  However, I would bet that those who had to choose between the two would opt for Vegas.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: bradl on April 26, 2013, 05:35:03 PM
I think there is the distinct possibility that a Vegas deal could eventually kill entries in Reno.  Who would rather go to Reno?  And yes I know there are some who will go to both.  However, I would bet that those who had to choose between the two would opt for Vegas.

No doubt. Especially if they were coming in from a good distance. Getting into Reno's airport is tough; there just aren't as many options, and the town is so small that it just doesn't make it worth it. Vegas on the other hand, if you think about it, there are at least 2 nonstop flights to Vegas from every major city.

On the other side of that, there is a team that is going up the hill with us who say that they only bowl the USBC tournament when it is in Reno, because of how close it is. Seeing that work and family come into play, I can understand that, but they wouldn't take the 10 hour drive down to Vegas, let alone spend the $40 - $60 per flight to get there.

Personally, if funds weren't a problem if the tournament were within 4 hours drive or an hour and a half's flight, I'd do it (if it were in Vegas and I lived in Orange county, I'd drive it). If it were in the town I'm living in, it would be stupid to NOT bowl it (certain circumstances excepting). But for the lengthy traveler, there isn't an airline that doesn't have a nonstop to Vegas, let alone does not fly there at all.

BL.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: completebowler on April 27, 2013, 12:44:26 AM
USBC was absolutely foolish to sign the long term deal with Reno. I know most people from my area don't see it as something worth going to these days and that is a shame. I bowl with some high end players but we always treated it as a vacation. To go to the same destination every other year was a mistake.

Now....that said....if they had done the same deal with Vegas who knows? Different places to stay and so many things to do you could find new and excitingthings every year and keep some of the best as mainstays. There is a reason other groups have conventions in Vegas all the time.

Anyhow.....hopefully things turn around as I find myself less interested to go every year anymore. Sad.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: lefty50 on April 27, 2013, 10:09:53 AM
I personally bowl every year and live in the West so Vegas is fine with me, but I am soooooo tired of Reno. Vegas is a better vacation destination and will be a bigger draw, but I fear that will only last for the first few cycles. My East Coast friends will not come to Reno all the time due to cost, its poor choice as a repeat venue, and just purely out of spite for not balancing the destinations. Vegas once or twice, yes... Every other year, no. Orlando was the long term key to revitalizing the tournament. Sadly, I can only assume that Orlando is dead.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: charlest on April 27, 2013, 01:45:54 PM
Makes no difference to me here in NJ. Nationals has become a waste of money. I loved the fact that I would see friends from across the country and the various other tournaments were a special thrill/entertainment,  BUT ...

the expense involved, airfare, ensuing airline restrictions on the bowling ball luggage, the ever increasing hotel fares almost made winning an eagle a necessity to break even. Then for three years in a row, the possibility of winning a few bucks in brackets were ripped from my hands when it took 2 of the 3 games in each of singles and doubles on the pairs my teams were given to even find a line. The previous idiots all played the pattern as if it were a house shot and destroyed anything but the 1st arrow or the 5th arrow. The years prior to my last 3, I won $200 - $400 in minors brackets at least giving me the illusion of a good "bowling" time. In the last 3 I was lucky to get $50 for both singles and doubles. With a cost of $2000 to get to Reno to bowl, including taking 2 planes minimum, for 3 - 4 days is no longer tenable.

How nice that all you Western guys are a few hours drive; the other 90% of us have to dig deep, be rich or willing to donate or hope some sponsor will pay our way. Ain't happening again.

Vegas or Reno, makes zero difference.You can have them both.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: lefty50 on April 27, 2013, 03:09:59 PM
Hi Jeff... So, tell me how you really feel....   :) That is the point I made, is it not?
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: ccrider on April 28, 2013, 12:49:58 PM
Well stated Jeff. Orlando and those of us in the east and southeast can participate without maximum cost. Vegas and Reno mean maximum expenditures for us.

Of course, the powers that be don't care about us.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: BowlingTourney on April 28, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
Well stated Jeff. Orlando and those of us in the east and southeast can participate without maximum cost. Vegas and Reno mean maximum expenditures for us.

Of course, the powers that be don't care about us.

Of course. That has to be it.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: bowler001 on April 29, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Makes no difference to me here in NJ. Nationals has become a waste of money. I loved the fact that I would see friends from across the country and the various other tournaments were a special thrill/entertainment,  BUT ...

the expense involved, airfare, ensuing airline restrictions on the bowling ball luggage, the ever increasing hotel fares almost made winning an eagle a necessity to break even. Then for three years in a row, the possibility of winning a few bucks in brackets were ripped from my hands when it took 2 of the 3 games in each of singles and doubles on the pairs my teams were given to even find a line. The previous idiots all played the pattern as if it were a house shot and destroyed anything but the 1st arrow or the 5th arrow. The years prior to my last 3, I won $200 - $400 in minors brackets at least giving me the illusion of a good "bowling" time. In the last 3 I was lucky to get $50 for both singles and doubles. With a cost of $2000 to get to Reno to bowl, including taking 2 planes minimum, for 3 - 4 days is no longer tenable.

How nice that all you Western guys are a few hours drive; the other 90% of us have to dig deep, be rich or willing to donate or hope some sponsor will pay our way. Ain't happening again.

Vegas or Reno, makes zero difference.You can have them both.

This is kind of a lame excuse. Especially now as the USBC has taken the extra effort to go fresh oil for every squad. You control your own destiny now, and if you can't make money in brackets, it's simply you not scoring that causes it. I think it's hilarious how everyone begs for it to come east, and guess what, the entries will still be low, if not EVEN lower. I come from Alaska...and have to take "2 planes" , sometimes 3, and pay a good chunk to do it. I would say $2000 is reach for me to spend on this trip. I just got back yesterday and maybe spent $500 while I was there. Combine that with a $600 plane ticket and $100 for hotel suite (4 nights split amongst 3 guys), I barely spent over $1000. We spend the majority of our time around the bowling...whether it be sitting at the stadium watching or bowling side tournaments. If you go and dump your money into things that don't pay back, that's not USBC's fault. LOL.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: bradl on April 29, 2013, 04:27:35 PM

This is kind of a lame excuse. Especially now as the USBC has taken the extra effort to go fresh oil for every squad. You control your own destiny now, and if you can't make money in brackets, it's simply you not scoring that causes it. I think it's hilarious how everyone begs for it to come east, and guess what, the entries will still be low, if not EVEN lower. I come from Alaska...and have to take "2 planes" , sometimes 3, and pay a good chunk to do it. I would say $2000 is reach for me to spend on this trip. I just got back yesterday and maybe spent $500 while I was there. Combine that with a $600 plane ticket and $100 for hotel suite (4 nights split amongst 3 guys), I barely spent over $1000. We spend the majority of our time around the bowling...whether it be sitting at the stadium watching or bowling side tournaments. If you go and dump your money into things that don't pay back, that's not USBC's fault. LOL.

This is a good point, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways to cut costs and still make it out to the tournament. For example:

I have had to make short flights between Sacramento and Vegas for both business and personal reasons. Because of that, I've earned enough points with SWA to be rewarded with a free roundtrip flight to anywhere they fly. Rule of thumb for me is that when I get the free flight, I save it for long range flights (read: anywhere east of Denver. Unless any emergencies come up, that flight is my ticket to Buffalo for the tournament there.

That saves me nearly $800 for the flight alone, so let's chop that off of charlest's bill, making it $1200.

To win that $200-$400 in brackets, meant you had to have spent at least $200 to get into them alone. Yes, I know, "no deposit/no return", but really.. you could go for spending less.. Let's see about dropping that to, say, $50. and I'm being REALLY conservative. $1150.

How much are you spending on a room? Weekends had me at circus Circus for $60/night, and weekdays at $20! Let's try the weekday, for 3 days. $1090.

That leaves the rest of the trip.. over $1000, for food and... Gambling? Really? And that other 90% has to 'dig deep'? Really?

Wash/rinse/repeat for Vegas. And also realize that gambling isn't the only exciting things you can do, especially in Vegas. I could name 5 things to do between bowling in both areas that have nothing to do with gambling.

In fact, speaking of digging in deep, by that logic, it should be better when the tournaments are *NOT* in Vegas or Reno; that way, less money has to be spent gambling. That would make us Western guys not have to spend so much, no?

BL.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: bowl400 on April 30, 2013, 11:23:26 AM
Good point about the East.  Last time I looked, Baton Rouge is East of the Mississippi, and yet the entry count was even lower than in 2005.  Based on all the comments about Eastern locations, 2018 in Syracuse should be huge.  We shall see.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: storm making it rain on April 30, 2013, 12:38:58 PM
Look at the entries from Syracuse the last time it was there, i think it was the lowest entry count of the last 15 years.  I'm from the east coast, and yes going to the west is always a long and drawn out journey for just 2 days of bowling, but i've been going for 15 years, I love this game, and i'm going to go for as long as I can no matter where it's held.  That being said it would be nice to go to destination cities that are more family oriented ie: Orlando, i'd love to plan a family vacation not just a quick bowling trip which has been the norm going to reno so often.


Good point about the East.  Last time I looked, Baton Rouge is East of the Mississippi, and yet the entry count was even lower than in 2005.  Based on all the comments about Eastern locations, 2018 in Syracuse should be huge.  We shall see.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: charter member on April 30, 2013, 12:47:59 PM
I enjoy Vegas.  Can't really go wrong there, and it's more affordable to get there than most places. 
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: DOconTEX on April 30, 2013, 04:00:01 PM
I am REALLY tired of Reno.  Vegas was OK, but too crowded, too much traffic, and too expensive. 

I bowl because I like the challenge to see if I can beat my best ever, not to win eagles.  Except for a couple of guys, nobody I go with is in that talent level.  But we do like to use these events to add golf buddies trips.
 
Golf in Billings is lots different than golf in Albuquerque.  Salt Lake, Birmingham, Huntsville, even Wichita, Tulsa, and Baton Rouge provided lots of variety.  But, except for a few of the most high end places around Tahoe, I've done most of the courses in Reno. 

I have friends from Maryland who used to join us on one of the three teams we take who won't go again unless Nats are East of the Mississippi.

Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: Pinbuster on April 30, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
Vegas is easier to get airfare to from anywhere in the states than Reno. I will have fewer connecting flights and the airfare will be significantly cheaper than to Reno.

Vegas has a lot more things to do than Reno.

That being said I miss the old days when the tournament would visit a new city virtually every year. It was a reason to travel to certain places that I wouldn't have gone to otherwise.

But I believe the USBC is making the tournament a cash cow to prop up the drop in sanction fees. They find it easier/cheaper to hold the tournament where they don't have to build lanes and casino's are kicking in money to hold bracket payouts.

They have made other changes lately to make it unfriendly to the returning teams and everything seems to have gone to gouging the bowler to make them more money.

Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: notsohotshot on April 30, 2013, 09:38:40 PM
Yeah, how about some place like Arlington Tx. You could go watch a Rangers game, Six Flags for the kids, Cowboy stadium, and a whole lot more stuff of interest plus lots of golf close by... Flying into D/FW is easy and available from anywhere....
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: riggs on May 01, 2013, 12:42:27 PM
The 11th Frame: USBC-Vegas deal has 4 Open Championships, 3 Women’s Championships at new South Point complex from 2016-23

http://11thframe.com/page/blog_id_5846

Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: BobOhio on May 01, 2013, 07:10:53 PM
Great news, what better place then Vegas, easy in and out.
Plus it's four years not going to Reno.
All positives here.
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: avabob on May 15, 2013, 03:18:52 PM
Even though the stadium is showing its age, it is still a great venue for nationals.  Not so much for the city of Reno.  I only go when the tourney is in the west, and prefer Vegas to Reno even thought it is a couple hundred miles further. 
Title: Re: USBC Vegas deal announcement Tuesday
Post by: bradl on May 15, 2013, 05:00:02 PM
Even though the stadium is showing its age, it is still a great venue for nationals.  Not so much for the city of Reno.  I only go when the tourney is in the west, and prefer Vegas to Reno even thought it is a couple hundred miles further.

Personally for me, it's an even push. I used to live in Vegas, so I'm more than familiar with the area, and still have an apartment there (mainly being used for a storage unit and a relative in the USAF), so accommodations isn't a problem.

Reno is closer, but also gives me the liberty of being able to drive home to pick up more/other gear if I need to. I did that once for the SP tournament in Carson City when the pattern was way too dry for the balls I had. Drove back home to Sacramento, picked up my Blue Pearl Hammer (yes, it was that dry), and drove back up.

Obviously I wouldn't have that luxury if the tournament went somewhere back east, except for it it went to Omaha or Lincoln. I have a whole closet of gear at my parents place that I'm not afraid to pull out.  ;D

Granted, nothing newer than a Pearl Quake, Nitro/R, or Nitro/R2, but definitely able to be used.

BL.