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General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: agroves on February 10, 2008, 07:25:21 PM

Title: Why two tournaments?
Post by: agroves on February 10, 2008, 07:25:21 PM: Did the USBC ever say why the Women get to keep their own tournament and men did not? I sent an email last year to USBC about this subject and got no response.....not that I expected one.

My issue isn't bowling with the women, my wife is on my team this year. But, why do they get have a women only tournament?

Andrew
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FUFU
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: someguyintucson on February 11, 2008, 06:46:47 AM: Probably because the USBC doesn't want to spend the money on legal fees when they get the crap sued out of them.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: shelley on February 11, 2008, 07:26:55 AM: Only offering a single combined tournament would be discrimination against women. You can't discriminate against women, only against men.

SH
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: scotts33 on February 11, 2008, 07:35:24 AM: quote:
Only offering a single combined tournament would be discrimination against women. You can't discriminate against women, only against men.

SH

You go shelley!
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Scott
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: justdale on February 11, 2008, 07:37:59 AM: They can run a Men's only ( but they won't), they just have to run an Open tournament or they will get in trouble because of Titl 9
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: scotts33 on February 11, 2008, 07:55:30 AM: quote:
They can run a Men's only ( but they won't), they just have to run an Open tournament or they will get in trouble because of Titl 9

But USBC can run a Women's ONLY tourney. Why is that again??? How is that not discrimination?
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Scott
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: ThongPrincess on February 11, 2008, 07:58:13 AM: There are some women who will not compete with or against the men unless it is handicap or no-tap. Even then some will not compete. Also the Women's tournament is run in divisions, many division not just 2. Some women are more willing to feel they can compete when they are competing within a smaller range of averages.

If I wanted to bowl the Women's Championships, I would only compete every 3 years when it is in Reno. Other than that it is impossible to get 6 or 10 women willing to travel to the tournament.
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USBC Bronze Coach

"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: shelley on February 11, 2008, 08:06:11 AM: quote:
But USBC can run a Women's ONLY tourney. Why is that again??? How is that not discrimination?

They can run a women-only tournament, they just have to run an open tournament too. Which they do. Don't you see how that doesn't discriminate against women? They can compete in both tournaments. If you ran a men-only tournament, that would discriminate against women. What is this, 1959? Sheesh.

SH
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: Gil on February 11, 2008, 08:06:15 AM: Because no where does it say USBC MEN'S CHAMPIONSHIP, it says USBC OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP.
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Hi Bob, were the good old boys.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: justdale on February 11, 2008, 08:07:09 AM: It is discrimination, but the men won't file a claim.
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: scotts33 on February 11, 2008, 08:08:19 AM: quote:
quote:
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But USBC can run a Women's ONLY tourney. Why is that again??? How is that not discrimination?
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They can run a women-only tournament, they just have to run an open tournament too. Which they do. Don't you see how that doesn't discriminate against women? They can compete in both tournaments. If you ran a men-only tournament, that would discriminate against women. What is this, 1959? Sheesh.

SH

How is a women's ONLY tourney NOT discriminating against men? Just wondering?
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Scott
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: boomtown24 on February 11, 2008, 08:17:27 AM: quote:
They can run a Men's only ( but they won't), they just have to run an Open tournament or they will get in trouble because of Titl 9
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff

TITLE IX is in use for federal assistance only. Unless the USBC is receiveing federal aid TITLE IX does not apply in this case. Just thought I'd clear this misconception up.

I do agree with the question of the post. LPGA, PGA this topic has been run through the ringer with no clear answer.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: justdale on February 11, 2008, 08:33:04 AM: Back when bowling was divided the thought of merging with the women was a slap in the face to a lot of the " good ole boys" that ran ABC, but with the threat of a lawsuit they folded like a cheap blanket. ABC basically didn't want to fight the fight that needed to be fought
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: shelley on February 11, 2008, 08:34:48 AM: quote:
How is a women's ONLY tourney NOT discriminating against men? Just wondering?

There's no such thing as discrimination against men. You can only discriminate against women and other groups that are otherwise inferior to (white) men.

SH
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: agroves on February 11, 2008, 08:36:18 AM: quote:
quote:
How is a women's ONLY tourney NOT discriminating against men? Just wondering?

There's no such thing as discrimination against men. You can only discriminate against women and other groups that are otherwise inferior to (white) men.

SH

Lets not go there, please.
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FUFU

www.spokaneusbc.com
www.lilaclanesbowling.com
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: shelley on February 11, 2008, 08:40:17 AM: quote:
quote:
quote:
How is a women's ONLY tourney NOT discriminating against men? Just wondering?

There's no such thing as discrimination against men. You can only discriminate against women and other groups that are otherwise inferior to (white) men.

SH

Lets not go there, please.

Why else would it be acceptable to have women-only athletic organizations?

SH
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: jimsey on February 11, 2008, 08:44:12 AM: It's all about the $$$. You can run any tournament that you want as long as you run a tournament that is open to everyone who wants to compete, i.e. an open tournament. You can run a tournament for left handed Presbyterians named bruce if you think you cna get enough entries to make it work. The women's tournament is feasible because there are enough women who will compete knowing that they have the multiple division format and they do not have to compete against men. There is a seniors tournament that allows the older bowlers to compete agains others on an equal basis. If you added a men's only tournament, you would lose the few women's entries, however you do not gain more men, just subdivide the entries. By percentage how many women are actually cashing versus how many actually enter the event. This just a case of good economics.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: scotts33 on February 11, 2008, 08:46:34 AM: I always figured discrimination was not just about one group or minority but could be anyone that got unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice. Maybe I'm wrong.

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Scott
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: justdale on February 11, 2008, 08:53:19 AM: I think that the reason that USBC doesn't run a "Men's Only" is because they would lose entries in the Open Tournament. Not alot of entries, but enough to start alot of calls an e-mails, and of course funding for such a tournament, as well as finding a host city, and all the work that is involved in that would actually look like they are working for the money we send them every year.

I believe that USBC as we know it will be gone in about 5 years. In my opinion, the move to Texas is just a start in the merging with the BPAA. And after a few years there it is just going to come down to no more national tournament. And then each house will be giving out awards for what ever they want.

quote:
It's all about the $$$. You can run any tournament that you want as long as you run a tournament that is open to everyone who wants to compete, i.e. an open tournament. You can run a tournament for left handed Presbyterians named bruce if you think you cna get enough entries to make it work. The women's tournament is feasible because there are enough women who will compete knowing that they have the multiple division format and they do not have to compete against men. There is a seniors tournament that allows the older bowlers to compete against others on an equal basis. If you added a men's only tournament, you would lose the few women's entries, however you do not gain more men, just subdivide the entries. By percentage how many women are actually cashing versus how many actually enter the event. This just a case of good economics.

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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on February 11, 2008, 08:57:37 AM: It is a strange double standard. Either let everyone compete together or if you are going to separate them, separate them.

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Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: justdale on February 11, 2008, 09:10:18 AM: Thanks for that visual, but I think I will pass
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on February 11, 2008, 09:11:11 AM: quote:
If you allowed men to compete in a women's only tournament, in no time it would assuredly be dominated by men. It's the same reason men are not allowed to compete in women's tennis...unless you cut your willie off like Dr. Richards did. Maybe you could compete in the women's tournament if you lop off your wanker?

Couldn't you just say you did? I mean is someone going to check?
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Tom Cruise has officially reached Michael Jackson status.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: Pinbuster on February 11, 2008, 09:50:27 AM: Jimsey has it right. The USBC makes more money this way.

If they did away with the womenâ€™s tournament most of those would not go to the open tournament.

Most bowlers would not go to both an Open and Menâ€™s tournament unless they were held concurrently at the same site. And I doubt if enough extra entries would be made to make it worth while.

I believe even if the USBC merges with the BPAA they would continue to run both the tournaments because they do make money every year. When they quit making money they would dump it.

Now the Mixed tournament might be in trouble after a merger.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: notsohotshot on February 11, 2008, 10:29:40 AM: Why don't they set up the USBC tourney into brackets.It would make it a lot more fair.Why should all of us have to compete against the pros and all of the 220-230 average bowlers etc on an equal basis and on top of that we end up bowling on a condition most of us have never played before.I don't like making contributions to these people all the time.
Title: Re: Why two tournaments?
Post by: dpunky on February 11, 2008, 01:37:54 PM: quote:
Why don't they set up the USBC tourney into brackets.It would make it a lot more fair.Why should all of us have to compete against the pros and all of the 220-230 average bowlers etc on an equal basis and on top of that we end up bowling on a condition most of us have never played before.I don't like making contributions to these people all the time.

I like the brackets idea too for the USBC open tourney. I'd like the tourney to drop the requirement that all people that want to enter the single's event must be part of a team in order to compete. I would love to enter the singles event without having to bowl team. I just don't see USBC doing that.
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Ken - aka "dpunky" - Certified USBC Level I Coach