Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on December 21, 2008, 03:07:03 PM
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: MI 2 AZ on December 21, 2008, 11:16:35 PM
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I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
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Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on December 21, 2008, 11:24:26 PM
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: MI 2 AZ on December 21, 2008, 11:27:02 PM
There was no mass bias marking on it.
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I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
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Post by: MI 2 AZ on December 21, 2008, 11:34:09 PM
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on December 21, 2008, 11:38:06 PM
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: MI 2 AZ on December 21, 2008, 11:49:21 PM
I am biased for it, since I have three of them drilled up and have used one very recently when I started to struggle again. As I said, it makes a good benchmark ball for me to go back to and correct my game but probably not everyone will see it that way.
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
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Post by: Berserk on December 22, 2008, 09:39:01 AM
Nice Pic of the Core
Warlocks and the Sorcerer were a very smooth rolling because of the core.
The extra coverstock and dense core design helps add extra punch at the pins.
They were a great first line for visionary.
Anyone know if the blue warlock was the very first ball Visionary made?
Edited on 12/22/2008 10:41 AM
Post by: scotts33 on December 22, 2008, 09:44:40 AM
quote:
Anyone know if the warlock was the first ball Visionary made?
Warlock and Sorcerer were the first balls to come out in March of 97 then the DC Tours in early 98 was the way I remember it.
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Scott
Post by: Berserk on December 22, 2008, 01:58:15 PM
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on December 22, 2008, 02:24:11 PM
I have the sorcerer drilled up and was curious...
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Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: MI 2 AZ on December 23, 2008, 01:48:37 AM
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: charlest on December 23, 2008, 07:21:06 AM
I think both would work on medium oil today, maybe even a little more, but a bowler might need a little more ball speed to use the Sorcerer effectively than he would need with the BW (that early urethane lane grab). The BW's surface is, of course, much easier to modify than the Sorcerer's urethane.
The BW might be a better ball for most average rev rate & ball speed bowlers with an 800 or 1000 grit (US) surface.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Krumpy300 on December 23, 2008, 07:43:51 AM
Post by: charlest on December 23, 2008, 10:25:57 AM
quote:
How would a shined Sorcerer work on a big wet/dry condition???
For Parkway Lanes?
I don't think it will handle that much oil. Shined, it probably won't, but the emphasis is on "probably".
Still think you need something like the Ogre solid or the Ogre Particle.
If you want to try a solid urethane, I have a 16 lb Hi-Flare Scout urethane sititng idle. It's all shined up, but it won't take much to dull it to, of, say 1000 grit.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: MI 2 AZ on December 30, 2008, 01:51:54 PM
I went to the lanes today and brought both with me. Before I went, I restored both close to the factory finish (600 grit) by putting both in the spinner and using green scotch-brite pad on them. I don't think either was at that finish beforehand. The Red Sorcerer has less than 50 games on it and the Blue Warlock has probably close to 1000 games on it.
The lanes had just been oiled, 44 ft THS pattern. I got the worst pair in the house, lanes 1 and 2. They usually dont play anywhere the same, but for the purpose of this comparison, I played the same line just to watch the reactions.
Now, I was told it was the 44 ft pattern, but the balls did not play like it was. I was seeing a much earlier reaction from both balls than I would have expected to see but maybe that was from the 600 grit finish on both.
Basically, I was seeing a strong backend finish from both balls but it was not a skid-snap reaction, more of a strong even hook like both balls were trying to read the pattern in the mid-lane and finishing hard. I could not see much of a difference between the balls as far as length or boards covered. On some shots it seemed that the RS was stronger and on others the BW was stronger so it had to have been operator error. I really was hoping to see more of a difference somewhere, either in the backend or in the front of the lanes, but they were close to each other. Probably the fresh pattern was covering up the differences in the balls.
Usually, urethane should hook earlier and more evenly than reactive balls and that was what I was expecting to see. I think that the BW is a good reactive ball because it is more of an even reacting ball that gives a close look like a urethane and the RS is a stronger urethane ball so that both balls have a similar look on the lanes. But that's just my theory.
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I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: charlest on December 30, 2008, 05:52:15 PM
Thanks for that effort. It would have killed me to make both balls so strong and early.
It was 44 ft, I'd bet it wasn't a heavy oil pattern. That sure is long in any case. And lanes 1 & 2 in any house are usually one of the least used pairs.
I know the BW is supposed to be smooth, even and early. The RS is supposed to be grabby, esp. at 600 grit, like a Blue Hammer urethane. But I am very surprised at your results.
Any chance of your doing that again, on another day, on another pair, just as a check and balance type of operation???
Thanks a ton, from all of us.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on December 30, 2008, 06:05:49 PM
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: charlest on December 30, 2008, 06:23:24 PM
quote:
So what you're saying is the BW reacts like a Urethane? If I could find a ball that reacted IDENTICAL to my BLUE BEAST but hit a tad harder, I would be in heaven
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
One test does not a final, be-all-and-end-all result make!!!!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Berserk on December 30, 2008, 09:51:40 PM
Post by: MI 2 AZ on December 31, 2008, 04:33:18 PM
On this somewhat broken down condition, I did see more of a difference between the two balls but it was not a great difference. The RS had a more even arcing movement while the BW had a stronger backend reaction. They seemed to cover about the same number of boards in hook, but how they covered those boards was a bit different due to the coverstock - urethane vs reactive.
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I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
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Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on December 31, 2008, 05:09:38 PM
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Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on January 05, 2009, 11:05:56 PM
quote:
The Blue Warlock is much more aggressive overall than the Sorceror. Compared to many other reactive balls it is relatively mild and arching ball, but it is more aggressive than urethane.
Have you thrown the Red Sorceror???
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Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: Berserk on January 06, 2009, 06:57:18 AM
Post by: scotts33 on January 06, 2009, 06:59:25 AM
quote:
The Blue Warlock is much more aggressive overall than the Sorceror.
I wouldn't agree with this. I have both with basic same drill on same lane condtion Sorcerer is 3 to 4 boards total overall hook more and more backend.
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Scott
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on January 06, 2009, 10:43:27 AM
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Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: A_P_K on August 13, 2009, 10:44:27 AM
At it's current surface the over all hook is under my upper medium and over my lower medium equipment.
At OOB it was a dog, rolled out early and didn't do anything at all in the back. If I even got it to the pocket it hit like mush. I fought with it a few games received over under and the initial impression left a bad taste in my mouth. I kept it at 600 but had Black Magic applied to it by a spinner. That helped some but not a lot.
The league I use the BW on now oils longer and buffs to 44 feet but it is still a house shot. I would call the volume medium at best, nothing really more than that. I used it at that surface and had mixed reviews but received the reaction I was looking for. It helped blend out over under, was smooth rolling, controllable without any freakish backend turns. I found that even on some fresh oil the surface was a little too strong to bank off the wall since I don't have enough RPMs to stay inside the oil line. I also had less than stellar results playing tighter and straighter, carry suffered greatly.
I recently sanded it to 4000ab matte and it's a completely different ball. For the conditions I face the reaction became stronger. (for obvious reasons) Before I couldn't really play a swing shot, there wasn't much gas left on the back to finish, now the reaction is similar to my Break pearl. (which is slightly rolly by the way) The biggest difference the Blue Warlock revs up stronger coming off the pattern and has better drive through the pins. It gets down the lane much easier, doesn't require constant adjustments, the simplest ones get you back in business, and still handles the 44 foot pattern easily but finishes much cleaner. I still face less over under with the ball as before and have much more room for mistakes.
For a 12 year old ball the hitting power is tremendous, slaps pins across the deck and back, doesn't keep any wood low for me at all. The cover is extremely versatile, takes to adjustments easily. I prefer the 4000ab matte surface the best so far. It just absorbs oil a little more than I'd like it too.
It's working great as intended to for me on house walls, too bad I didn't pick one up 10 years ago.
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The original Pin Krusher
Post by: scotts33 on August 13, 2009, 10:57:28 AM
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Scott
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 13, 2009, 03:30:29 PM
A P K, were you able to see/read all two pages of this topic?
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I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: A_P_K on August 13, 2009, 04:56:33 PM
I possibly could have missed something though.All the talk about it has been the reason I purchased it and I couldn't be happier. You nailed it on the head with your description it's more of a benchmark type ball for me as well...than other's like the Heist and Code.
Bowling with it would be almost too easy if I didn't stink up the joint.
Oh and FYI Jeff and Krumpy - I know you asked about the Fireball Sorcerer but the BlW was plenty ball to handle Parkway's fresh condition at 4000ab matte. It reacted as described or expected as well.
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The original Pin Krusher
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 13, 2009, 11:44:57 PM
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")