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Author Topic: G-3  (Read 13974 times)

admin

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G-3
« on: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM »
Description:
The new dual-toned G-3 Gryphon takes the Gryphon II core used in the Burgundy Particle Gryphon and encases it with our new pearlized G-3 coverstock to create a ball that will get through the heads with ease, and retain it's energy for a very strong backend reaction.

This ball was designed for most medium conditions and has a true skid-snap reaction. As is the case for most pearlized reactives, the G-3 Gryphon produces the strongest reaction on fresh backends, but with the lower RG and higher differential (flare potential) it is able to get into a roll even with some carrydown.

Specifications:
Line Gryphon
Color Blue/Red
Coverstock Reactive Pearl
Core 2-piece
RG 2.497
Differential 0.056
Factory finish 1500 Polish
Weights 10 thru 16lbs
Lane Conditions Medium Oil

 

bwlrjmp

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Re: G-3
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2005, 04:47:50 PM »
Ball Specs: 15 lbs
  Pin: 3"
  Drilled: Label
  Surface: OOB

This ball is advertised as angular.  And it is very angular, but the turn is strong and consistent.  The ball reads the lane very well and is very long.  It hits the pins with a lot of power yet keeps the pins low.  This ball gives me the ability to play just about any line I wish from up the boards to moving in to around fourth arrow.  Coloring on the ball is darker than I thought it would be, but it is a nice color combo.  The G-3 quickly has become a ball that I know I can find a line with, when I need to make a ball change.  I am very pleased with all of the Visionary gear that I have gone by joining the Test Staff.  And I look forward to trying more of their equipment in the future.
--------------------
J. Pedersen
Visionary Test Staffer

jefftaker2002

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Re: G-3
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2006, 02:45:42 AM »
Ball Specs: 15 lbs
Pin: 5"
Drilled: Stacked
Surface: OOB
Lane Specs: AMF HPL Synthetic with 40 Foot Slight Christmas Tree Pattern


This Ball Is Just rediculos. Just Got Into The Test Staff At Visionary Bowling Products And From The First Throw And Still Now This Ball Goes Nicely Down Lane And Has A Nice Light Arc To Its Snap (* Very Controlable *). Fist 7 Shots With No Practice Strikes.

Recently took to 1000 Grit and now rolls a little sooner and now just smoth arck no snap and gets a little better carry.

Jim Brown

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Re: G-3
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2006, 06:04:05 PM »
I am a straight down four bowler I have beenusing the G-3 for about two months, it is by far the most forgiving ball I have ever owned. I mean if you tug it a little it will hold the line and if you get outside a little it will recover just fine, even with an out of bounds it will usually make it back to the pocket it might be a light hit but light is great with the G-3 because it really scatter's the pins. When the G-3 is flush in the pocket the pins don't stand a chance.Except an occasional eight pin. I have been bowling mainly on synthetic lanes with medium oil, and the ball is great. The G-3 does everythingVisionary said it would and more. I have never had a ball hit so hard.

ecc0_9879

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Re: G-3
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2006, 02:51:24 PM »
All right i have had the ball for about a 3 weeks now and have bowled in a few diff houses with it.

my gryphon is a 4 inch pin and had 3.06 top weight i have it stacked 3 3/8 with a weight hole 1 inch below pap oob this ball was way to strong so i took some 1000 grit abralon and smoothed it with that then took ultimate black magic polish and put a few coats on to tame it down

on wood lanes ths 42 feet of oil and an additinal 14 foot bump this ball is clean in fronts and really hooks a bunch in the back I play 33 to 12 and ball has no problem recovering by middle of second game the ball is on nose and have nomore room to move that is why i ordered a violet gargoyle and a slate blue gargoyle today


on synthetics 40 feet of oil ths this ball reallly shines i swing 20 to 12 and ball is clean and has a hard arc  in the backends plus on the night i bowled there i didnt have to move all night the ball really didnt burn my line up at all


overall this is probably my fav ball i have ever thrown i sold my 3 game black widow and my 15 game the one and ordeered the two above and am ordering the amb solid and the green and the amb partical my tourney bag will be ready


one final thought 1 month ago i called jason from visionary cause my distributer did not carry visionary as a few other distributers do not so they allow my proshop to factory direct order them since then we sold one yesterday and the guy ordered another for his gf today and we also ordered 5 more all it takes is gettign one of these visionarys in peeps hands and they really sell themselves it is what i am going to throw this year and if the products are like this for years to come

also i am not a test staff member i am just a person who tries 9 - 12 balls a year of diff companys i am just a guy who tried it and fell in love with the hit and carry and the ease of cover ajustment ant the face if you call visionay and ask them a drilling suggestion they are there to help


all my bowling stats are in my profile hope you guys try these and get the results that i am seeing

DR REVS

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Re: G-3
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2007, 03:50:41 PM »
drilled up my g-3 to use on second shift leagues when the head oil has broken down. left ball in box condition drilled with a 4.5 pin to pap drilling cg slightly to right of center of grip mb 90* to thumb. ball was very strong on the break point  and carried very well as it stored alot of energy once it got to the break point. started with left foot on twenty out across 15 to 3 and back to the pocket had to move left as the oil moved in if i didn't get it out to the dry the carry down would cause the ball to push and com in light. this ball work great on semi clean backends or outside dry boards but once carrydown is too much put it up and break out the immortal pearl.
--------------------
Shannon Williams
DR REVS
Bowlers Edge Proshop
Core Tech Member
Banger Bowling test staff
Visionary Test Staff
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lenstanles703

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Re: G-3
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2007, 04:20:57 PM »
This is a very strong ball. THS wood lanes, can't play up the boards without a lot of speed. Tried extra polish, same result. I have to swing this ball out from the middle to keep a consistant speed. Compared to ogre pearl, much stronger.
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"We are all one"
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br2300

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Re: G-3
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2007, 12:32:10 AM »
The G-3 was the first ball I drilled when I joined the test staff. The drilling on the ball was standard label with 3/4 finger weight and 1/2 side. Pin is right of ring finger and a little above. I took the surface down to 1000 abralon. Used on fresh house shot 36ft heavy volume in the middle, this volume tamed the backends, the most oil they have put down this year.
my specs:
tweener
speed 16-17mph
revs 280-300

 The ball skated through the heads and pickup nicely in the mids and turned up with a continues arc motion. On this particular condition playing up the boards, which is where I am most comfortable, I was able to pipe it up 9 and hold pocket or bump it out to 5 and still recovered. Overall I am very impressed with this ball and can't wait to throw the Frankie May, b/g Centuar, and pearl orge.


--------------------
Visionary Test Staff

dizzyfugu

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Re: G-3
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2009, 03:53:44 AM »
Visionary's G-3 Gryphon in a nutshell:
  • Strong old school reactive pearl piece
  • OOB well-suited for medium to medium-dry conditions
  • No surprises - a simple ball: responds well to hand and speed changes, easy to handle
  • A very good complement to the stronger solid reactive Frankie May Gryphon


    Why this ball?
    This is a story of faith and waiting... originally, I had ordered a G-3 Gryphon in summer 2007 at my local pro shop of trust (run by national team player Michael Kraemer in Duisburg, Germany) to fill the gap my retired Trauma had left just in the middle of my arsenal: a medium condition ball, pearl reactive, with good length for slightly burnt heads and a strong, continuous back end. The G-3 had been my first choice for several reasons:

    a) Technically, I wanted a pearl reactive with a symmetrical core, high differential (0.05” or more) and a RG not under 2.5". Checking the offerings at that time, the G-3's basic specs would fit.
    b) I already had a Frankie May Gryphon in my arsenal (drilled 4.5x4.5, pin under ring finger) which I simply love for its versatility and ease of control, a strong piece for medium to medium-oily shots with its 2.000 Abralon surface. I hoped the G-3 would basically be a similar ball, just for lighter conditions.
    c) The G-3 had already been on the market for some time (since Nov. 2003), so I hoped for a coverstock or total package that would not be as responsive/nervous to dry areas on the lane as current shell material - which creates big control issues for me through my game.

    The G-3 looked like a perfect candidate, so I ordered a ball with specs similar to my FMG to copy its rather arcing reaction, in hope to add length through the shiny surface and the pearl coverstock. In my arsenal, the ball should be a “lower gear” choice when the FMG starts burning out due to lack of oil in later games.

    Unfortunately, the order became a loooong story. The amateur/family enterprise for the import of Visionary's products here in Germany faced, eh, financial and personal problems, and it took the intervention and support of local pro shops to get the pipeline finally moving again in summer 2008.
    After waiting more than year and having already settled upon a Smash Zone as a second best choice (and which failed, check my review there), out of the blue I received a notice in November 2008 from my pro shop that 2 G-3 Gryphons had arrived, among them a 15 lbs. specimen that would finally make it into my bag

    About me:
    Style = Stroker/mild Tweener, right-handed
    Speed = ~14 mph
    PAP = 5" over & 7/8" up
    Axis tilt = ~20°
    Revs = ~275-300 RPM at release
    For more details, check out my profile, please.


    The ball and its setup:
    So, after 16 months of waiting, I held the following in my hands:

  • 15.15 lbs. gross weight
  • 3.5” pin distance
  • 2.65 ounces top weight

    That was almost perfect for my plans: copying the FMG’s smooth setup and rely on the shiny pearl shell to add length and handle less oil well. The only limit was the longer pin distance - originally I wanted a 2-2.5" pin to keep the pin under the fingers, but the 3.5" pin would place the CG very close to the thumb.
    Discussing options with Michael, he suggested a pin above the fingers, since many balls with this layout work fine with my lower speed. But I already had a Fuze Igniter with such a flippy layout in my bag, I wanted more of an arc in the back end in order to enhance control and predictability, and to have a reaction shape that was painfully missing in my arsenal. Additionally I knew from the only actual local G-3 user Dirk Baade (kind of amateur staffer and top level amateur player) who uses a G-3 with the pin above the fingers, that his ball would tend to be nervous for him on wet/dry conditions, a bit of hit or miss – nothing that I wanted out of the ball.

    Finally we drilled the ball 4.5x4.5 and put the pin in the ring finger hole position, as a compromise:

    ==========
    ===o=*====
    ==========
    ==========
    =====#====
    ====O=====
    ==========

    * = Pin (in ring finger hole position)
    # = CG

    Pictures of the ball can be found in the video provided below.

    No x-hole was necessary, CG went pretty close to the thumb, though, but the little top weight did not cause trouble. Clear oval grips plus a black urethane thumb slug completed the setup. I left the surface as it was, at 1.500 grit plus a coat of polish which is supposed to be a fine rubbing compound. Concerning the ball’s surface, many thanks to Jason Wonders' direct feedback upon this topic in the forums:



    quote:





    Hey Dizzy,
    I have made mention of it here before, but it's been a while. We basically have a homemade version of an industrial size Lustre King. It uses buffing wheels and polishing compounds.

    Essentially, this polishing machine takes a ball that is at approximately 400 from our sanding machine, and buffs and polishes it until it is at a 1500 grit polish. Because our polish is actually a buffing compound, it removes all of the sandlines and slowly brings it all the way up to 1500 polish.

    While it would be pretty tough to completely duplicate the process, scott is right in that most people have great success using either Storm's step 2 or Ebonites Factory Finish compound.

    A couple things to keep in mind when using polishes on reactive equipment.......1) Avoid polishes that contain wax, unless you want the ball to go pretty straight. 2) Make sure to use even pressure, otherwise you will have an uneven polish. 3) Lastly, make sure that you don't polish for too long, this can end up causing excessive length and an over/under reaction.








    The G-3 Gryphon in action:
    4:20 min. of ball data and performance footage and direct comparison with my Frankie May Gryphon and Lanemasters New Standard² on a typical and fresh THS on Duisburg’ Qubica 2004 synth surface.



     



    The testing program in detail:


    A) 37'ish sport bowler pattern, 2004 Qubica synth surface:
    The G-3's maiden flight took place at “Treff Bowling” in Duisburg, the pro shop’s location, immediately after drilling it up and during the 2008 Christmas holidays. Despite lots of social bowlers, some of the lanes were reserved and prepared for sport bowlers' training with what I’d call a modified gutter-to-gutter THS: high oil volume inside of the 2nd arrow and buffed outsides with no dry boards to prevent wide swing shots and “bumper shots” - a typical pattern encountered in league play. The lane was still fresh and pretty slick, I’d guess 18ml of oil, but the back end was clean and offered more than enough room to work with.

    To warm up and get a feeling for the lane, I started with my FMG which would work fine on a rather direct line standing 22nd board with my right shoe tip and playing across 2nd arrow, out into the 5th board area. Deeper lines would not work well, unless I'd keep the hook tight - the high oil volume in the lane's center area was just too much for my FMG's sheen 1.500 grit surface.

    Switching balls for the second game, the G-3 surprised me in two ways: It worked fine on a very similar line (feet at 21nd board, target 2nd arrow, tighter breakpoint at around 8th board), but it showed a different reaction shape: While the FMG displayed a clear skid/hook/roll pattern with a pretty angular break point, the G-3 was far more arcing - it went a bit longer (say 2') and then started a continuous curve into the pocket, both balls had very good carry upon impact.

    My explanation is that the FMG just has more traction once it leaves the oil. Its React-A-Tack coverstock is very strong, so I suppose the ball showed a kind of a "grab and go" performance, due to the sheen surface that tends to glide well through oily heads.
    The G-3 seemed to handle the end of the oil with less drama, gradually starting its hook and building up traction with its flaring core, yet with similar steam in the pocket. It looked much less “dramatic”, but worked just as fine as the FMG. The way the marked PAP on both balls moved looked pretty similar, it was just surprising to see how different the overall reaction shape was.

    I did just one full game with the new ball, but overall, the G-3 left a positive feeling and a 198 game. The ball did what I made it do intentionally, and it offered some good room for error through recovery if tugged too far outside – anything you could ask for.


    B) 37' fresh medium THS, older Brunswick AnvilLane:
    This time I tried the ball in a house that is less frequented by me, at “Joe's Superbowling” in Muelheim. This house is sanctioned for league and tournament play, but rather tends to social bowlers' needs (it is part of a mall). So, a THS was laid down, with most of the oil volume in the lane middle, buffed outsides and 3 dry boards at the gutter. Compared to the former sport bowler's shot at Duisburg, much less overall oil has present, 14ml I’d say.

    I tried a total of 3 balls to compare them with the G-3: my FMG as benchmark, my Revolution Renegade and the black Pure Hammer.

    a) the Frankie May Gryphon
    The strongest piece of the quartet, played on the deepest line: feet at 23rd-24th board, played across 13th board at the arrows out to 8th board. While it would look impressive with its pronounced sharp hook at the break point, it lacked steam in the pocket - the ball burned up in the back end, hitting weak and leaving splits or ugly spares like a 4-6-7-10 and the like. Simply too much ball for the condition at hand, and rather ineffective.

    b) the Renegade
    In my arsenal, the Renegade is currently the go-to piece for medium to medium-dry patterns and tighter lines, 1st choice on lighter tournament patterns. With its higher RG, medium differential and high pin setup above the ring finger it is a ball with good length and a sharp but not flippy hook. It would fit under the G-3.

    On the given condition, it felt right at home, esp. when the lane was still fresh. I lined up at 20th board with my feet and sent it, hand well behind the ball, across 2nd arrow out to the 8th board, where it would break with a surprisingly sharp hook and then head for the pocket. But as training continued, it suffered in later games, when the buffed oil zone was messed up, tending to burn up, too.

    c) the black Pure Hammer
    The weakest piece in the quartet, my tournament fallback option when anything else starts hooking too early, or too much. With its mellow cover and pin above the bridge it is suited for light conditions, delivering an arcing hook. Consequently, this ball had to be played on a line that was closest to the gutter: feet at 18th board, played across 8th board at the arrows in parallel to the gutter, the hand behind the ball for earlier recovery and good speed. The Pure Hammer proved highly effective on the THS, it hooked evenly and never lost power, and it was the ball that was most effective. Consequently, a clean 243 was the highest game of the session.

    d) the G-3 Gryphon
    Enter the final contender, used on both fresh and later conditions.
    Basically, I was able to use the G-3 on a line slightly inside of the Renegade's line (Feet at 21st-22nd board, aiming across 2nd arrow with a breakpoint a bit closer to the gutter) and, again, the G-3 had a much more even breakpoint than the FMG, and also smoother than the Renegade.
    Hitting the dry the G-3 would not flip, but rather arc in the back end (just as intended/hoped for), even though I was surprised that the ball still showed this rather mellow reaction shape on the given lighter condition. I expected it to be much sharper. But a 242 in a performance test like this with a new ball on foreign ground is not THAT bad.

    With the lane drying up in the course of the training, I found that release adjustments were the simplest way to keep the G-3 effective: I only needed to move one board deeper and just had to add more side rotation to lengthen the skid phase, and could easily hold the line. On the fresh lane, I used a flatter hand position to create more roll in the back end, about 30°, like the Renegade or Pure Hammer.
    During later games when anything else than my Pure Hammer was rather ineffective due to burnt heads, I increased the side rotation to about 75°, which stretched the overall hook a bit, but kept the number of covered boards the same without sacrificing control.

    Comparing the balls, the G-3 fell right between the FMG and the Renegade, both condition- and hook potential-wise. The way the FMG hungered for oil clearly showed the condition gap between these balls, which makes them IMO a good combo.
    What pleased me was the G-3's ability to handle even the late condition well, through simple release adjustments. The coverstock seems to bear that length I had been searching for in a pearl reactive, and it did not seem to be jumpy at all.

    Another surprise was the G-3's ability to handle the burnt lane better than the overall weaker Renegade, which just has solid coverstock (presumably PK18). My explanation is that the lower RG and higher differential allow the G-3 to get into a roll more easily after an intentionally prolonged skid phase - the Renegade needs more hand behind the ball to work, does not cover as many boards and seems therefore to be more limited.


    Some conclusions:
    A versatile piece for medium conditions and less. Being introduced in November 2003, it is IMO a very "middle of the road" piece from today's point of view - and that's nothing bad at all! But from personal judgement the G-3 is just not as flippy as advertised - at least with my setup. O.K., the advertising statement is a couple of years old, and with a higher pin than my setup, this could change – the “motor” inside is pretty strong, so I see a lot of potential to be tapped through a more aggressive setup, as well as with more revs than me.

    What I liked about the G-3 from the start is its easy handling. You can do a lot with it. Just like the FMG, the ball provides good feedback from the lane and reacts well to release changes. I think that this can be contributed to the strong but simple symmetrical Gryphon core. Adjusting to changing conditions is very easy with the G-3, and since the ball handles a good range of conditions, it is IMO a very good choice for bowlers who want just a single ball that covers a broad band of medium to lighter conditions. It is a piece that makes remaining competitive through longer formats easy.

    It won't handle lots of oil, though. OOB, the G-3 is quite allergic to oil – but this could again be the result of 5 years of technology advancement since it was launched. It does not like carrydown, even though the high differential and rolly core compensate for the polished coverstock's lack of traction. With the hand behind the ball, the G-3 shows a decent performance even on longer oil, but this is not its home turf. Just do not expect too much out of it in this case. Not sure if opening up the surface makes it more suitable for more oil, but I think that’s not what the ball was designed for.
    From another point of view, this trait gives the OOB G-3 very good length as long as just a little oil is left in the heads. And in contrast to more aggressive coverstocks like e. g. Brunswick's EnMotion (on the Smash Zone or Twisted Fury Pearl), the G-3 does not overreact upon contact with friction.

    I haven’t tampered with the surface yet, but I do not see any need, both reaction- and durability-wise. From the total games I made with the ball so far it did neither track out nor show any sign of wear or loss of reaction, even though it sucks up oil at an impressive rate. The G-3 seems to be in line with the robust nature of the Visionary balls I have owned so far. It appears pretty durable.
    But… as a negative surprise, though, the engravings started to fall apart just after 5 games! The neon pink “VBP” logo came loose en masse, looked as if it would not cling well to the coverstock. It is just a cosmetical issue, and I have seen this happen to other VPB balls around here (another G-3, an Immortal Solid and an Ogre), but I think this is something that can be improved to keep the good overall quality impression up.

    Overall, I am content with the ball's performance. It fits into the intended arsenal gap, and with the FMG as a benchmark my expectations were high and not disappointed.

    Personal rating scale:

    Length/through the heads:
    Easy 000000X000 Needs head oil

    Breakpoint shape:
    Arc 00000X0000 Angular

    Hook potential:
    Low 00000X0000 High

    Control:
    Stable 000000X000 Erratic

    Durability:
    Poor 00000000X0 High

    Suited for…
    Dry 00XXXXX000 Oily

    Range of utility/lane conditions:
    Limited 0000000X00 Broad

    Subjective overall rating:
    Poor 0000000X00 Excellent


    Scale is inspired by popular rating methods. Surface prep and drillings may change the results, it is just personal experience with the reviewed ball

    Lane utility for tested ball at OOB surface (pattern length vs. oil volume):


    |S M L
    |h e o
    |o d n
    |r . g
    |t
    _______
    |0 + X| Light volume
    |X X X| Medium volume
    |+ + 0| Heavy volume

    Legend:
    X = Best suited with effective control & carry
    + = Fairly suited (works, somehow, but can lack control and effectiveness)
    0 = Unsuited (ineffective, either slips helplessly or burns up)


    The chart concept is borrowed from Storm's 2003 print catalogue. Again, surface prep and drillings may change the results


    Finally... the looks:
    I am not a fan of red/blue balls, I find this colour choice rather dull. But I must say that my specimen, which has a lot of cherry red with just thin (very) dark blue swirls to offer, looks pretty. It reminds me and others who saw it on the rack of the Black Widow Pearl.

    Another thing I like about this "older" piece is that it just has two engravings: the VBP-logo in neon pink (sounds horrible, but matches the cherry red basic tone of the ball well) and the Gryphon logo in white - nothing else (mine even does not have a visible pin anymore, adding to the "stealth" appearance). That's almost understatement among today's garish designs – too bad that my specimen started losing the engraving filler so quickly...
    --------------------
    DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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  •  


    Edited on 26.09.2011 at 7:22 AM

     
    Edited on 26.10.2011 at 3:51 AM
    DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany

    bowlingaddiction

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    Re: G-3
    « Reply #24 on: June 01, 2009, 02:46:58 PM »
    Just punched this ball today. Bowled about 10 games with it. Great ball. Gets clear through the heads before giving me a skid/snap reaction. Another great look from Visionary. Really good go in the 2-5 ball range in a 6 ball arsenal. Will be taking to USBC in Vegas in a few weeks and I update after that

    Gene J Kanak

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    Re: G-3
    « Reply #25 on: April 14, 2010, 04:34:47 PM »
    This one was given to me by gsback (excellent guy/trader/seller).

    Drilling: Pin even and about 2-3" right of ring, cg stacked beneath. For me, this is roughly a 3x2.

    Surface: gsback said he took it down from the factory 1500 + polish, so I'm not sure what it's at, but it still has som gloss

    Lane condition: Broken down house shot (old wood lanes)

    Reaction: I expected this ball to be long and flippy. I was wrong. The ball does push through the heads, but it digs into the midlane earlier than my Ogre pearl, and it is extremely stable on the backend. Where the Ogre pearl seems to charge on the back, the G3 just seems to roll. I found my best playing a small belly from 19 to around 13-14. From there, the G3 offered a very firm read and a great deal of control. Because of the ball's rolly nature and the area I was playing, the hit was entirely dependent on my ability to keep the ball rolling properly. It was not as friendly to release differences as the Ogre.

    Overall: Thus far, the G3 is not the long, flippy ball I thought it would be. However, that's not a bad thing. Instead, it is earlier and even more stable then my Ogre Pearl. I think it will be a great choice as a control ball when the lanes are drying up or when I don't feel like playing the big wheel with something more aggressive. Again, not quite what I expected, but sometimes you don't get pleasantly surprised, like I did with this one.
    --------------------
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    mroldschool

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    • If ya can't swing it, YOUR throwing A crappy ball!
    Re: G-3
    « Reply #26 on: May 27, 2013, 06:21:31 AM »
    LANE CONDITION

    Length:41

    Volume: don't know

    Type (THS, Sport Pattern etc): ths,


    COMMENTS Another purchase from mr. kanak...The span in this one was a little longer, but plugged the thumb, moved it up, change out the grips, and wa-la. I've thrown some hooking pearls ie. X-factor, adrinaline, dynasty, that made me think that it's possible for myself to roll one of these's and show some gut to finish! Man the reaction i had the first time I rolled the G-3 gryphon I was surprised! I have read the reviews, but I did not expect the movement like this! I could roll this one out to the break, and it came hard to the pocket! It said to used this on a medium condition? Yeah, with a ton of oil in the middle, this ball hunts for some dry so it can show it's true nature. And oh before I forget shooting a 750 with this one after the thumb move! I just keep this one at 2000 abralon, shined!

    Likes: Like the older visionary stuff, I carefull not to track it up, for fear of not getting another one!

    Dislikes:not made any longer :-\


    PICTURES AND/OR VIDEOS