win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...  (Read 3157 times)

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
(NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« on: December 07, 2007, 11:34:41 AM »
Next:
While it is obviously not the most important question in the world about bowling balls, I think it might be a good idea to consider specifying the mass bias strength of your asymmetric/mass bias cores. Can you? Would you?

I am the last person to want you to get into a contest over the numbers, but it would us a good idea of how important the mass bias positioning is and maybe a small window into what we can expect of the ball and what changes in the MB position can be hoped to accomplish.

I mean that there is a large POTENTIAL difference in peformance and in drilling requirement for a ball with a .010" mass bias differential and in one with a .030" mass differential, for most people.
 
Thanks again.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you, again, for answering this First question:
Is the coverstock on the Blue/Green Centaur used on any other ball?

Thanks.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Edited on 12/12/2007 7:28 AM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

 

VBPadvertising

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 04:16:08 PM »
Hi Charlest,

The exact cover is not used on anything else, but a very close derivative of the cover is on the Violet Gargoyle.  The coverstock is actually a little stronger than most people think, but because of the core in the B/G Centaur, the cover seems to be weaker than it actually is.

Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 05:31:38 PM »
Thanks, Jason.

The cover isn't too weak at all. I can't use it at the stock 1000 grit. It needs to much oil, but at 2000 grit, with that ZERO flare core, it's perfect for me for light oil. With polish or 4000 grit, it handles even less.

I picked up a Violet when the Gargoyles were discontinued. Now I have a great reason to drill it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 09:07:24 AM »
Jason?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

MI 2 AZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8152
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2007, 07:21:51 PM »
Emailed Jason a link to this.

--------------------

I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________

New to BR? - Please check this:  BR FAQ
_________________________________________
Six decades of league bowling and still learning.

ABC/USBC Lifetime Member since Aug 1995.

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2007, 03:18:25 PM »
thanks.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

scotts33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8451
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2007, 06:13:29 PM »
FYI......Jason may come to this site twice a week if lucky especially with newborn.  For ALL of those except Jeff.  Call him or e-mail.

Rolled a 278 w/ B/G Centaur in tourney today but still got shut out.  Yuck!
--------------------
Scott

Scott

VBPadvertising

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007, 04:05:10 PM »
Hi Charlest,

Sorry about the delay in responding, but I was unaware that this thread had changed until MI 2 AZ contacted me via email.

Now, on to your questions......

While it is obviously not the most important question in the world about bowling balls, I think it might be a good idea to consider specifying the mass bias strength of your asymmetric/mass bias cores. Can you? Would you?

Could we?  Yes.  Would we?  I don't know.  Honestly, I think the manufacturers are putting out way more information than necessary as it is.    If we put out all of the technical information that we get from a bowling ball, even most of the very good pro shop operators who have well above average intelligence would get confused with the figures.  

Out of curiosity, when you speak of mass bias strength, which variation are you speaking of?  Do you mean strength based on spin time with a Determinator or similar machine?  Do you mean a number based on comparisons within our line (like the 1-100 numbers)?  Or do you mean the intermediate differential (the difference between the high and middle RG measurements)?  Each of these will tell you something a little bit different.

See, here is the thing, any real shift in weight from the center of a ball could be considered a mass bias.  In addition, a cores mass bias strength varies depending on what shell material is used on the ball.  It is possible to create a core that has a high mass bias strength, yet when you encapsulate it with the shell material, you end up with virtually no mass bias strength whatsoever.

If you want to get really technical, something like our Immortals have 3 seperate mass bias locations due to caps that are located outside of the central body.  That being said, most people view a "mass bias" as the dense portion of the core that protrudes from the central body and pulls the CG in a direction away from the pin.  Using this basic definition, you would say that the Immortal has one mass bias (which is actually a negative mass bias, because the cap on the side is actually lighter than the shell material, creating a true mass bias opposite the cap location).

I assume that when you go on to talk about the mass bias differential, you are talking about the intermediate differential.  Having a high intermediate differential vs a low intermediate differential, could have an impact on how you lay the ball out, but the overall differential has a greater effect on the balls performance than the intermediate differential.  Also, keep in mind that once you drill the ball, you are changing the balls RG, Differential and mass bias strength, especially if you drill in to a dense portion of the core.  You could start out with a ball that has a high intermediate differential and end up with a ball that has a low intermediate differential based on the way the ball is drilled.

The question for me, is at what point do we stop?  My concern is that we can get too in depth with technical information and end up spending every waking hour on the phone with pro shops and bowlers trying to explain all of the details on our equipment. We could probably write 50 pages of technical information on every ball that we release, most of which would be completely unnecessary and make absolutely no sense to bowlers.

OK, now that I am off my soap box....lol, listing an intermediate differential wouldn't take much effort, and is probably something that we should think about doing.

Thanks again,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: (NEXT {12/12/07}) Question for Jason Wonders...
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007, 06:32:17 PM »
Jason,

YOu've made your point. Indeed, many people don't even know what to do with the RG and the RG differential. And there are more confused "Pro Shop" drillers than you can shake a stick at, many still ignoring the pin itself.

Of course, I did mean the intermediate differential, and there are people who do know what to do with it and who need and want to know it. It is, I believe, the common reference among most other asymmetric/mass bias core producers.

Thank you for considering it.

FYI I was surprised that the MB position on the Blue/Green Centaur was significant in drilling, even though for safety's sake, when I drilled mine, I placed it around the thumb hole are. I figured it might not be important, since the RG differential was so tiny that the MB intermediate differential, also was very small. I have gotten very good reactions from my BG Centaurs. Marvelous ball, by the way. Gracias!

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ
"None are so blind as those who will not see."