BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Visionary => Topic started by: JamminJD on March 22, 2016, 12:54:51 PM
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Please leave a comment if you would about the way you voted.
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I still throw my Violet Gargoyle. Great all-around ball for me and still plenty strong.
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None of the above lol
Only one I've had was the Raven. I liked it and threw it well but it overlapped with other balls I have. I'd get another one but drill it different
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Very good stuff, well produced, lasts a long time, and you can get in direct touch with the owners pretty much anytime you have a question about a product. Very responsive and the folks are very easy and nice to work with.
Some of their stuff has lasted years with little loss of performance. I still have an original Orange Black Ogre, made in 07, that still has use. I have a Blue Green Centaur that has been with me for over a decade. No issues with either ball.
As for the newer stuff, the Raven Attack is a very good looking ball in person and performs very well on the lanes. When the Attach is too much, I switch out to either my Raven if I just need a little more push, or down to the Blue Warlock XV if I need more push.
I also have the Invasion and Warlock XV pearl...but both are pearls and I just do not agree with pearls very well, so they don't see the lanes much.
If the Warlocks are too much ball, I do ball down to the Centaur Blue Green. There is really no ball available right now from Visionary that fits the bill for less than the Warlock Pearl.
I have an Ogre Urethane still...that is a unique piece.
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I had a New Breed Pearl and it was bad.
I'll stick w/my Storm/Roto stuff.
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The only Vis ball I have and use now is the Blue/Green Centaur. I used to use more of them at one time.
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I had a New Breed Particle Pearl for a while. I still regret selling that one.
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I had a green Gargoyle that I used for med light oil back in the day.
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I wish I had the purple ogre, immortal pearl and immortal solid back.
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I wish I had my Ogre Particle and Granite Gargoyle back. I tossed them so much. Ogre got stuck in a machine and was demolished and I sold the Granite for some STUPID reason.
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Very good stuff, well produced, lasts a long time, and you can get in direct touch with the owners pretty much anytime you have a question about a product. Very responsive and the folks are very easy and nice to work with.
Some of their stuff has lasted years with little loss of performance. I still have an original Orange Black Ogre, made in 07, that still has use. I have a Blue Green Centaur that has been with me for over a decade. No issues with either ball.
As for the newer stuff, the Raven Attack is a very good looking ball in person and performs very well on the lanes. When the Attach is too much, I switch out to either my Raven if I just need a little more push, or down to the Blue Warlock XV if I need more push.
I also have the Invasion and Warlock XV pearl...but both are pearls and I just do not agree with pearls very well, so they don't see the lanes much.
If the Warlocks are too much ball, I do ball down to the Centaur Blue Green. There is really no ball available right now from Visionary that fits the bill for less than the Warlock Pearl.
I have an Ogre Urethane still...that is a unique piece.
Well put WOWZERS, I didn't know you had thrown that many VBP. You gave some great and honest insight into VBP. Appreciate the responses so far..
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Jammin
I have thrown from Visionary:
New Breed Solid
New Breed Particle Pearl
Gladiator Solid
Spartan
Samurai
Ogre Orange Black
Ogre Purple Black
Ogre SS
Ogre Particle
Ogre Urethane
Centaur Blue Green
AMB Particle Centaur (holy cow that was a lot of ball)
AMB Solid Centaur
Raven
Raven Attack
Raven Invasion
Warlock XV
Warlock XV Pearl
Granite Gargoyle
Violet Gargoyle
Slate Blue Urethane Gargoyle
Immortal Solid
Burgundy Gryphon
Note: I did not throw ANY of the Mixed Breeds, which is the ball that had issues because the original mark on the ball was the PSA, not the mass bias, and the ball is a Z spin ball...so unless you had this knowledge, some balls were mapped wrong and the reaction was poor.
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I own quite a few Visionary balls (43) and still use some of them on a regular basis. The oldest ones I still use is the Blue Warlock and the Amulet. My driller has remarked on how hard it is to drill them and how thick the coverstock is.
If you ever have any questions about any of their balls, you can call or email them and they are very helpful.
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Jammin
I have thrown from Visionary:
New Breed Solid
New Breed Particle Pearl
Gladiator Solid
Spartan
Samurai
Ogre Orange Black
Ogre Purple Black
Ogre SS
Ogre Particle
Ogre Urethane
Centaur Blue Green
AMB Particle Centaur (holy cow that was a lot of ball)
AMB Solid Centaur
Raven
Raven Attack
Raven Invasion
Warlock XV
Warlock XV Pearl
Granite Gargoyle
Violet Gargoyle
Slate Blue Urethane Gargoyle
Immortal Solid
Burgundy Gryphon
Note: I did not throw ANY of the Mixed Breeds, which is the ball that had issues because the original mark on the ball was the PSA, not the mass bias, and the ball is a Z spin ball...so unless you had this knowledge, some balls were mapped wrong and the reaction was poor.
The Mix Breeds were good balls, but like you mentioned the Z spin issue (which I don't want to turn this thread into Z spin that has been beat enough)
I have/had all those except the Immortals the Spartan and the Burgundy Gryphon. They have had a lot of great balls and the Ravens are great and I really like the Samurai. To me the Ogre line is one of the best ever, that line could handle anything.
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Jammin
Agreed on all points. At one point I had the 5 Ogres, the Blue Green Centaur, and a Starburst Lane 1 plastic spare ball. The only times I had issues was flood city when there was just too much for the Ogre Particle to handle. With the lower diff and higher RG, the ball just wouldn't face up quick enough.
Burgundy Gryphon was a ton of ball. Immortal was too much flare for me.
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I currently own 3 midnight scorchers, great on tournament patterns with heavy oil
2 Purple Ice Executioners, my favorite ball of all time
a granite Gargoyle
a centaur AMB Particle -- my second go round with this one -- didn't match up well with the amb core --this one I put a 320 hook/set drilling on it, haven't gotten to use this one enough yet to see if this drilling is better for me
a Gladiator solid -- love this ball when I can use it
a Gladiator LE -- love this ball, gets much more use than the solid
a Scorcher NPT -- my second go round with one of these....with a high flare drilling on it I actually like this one.
a Green/blue centaur -- also my second go round with one of these. The first one I owned I absolutely hated -- picked up another one last year and put a 320 degree hook/set drill on it and now I like it
a crimson Executioner --- really like it when I can use it
a warlock dc -- not really sure about that one, but still have it
clear Amulet -- I should have kept that one--but I have a clear wolf now
an immortal solid -- never really matched up with the core -- no longer own it
Bronze centaur pearl -- never really matched up to that ball either -- no longer own it
Gladiator pearl -- hated it --- bought it used -- it was already drilled twice , once for a righty and once for a lefty, which might be the main reason that ball never rolled right or consistently-- no longer own it
Spartan -- never handled the conditions as I was led to believe it would -- tried multiple surfaces and redrilled it and didn't like it at all...no longer own it
Brad
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I would really like to try Visionary but for a variety of reasons I haven't yet (though, it's not because they are a small company). The Ravens look great to me, as does the Samurai and a few other pieces. I don't think anybody in my leagues throws Visionary balls so I haven't been able to watch them roll firsthand. One of these days...
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I STILL HAVE A CLASSIC IN THE ROTATION, AND A GLADIATOR PEARL ON THE SHELF.
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As many know, I have used Visionary since their inception. I have used every VBP ball since then except for some of the z-spinners. I had some issues with the z-spinner balls which has been beat to death and I won't go into.
I currently use a 2016 Warlock Hybrid XV (medium to medium-heavy) and an old 2006 Blue/Green Centaur (light).
I have many 15 and 16 lb. older VBP stored away as keepsakes that I shot many honor scores with. All the great balls from the past Warlocks, Gargoyles, Executioners, Ogre.
I can't wait til next fall when the Ogre line is replaced hopefully. I also see a Raven Invasion in my future to bad my bowling season will be ending shortly otherwise I'd try more.
I have never has a VBP ball crack and they are all long lasting. Great customer service from some of the best folks in the industry. I see good things for VBP in the future.
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As many know, I have used Visionary since their inception. I have used every VBP ball since then except for some of the z-spinners. I had some issues with the z-spinner balls which has been beat to death and I won't go into.
I currently use a 2016 Warlock Hybrid XV (medium to medium-heavy) and an old 2006 Blue/Green Centaur (light).
I have many 15 and 16 lb. older VBP stored away as keepsakes that I shot many honor scores with. All the great balls from the past Warlocks, Gargoyles, Executioners, Ogre.
I can't wait til next fall when the Ogre line is replaced hopefully. I also see a Raven Invasion in my future to bad my bowling season will be ending shortly otherwise I'd try more.
I have never has a VBP ball crack and they are all long lasting. Great customer service from some of the best folks in the industry. I see good things for VBP in the future.
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi132.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq29%2Fscotts33%2FBowling%2520Equipment%2F51046bf8-6f97-428a-b60e-241d6cfc5245_zpsfuroz1ze.jpg&hash=5ba3cd85de88bcf86f6241bb6f946a26e5941b10)
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I was wondering when you would come to the party! Great to have you post and hope you can post a lot more in the future, you have the most wealth of knowledge about Visionary and the bowling balls.
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Started rolling Visionary in 1997. Orange Warlock, high series this ball 782 (still have). Currently have Warlock XV and XV pearl, Violet Gargoyle, Frankie May Gryphon, & urethane Ogre . Had AMB Centaur, Green Gargoyle. Visionary is a great company to work with. They have a great quality rating(IMO). Check out their website. I am a Lefty, average 185-195, tweener style.
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Recently plugged and drilled a Raven Invasion for myself. First VBP for myself. With my specs, it works great with dryer conditions. Would love to try another for more oil. Any suggestions?
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had a slate blue gargoyle, blue sparkle gryphon and a G3. all good bowling balls, just moved on to difference companies.
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Invasion is the pearl version of the Raven Attack. Attack has a solid cover, so by nature, it will handle more oil. VBP covers are very easy to work with, so you could try it at factory surface and adjust as you see fit.
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I used to throw Visionary stuff primarily back in 2002 and 2003. Had all of the Gargolyes (Which included the clear spare ball with the Gargoyle in it that I still have), and the Gryphons. By far, the best of that bunch for me was the Blue Sparkle Gryphon. I loved that ball and could work it on multiple types of lane conditions. Wish I had never gotten rid of it.
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It good to see that people really like their VBP and still have a open mind about them.
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Just received another Warlock XV pearl (sitting by me) and will be ordering a new Raven and Invasion within the next week.
Wish VBP had more users, but by the same token, the little company can stay responsive to customers. Wish nothing but the best for the Wonders! I will continue to use VBP for as long as I can see.
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I currently am throwing a blue/green centaur. I got rid of the one I had, and regretted it so much, that I have spent the last year keeping my feelers out for another. Got lucky, and walked into the shop a couple of weeks ago, only to find a fully plugged and in pristine condition one on the for sale rack. It now resides at my house, as I honestly consider this one of those "must have" balls for my game. Will NOT be gatting rid of this one.
I was a BIG fan of Visionary. I found out they were the people that had originally been the Faball creators, and I LOVED the old Hammers back in the urethane era, so I gave them a try. They were impressive and really fit my game well, so I had actually gotten to the point where they were the only ball I would throw.
I have had:
Blue/Green Centaur----3
Green Gargoyle---------3
Granite Gargoyle--------2
Immortal Pearl----------1
Charcoal Executioner---3
Blue Sparkle Gryphon--2
Burgundy Gryphon------1
Warlock DC Tour--------1
Red Sorceror------------1
"Blurple" Ogre-----------1
Orange/Black Ogre------1
FM Gryphon--------------1
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Wowzers, I agree a hundred percent. Visionary will be in my bag as long as I bowl!!!!!!!!
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I had a couple different Visionary balls in my bag from 2007 until a year or two ago. The main reason I don't use Visionary anymore, is that I am forced to use an online pro shop atm, and they don't carry Visionary balls. I used to buy the ball directly from VBP and take them to the local shop, and that's no longer possible. I would love to try the new Warlock, and I always loved the Ogre core so the Raven would be something I would like to try.
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Eddie
Any chance on the Pro Shop you use online would accept a drop order? I ask as I could envision a scenario where you order direct from VBP, have VBP ship direct to the Pro Shop, Pro Shop drills and then sends to you.
Have you asked if the Pro Shop would accept an arrangement like this?
Just a thought as I loved the Ogre stuff as well and the Raven Attack is just $$ for me right now. Remember, same core shape, but the Ogres did not have a wrap for an outer core, the Ravens have a wrap, and the diff and RGs are quite different in the Ravens compared to the Ogres.
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Eddie M:
There is a website called Bowlerscellar.com that carries several Visionary items. It is currently under reconstruction, but when it returns check it out. That is where I got both of my Warlocks. No where in my area carries Visionary.
Visionary strong since 97
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Seeing as I help out VBP a bit, you know I use them a lot.
I do have a few other balls, Got a Big B soul i won in a raffle ( who can argue with a ball drilled for 9.00) and just got a Ridiculous Asym for 70 drilled. So far not real pleased with it.
But for the last 3-4 years its been 98% Visionary. The Ravens are fantastic balls, and forsee them staying in the bag for quite a while. Need to replace the Warlock pearl as mine was 15lbs originally and with my wrist its too heavy.
My Son exclusively uses VBP. and as soon as he can handle 14lbs will have a wide variety to choose from! 12yr old.. High series 587 High game 252 this year using a Gladiator and a MB Crossover.
And just to echo everyone else.. You cant get better customer service anywhere than VBP. Jason and crew are amazing to work with.
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I currently own 3 midnight scorchers, great on tournament patterns with heavy oil
2 Purple Ice Executioners, my favorite ball of all time
a granite Gargoyle
a centaur AMB Particle -- my second go round with this one -- didn't match up well with the amb core --this one I put a 320 hook/set drilling on it, haven't gotten to use this one enough yet to see if this drilling is better for me
a Gladiator solid -- love this ball when I can use it
a Gladiator LE -- love this ball, gets much more use than the solid
a Scorcher NPT -- my second go round with one of these....with a high flare drilling on it I actually like this one.
a Green/blue centaur -- also my second go round with one of these. The first one I owned I absolutely hated -- picked up another one last year and put a 320 degree hook/set drill on it and now I like it
a crimson Executioner --- really like it when I can use it
a warlock dc -- not really sure about that one, but still have it
clear Amulet -- I should have kept that one--but I have a clear wolf now
an immortal solid -- never really matched up with the core -- no longer own it
Bronze centaur pearl -- never really matched up to that ball either -- no longer own it
Gladiator pearl -- hated it --- bought it used -- it was already drilled twice , once for a righty and once for a lefty, which might be the main reason that ball never rolled right or consistently-- no longer own it
Spartan -- never handled the conditions as I was led to believe it would -- tried multiple surfaces and redrilled it and didn't like it at all...no longer own it
Brad
Man Brad sounds like you have had a lot of interesting times throwing VBP. I never got to throw any Scorchers wish I would have. Also never got to throw the Executioners either. I loved my B/G Centaur but it was stolen at a bowling center during a tournament. I liked the Gladiators never had the LE.
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I would really like to try Visionary but for a variety of reasons I haven't yet (though, it's not because they are a small company). The Ravens look great to me, as does the Samurai and a few other pieces. I don't think anybody in my leagues throws Visionary balls so I haven't been able to watch them roll firsthand. One of these days...
Hey John, you just need to dive in there and try VBP!! I think you will like the Raven series. I am a BIG fan of the Samurai, I shot 799 out of the box with that ball. I have two of them and just ordered a third, you can get good reactions out of those 4 balls alone. I shot 788 with the Raven attack and Invasion back in Feb. Let me know if you have any more questions.
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Recently plugged and drilled a Raven Invasion for myself. First VBP for myself. With my specs, it works great with dryer conditions. Would love to try another for more oil. Any suggestions?
Yes try the other two Raven's, the original which has some light load particle in the cover and the Raven attack which is the solid are great, and the Samurai is also a great ball. Plus theeir are some new pieces coming in the future..
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:D
had a slate blue gargoyle, blue sparkle gryphon and a G3. all good bowling balls, just moved on to difference companies.
Maybe one day you can give them another shot.
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Just received another Warlock XV pearl (sitting by me) and will be ordering a new Raven and Invasion within the next week.
Wish VBP had more users, but by the same token, the little company can stay responsive to customers. Wish nothing but the best for the Wonders! I will continue to use VBP for as long as I can see.
Great to hear, I just ordered another warlock pearl and Raven and Samurai.
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I currently am throwing a blue/green centaur. I got rid of the one I had, and regretted it so much, that I have spent the last year keeping my feelers out for another. Got lucky, and walked into the shop a couple of weeks ago, only to find a fully plugged and in pristine condition one on the for sale rack. It now resides at my house, as I honestly consider this one of those "must have" balls for my game. Will NOT be gatting rid of this one.
I was a BIG fan of Visionary. I found out they were the people that had originally been the Faball creators, and I LOVED the old Hammers back in the urethane era, so I gave them a try. They were impressive and really fit my game well, so I had actually gotten to the point where they were the only ball I would throw.
I have had:
Blue/Green Centaur----3
Green Gargoyle---------3
Granite Gargoyle--------2
Immortal Pearl----------1
Charcoal Executioner---3
Blue Sparkle Gryphon--2
Burgundy Gryphon------1
Warlock DC Tour--------1
Red Sorceror------------1
"Blurple" Ogre-----------1
Orange/Black Ogre------1
FM Gryphon--------------1
I know what you mean about the B/G that ball is special! You have thrown a lot of VBP. Maybe soon you can give them another try, I think you will like the current pieces and beyond.
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Seeing as I help out VBP a bit, you know I use them a lot.
I do have a few other balls, Got a Big B soul i won in a raffle ( who can argue with a ball drilled for 9.00) and just got a Ridiculous Asym for 70 drilled. So far not real pleased with it.
But for the last 3-4 years its been 98% Visionary. The Ravens are fantastic balls, and forsee them staying in the bag for quite a while. Need to replace the Warlock pearl as mine was 15lbs originally and with my wrist its too heavy.
My Son exclusively uses VBP. and as soon as he can handle 14lbs will have a wide variety to choose from! 12yr old.. High series 587 High game 252 this year using a Gladiator and a MB Crossover.
And just to echo everyone else.. You cant get better customer service anywhere than VBP. Jason and crew are amazing to work with.
Totally agree Matt.
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Jammin
Which Raven did you order?
I am close to pulling the trigger on an original Raven, an Invasion, and a Samurai real soon.
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Jammin
Which Raven did you order?
I am close to pulling the trigger on an original Raven, an Invasion, and a Samurai real soon.
I got another Raven, got a short pin ,going to drill it rico or close to it. Just shot 788 with Attack and Invasion. I really like the Samurai, very underated ball.
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Good choice. I RICO'ed everything for about a year...then everything just started too early and I needed to get some lope through the heads so I moved away from RICO...but good choice.
Also.........
I came across today, 14#....NIB......
AMB Particle Centaur
Yes, its mine.
I also know that the chances of me using this on anything short of a 50' pattern with triple oil is highly unlikely, but it is that one ball I will always take with me when I travel to make sure I can get something to wrinkle.
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If you built an arsenal out of the current lineup of Visionary equipment, how would it all generally stack up? I have absolutely no reference point to go off of for their stuff. They seem to be very highly regarded around here and if I eventually decide to get one a Visionary ball it would be nice to know how/where it fits in my bag.
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If you built an arsenal out of the current lineup of Visionary equipment, how would it all generally stack up? I have absolutely no reference point to go off of for their stuff. They seem to be very highly regarded around here and if I eventually decide to get one a Visionary ball it would be nice to know how/where it fits in my bag.
You can start with the Ravens and the samurai. Their is some more stuff coming but it's a little ways away and I don't want to say to much.
You can get a warlock cv pearl and drill it weaker for drier lanes.
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Good choice. I RICO'ed everything for about a year...then everything just started too early and I needed to get some lope through the heads so I moved away from RICO...but good choice.
Also.........
I came across today, 14#....NIB......
AMB Particle Centaur
Yes, its mine.
I also know that the chances of me using this on anything short of a 50' pattern with triple oil is highly unlikely, but it is that one ball I will always take with me when I travel to make sure I can get something to wrinkle.
That ball is a beast, greatest heavy oil ball ever! In my opinion.
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I had an AMB Pearl a while back. Threw it off and on for about 1 year. It was hit or miss for me. When I was lined up and conditions matched, watch out. Otherwise, it was ugly for me.
I did drill up a used Mixed Breed a few years back. Just didn't care for the reaction.
I guess my drawback now is that I have no idea where anything would fit relative to my current equipment.
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I had an AMB Pearl a while back. Threw it off and on for about 1 year. It was hit or miss for me. When I was lined up and conditions matched, watch out. Otherwise, it was ugly for me.
I did drill up a used Mixed Breed a few years back. Just didn't care for the reaction.
I guess my drawback now is that I have no idea where anything would fit relative to my current equipment.
Visionary is in the process of building back their lineups. Will they have what they once had? Who knows. But I do know that their current lineup of Ravens's, Samurai and Warlock XV's are good choices. There are some holes but they are being addressed. The difference is VBP doesn't release balls every 30-45 days which I like, and the quality is really good as well as the help they give.
I don't know your current line up but I think you could find something out of the current lineup to work.
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Most bowlers can go with what Visionary says a ball fits for lane conditions. If they say a ball is for med-light, then for most bowlers it will fit that lane condition.
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Strapper
Your issue with the Mixed Breed, was it related to the Z spin? I know at first some did not know it was labeled as a Z spin and that caused layout issues, etc.
VBP said no more Z spinners in the future because of the issues it caused.
You might like one of the new Ravens.
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Jammin
I do think the AMB Centaur is the best heavy oil ball ever. I remember Britton's first 6 shots on videoballreviews with the ball and I think he finally touched the headpin on a runaway brooklyn on the 6th shot. He was amazed by the reaction.
The only other ball I have ever seen that may come close was an AMF Epoxy test ball that was showcased at the Trade Shows in 2004 (I was at Classic's Trade Show in Ft Wayne, In when I saw it in person) by AMF to show the differecnes they could make in the Epoxy covers. Fig was the Brand Manager at the time and he told us this was the most ridiculous ball he has ever seen in terms of strength. The ball was so aggressive I don't think anyone ever got the ball past the arrows without it going in the gutter. The ball was not sanctioned and obviously nothing like it ever came out (other than the EPX from Columbia, but that was TAME compared to this ball).
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Jammin
I do think the AMB Centaur is the best heavy oil ball ever. I remember Britton's first 6 shots on videoballreviews with the ball and I think he finally touched the headpin on a runaway brooklyn on the 6th shot. He was amazed by the reaction.
The only other ball I have ever seen that may come close was an AMF Epoxy test ball that was showcased at the Trade Shows in 2004 (I was at Classic's Trade Show in Ft Wayne, In when I saw it in person) by AMF to show the differecnes they could make in the Epoxy covers. Fig was the Brand Manager at the time and he told us this was the most ridiculous ball he has ever seen in terms of strength. The ball was so aggressive I don't think anyone ever got the ball past the arrows without it going in the gutter. The ball was not sanctioned and obviously nothing like it ever came out (other than the EPX from Columbia, but that was TAME compared to this ball).
Yeah I remember people talking about that, and how crazy the response to the EPX was, crazy..
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Strapper
Your issue with the Mixed Breed, was it related to the Z spin? I know at first some did not know it was labeled as a Z spin and that caused layout issues, etc.
VBP said no more Z spinners in the future because of the issues it caused.
You might like one of the new Ravens.
Could very well have been it. After moving on, I found out about the Z-spinner core. I don't have a problem with them (remember the No Mercy's), just need to know upfront.
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Most bowlers can go with what Visionary says a ball fits for lane conditions. If they say a ball is for med-light, then for most bowlers it will fit that lane condition.
What's kind of throwing me off is the differences in one line. For the bigger companies you usually see one line of balls/cores fit for a specifically lane condition, like the Catalyst cores in the Crux balls all being touted as heavy oilers, the Centripetal cores in the IQ balls all basically being described for medium-heavy oil, etc.
But with Visionary's Raven line you have one saying it's for heavy oil, one for medium-heavy oil, and one for medium-light oil. I realize coverstock makes up most of the reaction for how they perform on oil but to see that range of descriptions for one line is still kind of... jarring? Probably too strong of a word but just not something I'm used to. Made me question what the real differences between the different balls in the other lines were.
Of course I'm naturally skeptical of anything advertised as well so that has a lot to do with it. ;D
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Most bowlers can go with what Visionary says a ball fits for lane conditions. If they say a ball is for med-light, then for most bowlers it will fit that lane condition.
What's kind of throwing me off is the differences in one line. For the bigger companies you usually see one line of balls/cores fit for a specifically lane condition, like the Catalyst cores in the Crux balls all being touted as heavy oilers, the Centripetal cores in the IQ balls all basically being described for medium-heavy oil, etc.
But with Visionary's Raven line you have one saying it's for heavy oil, one for medium-heavy oil, and one for medium-light oil. I realize coverstock makes up most of the reaction for how they perform on oil but to see that range of descriptions for one line is still kind of... jarring? Probably too strong of a word but just not something I'm used to. Made me question what the real differences between the different balls in the other lines were.
Of course I'm naturally skeptical of anything advertised as well so that has a lot to do with it. ;D
Visionary has been doing this for most, if not all, of their lines. AMB, Gargoyle, Ogre, etc, have all had balls for different oil conditions. That way you get to use a ball line with the same core on different conditions. Makes it easier to have or build an arsenal with the same line or core.
Visionary tries not to have too many balls out at the same time period that cover the same conditions. Their balls should last for hundreds or thousands of games. At least mine have. :) I still use one of the first balls I bought back in 2001.
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Mi 2 is right. Look at the Ogre line that was out for several years. Particle Ogre to handle lots of volume, Orange Black Solid reactive that was a step down in handling oil and was as smooth as butter...the Blurple Ogre that was the pearl version of the Orange Black, another pearl Ogre that was a skid/flip monster, and finally the urethane Ogre that brought back almost the same coverstock as the Pink Hammer and went almost as straight as an arrow and needed significant friction to transition from skid to roll.
Other than a super oiler and a plastic, everything was pretty much covered in 5 balls, 1 core design.
Plus...look at Storm. If someone would buy every ball on the market, how do you really carry all of those to a single league session or even a tournament? Most folks carry 4 or 6...some might carry 8, but that is extreme and rare. So how many balls do you really need out for someone to make a full arsenal? VBP does a good job covering reactions with minimal releases.
But, everyone is different. You may not like them or the reaction you get. Who knows until you try one.
The lanes were so fried last night I had to use my Blue Green Centaur which is a super low diff ball from almost the start of the night and finished using my Track Spare + as a strike ball. Must be oil saving night or week or something at the bowling alley, but the point is, VBP still had a ball that allowed me to play where nobody else could even think of playing. Granted, the Blue Green Centaur is long gone and odds of finding a new one is almost nill, but at one time, this was one of the greatest niche balls available from any company.
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Mi 2 is right. Look at the Ogre line that was out for several years. Particle Ogre to handle lots of volume, Orange Black Solid reactive that was a step down in handling oil and was as smooth as butter...the Blurple Ogre that was the pearl version of the Orange Black, another pearl Ogre that was a skid/flip monster, and finally the urethane Ogre that brought back almost the same coverstock as the Pink Hammer and went almost as straight as an arrow and needed significant friction to transition from skid to roll.
Other than a super oiler and a plastic, everything was pretty much covered in 5 balls, 1 core design.
Plus...look at Storm. If someone would buy every ball on the market, how do you really carry all of those to a single league session or even a tournament? Most folks carry 4 or 6...some might carry 8, but that is extreme and rare. So how many balls do you really need out for someone to make a full arsenal? VBP does a good job covering reactions with minimal releases.
But, everyone is different. You may not like them or the reaction you get. Who knows until you try one.
The lanes were so fried last night I had to use my Blue Green Centaur which is a super low diff ball from almost the start of the night and finished using my Track Spare + as a strike ball. Must be oil saving night or week or something at the bowling alley, but the point is, VBP still had a ball that allowed me to play where nobody else could even think of playing. Granted, the Blue Green Centaur is long gone and odds of finding a new one is almost nill, but at one time, this was one of the greatest niche balls available from any company.
Very good points and the B/G is a great piece. Jason says its his most requested remake.
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Most bowlers can go with what Visionary says a ball fits for lane conditions. If they say a ball is for med-light, then for most bowlers it will fit that lane condition.
What's kind of throwing me off is the differences in one line. For the bigger companies you usually see one line of balls/cores fit for a specifically lane condition, like the Catalyst cores in the Crux balls all being touted as heavy oilers, the Centripetal cores in the IQ balls all basically being described for medium-heavy oil, etc.
But with Visionary's Raven line you have one saying it's for heavy oil, one for medium-heavy oil, and one for medium-light oil. I realize coverstock makes up most of the reaction for how they perform on oil but to see that range of descriptions for one line is still kind of... jarring? Probably too strong of a word but just not something I'm used to. Made me question what the real differences between the different balls in the other lines were.
Of course I'm naturally skeptical of anything advertised as well so that has a lot to do with it. ;D
Visionary has been doing this for most, if not all, of their lines. AMB, Gargoyle, Ogre, etc, have all had balls for different oil conditions. That way you get to use a ball line with the same core on different conditions. Makes it easier to have or build an arsenal with the same line or core.
Visionary tries not to have too many balls out at the same time period that cover the same conditions. Their balls should last for hundreds or thousands of games. At least mine have. :) I still use one of the first balls I bought back in 2001.
Well said.
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For the record I wasn't criticizing anything, it was much more of an observation and just trying to explain my point of view. Like I said before I have no reference point whatsoever with Visionary since I don't think I've ever seen one thrown let alone having seen the differences in one line.
I agree that most companies do have too many balls out there. Overlapping equipment is one of my biggest bowling pet peeves and people who don't look into as much as they should fall into the trap of buying a bunch of stuff that all does the same thing for them. I've seen it too many times, and yes the most common culprits are the Storm loyalists.
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For the record I wasn't criticizing anything, it was much more of an observation and just trying to explain my point of view. Like I said before I have no reference point whatsoever with Visionary since I don't think I've ever seen one thrown let alone having seen the differences in one line.
I agree that most companies do have too many balls out there. Overlapping equipment is one of my biggest bowling pet peeves and people who don't look into as much as they should fall into the trap of buying a bunch of stuff that all does the same thing for them. I've seen it too many times, and yes the most common culprits are the Storm loyalists.
I did not take your post as criticism, I was trying to answer your question or provide more info to an interested bowler.
To give you some more background info, Visionary was started by some former people from the Faball company that made the original Hammer line so they have a pedigree in urethane which may explain why they have made some very good urethane balls in the past (Sorcerer, Ogre Urethane, Gargoyle Urethane, and Amulet Glowing).
They also have a very good QC program, in which they inspect every ball off the line, not just a sampling as some other companies do. If you ever want a decent bargain, look for one of their seconds or blems as they call them. Many of them look like a first ball.
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I did not take your post as criticism, I was trying to answer your question or provide more info to an interested bowler.
To give you some more background info, Visionary was started by some former people from the Faball company that made the original Hammer line so they have a pedigree in urethane which may explain why they have made some very good urethane balls in the past (Sorcerer, Ogre Urethane, Gargoyle Urethane, and Amulet Glowing).
They also have a very good QC program, in which they inspect every ball off the line, not just a sampling as some other companies do. If you ever want a decent bargain, look for one of their seconds or blems as they call them. Many of them look like a first ball.
I didn't think you did and found your post(s) pretty informative. Just making myself clear. :D
Unfortunately the Faball era was before my time, at least as a serious (and old enough to really know anything) bowler. Given the praise I've heard and read about their past urethane balls under that name the new one coming out soon might be my first foray into Visionary.
Another question I've been mulling over is where do most people buy their stuff? Directly from their site or do some pro shops/suppliers get shipments in? I'm always interested in a good deal so a second or a blem from them sounds like a good idea to me but I have no idea where I would get one from.
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I did not take your post as criticism, I was trying to answer your question or provide more info to an interested bowler.
To give you some more background info, Visionary was started by some former people from the Faball company that made the original Hammer line so they have a pedigree in urethane which may explain why they have made some very good urethane balls in the past (Sorcerer, Ogre Urethane, Gargoyle Urethane, and Amulet Glowing).
They also have a very good QC program, in which they inspect every ball off the line, not just a sampling as some other companies do. If you ever want a decent bargain, look for one of their seconds or blems as they call them. Many of them look like a first ball.
I didn't think you did and found your post(s) pretty informative. Just making myself clear. :D
Unfortunately the Faball era was before my time, at least as a serious (and old enough to really know anything) bowler. Given the praise I've heard and read about their past urethane balls under that name the new one coming out soon might be my first foray into Visionary.
Another question I've been mulling over is where do most people buy their stuff? Directly from their site or do some pro shops/suppliers get shipments in? I'm always interested in a good deal so a second or a blem from them sounds like a good idea to me but I have no idea where I would get one from.
You can buy from them direct, and I far as blems or seconds you will have to get them from Visionary.
www.visionarybowling.com is the place to go to order new, to check for blems/seconds you will need to email Jason Wonders vbpadvertising@aol.com or call 314-388-3446
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Don't get out here much, so it's nice to see some more recent posts for VBP. It's nice to see that others only throw VBP as that's the only company I've thrown for probably the last 8 or so years as a guess.
Met Jason at one of the TCBA tournaments in San Antonio about 8-9 years ago, and we chatted a lot about the old Faball equipment as that's all I was throwing back then. He got me interested in VBP and haven't looked back since then.
Since then I have had:
Blue Centaur Particle
Blue Green Centaur
Bronze Centaur (2)
Ogre Particle
Ogre Pearl
Ogre SS (2)
Ogre Urethane (NIB)
New Breed Solid
New Breed Particle Pearl
New Breed Pearl
Slate Blue Gargoyle (2)
Violet Gargoyle (2)
Violet Gargoyle (NIB-2)
Green Gargoyle (NIB)
Immortal Pearl (2)
Midnight Scorcher (2)
Scorcher NPT (NIB)
Gladiator Solid
Gladiator Pearl
G-3 Gryphon
Blue Sparkle Gryphon
Frankie May Gryphon (NIB)
Purple Ice Executioner (NIB)
Charcoal Executioner (NIB)
Purple Ice Executioner (2)
Spartan
Blue Warlock (NIB)
Warlock XV (2)
Warlock XV Pearl
Raven Particle Pearl (NIB)
Centaur
Gryphon Special Edition
Of the above, my daily stuff consists of Warlock XV Hybrid, Warlock Pearl and Gladiator Pearl. I do have a Purple ICE (that's going to Spike2112 though).
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I wish I had the purple ogre, immortal pearl and immortal solid back.
I'm picking up your[?] Immortal Pearl on my way to Reno this week. Chip got one from Leon. Could be your old one. lol
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I have used several Visionary balls over the years. Just changed houses and switched from dry wood lanes to oily synthetics. Currently using a New Breed Solid, and a Granite Gargoyle. In storage have the following.:
Gladiator Pearl and Solid
Frankie May Gryphon, Slate Blue Gryphon, and G-3 Gryphon
Pearl Ogre, Urethane Ogre, and SS Ogre
New Breed Pearl
My Favorites at my old house were the Gladiator Pearl, Ogre Pearl, and the Slate Blue Gryphon. Used in that order as my old house got drier and I got older (slower).
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I have used several Visionary balls over the years. Just changed houses and switched from dry wood lanes to oily synthetics. Currently using a New Breed Solid, and a Granite Gargoyle. In storage have the following.:
Gladiator Pearl and Solid
Frankie May Gryphon, Slate Blue Gryphon, and G-3 Gryphon
Pearl Ogre, Urethane Ogre, and SS Ogre
New Breed Pearl
My Favorites at my old house were the Gladiator Pearl, Ogre Pearl, and the Slate Blue Gryphon. Used in that order as my old house got drier and I got older (slower).
Looks like a nice blend of stuff. Now you just need some Raven's and a Samurai ;)
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I recently jumped on board with a used Warlock XV Hybrid and a Raven. I'm very impressed with how these balls roll and hit! I can't wait to get my next Visionary ball!
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I recently jumped on board with a used Warlock XV Hybrid and a Raven. I'm very impressed with how these balls roll and hit! I can't wait to get my next Visionary ball!
Its on its way! lol Can't wait for you to try the Warlock XV pearl, hope it makes a great drier lane ball for you!