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Author Topic: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...  (Read 2241 times)

bcw1969

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If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« on: July 12, 2016, 11:00:50 AM »
If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like the Mixed Breed Pearl?  Since my Crimson Executioner cracked at the end of the season I was thinking of picking something up to put between the Glad Solid(which was too strong for the house I bowled in last year) and the Glad Le -----both balls I love and match up really well with. I know the obvious fit in between would be the Glad Pearl, but I would be hesitant to pick up another one because I bought a used one once that was drilled twice already, once for a lefty and once for a righty--which might be the reason It never rolled consistently for me--and I hated it and got rid of it.  oil-handling wise, would the Mixed Breed Pearl fit below the Glad Solid and above the Glad Le? What I didn't like about the Spartan was the coverstock . It wasn't strengthwise for me, what it should have been.  I didn't gel with the Xiphos, and I am wondering if I wouldn't gel with the Xiphos II either?  Just looking at the numbers, the Mixed Breed Crossover is closer in the RG Diff and Int Diff to my Glads  Than the MBP, and the cover might be more friendly to me.  Visionary says both balls are for "medium" conditions , but I get the impression that  the MBP would be more in the middle of the Glad solid and Le and the Crossover in between, but closer to the Glad Solid. 

About drilling, could I treat a Mixed breed just like my 2 Glads & my purple ice and drilled the same way I have those 3 drilled----lefty, Pin over middle finger cg in the grip center? If I do get one of the Mixed Breeds How can I mimic the shape/reaction I get from my Glads and exe?

My team is attempting to switch back to our old center if a spot opens up, where I was able to use the Glad solid(but nothing stronger)..so wanted to fill the middle of the bag with very similar stuff to what I match up best with, Any insight would be appreciated.

Brad

 

Matt C

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Re: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 01:17:49 PM »
I can say this..

The MB Pearl and MB Crossover were a little stronger than anticipated for a medium shot.

They are Z spins, so standard drillings do not apply. 

Jason's suggested drillings are ( for lefty):

Pin to PAP 5 - 5 1/2 inches ( for every drilling)
the "MB" that is marked you want at least 1" left of thumb (weakest), the closer to your PAP it gets the more backend you will see.

My MB Pearl has the "mb" 1" above my PAP
My MB Crossover the MB is 1 1/2" below..   I bowl on higher volumes and needed the backend.

Go to the Webpage and watch both videos.  They were shot on a lighter pattern as my home house did not have proper lighting when those balls were released.

Matt

**edit** forgot they put a diff video up for the pearl.  here is mine
**edit edit**  Phils ball was ALMOST drilled correctly..  should of moved the pin to pap more, but this was in the middle of the big Z spin debate.  His "MB" was just about 1" from the thumb, as he was looking for a smoother break point.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 01:35:30 PM by Matt C »
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tomf

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Re: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 02:34:49 PM »
As Matt said, The Mixed Breed Pearl is a completely different animal.  Being a Z-spin asymmetric, it is very different from the Gladiators.  Depending on how you drill a MBP up, it can be very tame or stronger than anyone should need.  But you do need to know how to drill it.  As I understand it, this ball came out when USBC was thinking about limiting how far you could put the CG off the grip center.  The intent was to do away with the "exotic drillings" and basically make everything a label drill.  The way the ball was designed, you actually want to put the pin over the fingers, the CG in the palm area, and your thumb hole directly on the "V", which marks the true mass bias.  This will make the ball as tame as you can make it, as the ball will be "dynamically symmetric" with no preferred spin axis.  Guys who really come around it with a high RPM love this, because the ball can't "jump".  Guys who come up the back or are "RPM challenged" hate it, because the core won't give them any help.  But the beauty of this design is that you can add an extra hole in the "double thumb" position and make the ball as strong as you want.  Start with no extra hole and see what it does.  If you need more reaction, start with a small diameter hole and see what that does.  If you need more, gradually increase the size of the hole until you get what you're looking for.  It is really an ingenious core design in that it allows you to make some rather substantial changes to drilled ball specs (and therefore reaction) after drilling.  It would be best to start with some thumb weight (maybe 0.50-0.75 oz.) and maybe just a touch of side weight.  That way the ball will still be legal with no hole, but give you some adjustment room if you need to add a hole.  You can also make the finger holes deeper to offset a balance hole if needed.  You can also follow Matt's instructions.  Matt's method fixes the preferred spin axis by using the mass bias, the other method actually creates the preferred spin axis by using the balance hole.

However, since the Mixed Breeds are now discontinued, you may have an issue finding one with the specs you want.  You could consider two of their current balls; the Raven Invasion or the Samurai.  Comparing the Raven Invasion to the Gladiators, it is a symmetrical with a bit higher RG (2.53 vs. 2.51) and a bit more differential (0.049 vs. 0.044).  The Samurai has the same RG, more differential (0.050 vs. 0.044), and the same intermediate differential (0.007) that the Gladiators had.  Although I don't have a Samurai, I have thrown the Invasion.  Very clean through the fronts, didn't pick up in the mids quite as early as the Gladiators, but a nice hard arc (just a touch sharper than the Gladiators) in the back.

One last option you might consider if you have access to balls that have been discontinued is simply to pick up another Gladiator and change the surface.  You could go from the 2000 Abralon box finish to 3000 or 4000, or just add some polish to the box finish.

A long post, but hope it helped.

MI 2 AZ

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Re: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 03:08:18 PM »
You might not have liked the Spartan depending on layout, because it was a z-spin too or more probably because it had been drilled twice already and some of the core was gone.

Earlier topic on z-spin list.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 03:12:04 PM by MI 2 AZ »
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Matt C

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Re: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2016, 03:10:02 PM »
"The way the ball was designed, you actually want to put the pin over the fingers, the CG in the palm area, and your thumb hole directly on the "V", which marks the true mass bias"


This is not entirely true, but I am not going to rehash that debate.

A ball drilled with the V in the thumb hole is going to be VERY tame.    It would be like taking a Normal ball and putting the MB on the PAP.  According to Mo it would give you 0 flare.
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tomf

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Re: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 05:24:39 PM »
Yup, very tame.  By drilling it up with the thumb in the mass bias, you make the ball "dynamically symmetrical" (Jason's words).  As you know, all balls (even symmetricals) become somewhat asymmetrical after drilling because of the "void" created by the thumb hole.  However, with this ball when drilling the thumb on the "V", the mass bias counteracts the influence of the thumb hole.  There is no preferred spin axis for the ball to migrate to.  It will be more than happy to rotate on whatever axis your release provides.  Although it still rolls and hits well because of the large volume core, the cover and your release are the only things making it react.  And, yes, there should be minimal (if any) flare.  But for the high rotation/high rev guys, sometimes less is more.  On severe wet/dry conditions or if there is an out of bounds, they can play more direct, rev it up all they want, and still keep it in play.

When adding the extra hole, you now provide the influence that the thumb hole would have provided had the mass bias not been there.  Where you put the hole becomes the preferred spin axis, and the size of the hole provides the degree of asymmetry.  Using the "double thumb" position provides the greatest effect (according to Jason), and you can alter the total and intermediate differentials to a surprising degree.  When looking at the reactions of one ball with no hole and another with a maximum size hole, you wouldn't believe they were the same ball.

bcw1969

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Re: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 11:07:37 PM »
The Spartan I had I bought NIB. The glad pearl was twice drilled and I hated that ball too. Since the Spartan has the same core as my glads I figured drilling it the same as those would be ok. The Spartan only reacted well the first time I used it--which was when I was out of town visitng family..I picked the ball up from my proshop on my way out of town..and the center I practiced at I hadn't bowled at in years....it looked good in the late afternoon before they oiled the lanes for leagues that night..but when I got back home to a fresh league shot the ball did nothing, absolutely nothing on a fresh league shot..it wasn't roll out it just didn't do anything. I can't go any farther adjusting the cover on the glad solid..already went as fine a grit level as possible and added polish--but when I am able to use it , I love it.  was just wanting to put something else below the Glad solid and above the Le(that was not a Glad pearl again) that was similar to those balls..if only the crimson ex hadn't cracked. That fit nicely just below the solid and above the Le.  It sounds like the MIXED breed core is just too strong to fit in comparably in reaction to the glads regardless of which MB cover I choose?

As far as getting ahold of the balls, bowlerscellar still has the MB Pearl in my weight of 16 and may's bowling and billiards has the Pearl or the crossover still available.  OR.......I could always plug and redrill my blue gryphon for a house shot(I bought it used a few years back with the intent to drill and use it for more demanding lane patterns)

Brad

WOWZERS

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Re: If I didn't like the Spartan, would I also not like...
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 03:27:09 AM »
bcw...

Just be aware that I tried to contact May's about a few VBP balls they had listed via email over 3 weeks ago and I have yet to receive any type of response back. Couldn't get ahold of them via phone either, so who knows at this point. It is summer I guess.