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Author Topic: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?  (Read 1571 times)

98custom

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Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« on: April 12, 2010, 03:24:13 AM »
So I took the plunge and signed up for the test staff and now I'm wondering what the first ball to buy should be. I'm currently running into trouble when my break solid (drilling in profile) starts burning up a little early and leaving corners. I have a big gap from that down to a Hot Rod Pro Stock Pearl which is very long and snappy. The shot we bowl on tends to be very wet/dry with almost no blend and is a longer pattern (not sure on exact length). I've tried using an original inferno but it seems to be jumpy and I'm migrating down to 15# anyway.

About me, lefty, ball speed approx 15.5, stroker with med/low axis rotation. I tend to struggle kicking out corners when I move in.

I was leaning towards the NBP with a milder drilling on it but I've not seen anyone in my neck of the woods throwing anything from Visionary. From all the reading it seems that the numbers aren't the whole story so I'd like some feedback from those of you with some more knowledge than myself.
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When all else fails, become a lefty
Mike Geller
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TWOHAND834

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 11:35:05 AM »
I would say to go with the Gladiator Pearl as a first ball.  It would be enough of a step down from the Break to get the ball through the heads and not burn up early and still have enough around the corner to kick out corners without being too close in overall hook and ball reaction to the Hot Rod.  Welcome to the Family!!!!  You will not be disappointed in VBP.  We are all pretty friendly in here as well.  

Charlest, Scott33, myself, gsback, lesstanles just to name a few are all very knowledgable and can help you at anytime.  Not to mention, Jason and Betsy at Visionary are both top notch people.  Once again, welcome!
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scotts33

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 11:44:13 AM »
Tell us more about yourself 98custom.  Surface bowled on?  Revs, PAP, are you setting up an arsenal for your THS or for ?  What level are you going to go with?

As far as blending out a wet/dry you''ll need a solid IMO with more surface so the back end won''t jump so much when the ball hits friction.  There are a number of ways going about this.  Many wrongsiders don''t like moving very deep....you?

This how I do a fresh wet/dry...take a ball like an Ogre Solid or a B/G Centaur take it to 2000 or 3000 SiaAir. Then, figure out during practice where I can hit friction down the lane in my trajectory and not get over reaction....get enough hit to carry.  Since, I am a righty we see the heads break down and lanes transition with some carry down depending on who you cross with and equipment used plus lane surface.  As lanes transition, I''ll move deeper until entry angle goes away and I can''t carry then move to a pearl like the Ogre Pearl and pick up there....change my release to more off the side with less forward roll and more axis rotation.  This is how I go about it. My stats. are in profile.

BTW....I like Steve''s recommendation for your technique and stats.  The other ball I''d look at is an Ogre Pearl.  Both Glad. Pearl and Ogre Pearl are arcing pearls.

Maybe work with a coach on more axis rotation as you move in?


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Scott



Edited on 4/12/2010 11:56 AM
Scott

98custom

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 11:55:23 AM »
TWOHANDS - What do you forsee as the major difference between the Ogre Pearl, Gladiator Pearl and New Breed Pear that would lead you to suggest one over another?

Scotts - we bowl on guardian lanes that are well taken care of, i'm not positive on rev rate or PAP but do know that I track very high (if that helps at all). I tend to shy away from moving in as I don't tend to carry well from there no matter the equipment or lane conditions. For this reason I don't do it often so i'm not very comfortable with doing so. I understand about the solid and thats why I usually open with the Break Solid. There's a lot of lefty's in my league and we tend to burn out the midlane especially when there's been open bowling prior to league. Typically 7 in is real oily with moderate oil 5-7 and 5 out scorched so playing something like 10-7 is where I usually end up. Bouncing outside as lanes transition gets spotty real fast and I often end up switching to the LevRG to burn some energy off but this kills my carry percentage.

I generally bowl league and throw in tournaments when my job allows, and bowl in a sport shot tournament here and there as well. I've switched down to 15lbs after taking 4 years off bowling during college and am slowly rebuilding an arsenal.
--------------------
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Mike Geller
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TWOHAND834

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 07:33:20 AM »
They are like anything else in that when comparing them, it just boils down to how much hook do you want.  The Ogre is the weakest of the 3 and the New Breed is the strongest.  With your high track, it sounds like the reason you are having trouble is that you have almost no axis rotation.  If your release is dead up the back, you will get the ball into a roll very early, which will lead to a ball burning up in a shorter amount of time.  Also, that being said, could also be a reason why your ball doesnt hook once you move a little inside.  Have you tried playing around with your release and trying to get your fingers more to the side of the ball?  If so, what happens?  I just looked at the layouts on your stuff.  You have some pretty weak drillings for someone who has low revs.  The balls dont seem to be helping you at all, which could be a reason why you get no ball reaction when moving in.  

Try this:  Take a ball you dont use much anymore, and plug it.  Drill it with the pin at 5 inches from your axis and do a 45 degree drilling.  This will help the ball get through the heads as good as they are now but get the ball reacting more when it gets down lane creating more entry angle into the pocket which should help in your carry percentage.  Sounds like what you have now in most your stuff are 70 -80 degree layouts.  With what you have now, with that high track, your balls are coming into the headpin too flat, which is why they are not carrying.

Give that a shot and see what happens.


If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Edited on 4/13/2010 7:41 AM

Edited on 4/13/2010 7:42 AM
Steven Vance
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scotts33

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 07:53:53 AM »
Good advice Steve!

So many lefties that I know never develop much axis rotation as they see so much friction at the back end of the pattern and their equipment moves sideways as it hits that friction.  Hence when a move inside is called for and need for more pop off the spot/friction it is hard to add axis rotation.  

Here are some tips from Ron Clifton that show some good points on different releases.

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip35.htm
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip36.htm
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip37.htm
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip37.htm
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Scott

Scott

los2003

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 08:01:12 AM »
Is this really worth doing?? J/w don't mean to hijack or anything...

TWOHAND834

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 08:34:40 AM »
quote:
Is this really worth doing?? J/w don't mean to hijack or anything...


Yes
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Steven Vance
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Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

lenstanles703

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 08:53:58 AM »
You could talk to Jason at VBP. I would start with an Ogre Pearl or maybe the Gladiator SE. In fact if you like the Ogre you could make a nice arsenal out of the Ogre line.
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Len

Edited on 4/13/2010 9:00 AM

charlest

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 11:35:35 AM »
Steve (TwoHands) and Scott seemed to have covered most everything.

If I might add: The Ogre Pearl is more even reacting for a pearl, more like a polished solid. The Glad Pearl is also even reacting, in general, but has more backend and covers a slightly wider range of oil than the OP.
I haven't tried the New Breed but it's going to be more flippy in general than the other two. I wouldn't try it right now in this problem situation.

I like Steve's recommendation about trying some alternatives with older balls to see where your ideal lies.

I think the Glad Pearl could the solution to your problem, but the right drilling for you,  in this situation, could be the snag. Like most balls, a higher pin adds to the flippiness and backend, without ever really getting flippy (unless you have Steve's amount of hand. ).

One other thought: Like Scott's recommendation, I (and Steve and Scott) all LOVE the Blue/Green Centaur and its amazing range ball reactions given its lack of flare. It can smooth out over/under betetr than a urethane. Change the surface to any number of matte/dull finishes from 600 grit to P4000 Abralon and it can work magic. Gloss polish with a high pin and it can give you decent backend, if you have some hand - not a lot is required.

If you stick with Visionary, this ball is a MUST buy.
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98custom

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 05:16:29 PM »
Thanks for the advice guys. I've been crazy busy as work and haven't had time to hop on and write back.

I did a little experiment at league last night and was able to generate some more axis tilt which did lower my track. The issue then was everything wanted to turn right. The backends were screaming last night and I was fighting over/under most of the night especially with the Hot Rod. I believe for now that ball is forsaken to tournament play only. Regardless my best success was with some additional axis tilt using the LevRG. Due to its even rolling drill and extra surface (its at 2000 abralon) it bled off enough energy to not scream too bad on the backends but I had to keep my ball speed up.

All things considered I think the solution to these type of lanes might be the OP or the Urethane Ogre. I have no problem finding free hook at this house its more about control right now.

So would anyone care to make any suggestions as far as which ball to go with? I'm leaning towards the urethane as I think it might be smoother off the dry and I wouldn't have to drill it extremely weak to get what i'm looking for.
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Mike
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www.lordfield.com
"Changing Bowling, One Bowler At A Time"

rustylegacy

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 06:24:45 PM »
The ogre urethane is a LOT weaker than the pearl. Even when I put surface on the OU, it needs dry to move. The pearl has a very strong cover, so does the solid.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 09:15:12 AM »
quote:
Thanks for the advice guys. I've been crazy busy as work and haven't had time to hop on and write back.

I did a little experiment at league last night and was able to generate some more axis tilt which did lower my track. The issue then was everything wanted to turn right. The backends were screaming last night and I was fighting over/under most of the night especially with the Hot Rod. I believe for now that ball is forsaken to tournament play only. Regardless my best success was with some additional axis tilt using the LevRG. Due to its even rolling drill and extra surface (its at 2000 abralon) it bled off enough energy to not scream too bad on the backends but I had to keep my ball speed up.

All things considered I think the solution to these type of lanes might be the OP or the Urethane Ogre. I have no problem finding free hook at this house its more about control right now.

So would anyone care to make any suggestions as far as which ball to go with? I'm leaning towards the urethane as I think it might be smoother off the dry and I wouldn't have to drill it extremely weak to get what i'm looking for.
--------------------
Mike


That is a GOOD thing.  You generated ball reaction which is what you want to do.  Lack of ball reaction equates to weak hit and bad carry.  IMO...based on what you said, I would lean towards the Ogre Solid and take the cover up to 2000.  It comes OOB at 500 I believe so it will want to read the oil pretty quickly.  The Solid will give you control on the wet/dry but the core is weaker than the LevRG, so the overall hook/reaction wont be as much.  The main reason the cover is "strong" is because of the OOB surface.  Anything at 500 abralon will want to hook quickly.  However, take that surface to 2000 or even 4000 and no polish, and you will get easier push through the front while still maintaining a controlled reaction off the dry and continuation on the backend.  IMO...the Solid is the way to go.
--------------------


If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

scotts33

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 09:27:36 AM »
I'll reiterate from above.  

This how I do a fresh wet/dry...take a ball like an Ogre Solid or a B/G Centaur take it to 2000 or 3000 SiaAir. Then, figure out during practice where I can hit friction down the lane in my trajectory and not get over reaction....get enough hit to carry. Since, I am a righty we see the heads break down and lanes transition with some carry down depending on who you cross with and equipment used plus lane surface. As lanes transition, I''ll move deeper until entry angle goes away and I can''t carry then move to a pearl like the Ogre Pearl and pick up there....change my release to more off the side with less forward roll and more axis rotation. This is how I go about it. My stats. are in profile.
--------------------
Scott

Scott

98custom

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Re: Joined the Test Staff, Now what to buy?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2010, 09:41:18 AM »
I'm worried about a big enough difference between the Ogre and LevRG that they wouldn't essentially be overlapping each other on this condition. Even keeping my speed up I was really relying on energy bleeding off early to control the backend and was still seeing a big move on the backend with lower and mild axis tilt.

A strongly dilled urethane with some added surface would offer more versatility and forgiveness on lighter patterns wouldn't it? Or would that be too big of a step down and still leave me with a large gap?

Eventually another ball to fit here is in my plan (going to ditch the inferno and Hot Rod for next season most likely), just trying to gague which to get first with limited funds.

quote:
quote:
Thanks for the advice guys. I've been crazy busy as work and haven't had time to hop on and write back.

I did a little experiment at league last night and was able to generate some more axis tilt which did lower my track. The issue then was everything wanted to turn right. The backends were screaming last night and I was fighting over/under most of the night especially with the Hot Rod. I believe for now that ball is forsaken to tournament play only. Regardless my best success was with some additional axis tilt using the LevRG. Due to its even rolling drill and extra surface (its at 2000 abralon) it bled off enough energy to not scream too bad on the backends but I had to keep my ball speed up.

All things considered I think the solution to these type of lanes might be the OP or the Urethane Ogre. I have no problem finding free hook at this house its more about control right now.

So would anyone care to make any suggestions as far as which ball to go with? I'm leaning towards the urethane as I think it might be smoother off the dry and I wouldn't have to drill it extremely weak to get what i'm looking for.
--------------------
Mike


That is a GOOD thing.  You generated ball reaction which is what you want to do.  Lack of ball reaction equates to weak hit and bad carry.  IMO...based on what you said, I would lean towards the Ogre Solid and take the cover up to 2000.  It comes OOB at 500 I believe so it will want to read the oil pretty quickly.  The Solid will give you control on the wet/dry but the core is weaker than the LevRG, so the overall hook/reaction wont be as much.  The main reason the cover is "strong" is because of the OOB surface.  Anything at 500 abralon will want to hook quickly.  However, take that surface to 2000 or even 4000 and no polish, and you will get easier push through the front while still maintaining a controlled reaction off the dry and continuation on the backend.  IMO...the Solid is the way to go.
--------------------


If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

--------------------
Mike
Mike Geller
Lord Field Amateur Staff
www.lordfield.com
"Changing Bowling, One Bowler At A Time"