Post by: scotts33 on January 02, 2012, 02:03:59 AM
Scott
Post by: ch_flash on January 02, 2012, 02:23:59 PM
Scott,
If you get your hands on one of the Mixed Breeds, solid or pearl, Let me know where they spin to.
I will be getting this ball. The pearls are more suited to my game. I have to make sure I get the correct specs for whichever one I get though.
Happy New Year and good bowling.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: scotts33 on January 02, 2012, 02:57:40 PM
I see on BBE you are going to put the marked MB if that is what it is left of the thumb in your track. Not sure what that means?
Scott
Post by: MC on January 02, 2012, 03:36:36 PM
With the MB left of the thumb, wouldn't that really calm down the reaction you get from the core, basically relying on the cover strenght for the ball motion?
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
www.stormbowling.com
www.solid9proshop.com
Post by: scotts33 on January 02, 2012, 03:46:03 PM
As far as I know it's a z-spinner so drilling like you do as a normal asymmetric y-spinner is completely different. Different layouts need to be used to be an effective piece of equipment for most bowlers.
Scott
Post by: TWOHAND834 on January 02, 2012, 03:54:37 PM
I wonder what they are trying to accomplish by going to a z-spinner ball. So for someone like me, where would you put the MB? If I dont kick everything right, everything wants to hook/stop on me. This is labeled as a "strong asymetrical. So I assume that means that I would not be able to kick everything right too far or else the ball will rev up too early and die. I guess I cant really throw this ball then?
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: scotts33 on January 02, 2012, 04:28:15 PM
I am basically unsure Steve. I have asked questions here. from ch_flash.
I would be better if Jason W. came on this thread and explained exactly how these balls should be laid out. for different player types high rev cranker, stroker and tweener. To me, I am starting to think the VBP asymmeticals for the most part should be laid out as 1:30 label laid out balls.
Scott
Edited by scotts33 on 1/2/2012 at 5:28 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on January 02, 2012, 04:54:29 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the No Mercy a Z-spinner? If so, the "preferred" layout was that 1:30 layout you describe, pin above/beside the ring finger and MB left of the thumb hole. Curious as to what they suggest for high track/high rev players.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: MC on January 02, 2012, 05:40:36 PM
I know from talking to Jason about the New Breed core, that they were seeing the ball did not have the amount of reaction as expected in the hands of high track players. I emailed him today to see if they had found this for this core. I will see what kind of information he provides me and update you guys if it may help.
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
www.stormbowling.com
www.solid9proshop.com
Post by: scotts33 on January 02, 2012, 05:49:45 PM
Jason has said that before an up the backer might have issues with some of the asymmetricals. I am not an up the backer and have had issues with some of the newer tech VBP balls. Some of it too strong of a cover for lane conditions used on and some of it balls laid out incorrectly because of the tech involved in the balls.
Scott
Post by: batbowler on January 02, 2012, 10:30:27 PM
The Hart in the No Mercy wasn't the marked mb and that's why the recommended drilling was in the track!! Placing the Hart in the normal mb location weakened the reaction! I had two drilled, one with Hart in track and one in normal mb location. The one drilled with the Hart in the normal mb location was my weaker reacting and used for dry/broken down conditions!!!
Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will do some "Damn Good Bowling", be a "DV8" and not turn from it, besides bowling starts with a Big B!
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Bruce Campbell
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!
http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!
http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog
Post by: scotts33 on January 02, 2012, 11:08:49 PM
I believe Bruce is correct but until; we get some defnitions as to whether the marked MB is actually the intermediate differential or the actual MB.....then it's a shot in the dark.
On the NM.....you are exactly right. The HART was the Z axis or the intermediate RG axis, which is 6 3/4 from the x (pin) and y (MB) axis. I think this is what ch_flash was speaking of but I didn't understand under his definition of terms but I think this is what he means. So, for bowlers that were putting the actual MB in an stronger position right of thumb for a rightie as they would on a y-spinner they were intentionally making it a weak ball unknowingly.
Scott
Post by: ch_flash on January 03, 2012, 09:49:11 AM
Scott,
"The marking on the ball is actually your mass bias, which in the case of a Z spin ball like this, is the intermediate RG axis"- a quote from Jason.
You are right. The mark is not the PSA. Just like the No Mercy was. I guess that means it is the intermediate rg. I spoke to Jason about the way mine is drilled and he said that, along with a short pin and low top, it is NOT good for me. The only time I get any good reaction is to come up the back of the ball with no hand. It is awesome this way, but not my A or B game. lol. When I move in and turn it just a bit, it hooks out as soon as it starts. Jason told me that with the z-spin balls, you measure 90* from the pin and 90* from the mark, where they cross, is the PSA. On my ball, that puts the PSA just above my midline and 2" past my PAP. Not the best location, you think? The bow tie on the track is below my thumb and the flare almost rolls over my PAP. So, when I drill one again, I'm drilling the cg in palm area, with the pin right of the RF, and the marked mb to the left of my thumb. I need more top wt and longer pin because I have a 5" span and I use the big IT* thumb insert.
These are just like the No Mercy, drill them with the marked MB to the left of the thumb (for right handers.)
The ball still has that VBP carry with the pins low. I can get it to the pocket with no problem, but I didn't drill it to play the 'down-n-in with no hand' shot. Maybe when I'm older and I lose 250 revs.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Edited by ch_flash on 1/3/2012 at 10:56 AM
Edited by ch_flash on 1/3/2012 at 10:57 AM
Post by: scotts33 on January 04, 2012, 09:13:29 AM
A little addendum to this discussion on z-spin asymmetrics.
Scott
Post by: VBPadvertising on January 05, 2012, 05:11:03 PM
A couple days ago, I got an email from Scott asking me to come on here and try to help out with some explanations on the Mixed Breeds, and possibly some of the other balls in our current line. Sorry for the delay, but right now I have been extremely busy.
There are two types of asymmetric bowling balls on the market, Y spin and Z spin. Y spin bowling balls have the MB located on the preferred spin axis (PSA). This is also the point located approximately 6 3/4" from the pin, through the CG (providing they are in line). Z spin balls have the PSA located 90 degrees off of the the MB and pin, or approximately 6 3/4" from both the pin and MB. On a DeTerminator or other device used to locate the high RG axis, the PSA is the axis in which the ball wants to rotate around. Given the time, every ball will migrate to rotate around the PSA, and the higher the differential and lower the RG, the faster it will get to this point.
Now, to explain the MB location marked with a V on the Mixed Breed. Z spin bowling balls, will spin to a point using a DeTerminator or other device made for finding the high RG axis. When you flip the ball, it will spin to a point directly opposite the first point marked. Half way between these two points is where the MB is located, and it should be almost directly in line with the pin and CG. This is where we mark the MB with the V.
Locating the PSA points on the Mixed Breed is extremely simple. If your pro shop has a DeTerminator, the ball will spin to the PSA points. If they don't, they can simply place the 0" mark at the top of the quarter round on the pin, and run the middle rib down to the V. Each end of the quarter round should now be on the PSA points.
Next, lets define what symmetric vs asymmetric balls are.
Dynamically, a symmetric ball does not have a definite high RG axis or intermediate RG axis. The Y and Z axis will spin at the same rate on the RG swing, and create nearly identical or identical RG results. In fact, any axis around the equator of the bowling ball (using the pin as a pole) will have nearly the exact same RG.
An asymmetric ball will have a well defined high and intermediate RG axis, and will find one point to rotate around (the PSA).
Symmetric - Intermediate differential at or near 0"
Mild Asymmetric - Intermediate differential between .002" and .007"
Moderate Asymmetric - Intermediate differential between .008" and .014"
Strong Asymmetric - Intermediate differential greater than .015"
Core dynamics are very complex, and manufacturers numbers and marked locations are only true prior to drilling. Once you start putting holes in the ball, you not only change the RG, RG Differential, and static weights, you can also change where the PSA is located.
When you drill a hole in the ball, the RG is typically raised slightly on the axis that runs through the center of the hole. However, the biggest impact comes from the fact that the RG is lowered on the axes (plural for axis) that are perpendicular to the hole. In reality it is a little more complex than this, but this is the basics. Now depending on the shape of the core, the density of the material drilled out, and the size and depth of the hole this can be fairly minor, or pretty significant.
How do the holes affect the ball?
Here are some data results from one of my early tests with the Mixed Breed Solid:
Take a Mixed Breed, which starts out with an RG of 2.520" on the X axis, 2.557" on the Y axis, and 2.572" on the Z axis. The ball has a total differential of .052" and an intermediate differential of .015".
First, we put a thumbhole directly into the MB location (also the Y axis and is marked with a V), which lowered the RG on the X and Z axes, and raised the Y axis. This was a normal size thumbhole (1" diameter and 3" deep), which brought the RG's to 2.514" on the X axis, 2.565" on the Y axis, and 2.566" on the Z axis. After the thumbhole, the total differential is still .052", but the intermediate differential is now down to .001" instead of .015".
Next we drill the fingers 1" below the pin (which is the X-axis), and used normal fingers (size and depth for inserts). This raises the X axis and lowers the Y axis and the Z axis. So now after the thumb and fingers are drilled, we have an X axis of 2.521", a Y axis of 2.558" and a Z axis of 2.557". This means the ball now has a total differential of .037" and an intermediate differential of .001". Dynamically, this is significantly different than the ball that we started with.
Now here is where the interesting part comes in. Because this ball has virtually no intermediate differential, there is NO PSA! This ball is now dynamically symmetric, and will be more than happy to rotate around any spot that is 90 degrees off of the X axis (again on the DeTerminator or similar device). Bowlers with a high rev rate and a fair amount of side rotation will likely love this ball. Bowlers who are high trackers and come up straight behind the ball will likely hate it. But the great thing about this, is you can now generate a PSA in a variety of different locations on the positive side of the ball with proper weighthole location and size. If you place a weighthole near the thumb (a double thumb), you will create a PSA that will be in or right next to the weighthole. If you migrate the weighthole towards the Z axis, the PSA will follow.
In this instance, I placed a 1" weighthole just right of the thumbhole, approximately 2.5" deep with the hole pitched to where it would not intersect with the thumbhole. The end product was an RG of 2.520" on the X axis, 2.568" on the Y axis, and 2.550" on the Z axis. This gave the ball a total differential of .048" and an intermediate differential of .018", and a PSA located in the center of the weighthole (just right of the thumb). Dynamically this is fairly strong, and gave the bowler a strong midlane, with pretty aggressive backends and great continuation. His only complaint is that he leaves more 9 pins now than before, but very rarely leaves a 10 pin anymore.
What effect does moving the mass bias away from the thumb have on a Z spin bowling ball?
As you move the CG and MB towards the positive side of the ball, you slowly remove the effect of eliminating the intermediate differential, and the PSA not only gets closer to the thumbhole because of the drilling placement, but also because of the dynamics created by the hole. The dynamic effect on the ball actually pulls the PSA from it's original location towards the thumbhole, so from this point on, the original PSA location is no longer accurate.
For example, a Mixed Breed with the thumbhole 3 3/8" from the marked mass (with the mass bias on the positive side) and the fingers 1" under the bridge with a weighthole 1" above and 2" right of the thumbhole, ends up an RG of 2.527" on the X axis, 2.557" on the Y axis and 2.576" on the Z axis. This gives you a total RG differential of .049" and an intermediate differential of .019" with a PSA located just to the left of your thumb. As you can see, the total and intermediate differentials are almost identical to the above example, but the RG's on the Y and Z axes are inverted.
As you can continue moving the MB further right you will increase the total differential and intermediate differential to the point where you can have a total differential over .070" and an intermediate differential over .030". I typically do not suggest a layout like this for most bowlers because it can cause the ball to flare extremely fast and burnout, especially under today's lane conditions and the coverstock strength of this ball.
Drilling scenarios are a little different with Z spin balls than Y spin or symmetrics, but it should not be too complex for most pro shops. RG's are affected by hole locations on every ball, and knowing how these holes affect the RG and differential is something most pro shops should know and understand.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited by VBPadvertising on 1/6/2012 at 8:45 AM
Edited by VBPadvertising on 1/6/2012 at 2:13 PM
Edited by VBPadvertising on 1/6/2012 at 2:24 PM
Post by: ch_flash on January 06, 2012, 02:12:54 AM
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: scotts33 on January 06, 2012, 07:20:49 AM
We appreciate the effort you put into this Jason.
For those that have access to a DeTerminator that can find the PSA so you can know you drill angle and where to put an x hole on the gradient line it is going to make it much easier to know what kind of ball reaction you are going to see when using a z-spin ball.
Jason of balls that are in production now and recently that would be out there in the bowling world ie. Gladiators can you list the z-spin balls?
Thanks again!
Scott
Post by: VBPadvertising on January 06, 2012, 07:51:28 AM
Hi Scott,
The Gladiators, Spartan, New Breeds and Mixed Breeds are all Z spin. Now, the Gladiators, Spartan and New Breeds are very mild Z spins, so you can essentially treat them as symmetrics .
Also, after reading my post, I needed to make a correction. One of the lines said as you migrate the PSA towards the Z axis, the PSA will follow. This should have read, as you migrate the weighthole towards the Z axis, the PSA will follow.
Jason
Post by: bigsexyhammer on January 06, 2012, 09:45:30 AM
That's easily the coolest thing that has ever been posted on this site... thank you sir.
Looking for any 14lb Hammers, particularly older oddball stuff.So if you have a 14lb Diesel or Vicious or Blade laying around shoot me a PMPost by: VBPadvertising on January 06, 2012, 01:25:35 PM
Hello,
I just received a phone call about the earlier post, and I think there may have been a little confusion. Please note that the ball only wants to migrate to the PSA using the DeTerminator, not on the lanes! In this topic, I was discussing locating the MB and PSA on the ball, and how drilling affects the location. This has nothing to do with the migration path of the PAP on the lanes, as it will migrate completely different. Track and PAP migration follows a completely different path, and will be different for every ball (this is based on the RG at the PAP, and the total and intermediate differential relationship).
Jason Wonders
Post by: ch_flash on January 07, 2012, 06:58:09 PM
1/6/12
Hey guys,
Took the Mixed Breed to the shop, added grips, went 3" deep with the finger holes, and had better weights in the ball. Now I could add a hole to help with its reaction. Not having a DeTerminator, I decide to go with a 3/4"x 2-3/4" deep hole close to the P-3 location. It is 1-1/2" below my PAP and just inside/left of the VAL.
Rolled it and noticed a huge change in its reaction. I can now use this and will adjust the surface later as I see a need.
1/7/12Took the Mixed Breed to the shop, added grips, went 3" deep with the finger holes, and had better weights in the ball. Now I could add a hole to help with its reaction. Not having a DeTerminator, I decide to go with a 3/4"x 2-3/4" deep hole close to the P-3 location. It is 1-1/2" below my PAP and just inside/left of the VAL.
Rolled it and noticed a huge change in its reaction. I can now use this and will adjust the surface later as I see a need.
Stopped by the bowling center to roll the Mixed Breed again. Noticed the ball going a bit long. Took it to the pro shop and removed the polish and hit it with a 3000 abralon pad. Went and rolled a full game and got a consistent reaction with it. 278, eleven pocket shots with only one light hit leaving a 2-8. On the light hit, I had the speed up over 1 MPH too fast missing the breakpoint.
I am now a believer in the gradient line balance hole method. It help take a ball that finished like a top to one that hooks and rolls to the pocket.
The final wts. are...3/4oz. finger - 1/2oz. side - 2-1/4oz. bottom. Legal with some room for adjustments.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Edited by ch_flash on 1/7/2012 at 7:59 PM
Post by: MC on January 08, 2012, 08:23:07 PM
Awesome post Jason. But I may have to read it again, and again for it to sink in. 
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
www.stormbowling.com
www.solid9proshop.com
Post by: wkf0908 on January 09, 2012, 12:24:49 AM
Hi Jason,
I know that the pro shops didn't got such DeTerminator at our side. As I am planning to buy the Mixed Breed, so how to drill the ball correctly? Please advise.
p.s. Please note that I have drilled the New Breed Particle Pearl with the double thumb method and the ball just hook a little. I am now planning to re-drill it again and using the drill info from Hammer No Mercy; isn't it work?
BowlingChat.net
Post by: ch_flash on January 09, 2012, 08:55:42 AM
Hey wkf,
Our stats are close and I see the same out of my Particle Pearl. But I didn't do a double thumb drilling. Pin above and to the right of the ring finger, cg straight below. Keep us posted on the ball after you re drill it. Also the Mixed Breed.
Good luck.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: TWOHAND834 on January 09, 2012, 10:34:01 AM
So I guess that explains why my Crossover lacks a little continuation on the backend. If I get around it the ball and add some axis rotation, it is better. But, my typical ball roll, the ball lacks a touch; not horribly.
So, Jason. Are you saying that the Mixed Breed would not work well for me given my high track even though you mentioned that higher rev rates would like it?
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: VBPadvertising on January 12, 2012, 10:33:57 AM
Hi wkf,
There is no one right way for everyone to drill the balls, so if you can shoot me an email at vbpadvertising@aol.com, we can chat about your game, your bowling style, and what kind of lane conditions you are bowling on, and try to come up with a layout that will work best for you.
twohand,
The balls should work fine for you, we will just have to make sure we get the proper drilling for you. We have spoken in the past about your rev rate, tilt, and side rotation, but quite honestly I don't remember all the details. If you could shoot me an email at the email above, we can work on figuring out what layouts and pin and topweights would work best to fit your game.
Thanks,
Jason
Post by: wkf0908 on January 13, 2012, 06:13:06 AM
Hi Jason,
I just want to know how to locate the MB (Y axis) point, is it on the right side of the V mark? Or on the left side of the V mark, I am a little bit confuse about that, thanks.
wkf0908
BowlingChat.net
Post by: Monster Stitch on January 20, 2012, 11:28:24 AM
ch_flash & jason: From reading both of your explanations, this does sound like the same concept as the Hammer No Mercy. I just received the Mixed Breed Pearl and trying to figure out how to lay it out. Since this is my first one, i want to have that same layout effect with the pin over ring and actual PSA 2.5 right of thumb. So would i put the V two inches left of my thumb. From reading Jason's post, taking the prosect and puttting the "0" at the top of the pin and running the middle rib down towards the "V" then the two other ribs on each side that is 6-3/4 inches from the middle rib, will be the actual PSA, correct. Does that mean if i put the "V" left of my thumb two inches, does that mean the PSA will be actually four inches right of my thumb? Also, if i was to use Mo Pinel's gradient line process where you draw a line from your PAP to the MB, which MB point do i use? Is it the one that will be four inches right of my thumb? I know weight hole placements are very important in determining reaction which i have done when drilling my own equipment in the past but i just want to be sure where is the proper placement to put the "V" when determining layouts. Please let me know.
Edited by Monster Stitch on 1/20/2012 at 12:28 PM
Post by: ch_flash on January 20, 2012, 01:35:28 PM
Scott will say spin it on a DeTerminator first. I would agree. But Jason is the man you should ask.
As far as I know, the mass bias is 6-3/4" left and right of the V at 90* of the pin to 'V' line.
In most of the pics I've seen, The 'V' is closer to 4" right of the thumb holes, putting the cg's right also. On my ball, the V is 2" right of the thumb. That, along with a short pin and low top wt, made this ball not roll like I had wanted. But we got it right with a balance hole in the P-3 location. Matt in Ohio spun his on the DeTerminator and found the PSA left of his thumb hole. He added a P-3 hole and the PSA moved to the right of the thumb. His also rolls much better now.
Please lets us know how yours is.
As for the gradient line. You go from your thumb hole to the PAP, then up the VAL.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Edited by ch_flash on 1/20/2012 at 3:07 PM
Post by: Monster Stitch on January 20, 2012, 01:57:19 PM
ch_flash: I've been e-mailing with Jason this morning and still going. Having the "V" two inches will put the PSA 4-3/4 right of thumb and then 2.5 right of thumb after drilling. The tricky part i realized after what Jason mentioned is that since the pin, cg and mb are all inline, this would put the CG in the middle of my span and force the pin more right then i wanted to. I want the pin above my fingers instead of right of my fingers. I am trying to ask Jason for an alternative layout to get it where i wanted. How did you guys decide on the P3 weight hole. Did you draw a line from your PAP to the PSA? My proshop does not have a determinator machine.
Post by: ch_flash on January 22, 2012, 09:13:56 PM
I stand corrected. I thought that I would have to drill it over the label, but that is not the case. I'm still learning.
I like the way that you drilled it. Pin above the fingers with the PSA 2" left of he thumb. The thumb hole will pull it right some. By putting the P-3 hole in it, that should pull the PSA to the right of the thumb.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: Monster Stitch on January 23, 2012, 12:53:38 AM
I just drilled out my Mixed Breed Pearl this past friday after talking to ch_flash and Jason Wonders. The final verdict
was to treat this Z spin ball with the same concept as the Hammer No Mercy. Since i could not place the "V" 2 inches left
of thumb because the CG would be on the negative side and the pin would end up right of ring and towards my PAP, Jason
suggested an alternative layout that would give me the reaction i was looking for that i normally layout on my Y Spin asymmetrical balls. I placed the pin over my ring finger (5 inches from PAP) with the "V" four inches right of thumb which placed the PSA 2-3/4 left of my thumb. The static weights before drilling was 1-5/8 side and 0 finger/thumb. After drilling the fingers and thumb the statics were 1-5/8 side and 1/2 finger. Next, I drilled the fingers 1/2 inch deeper on each finger that cut the finger weight down to an 1/8. Then i drilled a weight hole 2-1/2 right of thumb and 1 inch up. I used a 7/8 drill bit and drilled it down 2-3/4 inches deep. This cut the side weight down from 1-5/8 side to 7/8 side and the finger weight went up to 5/8.
I tried this ball at our nisei tournament on saturday at one of our centers which has 20+ year old HPL lanes with a lane pattern that was oiled about 40ft with a good concentration from 7 to 7 and friction outside of it. You couldn't use really dull stuff because the volume wasn't there but the length was. Anything that was polished either pearl or solid worked pretty good. It was all about execution and carry. I tried the Mixed Breed Pearl on one of our doubles squad and it rolled well. The ball is clean through the front and has a nice continuous arc on the backend. This ball keeps the pins low and scatters everything. Transition was a little tricky with this ball since the cover is really shinny out of box. Changing the cover i beleive will be beneficial. Having the weight hole low takes this ball from a mild weak pearl to a strong pearl. You can see the change in roll when this ball picks up in the midlane and keeps charging there after. I tried this ball again during the second team squad. The lanes were broken down with the lanes fried up 3rd arrow and out and oil 15 to 15 with blended backends. This usually points towards going with a fall back shot. Since this was a four man team, we all played same part of the lane and kept chasing the oil in as time went on. The Mixed Breed Pearl worked like magic. The ball pushed through the front, reved up in the mids and was continuous on the backend. I can see why this ball is really made for medium to dry lanes now. A lot of people were asking me what ball i was throwing. People gave me that puzzled look when i mentioned the name "Visionary". They asked if it was a new company and i said "no". They liked the color of the ball but also the way the ball rolled on a fresher condition and broken down pattern. All in all, this ball was very impressive. I would like to thank Jason and ch_flash for taking the time to discuss this ball in detail. I really appreciate it. I am going to test this ball out some more and then i think i am going to try out the Mixed Breed Solid.
Edited by Monster Stitch on 1/23/2012 at 2:10 AM
Post by: JamminJD on February 12, 2012, 06:35:51 PM
Post by: ch_flash on February 13, 2012, 01:23:38 AM
I don't, but Willie Wells used it to be the high qualifier at the Mini-Eliminator. He also shot 300 with it. He finished third for a cool $10,000.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: JamminJD on February 13, 2012, 06:37:09 AM
Nice shooting buy Willie! I was just wondering I got a MBreed Pearl and Spartan,Crossover coming.
Might try to shoot some vids of them.
Post by: ch_flash on February 13, 2012, 09:38:31 AM
They are z-spin balls. drill them accordingly. Most likely, the mass bias/psa/high rg, will be 6-3/4" at 90* from the V mark and the pin. If you have access to a DeTerminator, spin them up to find the PSA's. If not, you are gonna need Jason's advice.
The pearl that is pictured, is a strong drilling. I would drill it like that one.
My Crossover has the pin above the ring finger and the cg kicked right 35 degrees. I rolls well with a smooth arc to the pocket, but still gets that good Visionary carry. Keep the Crossover clean, because they tend to soak up oil.
The Spartan is one that really needs the determinator. Or drill it like the MB Pearl.
Roll them BEFORE adding any wt. holes. You may want one ball stronger, and another weaker.
Hope this helps.
Scotts33 spins all his up and knows where the psa's are located.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: Matt C on February 13, 2012, 12:16:55 PM
Here are a few pics of my Pearl.
I spun them on a determinator to find the Z axis, and when i put the prosect on the ball they were exactly at the ends of the prosect just as Jason said they would be.
left axis
right axis
Drilled ball
I put the left Z axis in my thumb which is a very strong drilling. Jason was worried that it might flare way to early and hit like a marshmellow. Fortunatly the combination of speed, and heavy oil it worked like a dream. This layout is 5 boards stronger than my solid on my Thurs shot. Will see tonight how it handles the really soupy stuff.
solid
The lines on the ball are
left line is where it spun too before the weight hole, the right is where it spun to after the weight hole. The driller with the determinator was too busy to drill the pearl but did spin it for me. This week we will be drilling my brothers and will have more pics of how mine spun after drilling.
Matt C
Post by: scotts33 on February 13, 2012, 12:38:02 PM
Scott
Post by: Matt C on February 13, 2012, 02:02:12 PM
If you can spin it thats the best, tho when i dropped the prosect on it it was spot on. will do the same later on my brothers ball and will have more pics.
But in a nutshell the closer you Bring that Z axis to your thumb the stronger its going to be but WATCH YOUR STATICS!! the farther I swung it the larger Val angle I had to use to keep the statics in line. The pearl now has a small weight hole 1" down the val to get the side weight correct.
Post by: JamminJD on February 13, 2012, 03:19:59 PM
Thanks for the input guys, I knew about the balls before talking to Jason.
He said this will most likely be the last z spin balls they produce, hope he
doesn't mind me saying. Anyway, I don't have a pro shop near me that has
DeTerminator, so I will have to lay this out carefully. Use all the info I
have gotten from everyone!
Post by: Matt C on February 13, 2012, 08:45:50 PM
Took the pearl to the heavy tonight...
What a beast. Actually had to put it away the 3rd game, and the Solid still wasnt enough ball. Had to move to the VR Solid.
Putting the Z axis in the thumb is not for the feint of heart, very very strong ball to say the least. If you are not bowling on ALOT of oil I would back it down some. I have been looking all year for a strong ball in the heavy and now I have it.
Vids coming soon. Will be putting one up for drilling and then 1 for me and my brother using them
Here is the Vid for the Solid we put together.
Edited by Matt C on 2/13/2012 at 9:46 PM
Post by: JamminJD on February 14, 2012, 10:18:18 AM
Post by: Matt C on February 16, 2012, 08:13:09 PM
The pearl is fast becoming my favorite ball..
300 225 (i hate u 7-10 split in the 10th!!) I have always wanted to write a review and say shot 300 700 oob... ok so it was in the 5th game out of the box but ill take it.
Post by: ch_flash on February 16, 2012, 08:27:09 PM
Congrats Matt! Awesome! I'm jealous. I will get a M.B.Pearl before Nationals.
I've throw a 300 out of the box with The Nuke by Track. Got it the first night of a summer league and had to throw it as hard as I could to keep it on the right side of the headpin.
I did throw a 298 the second week that I had the Crossover and two weeks later a 300/814.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: JamminJD on February 16, 2012, 08:35:16 PM
Nice Shooting Matt! I got the Solid coming now instead of the Spartan.
Can't wait to lay these out!
Post by: MI 2 AZ on February 17, 2012, 12:23:56 PM
Matt, nice bowling.
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Post by: JamminJD on February 22, 2012, 09:39:26 AM
OK got the three balls yesterday below is a link that shows all three undrilled.
MB Solid has 2.5 pin and 3.08 TW
MB Pearl has 3 pin and 3.14 TW
Crossover has 3 pin and 2.92 TW
Post by: scotts33 on February 22, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
The best VBP ball you have in your photobucket pics.
Scott
Post by: JamminJD on February 22, 2012, 11:47:38 AM
It is a great ball, but I love the Ogre line, just a great Line for me.
Post by: JamminJD on March 01, 2012, 10:03:45 AM
OK for everyone interested, I finally got My Mixed Breeds drilled. I will start another topic for
the solid. Anyway drilled per Jason 5.5" pin the V is 4.5" from Thumb and as you see in picture the Wt hole.
I got to league early last night to try all the balls out.
Mixed Breed Pearl was interesting at first, out of box finish, bowling on a blended 39' pattern.
Less volume in the middle a little more 10 board to 2 board. I started out standing 35 laying down 20 out
to about 12. Ball checks up early around 30-35 ft and goes thru the beak, threw a couple more same thing.
So I moved right in to the oil, laying ball around 18 out to 6. BAM! ball comes back perfect, threw a few more and same results, ball needs oil even in shiny finish at least on this pattern. I am excited to try on more volume, I tried to start with it in league but the ball just was to strong, I was going around everyone else so I knew the track would be burned up pretty quick.
I really like what I see so far and the ball seems really strong! Link to pics of layout below.
Post by: Matt C on March 08, 2012, 12:25:41 PM
its been about 3 weeks now with the pearl... I couldn't be happier, this ball is just a absolute beast.
Sadly the volume of oil I am seeing week to week has decreased. After the first game its back in the bag for the pearl as I just cant keep it right of the head pin.
Did I drill it too strong.. possible, but I have no regrets.
Post by: scotts33 on March 08, 2012, 03:04:36 PM
This is the issue so many of us have in that league conditions don't allow us to use this kind of equipment. Hence I haven't even considered using or buying a Mixed Breed ball. Too bad so sad.
Scott
Post by: ch_flash on March 08, 2012, 06:36:48 PM
I usually see enough oil.
Last night, I added finger grips and the It thumb to my Frankie May Gryphon. I think I will take it with me to Baton Rogue in July.
Gonna get the Mixed Breed Pearl sometime before then.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!
Post by: Matt C on March 15, 2012, 11:56:25 AM
Put the finishing touches on the Peal video last night... comments and opinions requested
Edited by Matt C on 3/15/2012 at 9:58 AM
Post by: JamminJD on March 15, 2012, 12:34:59 PM
Matt, that is a really GREAT video. Nice comparisons shots of both styles and balls. Well Done!
I really like the Mixed Breeds they are both BEASTS!
Post by: ch_flash on March 15, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
Nice video Matt. Very clear with good lighting. The pearl looks awesome.
If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!