Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 04:50:01 AM
For those of you who don't know me, my name is Jason Wonders, VP of Marketing for Visionary Bowling Products. Lately I have been receiving a lot of requests to come on here and provide information and insight into our equipment line.
Typically, I like to stand back and view these posts from the outside so that I get unbiased opinions. However, since there has been enough demand, I figured I would start a post that could strictly be a question and answer section on our line of equipment.
Fire away,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: KDawg77 on April 13, 2007, 12:52:02 PM
Thanks for answering my email questions about the Ogre. This isn't a ball question, but could you please tell me how much the Reno booth is charging for each ball? Thanks - Ken Lea
--------------------
You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish-squirrel. Congratulations.
http://www.myspace.com/lefthandedhammerpride
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?mp=418&ms=2006&s=2006-2007
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 01:28:29 PM
I have to be honest, I'm not sure what Frankie is currently selling the equipment for. While it is our booth space, and we control who and what is in our booth, Frankie is responsible for managing it and running it like a pro shop.
I believe the prices change a number of times throughout the tournament, but if you would like to know at any given time, you can call out to the booth at 1-610-780-6251. If you have any problems contacting him, please email me at vbpadvertising@aol.com, and I will contact him and find out for you.
Thanks,
Jason
Post by: revTrex on April 13, 2007, 01:52:32 PM
First off, I just wanted to say I think this is great. A lot of people have questions about Visionary, since it is a smaller company that lacks the big-market exposure (PBA Tour, etc.) other companies might have.
My question doesn't directly apply to the current line. Might we eventually see another two-piece core polyester ball from Visionary, like the old Amulets? Something that can be used for spares and super dry lanes, which would also allow for an all Visionary arsenal?
Thanks in advance.
Looking forward to picking up an Ogre Pearl, as soon as I have the money,
Tom
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I am the University of Virginia's Bowling Team. After all, one All-American is all you need.
Post by: MarvinsSkeleton on April 13, 2007, 02:22:38 PM
Not asking a question.
I just wanted to add my thanks for all your help (along with Jim's help as well) with the Test Membership questions I had. I am about to pick up the phone and make a call to Betsy. Looking forward to throwing some Visionary.
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-Corey
Do you believe in Gosh?
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 02:38:28 PM
We will eventually have another polyester ball in the line, however, with material prices where they are, I doubt that we will be making one here in the U.S. More than likely, our next polyester ball will be like the Clear Gargoyle, or a more standard polyester ball that is made overseas (which is where virtually all polyester balls are made nowadays).
Most people don't realize it, but virtually all polyesters and polyurethanes are derived from petroleum (aka oil). With oil prices increasing to all time highs, it is nearly impossible for U.S. based companies to produce polyester balls and keep the pricing in the range that bowlers have become accustomed to. Because of this, manufacturers are having to outsource this production to areas in the far east such as Korea and China.
The problem that we are facing is the quality control issues. Unfortunately, often times the quality of products produced overseas are not up to our standards, and we have yet to find someone that can consistantly produce a ball to meet our guidelines. We are continuing to work on this problem, and hopefully we will have a solution soon.
Thanks,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 02:39:40 PM
I'm glad I could be of assistance. If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to contact me. Good Luck with your equipment, and hopefully we will be posting some honor scores for you soon.
Jason
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 02:48:09 PM
We are currently working with several different urethane covers to try and match one up with our Ogre core. I can't guarantee anything, but we are definitely looking into replacing the slate.
I have to admit, I find it a little intriguing that the popularity of the Slate Blue Gargoyle has skyrocketed since we decided to discontinue it. In all honesty it wasn't one of our best sellers, and now that we discontinued it, everyone seems to want one.
Jason
Post by: Strider on April 13, 2007, 03:02:37 PM
I have a Blue/Green Centaur on the way that I plan on using in Reno for med/light oil. I was looking at Visionary's site and it says that a label type layout (mass bias on the track side) is preferred. Is there a reason for that, or what would be the effect/problem of putting the mass bias in the more typical position (a little right of the thumb).
My stats/specs and other equipment are in my profile if that helps.
Thanks for coming to Ballreviews and answering questions!
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Special thanks to Dynothane, Visionary, and Lane#1 for donations to the Ballreviews Get Together.
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: MC on April 13, 2007, 03:23:05 PM
Do you have an anticipated release date planned for the silver/blue Ogre? I picked up a used Green Gargoyle and love it, so I am looking forward to this ball.
Thanks,
Mike
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Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
Post by: scotts33 on April 13, 2007, 03:29:31 PM
Just kiddin'.
An FYI.....Jason...all with the Solid Ogre at Wisconsin Sr. State Tourney. I took 4th in singles my age bracket 55-59 and 20th in all events. Thanks to the Wonders family and Visionary....Rich was impressed.
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Scott
Post by: pnj1967 on April 13, 2007, 05:10:42 PM
Thanks, Paul
quote:
Hi Jason,
Do you have an anticipated release date planned for the silver/blue Ogre? I picked up a used Green Gargoyle and love it, so I am looking forward to this ball.
Thanks,
Mike
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Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
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Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.
Users I wont deal with, read my profile.
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 05:11:22 PM
I know a reasonable amount about drilling, but not as much as Jim our tech guy. His email address is vbpmail@aol.com, and he should be able to explain it better than I can, but I will try.
To the best of my understanding, the reason that he suggests keeping your thumbhole within 1" of the MB locator pin, is so that the ball doesn't "back flare" for higher track players. Because the top and side caps have approximately the same dynamic strength, if you remove more of the top cap (where the pin is located) than the side cap (where the clear plastic locator is at) it is possible for the ball to actually flare in a reverse pattern, increasing the risk of rolling over your holes. As far as I know, if you aren't a high track player, this shouldn't be a concern.
Jason
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 05:14:54 PM
The ball went out today. I personally pulled it for you, so I know that it went. It had about 3.15 top and pin was out a little over 3".
Glad to hear that you bowled well at the tournament up there. Gotta show them who's boss.
Jason
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 05:18:23 PM
I don't have an official release date, and I really hate giving dates before we have actually set one because something always seems to push it back a little bit. We are currently looking at early summer (end of May beginning of June) if all goes right. Once we have officially set a date, I will come on here and post it.
Thanks again,
Jason
Post by: imjouster on April 13, 2007, 06:43:34 PM
Jeremy
On Edit: Come to think about it I would like to know just how similar the purp/silver ogre will be to the Green Gargoyle. I know it's supposed to be the replacement for it and everything, but given same lane conditions and drillings, about how much stronger or weaker would it be than the Green Gargoyle? And if it is stronger than the GG where will it be in comparison to the G-3 Gryphon? Thanks again
Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect, that is afterall the only way to become perfect."
"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."
Taken from Desiderata
Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 4/13/2007 6:45 PM
Post by: scotts33 on April 13, 2007, 07:03:36 PM
quote:
Hi Scott,
The ball went out today. I personally pulled it for you, so I know that it went. It had about 3.15 top and pin was out a little over 3".
Glad to hear that you bowled well at the tournament up there. Gotta show them who's boss.
Jason
Thanks Jason. I'll look for it next week.....just in time for some late season tourney's.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: MI 2 AZ on April 13, 2007, 08:41:00 PM
Welcome, glad to see you here. You must have gotten tired of all our requests to post here.
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________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: MC on April 13, 2007, 09:21:59 PM
Also Jason, I want to say thank you for donating a ball for the St. Louis BallReviews Gathering.
Mike
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Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 10:29:33 PM
The Purple/Black Ogre handles a little more oil, and carrydown better than the Green Pearl. This one is a more of a control pearl and the cover is pretty strong compared the other pearl covers in our line.
The Silver/Blue Pearl is the one that will replace the Green Pearl Gargoyle. I have thrown the Silver/Blue a number of times now, and for myself it is very close to the Green Gargoyle. It gets through the heads and mids very easily, and then is pretty violent once it transitions to the dry. Like the Green Gargoyle, this Ogre is a skid/snap ball, and not meant for heavy oils or carrydown. You will need to have some dry boards or relatively clean backends for this one, but it can definitely open up the lanes when the shot is there.
Jason
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 13, 2007, 10:41:01 PM
Been a while since I've heard from you. Hope all is going well. I didn't get tired of anyone, just finally decided that if this many people actually wanted me to post, that I would make a little more of a presence here.
Just hope that it doesn't affect anyones decisions on how to post, because it is nice to be able to stand back and get completely unbiased opinions on our equipment. It gives me a pretty good idea on which direction to go with equipment, and what we should be striving for as a company.
PS Dont worry, I haven't forgotten about what kind of ball your looking for...
Jason
Post by: charlest on April 14, 2007, 05:33:18 AM
I'd like to thank you for two major items, but mostly for running an excellent customer oriented bowling ball company. (not sure how you're making a profit, but glad you are.)
1. I like the way you keep good balls there for as long as people like them and need them.
2. I'd like to thank you for actually replying to all the questions here.
My request has to do with information. I like to keep track of information, as many people here already know. I'm referring to coverstock names in this case. You're doing it with the Ogre's Eradicator coverstock, but most other balls, going back to the Orange and Blue Warlocks, never seemed to have a specific name. Once in a while a ball's data sheet said thatball had the same cover as another ball, but for the most part I never knew if ball's chared the family coverstock (pearl, solid, particle) or not.
I think it's important to know how a coverstock and a core react together when, for all practical purposes, every coverstock was sdifferent from eveyr other one, I never knew how to relate balls, except by buying them and comparing them.
One other item: the Blue/Green Centaur, maybe one of the greatest light oil balls ever made. When I went back to 16 lbs, it was the first ball I made sure to get, while keeping the 15 lb one for when I have to go back to 16. I have and use 2 different 16 lbs ones: one polished and one at 2000 grit.
The "pumpkin" Ogre is showing signs of being as useful on medium oil, polished, of course.
(I'm afraid, I'm one of those who put away a new Slate Blue and Green Gargoyle as soon as I heard they were being discontinued.)
Thanks for being Visionary.
PS You should be "paying" Scott (scotts33) as a Visionary ballreviews.com rep, as he's fulfilling that role quite well here.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Loki300 on April 14, 2007, 07:57:37 AM
Post by: TheDude on April 14, 2007, 10:40:40 AM
Jason how close is the orge solid to the good ole Charcoal Ex? That ball was so far ahead of it's time. Put that coverstock on a Gargoyle core.
I still have a purple Ice Ex somewhere i pull out and throw for fun once in a while.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec.
Chateaugauy, Quebec.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.
Edited on 4/14/2007 10:41 AM
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 15, 2007, 11:08:30 AM
I doubt we will be putting the Eradicator on the AMB's. The Immortals would no longer be passed by the USBC, and I think the Centaur AMB's have a pretty complete line. We have never been a company to come out with a new ball and swap the cover, just to release a new ball. It might be a great ball, but my guess is that it would overlap the Centaur AMB Solid, and we really try to avoid overlapping as much as possible.
absolutebowling - Hey bud...how are things in Australia. You guys kill me with how much you love your pies. Some day you will have to show me what is so special about these Aussie pies.
Charlest-
Naming coverstocks is something that I never really anticipated doing, because we don't usually use the exact same coverstock on more than a couple balls. When we design the equipment, we have a specific core design and reaction in mind, and than we test out different coverstocks and modify them to match up with what we want. Even slight modifications to the coverstocks chemical structure can make a very significant difference to the way the ball reacts on the lane, and naming every modified cover is not something that I thought we would be doing. We have started naming the coverstocks because the industry has dictated that we do so, but I think knowing the characteristics of the ball as a whole is much more important than the characteristics of a single part.
Even when you know how a certain coverstock works, it really doesn't mean that you are going to have the same characteristics from ball to ball. The core designs and weight distributions can play just as important of a role as the covers.
Glad to hear that you are having success with your equipment. The Green/Blue Centaur is a niche ball, but it definitely filled a hole that we had in the line.
You are right, Scott is being a great ambassador for our company, and I very much appreciate all of his support, along with everyone else that here that tries to help promote our equipment.
Loki,
Believe me when I say that you are not the only one looking forward to a pearl particle. I receive requests for a pearl particle from a number of bowlers every week.
I have tested several pearl particle coverstocks, and to be completely honest, we haven't really found what a pearl particle does that can't be done by slightly modifying the surface on a solid reactive.
Particle balls by nature, will need much more maintenance and cleaning than most reactives, and particles will over time break down and need more resurfacing than other types of balls. If you can get a similar reaction, without using particles, isn't that the better route to go? Anyone out there who has a pearl particle, and tried to fool around with the surfaces on our solid reactives and not been able to get them to match up?
That being said, I'm sure we will come out with one sooner or later, because the demand for one is so high.
Hey Tim,
How's it going up in Canada? Haven't heard from you in a while. I can't say that the solid Ogre and the Charcoal are real close, but they do cover similar lane conditions, and it did get me to retire my Charcoal (atleast for now). As you know, the Charcoal was all I used for a number of years, and is one of my all time favorite balls, so it says alot that I replaced it's spot in my bag with the Ogre.
Hi Josh,
I know Lindenwood very well. They have a very good bowling program there. Because of the chemicals that we use in our production process, insurance does not allow us to give tours, but you are more than welcome to stop by and say hi. As a TSM, you can pick your balls up at the plant if you would like. Just make sure that you give us a call so that we can make sure we have what you want in inventory.
TrimMan,
Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad to hear that you are happy with us and the product. Let me know if there is anything that I can help you out with.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 4/15/2007 11:10 AM
Edited on 4/15/2007 11:13 AM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 15, 2007, 04:24:42 PM
Thanks for all you do for us. As you know, I am a big Visionary fan. I am caught in between with my arsenal. I primarily use the Blue Sparkle and Crimson Ex. The trouble, is that if I get deeper in the lane (20 and deeper), the Blue Sparkle is not enough on the backend and the Crimson is a touch too aggressive. The cover on the Crimson is 4000 abralon with Ebonite's Factory Finish. I could use a mid performance pearl in my arsenal. With the discontinuance of the Green Gargoyle, should I wait for the B/S Ogre or will the Purple Ogre be a good choice? Will the Purple be too close to the Crimson as far as lane coverage and backend? For the record, my Blue Sparkle and Crimson are drilled identical (4 1/2 stacked with small weight hole). Thanks again for everything and look forward to hearing back from you.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: Androooo on April 15, 2007, 06:47:24 PM
One question for you....
Every thought about using the Green/Blue core in a pearl coverstock?
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Andrew Phillips
The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl
Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff
Post by: Loki300 on April 15, 2007, 09:13:09 PM
Post by: zdfuhsdsbdbd on April 16, 2007, 08:45:18 PM
I too would like to see a urethane ball like the old Faball Hammers. I would also like to see bowling balls in solid colors again. I find the multi color, swirl pattern balls distracting and I cannot get a good gauge on my roll as it goes down the lane. I currently own a Track Heat Blast, and it has so many colors in it I can't stand it! I also have the solid cobalt blue NPT from your company, I have a solid Black Scout Reactive, and a Turquoise MSG Star Trak for burnt and dry lanes.
I also like a simple core ball that I can drill over lable so I can make release adjustments. Call me old school, but a lot of guys my age, over 40, like simple equipment that is easily adjustable. We also like 2 piece balls without a core wrap like the NPT and the Faball hammers.
Edited on 4/16/2007 8:45 PM
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 16, 2007, 10:17:14 PM
That's a pretty good question. When you say that the Crimson is too strong, do you mean that it is snapping too hard on the backend? or that the ball is starting up a little too early and hooking too much overall? With the way you have the balls drilled and finished, how much length do you get out of the Crimson as compared to the Blue Sparkle? and lastly, do you prefer balls that are a little more of a strong arc? or a skid snap?
My initial thought is that you will probably want to wait for the Silver/Blue Ogre pearl, but depending on how you answer the questions above, the answer may change.
Hi Harry,
To be honest, if you had asked me this a couple months ago, I would have said "probably not". However, since we discontinued the Slate Blue Gargoyle, we have gotten more requests to bring out older style urethanes than I would have ever expected.
When we brought out the Slate Blue Gargoyle, quite a few people had requested a hard urethane, similar to the pink Hammer. We had the slate in our line for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years and really didn't sell too many of them (as compared to other balls we released), so I was beginning to think that the only people who really wanted a ball like that were the individuals making the most noise about it. Suprisingly, over the past 6 months (especially since we announced it was being discontinued) we have sold a lot more of these than we did at any point during the past 5 years.
At this point, I can't say yes or no, but the possibility is definitely there. I guess I may have to send out my feelers, and try to do a survey to see whether a urethane line would actually be viable.
Hey Androo -
I highly doubt we will bring out a pearlized version of the G/B Centaur. Unfortunately, I just don't think that type of ball would sell. Balls with extremely low differentials have a very small market, and you can't fill up your line with niche balls.
Hey John,
I don't think I have had the pleasure of speaking with you before. It's always nice to make new friends.
I'm sorry to say it, but I think the day of single, solid colors are pretty much over. You wouldn't believe how many people purchase balls because of color, and how much of an affect plain or boring colors can have on sales. Single color pearls still sell ok, but single color solids simply don't seem to sell in todays market.
Hope I caught all of the questions,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: MI 2 AZ on April 17, 2007, 01:08:10 AM
Maybe you should start a post about Urethanes and ask everyone who is seriously interested in one to respond in that thread, then give the link to Jason to read over.
I found it interesting that more Slate Blues were sold after the announcement of their becoming discontinued. Sounds like a lot of people kept putting off buying one until they realized it might be their last chance to get one.
(Guilty)
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: Eddie M on April 17, 2007, 10:25:08 AM
Post by: Djarum on April 17, 2007, 01:01:35 PM
I have no questions, but I will say this.
I have never thrown any of your products, but I was interested in the slate blue gargoyle. I still am interested in a good urethane product to replace my 16lb amf angle.
I must compliment you on your interest of the forums and the users. What you are doing has been tried before by other ball makers, and has had limited to no success. I applaud you. It seems like you guys run a very professional company, and strive to bring good products to the consumer. Just for that, I may have to get me a visionary drilled up.
The only complaint I have, is that there seems to be limited product visibility here in North Alabama. I wish more pro-shops around here would carry your product. I wish there was a way for pro-shops in my area to be more educated on the quality of your product and quality of your service.
Thanks,
Jason aka Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Edited on 4/17/2007 1:01 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 18, 2007, 03:39:37 PM
Good to hear back from you. The problem is that the Crimson is a hair to early, not able to get the length I am looking for. I alson have a Crimson with the pin above the bridge and the cg center of grip and I simply cannot control it. It is harder off the spot than anything else I have ever used. That is why I went with 4 1/2 stacked with the other one. It is a couple feet sooner and a little more controllable. But, at one house I bowl in, I am in between. The Blue Sparkle is too mild around the corner to carry from deeper angles and the Crimson is not long enough. I have a mid 500 rev rate and a 5 1/2 PAP with 17-18 mph ball speed. So what do you think?
Djarum,
I agree. It is the Southeast in general that does not have much exposure at all with VBP. I live in Atlanta and there are only a handful of people who use VBP. Shops down here simply wont sell them because they dont know much about them. So, they stick with the bigger companies like Ebonite, Brunswick, Storm.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 19, 2007, 12:24:00 AM
Thanks for your post. It will be interesting to see what people have to say. I have read over the current posts, and I have to say the response has been pretty close to what I would have thought. I will continue to keep my eye on it though.
Hi DJ,
Thank you for all of the kind words. We are doing our best to expand across the entire US, and while it is a little slow, we are definitely making progress. Hopefully within the next year or so, we will have a much stronger presence in your area.
I gotta give you a little warning, if you want a slate you may want to get one soon, because we a running out of inventory pretty quickly.
Hey Steven,
That is pretty much what I was guessing, but you never know. I think that if you want length between the Crimson and the Blue Sparkle, with more backend than the blue, than your best bet will probably be the Silver/Blue Ogre Pearl that will be our next release.
Jason Wonders
Post by: DON DRAPER on April 20, 2007, 08:40:43 PM
Post by: zdfuhsdsbdbd on April 20, 2007, 08:56:34 PM
Who is the guy from Saint Louis on Ebay, "ggptrns" that sells all of those Faball Hammers?
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 21, 2007, 11:22:15 AM
When my father decided that he wanted to make bowling balls, he found a gentleman in Ohio that had all of the equipment, and had been making polyester bowling balls on a very small scale. This man was John Fabanich.
John Fabanich had stopped producing bowling balls, and was going to close the company, so my father and a gentleman named Earl Widman, bought the equipment and molds, and moved everything to St. Louis. As part of an agreement they made, they continued to call the company Faball. A couple years later, my father developed a thick shelled urethane ball called the Black Hammer.
After several years, Faball Enterprises was one of the largest bowling ball manufacturers in the world. When the quantity of balls needed surpassed the amount that they could make in St. Louis, they licensed the production rights out to a facility in Utah, and one in Baltimore MD. At that point, there were 3 facilities manufacturing Hammers to keep up with demand. Eventually, the Baltimore facility took over the entire production, and produced the balls for us up until 2002 when we sold the brand to Ebonite.
As far as the ebay store goes, I assume that it has to be one of the Pro Shops in the St Louis area that bought a large inventory of the old Hammer balls.
Hope this clears some things up,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: scotts33 on April 21, 2007, 12:34:27 PM
For those that always wondered why Visionary balls start with the SL letters...it means they are manufactured in St. Louis.
Rolled the Black and Purple yesterday 3 practice games......very nice reaction on semi broken down lanes. Like what I see Jason.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: zdfuhsdsbdbd on April 21, 2007, 10:37:54 PM
Post by: twister on April 25, 2007, 05:51:58 PM
quote:I just got off the phone with my inside source and was told some very interesting information about Lane #1's latest move.
I was partially right when I said Richie was in the process of buying his own plant. He is TRYING to buy his own existing plant. Richie is trying to buy out Visionary. If he succeeds in buying out Visionary, then Lane #1 will pour their own balls. If he can't buy out Visionary, then he will try to make a deal for them to pour Lane #1 balls.
Columbia was allowed to finish the remainder of their contract with Lane #1 and pour the rest of the G-Forces. So Columbia has Poured covers for the HRG, G-Force Solid, G-Force Nebula and G-Force Evolution.
Ebonite and Storm will not be doing business with Lane #1 as they refuse to give up the rights to pour the balls and allow Richie to pour his own.
The only other possiblity that exists if Richie can't work something out with Visionary will be to go back to Brunswick. Brunswick is said to be hurting in sales, and there is a far off possibility that Richie and Brunswick will kiss and make up, as it seems they might be needing each other in the future.
So there is the big secret people. Lane #1 is trying to buy out Visionary.
quote:
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Visionary Test Staff Member since 1988.
www.freedom.ws
passcode- mer071898
Website and hosting for $10 a month
Post by: zdfuhsdsbdbd on April 25, 2007, 06:30:39 PM
Lane 1 is about cranking out as many balls as possible, and I have seen a lot of damaged ones. I never hear of a Visonary product cracking.
Post by: I_Bowl4Money on April 25, 2007, 09:32:02 PM
--------------------
Stephen Hahn
Post by: imjouster on April 26, 2007, 05:45:29 AM
Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect, that is afterall the only way to become perfect."
"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."
Taken from Desiderata
Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: Blindstag on April 26, 2007, 06:11:17 AM
I take it there will be a particle ogre. Will it be a smooth cover particle or similar in coverstock texture to the Blue Centaur or the Granite Gargoyle ?
Thanks again for the great gear.
regards
--------------------
Dale Stewart
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagination is more important than knowledge - Knowledge is limited,
Imagination encircles the world ~ Albert Einstein
Post by: VBPadvertising on April 26, 2007, 03:10:18 PM
We will have a particle version of the Ogre for heavy oil patterns. We have been testing out a couple different versions, and to this point no decision has been made on which to go with, so I really can't give you much information on it.
Hey Lane1Bowler,
Thank you for the kind words. Hopefully over time we can gain your business and loyalty, and get that name changed to VisionaryBowler
Hi Loanzone,
I think that your best bet for heavy oil patterns would be the Frankie May Gryphon. With a ball speed of 13-14 mph, I'm afraid that anything much stronger would never get used because he would never see enough oil.
I have not seen very many throw the Hammer Toxic, and I'm not sure how the two of them would compare to each other. My guess from what I have heard about the toxic, is that the Frankie would handle significantly more oil, but won't be quite as angular on the backend. Also, the Frankie should handle carrydown better, so when the lanes start to transition, and people push the oil down to the breakpoint, the FM Gryphon should keep him in play longer.
If anyone out there has thrown both of them, how would you compare the two?
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: scotts33 on April 26, 2007, 03:44:26 PM
quote:
If anyone out there has thrown both of them, how would you compare the two?
The closet ball that would compare favorably with the Toxic is the Crimson Executioner. Crimson in retirement. Same type of cover the Toxic a hybrid type pearl, same kind of differential and Rg. Same kind of ball motion.
I like Jason's suggestion of an FMG for a higher up oil ball....good roll and not a lot of over reaction.
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Scott
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 26, 2007, 04:00:44 PM
Hope this helps Jason and the rest of the Visionary family. Comparing the FM to another ball, is more like a Pain on steroids...not the Toxic.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: scotts33 on April 26, 2007, 04:19:41 PM
quote:
I am sure you can make the Toxic angular. But, after many games with my FM and seeing the Toxic in action up close, the FM is going to be WAY more ball than the Toxic.
I have a Toxic drilled like my Crimson and it's the same ball motion and hook....as always your mileage may vary. I do agree Doom is also angular. Guess it's layout and technique w/ lane condition.
FMG vs. Crimson or Toxic no comparison.
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Scott
Post by: imjouster on May 02, 2007, 02:20:38 AM
The info on the Pink Hammer was really helpful.Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect, that is afterall the only way to become perfect."
"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."
Taken from Desiderata
Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: Eddie M on May 03, 2007, 04:32:30 PM
I noticed on your website, that you list hook ratings for most of your equipment. Is there any chance you could also list the hook rating for the 2 Ogres also? It is really nice to be able to see some sort of rating, so you can make a more well informed choice on which ball to pick. Even better, would be a chart showing the overall expected reaction on a lane... kinda like what most other ball companies do.
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff 07-08
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 04, 2007, 01:42:42 PM
We are working on developing a new hook rating system. The problems that we are facing with the old rating system is that each bowling style rates the balls differently, and when you average them out, some of the balls come out almost identical.
For example, when a cranker throws something like the Green Gargoyle (pearlized reactive) on a medium house condition with fresh backends, it can absolutely fly across the lane. For myself (i turn the ball a fair amount), I can go gutter to gutter, and I would call the overall hook rating on this condition a 90/100, and the backend 95/100. When a stroker throws the ball, they wouldn't get nearly the same amount of pop on the backend, so the overall hook would be less and they may rate the overall hook rating at 75/100 and the backends at 80/100. Average it out, and it becomes 83/100 for overall hook, and 88/100 for backend.
Now, throw a particle on the same lane condition, and while it hooks much earlier for me, it bleeds off alot more energy during the front portion of the lane where there is oil, and doesn't have much left on the backend. I may call the overall hook on this condition 85/100 and the backend 80/100. When the stroker throws the ball, his low rev rate will allow the ball to retain some of it's energy, so he gets bigger backends and more overall hook. He might rate it as 88/100 for overall hook, and 92/100 for the backends. Averaged out between the two styles, and this particle ball now has an overall hook rating of 86/100 for overall hook and 86/100 for backends.
Comparing the two, you get the following:
Pearl Reactive ball - overall 83/100 backend - 88/100
Particle ball - overall hook 86/100 backend - 86/100
Even though we both rated the balls completely different because of our styles, the averages ended up being pretty close to the same. If a cranker purchases both of these balls, and thinks he is only going to see 2 points difference in backend, he will be disappointed when the particle ball doesn't have even close to the same backends.
Vice Versa, if a stroker buys them both, he would be disappointed that the skid/snap ball doesn't come close to the same amount of overall hook.
As I said earlier, we are working on a new method of comparing the balls, and we should have it ready by the time we release the catalog in June.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 5/4/2007 1:45 PM
Post by: scotts33 on May 04, 2007, 01:53:19 PM
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Scott
Post by: RWOOD300 on May 04, 2007, 02:41:05 PM
--------------------
Remember anything can happen
BOWL TO WIN !!!!!
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 04, 2007, 02:44:17 PM
If you could, please email me at vbpadvertising@aol.com, and I will get you any information that you need.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: MC on May 04, 2007, 10:52:37 PM
Are you still doing the monthly quiz contests? There are not any winners posted since January.
Thanks
--------------------
Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Post by: ozsweet on May 05, 2007, 07:06:14 AM
1) thanks for being so helpful.
2) Where are my 15 lb NIB Midnight Scorcher & Infrared Amulet?
Keep up the good work!
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Just bowl!
Post by: Jmiller88 on May 05, 2007, 02:58:31 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on May 05, 2007, 10:55:19 PM
The Bluver Ogre is going to be very close in roll/reaction to the Green Gargoyle. It is going to be the Greenie's replacement.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 07, 2007, 11:28:33 AM
We have still been giving away a ball each month for the drawing, the website just hasn't posted the winners for the past few months. The winners are still being notified, and have collected the balls, it just hasn't been posted.
Hey Oz,
Sorry bud, the stars just haven't aligned right to find those balls for you yet. I will definitely let you know if any of these somehow happen to show up.
Hi Jimmy,
The Silver/Blue Ogre is going to be a replacement for the Green Gargoyle. It is a skid/snap type ball that will be best suited for med-drier lane conditions, or house shots with fresh backends. It isn't meant for much carrydown, but this ball can really open up the lanes when the shot is right.
We haven't set a release date yet, and we were hoping to get it by the end of May, but it looks like it is going to be sometime in June now. When we have an official release date, I will come on here and post it.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: Visbowler300 on May 09, 2007, 10:16:29 AM
thanks
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 09, 2007, 10:43:10 AM
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that we could be a small part of helping you knock out some 300's. In our current line, the best option for really dry lanes would be the Green/Blue Centaur. It uses an extremely low differential core with a reactive shell to combat lighter oil patterns.
We do still have a few Slate Blue Gargoyles in inventory which would be another option. In addition, we do plan on coming out with a ball that will replace the Slate, but it won't be until this fall at the earliest.
Thanks again,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: roystriker on May 09, 2007, 12:07:04 PM
I think this is a good question for this topic: http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=163853&ForumID=15&CategoryID=2
--------------------
Leroy H.
e-mail/PayPal ID:roystriker@comcast.net
Irvington, NJhttp://
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 09, 2007, 01:52:00 PM
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: getuaload on May 15, 2007, 02:34:16 PM
Thanks for coming on here and answering everyones questions. No one else can say the same.
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Visionary Test staff 07/08
Post by: zdfuhsdsbdbd on May 19, 2007, 02:21:42 PM
So here is the question. What is the German resin alluded too on your website in the ball description?
I was reading that a urethane ball is a polyol like all polyester balls except with an Isocynate added to make urethane and a catalyst is added to make the ball "cure" rather quickly.
Reactive urethane has a plasticizer to make the ball sticky and another catalyst to create the oil absorbing cells. So if this is not a urethane ball or a reactive resin urethane ball, what is it?
John
Post by: MI 2 AZ on May 19, 2007, 09:02:08 PM
Hopefully, Jason will answer your questions for you as I am interested also.
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 21, 2007, 05:38:56 PM
At this point, test staff members can pre-order equipment and have it shipped on the day of release, but not prior. The test staff program already upsets some pro shops even though we have benefits in place for them, and the last thing we want to do is upset our loyal pro shops.
As for the next Ogre, it is a silver/blue pearl (very sharp looking), and it is designed to go a couple feet longer than the Purple/Black, and have a little more pop on the backend. It was created to take the place of the Green Pearl Gargoyle, and should give you a pretty similar look on the lanes.
Hi John,
The NPT was a completely unique monster, and unlike anything that we released prior or since. At that point in time, the idea was that particle balls would give you a more consistant roll, yet still carry like reactives. We felt that we could do this with a liquid additive we found overseas, hence the term NPT (non particle technology).
The reaction we received to this ball varied greatly from bowler to bowler, and quickly became a love/hate bowling ball. Those that desired control, and could be consistant with their release and speed loved this ball, while others who were used to just cranking it up and hoping the ball would make up for their mistakes hated it. It didn't have the backend of a reactive, and didn't handle quite as much oil as alot of the particle balls, so I think it confused as many bowlers as it helped. However, I think we got what we were looking for at the time; a control ball that carried like reactives.
Your information on the materials used in equipment is a little bit off. Most if not all polyurethane balls on the market use a 2 part system containing a polyether polyol and an isocyanate. These two compounds react together to form a new chain called a polyurethane (no catalyst is needed, as the reaction is self sustained until completion).
Additives can be anything that range from fillers to liquid compounds that may or may not be involved in the reaction process at all. In the case of the NPT, it was a specialized chain extender from overseas that created the difference in reaction. It allowed the material to maintain a shore D hardness above the legal limit, yet made the bonds more flexible than your typical reactive urethanes (you probably noticed that when sanding the ball, it filled up your sandpaper quicker than normal)
Polyester balls are completely different and use a catalyst, typically an organic peroxide, to start a free radical mechanism in which the polyester chains use a monomer to crosslink themselves. There are no urethane components, and adding a isocyanate would do nothing to a polyester resin (unless it contained an active hydroxyl group, in which case it would make something completely different).
I think your confusion comes in with the fact that there are chemical compositions called polyester polyols, which can be combined with an isocyanate to create polyurethane compounds. However, these typically do not have desirable characteristics for bowling balls (atleast not in anything I've ever tested).
The "oil absorbing cells" are nothing more than microscopic pores. It is true that reactive bowling balls are urethanes, but they contain special plasticizers that allow for the use of polyols that otherwise could not be used to create bowling balls. This is partially what causes reactive bowling balls to be more brittle than the older urethanes and what helps create these pores. As chemists, we are currently pushing the limits of urethane compatibility, and some "reactive urethanes" are stronger than others.
To answer your question, I would say that in bowling terms the NPT is not your typical urethane, reactive, or particle, but instead something completely unique. We tried it on that ball and it only received a luke warm reception, so we canned the coverstock.
Hope this helps explain a little,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
PS, John, did u receive my email with the images? Email me and we can discuss the core thing further.
Post by: imjouster on May 22, 2007, 12:06:43 AM
Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect, that is afterall the only way to become perfect."
"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."
Taken from Desiderata
Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 22, 2007, 11:31:28 AM
No, fortunately we have never encountered that situation yet. Most of the materials used in the plant are not quite that volatile, and usually go pretty much as expected.
Now, as far as the way a ball reacts on the lane, there are always trial and errors. It seems as though just about the time we think we find a pattern with new chemical formulations and reactions, I take it one step further and the ball ends up doing nothing. It is amazing how very small changes to the formulations can cause a major change in the way a ball reacts.
Jason
Post by: Bowler19 on May 22, 2007, 08:53:14 PM
Is the Ogre cover as Versatile when changing the surface as the React-a-Tact found on the FMG and the AMD Centaur Solid?
Personally I love my AMB solid and have had great and continued success with it.
Soon as I get some money saved I plan on Picking Up another as well as a Purple Ogre.
Jason
--------------------
Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
Post by: revTrex on May 23, 2007, 11:57:52 AM
Post by: getuaload on May 23, 2007, 12:25:06 PM
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Visionary Test staff 07/08
Post by: revTrex on May 23, 2007, 01:45:49 PM
Post by: VBPadvertising on May 23, 2007, 04:14:44 PM
The Eradicator coverstock is just as versatile as the React-A-Tack. It takes polish very well, and can very easily be adjusted to match whatever lane conditions you are facing. You may not be able to find a surface to cover extremely dry or extremely wet, but with different surfaces or drillings you should be able to cover almost everything in between.
Rev,
The Silver/Blue Ogre is going to be released sometime in early June. I'm not quite sure we are going to hit the June 1st date that we were shooting for, but it will be very soon. I try not to give out too much information on new releases before I have an official date, because bowlers just aren't very patient
lol.I will be releasing artwork and other information early next week, so if any of you really can't wait to see the ball, just let me know and I will see about getting you a sneak peak.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 5/23/2007 4:13 PM
Post by: imjouster on May 23, 2007, 08:44:33 PM
. Even though I'm slowly trying to phase myself out of visionary (I'm thinking about doing some PBA events next year) I'm not sure if I can escape the temptation that I'm getting with the new Bluver (thats my name for it ). and its probably going to look really cool too, hopefully a lot like my C300 Jinx. I'm going to have to give you a call and ask you some questions about my AMB Centaur Solid. It just is not the ball I was expecting it to be, and for some reason the ball really just doesn't hook. Talk to you later Jason
Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect, that is afterall the only way to become perfect."
"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."
Taken from Desiderata
Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: MC on June 05, 2007, 11:07:09 PM
Can you give us an update on the Silver/Blue Ogre? tentative release etc....
--------------------
Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story Post by: Androooo on June 06, 2007, 07:29:27 AM
Drilled it up last night with the pin 4.5 inches from PAP, 3.5" above midline (just above bridge) with the CG at 75*. No hole and box finish.
Just shot my 4th 300 with it, and my 1st 800 with an 802 after using the Ogre Solid for the first 2 games and going 246, 256.
Can't wait for the Blue/Silver
--------------------
Andrew Phillips
The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl
Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff
Post by: VBPadvertising on June 06, 2007, 05:09:52 PM
I have now received approval on the name of the coverstock, so we will have all of the promotional materials done within the next week, and from there we will be ready to begin production. We aren't very far away from releasing it. Hopefully I will be able to give you an exact date by Friday.
Here is the information on the new Ogre:
Dear valued customer,
Visionary Bowling Products, LLC. would like to announce the availability of our new ball called the SS Ogre (skid/snap). Developed to create length and pronounced backend motion, this silver/blue pearl is truly a skid snap ball.
The SS Ogre utilizes our new Destroyer coverstock; a highly reactive shell that allows the ball to sail through the heads and store up energy for the backends. This ball is intended for use on shorter patterns, or house conditions with fresh backends.
Like the previous Ogres, this ball is powered by a symmetrical, dual density core design without a wrap. This allows for a thicker, more uniform coverstock for extra resilience and energy at impact with the pins. The dense flip cap helps create a strong move at it’s breakpoint, while the body of the core helps to provide a consistent reaction without the typical over/under you see from many reactives.
LOW RG - 2.59"
Differential - .029"
Coverstock - Destroyer
Finish - 1500 Polish
Here is an image of the ball
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3020/silverandblueogre2gg5.jpg
Hey Androooooo,
I guess the ball is working well than. Now, if we could only teach you how to bowl....lol.
PS Had any good pie lately?
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 6/6/2007 5:08 PM
Post by: Androooo on June 06, 2007, 05:16:06 PM
--------------------
Andrew Phillips
The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl
Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff
Post by: TWOHAND834 on June 06, 2007, 05:33:09 PM
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: Eddie M on June 06, 2007, 09:48:32 PM
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Visionary Test Staff 07-08
Post by: imjouster on June 07, 2007, 02:14:43 AM
Jeremy
P.S. Got the e-mail of the Slue, and from what I can tell its going to look great. I think I would probably rather have some more blue in it, but its still a great ball, and maybe if I get one I'll get one with some extra Blue in it . Thanks again for everything.
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect, that is afterall the only way to become perfect."
"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."
Taken from Desiderata
Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: charlest on June 07, 2007, 06:03:40 AM
quote:
How would the SS Ogre compare to the Ogre Pearl, given the same layout on a standard 40' house shot? Is it going to be weaker overall, or cover roughly the same number of boards with more of that being on the backend?
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Visionary Test Staff 07-08
Eddie,
They covered this previously: The Black/Purple pearl Ogre acts more like a particle pearl, an arc-ing ball that handles more oil than the new SS (blue silver) Ogre. The Blue Silver is a replacement for the original Green Gargoyle; it is a major skid/flip ball, which needs fresh or very clean backends, and has a larger (almost montrous) entry angle.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: MC on June 07, 2007, 03:52:44 PM
--------------------
Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story Post by: Eddie M on June 07, 2007, 04:33:26 PM
quote:
They covered this previously: The Black/Purple pearl Ogre acts more like a particle pearl, an arc-ing ball that handles more oil than the new SS (blue silver) Ogre. The Blue Silver is a replacement for the original Green Gargoyle; it is a major skid/flip ball, which needs fresh or very clean backends, and has a larger (almost montrous) entry angle.
That wasn't the question though. Partially maybe, but not really. My question was about the overall amount of hook. I understand what the shape of the hook is supposed to be, but I want to know about the amount of hook... number of boards it will cover in comparison to the Orge Pearl.
For me the Ogre Pearl and Orge solid will cover roughly the same number of baords, but give me two completely different looks. Is the SS going to be another ball in that mold? Or is it going to have a weaker overal hook potential?
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff 07-08
Post by: clintdaley on June 07, 2007, 09:28:15 PM
I was wondering the same thing. I see the same thing out of my Blurple and pumpkin Ogres as they do cover about the same amount of boards, but the Blurple does it later....even with the original at 4000 abralon, no polish.
Clint
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Post by: I_Bowl4Money on June 08, 2007, 03:18:34 PM
Jason, you can correct me if I'm wrong here.
Visonary is phasing out their Gargoyle Line with the Ogre Line so what you will see out of these releases is an upgrade in the technology and dynamics of equipment.
My assumption is the following:
Ogre Solid = Charcoal Executioner (slightly different in that the Diff. is lower in the Ogre, however, the technology of the coverstock and core combination give it that similar reaction and exceptional hitting power).
Ogre Pearl = Violet Gargoyle (again, slightly different in that the RG and Diff. are a little lower in the Ogre, but the technology of the cover/core combo gives it the strength comparable if not more so to the Violet)
SS Ogre = Green Gargoyle (but because of the Ogre core will provide with a more consistent, controlling skid/snap reaction where the Gargoyle Core did not allow for that freedom)
--------------------
Stephen Hahn
Post by: VBPadvertising on June 11, 2007, 04:40:57 PM
The SS Ogre will go a couple feet further than the Purple/Black Pearl, and have a few more boards backend. It is more a skid/snap type ball that will skate on oil, but really flip hard when it transitions to the dry. It will be more angular and can really open up the lanes on most house shots, but like most skid/snap balls, it won't handle carrydown as well.
It's really hard to give exact figures, because a lot depends on the bowler, the amount of oil (number of units), and even the oil type. From my personal experience, testing it at our local houses with a THS out, I found it to go about 3 feet further with a more pronounced snap.
It's kind of funny that you bring up this question, because I just had an in depth conversation with a couple members from here a few days ago about almost exactly the same thing. Giving out ratings for hook, and answering questions regarding how much a ball will hook is a really tough thing to do. Take for example the following situations:
Long Heavy oil (average rev rate/speed etc) - Green Gargoyle vs. AMB Particle
The AMB Particle will hook. Total coverage may be 10-12 boards of hook and will give bowlers a look when no other ball will.
The Green Gargoyle will go dead straight. You may get a couple boards of hook, depending on how dry the backends are, but in all likelihood, you won't see much. So the AMB Particle hooks a lot more.
Light oil (average rev rate/speed etc) - Green Gargoyle vs. AMB Particle
The AMB Particle will most likely burn up really early. Because it was able to grab the lane so early, it uses up most if not all of it's energy before it gets to the breakpoint. It can actually make the ball look as though it is not hooking much at all, because it is burned out.
The Green Gargoyle can be swung from corner to corner, and can cover nearly the entire lane. On this condition, the Green Gargoyle can quite possibly outhook the AMB Particle by quite a few boards.
Which ball hooks more? Well, if you go by the total number of boards covered, the correct answer could be either. Lane conditions, types of oils, bowler style (rev rate/speed etc), drilling patterns, carrydown and a number of other variables can affect the answer. Also, what is heavy oil to some, is average or lighter oils to others and vice versa.
Hope this makes sense to everyone......
Hi Jeremy,
I can't really give you information on the number of balls, but I can tell you that we typically work 5 days a week (Monday-Friday) 8:30-5:30 cst, and on occasions where we have an abundance of orders that need to be finished, we do work some overtime and weekends.
The number of balls produced for each style really just depends on how well the ball is selling. We do not have any set number that we will produce for each ball, or any set number on our inventory. It's amazing how sales can vary from month to month for different styles. One month we may sell 50 FM Gryphons, and the following month we may sell 500. We just try to make sure that we have enough in inventory to last us a few weeks, so that we have enough time to rotate through several balls before going back to any particular ball.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: Eddie M on June 11, 2007, 05:02:52 PM
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff 07-08
Post by: imjouster on June 13, 2007, 02:23:56 AM
. Jeremy
--------------------
"Strive to be perfect, that is afterall the only way to become perfect."
"If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."
Taken from Desiderata
Proud user of Columbia 300 and Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: urbanshaft on June 19, 2007, 05:23:30 AM
Post by: VBPadvertising on June 19, 2007, 03:28:47 PM
We have been looking into that, and there is a good possibility that we will be making videos of the equipment for comparisons. They can be a good source of information within our own line, so I do think it will eventually happen.
Jason
Post by: TWOHAND834 on June 19, 2007, 03:34:55 PM
Try and get a Blue/Green Centaur. It is stronger than the SBG. But, with a dull, solid, reactive cover and low flaring core, it will be tamer and more controllable than the Ogre line. Hope this helps.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: darkman on July 06, 2007, 04:22:20 PM
Should the forth ogre be a urethane is there any thoughts as to the color and whether it is going to be sanded or polished?
Looking forward to that forth release
Post by: VBPadvertising on July 06, 2007, 04:34:14 PM
Just thought I would drop a note to let you in on the release date for the SS Ogre. We will be releasing it to everyone on Monday July 16th, a week from this monday.
Hi Darkman,
That's not a bad idea, but we already have a couple things in the works for a spare ball. If all goes as planned, we should be ready to release it around the end of the year.
Thanks again,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: twister on July 10, 2007, 08:45:21 AM
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member since 1988.
Post by: chrisleftwich on July 10, 2007, 08:56:21 AM
--------------------
Chris Leftwich
Active Duty Coast Guard member.
Post by: Eddie M on July 10, 2007, 09:25:12 AM
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Visionary Test Staff 07-08
Post by: twister on July 10, 2007, 03:52:41 PM
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member since 1988.
Post by: VBPadvertising on July 11, 2007, 05:01:06 PM
To be completely honest, we had planned on sending out the information about a week ago, but our new catalogs are going to be included in this mailing as well. We haven't received the 2007-2008 catalogs from the printer yet, so the actual mailing hasn't made it out.
I do plan on emailing all of the members within the next day or two with all of the information, but if you email me at vbpadvertising@aol.com , I will get the information to you first thing in the morning.
Thanks,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 7/11/2007 5:01 PM
Post by: VBPadvertising on July 16, 2007, 05:10:46 PM
For those of you who have not received the information on the SS Ogre yet, I thought I would post it here. These are rather large files, so it may take a little while to load.
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverbluecustomersheetfa7.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssfinalizedlowresof2.jpg
If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me, or send me a message here.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: mrbowlingnut on July 16, 2007, 05:13:02 PM
Is the ogre ss pearl being shipped out to Cal Bowling Supply Yet???? They did not have them in stock as of today and i want to get one of these for a really dry summer league shot.
Post by: VBPadvertising on July 16, 2007, 05:18:49 PM
Cal did place an order, and they were shipped out to them today. How dry is dry? It is for lighter oil patterns, but I'm not sure that it will be what your looking for when you say really dry.
It does get down the lane extremely well, and it can be drilled for even more length, but it is very aggressive when it transitions to the dry, so you may have one wicked looking breakpoint on your hands.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: mrbowlingnut on July 16, 2007, 05:26:50 PM
Not slate Blue dry but on the dryer side it might be a few week thing as there is only 7 weeks left anyway. Last week my Hot Rod SS pearl was on the strong side, but i really want this ball for a 2 nd shift winter league that is always on the lighter side by the time i bowl it.
btw i am probably the only one in america that uses a scorcher npt for a spare ball, it is usually very straight but last week was hooking like crazy. For me the NPT does not move in oil at all, it acts like a urethane ball.
quote:
Hi bowlingnut,
Cal did place an order, and they were shipped out to them today. How dry is dry? It is for lighter oil patterns, but I'm not sure that it will be what your looking for when you say really dry.
It does get down the lane extremely well, and it can be drilled for even more length, but it is very aggressive when it transitions to the dry, so you may have one wicked looking breakpoint on your hands.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 17, 2007, 12:18:38 AM
quote:
For me the NPT does not move in oil at all, it acts like a urethane ball.
I havent used my NPT in quite awhile, but I remember it did not hook a lot. Had a very mellow and gradual hook so it reminded me very much like a urethane ball and that's how I recommended it to someone who was looking for a ball to replace their old Blue Hammer.
--------------------
________________________________________
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_________________________________________
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Post by: scotts33 on July 17, 2007, 07:59:23 PM
--------------------
Scott
Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 18, 2007, 01:54:51 AM
--------------------
________________________________________
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_________________________________________
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Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 18, 2007, 02:04:22 AM
________________________________________________________________
Hi John,
The NPT was a completely unique monster, and unlike anything that we released prior or since. At that point in time, the idea was that particle balls would give you a more consistant roll, yet still carry like reactives. We felt that we could do this with a liquid additive we found overseas, hence the term NPT (non particle technology).
The reaction we received to this ball varied greatly from bowler to bowler, and quickly became a love/hate bowling ball. Those that desired control, and could be consistant with their release and speed loved this ball, while others who were used to just cranking it up and hoping the ball would make up for their mistakes hated it. It didn't have the backend of a reactive, and didn't handle quite as much oil as alot of the particle balls, so I think it confused as many bowlers as it helped. However, I think we got what we were looking for at the time; a control ball that carried like reactives.
Your information on the materials used in equipment is a little bit off. Most if not all polyurethane balls on the market use a 2 part system containing a polyether polyol and an isocyanate. These two compounds react together to form a new chain called a polyurethane (no catalyst is needed, as the reaction is self sustained until completion).
Additives can be anything that range from fillers to liquid compounds that may or may not be involved in the reaction process at all. In the case of the NPT, it was a specialized chain extender from overseas that created the difference in reaction. It allowed the material to maintain a shore D hardness above the legal limit, yet made the bonds more flexible than your typical reactive urethanes (you probably noticed that when sanding the ball, it filled up your sandpaper quicker than normal)
Polyester balls are completely different and use a catalyst, typically an organic peroxide, to start a free radical mechanism in which the polyester chains use a monomer to crosslink themselves. There are no urethane components, and adding a isocyanate would do nothing to a polyester resin (unless it contained an active hydroxyl group, in which case it would make something completely different).
I think your confusion comes in with the fact that there are chemical compositions called polyester polyols, which can be combined with an isocyanate to create polyurethane compounds. However, these typically do not have desirable characteristics for bowling balls (atleast not in anything I've ever tested).
The "oil absorbing cells" are nothing more than microscopic pores. It is true that reactive bowling balls are urethanes, but they contain special plasticizers that allow for the use of polyols that otherwise could not be used to create bowling balls. This is partially what causes reactive bowling balls to be more brittle than the older urethanes and what helps create these pores. As chemists, we are currently pushing the limits of urethane compatibility, and some "reactive urethanes" are stronger than others.
To answer your question, I would say that in bowling terms the NPT is not your typical urethane, reactive, or particle, but instead something completely unique. We tried it on that ball and it only received a luke warm reception, so we canned the coverstock.
Hope this helps explain a little,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: scotts33 on July 18, 2007, 05:00:36 AM
--------------------
Scott
Post by: VBPadvertising on July 18, 2007, 02:24:44 PM
I think you may be confusing the blue Scorcher NPT with the original Midnight Scorcher. The black Scorcher did have a urethane base, with an added particle, and was definitely made for heavier oils. It came scuffed, and felt very rough to the touch.
The NPT however, came polished, and felt pretty slick. It used the liquid additive from overseas, and did not contain any particles. NPT stood for non particle technology, and was designed to give the roll of a particle with the hit of a reactive.
Jason
Post by: scotts33 on July 18, 2007, 08:35:23 PM
Sorry!
--------------------
Scott
Post by: MI 2 AZ on February 05, 2009, 12:05:42 PM
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
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Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 05, 2009, 12:30:27 PM
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
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Post by: MI 2 AZ on February 05, 2009, 12:36:18 PM
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: gsback on February 05, 2009, 12:59:23 PM
This is yet another reason of why Visionary is the best. Who from Ebonite or Storm is going to do something like this and in the level of detail done by Jason. Never mind the fact that the replies are thought out here.....but there are even posts of mails Jason sent out explaining stuff.
Great read on page 5 about the process involved in creating the NPT and possibly a based for most of the balls. Do the big guys do this as well??
--------------------
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g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!
Post by: Bowler19 on February 05, 2009, 06:08:04 PM
--------------------
Jason K
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
Jason @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
King Of Roto-Grip In Canada.
www.juniorsproshop.com
Post by: MI 2 AZ on February 06, 2009, 11:02:51 AM
Then exit the page. Don't do anything else. You should be able to go back to this topic and see all the older posts. If you ever go back and change your Preferences, you will lose this ability, but you could just click on the link above again.
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: jbuzz31 on February 06, 2009, 12:17:22 PM
quote:
Dear Jason:
Though it's not usual business, I would like to see some kind of systematic explanation of what you sell. What the balls are supposed to do, and how they fit in. i.e. The Hammers had names (simple to understand), and people were easily able to recognize what they did, and do.
If the balls have names like, Dynomite, Horse bridle, house, mary, rock...etc. It is difficult, no impossible to make some kind of sense out of them.
I am trying to understand what your balls are made of, and what they do. The reason is I really want to try one. It seems however that some of the stuff I want to try is already out of production. Anyway, I would like to have that information.
Thanks.
do you REALLY expect every manufacture to take most likely a hour or two out of there day to explain to you how every single one of there balls work, how they compare to each other and how they compare to your fossilized equipment? give me a break. Quit posting up the nonesensical topics demanding that these manufactures contact you and bend over backwards to sell you one ball. Get a grip there bud.
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Post by: scotts33 on February 06, 2009, 12:23:53 PM
If, you know and if you don't know then you need to find out about ball specs. factors like different coverstocks, cores, Rg's, differentail well help you figure that for yourself. Strength and match up. This is where your driller comes in to help figure out what will match up for you and your bowling technique along with lane conditions bowled on. Manufacturers can only go so far and reccomend balls that might work.
http://visionarybowling.com/ is pretty good at descriptions.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: jbuzz31 on February 06, 2009, 12:32:44 PM
quote:
Actually Jason will take time out of his day and post. Jason and Jim answer e-mails daily about Visionary questions. Agreed that FB is a lil over the top.
right theres the difference between a normal straightforward reasonable question.......then theres this guys questions which give you convolutions just reading them, heaven forbid answering them to his satisfaction
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 06, 2009, 12:44:46 PM
quote:quote:
Actually Jason will take time out of his day and post. Jason and Jim answer e-mails daily about Visionary questions. Agreed that FB is a lil over the top.
right theres the difference between a normal straightforward reasonable question.......then theres this guys questions which give you convolutions just reading them, heaven forbid answering them to his satisfaction
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
What do you mean???
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: jbuzz31 on February 06, 2009, 12:51:52 PM
quote:
What do you mean???
just look at the thread over in the lane 1 forum where he EXPECTED lane 1 to send a left hander with a 190 avg to meet with him and roll the liberator just so he could compare it to his game.
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Post by: livespive on February 06, 2009, 01:07:11 PM
quote:quote:quote:
Actually Jason will take time out of his day and post. Jason and Jim answer e-mails daily about Visionary questions. Agreed that FB is a lil over the top.
right theres the difference between a normal straightforward reasonable question.......then theres this guys questions which give you convolutions just reading them, heaven forbid answering them to his satisfaction
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
What do you mean???
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
If he would read the data on each of the ball they tell you what the ball does. Now you might have RG or DIFF questions, not knowing what they are, but you know what the ball does.
The "Hammers" Rhinos, and U dots that were used in the past just had color names, you still had to read to learn what they did. Granted back in the day all there was to say was, the burgandy outhooks the black for the most part.
The game is different now. I am not thot old but I am old enough to have bowled through the "transision" from Rhino to Rhino pro Urethane to Reactive.
I think there was an article in in one of the bowling mags about the resin release, talking about how you lay the ball out and let it do the work.
Best thing for him to do is hit a proshop, and have him watch you a few times then tell him what he wants.
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
http://www.maysbowlingandbilliards.com
Ball Reviews FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
BR.com search hack: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Edited on 2/6/2009 2:28 PM
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 06, 2009, 01:25:05 PM
quote:
Dear Jason:
Though it's not usual business, I would like to see some kind of systematic explanation of what you sell. What the balls are supposed to do, and how they fit in. i.e. The Hammers had names (simple to understand), and people were easily able to recognize what they did, and do.
If the balls have names like, Dynomite, Horse bridle, house, mary, rock...etc. It is difficult, no impossible to make some kind of sense out of them.
I am trying to understand what your balls are made of, and what they do. The reason is I really want to try one. It seems however that some of the stuff I want to try is already out of production. Anyway, I would like to have that information.
Thanks.
Frank,
I'm sorry, but what more do you honestly want? I've explained all I can to you about everything. I know you love the predictability and control of the urethane. Unfortunatly it seems most people on the market love to see the backend snap.
For instance you have New cars and classic cars. Yes there are people who love that '65 Mustang, but they cannot continue to make that '65 mustang, cause there is progress. They go through changes, then eventually the retro look comes back but not all the way. Ie the current Mustangs look like the mustangs of old but more modernized. For example the Blue/Green Centaur is Urethane like in control but with reactive cover and hit.
Use the car example for names like you said. If you are a person who knows nothing about cars what do you get out of the names of the cars?? For example no car company is going to come out with a for instance "Brand J Fast as Hell". Just like with bowling balls, its all about names, colors, appeal etc. No company is going to name their ball "Brand X Smooth to the Pocket" or "Brand Y Fast Violent Snap to the Pocket". You can't go by the names of products.
I know I haven't been bowling that long (1 year), I know I'm a righty Stroker and not a lefty tweener/stroker like yourself, but I have the Red Sorcerer, the Midnight Scorcher (aka The Hair Ball), the Scorcher NPT (which I know is not a Urethane ball but a very nice control piece), and I can drill up my Blue/Green Centaur so you can see how each reacts next to each other. Or whatever else is in the Visionary line up cause I pretty much have every ball but 2 that has been ever made by the Visionary Company (the two newest balls). I'm happy to help you out the best I can with whatever you want to achieve!
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: livespive on February 06, 2009, 01:39:49 PM
quote:quote:
Dear Jason:
Though it's not usual business, I would like to see some kind of systematic explanation of what you sell. What the balls are supposed to do, and how they fit in. i.e. The Hammers had names (simple to understand), and people were easily able to recognize what they did, and do.
If the balls have names like, Dynomite, Horse bridle, house, mary, rock...etc. It is difficult, no impossible to make some kind of sense out of them.
I am trying to understand what your balls are made of, and what they do. The reason is I really want to try one. It seems however that some of the stuff I want to try is already out of production. Anyway, I would like to have that information.
Thanks.
Frank,
I'm sorry, but what more do you honestly want? I've explained all I can to you about everything. I know you love the predictability and control of the urethane. Unfortunatly it seems most people on the market love to see the backend snap.
For instance you have New cars and classic cars. Yes there are people who love that '65 Mustang, but they cannot continue to make that '65 mustang, cause there is progress. They go through changes, then eventually the retro look comes back but not all the way. Ie the current Mustangs look like the mustangs of old but more modernized. For example the Blue/Green Centaur is Urethane like in control but with reactive cover and hit.
Use the car example for names like you said. If you are a person who knows nothing about cars what do you get out of the names of the cars?? For example no car company is going to come out with a for instance "Brand J Fast as Hell". Just like with bowling balls, its all about names, colors, appeal etc. No company is going to name their ball "Brand X Smooth to the Pocket" or "Brand Y Fast Violent Snap to the Pocket". You can't go by the names of products.
I know I haven't been bowling that long (1 year), I know I'm a righty Stroker and not a lefty tweener/stroker like yourself, but I have the Red Sorcerer, the Midnight Scorcher (aka The Hair Ball), the Scorcher NPT (which I know is not a Urethane ball but a very nice control piece), and I can drill up my Blue/Green Centaur so you can see how each reacts next to each other. Or whatever else is in the Visionary line up cause I pretty much have every ball but 2 that has been ever made by the Visionary Company (the two newest balls). I'm happy to help you out the best I can with whatever you want to achieve!
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Yeah he has all of mine
Frank,
maybe you should just take a leap of faith. That's what I did, and it was the best thing I ever did. I had never heard of Visionary, but when they stopped making the Rhino Pro T2, and the Copper X, I started looking for a replacement. I would read about balls, and try different balls, finally on an internet search I seen this company, and got to looking at the selection, and notice the cores looked like the T2 somewhat (the Executioners). They weren't the same but close, so I tried them, drilled up a charcoal, did some more reading and I have been "Hooked" from then on lol.
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
http://www.maysbowlingandbilliards.com
Ball Reviews FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
BR.com search hack: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 06, 2009, 01:48:04 PM
quote:quote:quote:
Dear Jason:
Though it's not usual business, I would like to see some kind of systematic explanation of what you sell. What the balls are supposed to do, and how they fit in. i.e. The Hammers had names (simple to understand), and people were easily able to recognize what they did, and do.
If the balls have names like, Dynomite, Horse bridle, house, mary, rock...etc. It is difficult, no impossible to make some kind of sense out of them.
I am trying to understand what your balls are made of, and what they do. The reason is I really want to try one. It seems however that some of the stuff I want to try is already out of production. Anyway, I would like to have that information.
Thanks.
Frank,
I'm sorry, but what more do you honestly want? I've explained all I can to you about everything. I know you love the predictability and control of the urethane. Unfortunatly it seems most people on the market love to see the backend snap.
For instance you have New cars and classic cars. Yes there are people who love that '65 Mustang, but they cannot continue to make that '65 mustang, cause there is progress. They go through changes, then eventually the retro look comes back but not all the way. Ie the current Mustangs look like the mustangs of old but more modernized. For example the Blue/Green Centaur is Urethane like in control but with reactive cover and hit.
Use the car example for names like you said. If you are a person who knows nothing about cars what do you get out of the names of the cars?? For example no car company is going to come out with a for instance "Brand J Fast as Hell". Just like with bowling balls, its all about names, colors, appeal etc. No company is going to name their ball "Brand X Smooth to the Pocket" or "Brand Y Fast Violent Snap to the Pocket". You can't go by the names of products.
I know I haven't been bowling that long (1 year), I know I'm a righty Stroker and not a lefty tweener/stroker like yourself, but I have the Red Sorcerer, the Midnight Scorcher (aka The Hair Ball), the Scorcher NPT (which I know is not a Urethane ball but a very nice control piece), and I can drill up my Blue/Green Centaur so you can see how each reacts next to each other. Or whatever else is in the Visionary line up cause I pretty much have every ball but 2 that has been ever made by the Visionary Company (the two newest balls). I'm happy to help you out the best I can with whatever you want to achieve!
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Yeah he has all of mine
Frank,
maybe you should just take a leap of faith. That's what I did, and it was the best thing I ever did. I had never heard of Visionary, but when they stopped making the Rhino Pro T2, and the Copper X, I started looking for a replacement. I would read about balls, and try different balls, finally on an internet search I seen this company, and got to looking at the selection, and notice the cores looked like the T2 somewhat (the Executioners). They weren't the same but close, so I tried them, drilled up a charcoal, did some more reading and I have been "Hooked" from then on lol.
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
http://www.maysbowlingandbilliards.com
Ball Reviews FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
BR.com search hack: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Eric,
Well in Frank's defense is that he got burned pretty well by another proshop in town that was just selling him bowling balls and not giving him what he wants and fits his style. Now he is a customer at my friends shop and we have been working with him to get what fits his needs.
But then some of the things he wants/expects like the name thing is not really rational. In business that is not how things work.
But like I said he can see pretty much everything cause I have it. I don't see anyone from any other company be it customer, employee, Staffer, etc offering to do that for him.
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: livespive on February 06, 2009, 01:55:02 PM
He may also want to try a few used balls. That is what I did when I found this site, and found Visionary.
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
http://www.maysbowlingandbilliards.com
Ball Reviews FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
BR.com search hack: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Post by: gsback on February 06, 2009, 06:40:51 PM
I do agree though Eric/NCal.....I think by reading...asking a couple of questions and getting insight from others, Frank is going to more than get the information he seeks.
He's got to have an open mind though.
--------------------
BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!
g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!
Post by: MC on February 06, 2009, 11:01:41 PM
Also remember that VBP does have some of the d/c'd balls in stock as blems
--------------------
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
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