Post by: VBPadvertising on August 13, 2007, 07:51:47 AM
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: mrbowlingnut on August 13, 2007, 03:53:51 PM
Post by: scotts33 on August 13, 2007, 04:51:31 PM
quote:
Are you working on newer stronger reactive veneer's like say Ebonite and/or are you going to go with stronger cores in the near future???
Sheesh Barry how strong do you want a ball? Just you fluffers need more.
Actually for what I see Solid Ogre and FMG are as strong as I need.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: NJStroker on August 13, 2007, 05:24:07 PM
Post by: mrbowlingnut on August 13, 2007, 05:30:37 PM
Edited on 8/13/2007 5:36 PM
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 13, 2007, 05:46:10 PM
It really depends on what you call stronger. I don't really think there is a coverstock on the market that can handle more oil than our AMB Particle cover, and the React-A-Tack and Eradicator covers are both pretty strong solid reactive covers.
I know there are some covers that absorb more oil, but it also affects the longevity of a ball. Personally, I like the fact that our covers are as strong as they are, without having to worry about them dying from one seasons use.
Obviously, we will continue to work on developing new coverstocks to combat changing oils and lane conditions, but I don't know how much stronger people really want the equipment.
As far as the cores are concerned, I don't think they get much stronger than the AMB core (Immortals and/or Centaur AMB's). I can only assume when you say stronger, you mean lower RG for earlier roll, and yes this is something that we are working on.
It may sound really biased, and I guess it is, but I believe that we have
a)the strongest ball in oil (AMB Particle)
b)one of the most versatile balls on the market (FM Gryphon and or solid Ogre)
c)very strong skid/snap balls (G-3, Immortal Pearl, and SS Ogre)
d)best reactive for dry lanes (G/B Centaur)
e)one of the most well rounded lines in the industry
OK, since this question has to do with what we are doing in the future, I would like to pose this question. Is there anything that we don't have a coverstock for? (other than polyester...LOL) What do you feel we should work on developing next (keep in mind, we already have a few more balls in the works, so it won't be the next ball)?
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 13, 2007, 05:57:13 PM
This question has been posed many times, and eventually we will have a particle pearl that we release. To this point, I have still not found a particle pearl cover, that I could make react differently than a solid with the right surface adjustment. It's interesting really, because a lot of bowlers are upset with the fact that balls die off quicker when they have particle or oil absorbing covers, yet they still want manufacturers to make them.
Another question posed to you guys and gals. What does a particle pearl do, that you can't get a solid reactive to do by changing the surface preparation? Keep in mind that different cores will create a different look as well, so it has to be cover vs cover.
Mouthbig - I'm not sure. I will have to check with our webmaster and see when it is going to be announced. I should have an answer for you tomorrow.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: mab on August 13, 2007, 06:34:39 PM
--------------------
He Who Dies With The Most Toys Wins
Roto Grip King Of Them All !!!
Post by: NJStroker on August 13, 2007, 07:27:28 PM
quote:Well i figure this, once the heads go, u usually end up with carrydown. I would like a ball that can go through the heads and can fight the carrydown, solids really cant fight the carrydown as good as the particles, thats y i would like one. And to get the solid reactive to fight the carrydown, u need a grit that wont clear the drying heads.
Hi Walter,
This question has been posed many times, and eventually we will have a particle pearl that we release. To this point, I have still not found a particle pearl cover, that I could make react differently than a solid with the right surface adjustment. It's interesting really, because a lot of bowlers are upset with the fact that balls die off quicker when they have particle or oil absorbing covers, yet they still want manufacturers to make them.
Another question posed to you guys and gals. What does a particle pearl do, that you can't get a solid reactive to do by changing the surface preparation? Keep in mind that different cores will create a different look as well, so it has to be cover vs cover.
Mouthbig - I'm not sure. I will have to check with our webmaster and see when it is going to be announced. I should have an answer for you tomorrow.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: Spike2112 on August 13, 2007, 08:54:56 PM
Spike here. Just wanted to drop a line stating I'm a big Visionary fan and currently own 5 different Visionary balls. I couldn't be happier with the reaction and scoring with all of your equipment. Just a quick question regarding #6 I'm picking up from a fellow BR member. Getting a mint condition 15# Blue Warlock and I can't find much information regarding this one. I'm a power tweener who tracks very high and was wondering if this ball is high flaring if drilled strong. I prefer pin under ring drillings, but some balls roll over my thumb if they flare alot. Will it handle a heavy house shot in box condition? Thanks for any information you can give me on this older piece!
Spike
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 13, 2007, 08:57:01 PM
Thank you for your response. Do you find that with the fronts gone, and carrydown on the back, that a pearl particle clears the heads easy enough? The reason that I ask, is that from my testing, I have found that a particle pearls don't clear the heads very well unless they are polished, and once they are polished they lose some of their ability to handle carrydown. Very much the same effect as a strong solid reactive.
Once you lower the load of particle in the ball so that it can clear the heads easier, it loses some of it's ability to handle the heavier carrydown.
I don't know how anyone else feels, but I have found that once the heads start to go, and the carrydown starts to cause a problem, I switch to a higher differential ball that will create a little stronger read in the midlane. As long as the ball gets into a good roll, I haven't found enough carrydown that a solid reactive won't chew through it.
That being said, we have received enough requests for a particle pearl, that we will eventually come out with one. I just want to make sure that it is what people are looking for.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: NJStroker on August 13, 2007, 09:00:28 PM
quote:Well speaking for me, i have a low rev-rate so its pretty easy for me to get it to clear the heads. The solid reactive just hooks too much in the front for me
Hi Walter,
Thank you for your response. Do you find that with the fronts gone, and carrydown on the back, that a pearl particle clears the heads easy enough? The reason that I ask, is that from my testing, I have found that a particle pearls don't clear the heads very well unless they are polished, and once they are polished they lose some of their ability to handle carrydown. Very much the same effect as a strong solid reactive.
Once you lower the load of particle in the ball so that it can clear the heads easier, it loses some of it's ability to handle the heavier carrydown.
I don't know how anyone else feels, but I have found that once the heads start to go, and the carrydown starts to cause a problem, I switch to a higher differential ball that will create a little stronger read in the midlane. As long as the ball gets into a good roll, I haven't found enough carrydown that a solid reactive won't chew through it.
That being said, we have received enough requests for a particle pearl, that we will eventually come out with one. I just want to make sure that it is what people are looking for.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 13, 2007, 09:19:03 PM
I will have to check on the figures for a 14# Ogre in the morning when I get into the office. For 15# balls, the RG is 2.59 and the Diff is .029". Don't let the lower differential scare you off though, these balls have plenty of pop.
Hi Spike,
Nothing like going way back....lol. That was actually our very first release, and believe it or not, it is still a really nice piece. The original twilight Blue Warlock, was developed to be a solid all around ball. Depending on your style, it should be able to handle the med-heavy house shots in box condition.
It's not going to be the ball to use on floods, and it isn't a hook monster that will really impress people with it's total hook, but it will get the job done. I don't have the figures in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the diff was in the upper 40's or low 50's, and will create about 3-6" flare depending on your rev rate and ball speed.
If you have our Gryphons, I believe the total flare potential on the blue Warlock was pretty similar to these. If you want more details, shoot me an email at vbpadvertising@aol.com and I will get more specific information for you in the morning.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: charlest on August 13, 2007, 10:03:56 PM
quote:
Hi Walter,
This question has been posed many times, and eventually we will have a particle pearl that we release. To this point, I have still not found a particle pearl cover, that I could make react differently than a solid with the right surface adjustment. It's interesting really, because a lot of bowlers are upset with the fact that balls die off quicker when they have particle or oil absorbing covers, yet they still want manufacturers to make them.
Another question posed to you guys and gals. What does a particle pearl do, that you can't get a solid reactive to do by changing the surface preparation? Keep in mind that different cores will create a different look as well, so it has to be cover vs cover.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Jason,
1. Let me tell you what I have seen, and in my experience, regarding solid resin vs particle pearls:
To my eye, particle pearls can cover the same oil amount/pattern that solid resin balls do, but they seem to cvoer more boards while doing it
PLUS they seem to handle carrydown better while getting the same length with more backend AND more overall hook. I have seen this with both old particle pearls like the Brunswick Riot Zone, middle older particle pearls like the Hammer Razor Blade and newer ones like the Storm Pyro and the Shift.
The factors of more overall hook and more backend compared to solid resins seems, to my eye, to allow them to handle carrydown better than rougher and earlier hooking solid resin which also handle carrydown, but reduce carry power to an unspecified degree.
2. I would like to see the Ogre coverstock placed in a similar core to the current Ogre BUT with a greater RG differential (like the old Warlock DC cores: medium-high Rg and higher RG differential). I think this will allow them to handle carrydown better than they do now. I see this in my semi-polished "pumpkin" Ogre (polished before the Black/Purple one came out). I think a higher RG diff core drilled correctly would allow it (and the "blurple" Ogre) to handle carrydown better than simply sanding the surface rougher. Most times, sanding the surface won't allow the same ball to be used on the lanes with carrydown.
Thank you.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: shelley on August 13, 2007, 10:23:59 PM
quote:
Thank you for your response. Do you find that with the fronts gone, and carrydown on the back, that a pearl particle clears the heads easy enough? The reason that I ask, is that from my testing, I have found that a particle pearls don't clear the heads very well unless they are polished, and once they are polished they lose some of their ability to handle carrydown. Very much the same effect as a strong solid reactive.
I'd try a PP at a high grit sanding with no polish. I think a lot of folks like that 2000-grit sanded finish for particle pearls and solid reactives because it helps with the length but doesn't skid in the carrydown like a polish.
Visionary hasn't released anything with a high-grit finish that I've noticed. 1500-grit polished, but the matte-finish stuff is all 1000-grit and duller. Even Brunswick is starting to use high-grit Abralon finishes because they provide length without the susceptibility to carrydown that polished balls usually have.
SH
Edited on 8/13/2007 10:25 PM
Post by: Androooo on August 13, 2007, 11:05:27 PM
I would love to see the return of the old DC blocks with the new covers, especially Eradicator Pearl.
Are those Weightblocks still legal to use? (RG Diff)
--------------------
Andrew Phillips
The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl
Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 14, 2007, 12:10:53 AM
Blue Warlock Out of box = 600 grit
RG = 2.55
Diff = .050
Great benchmark ball for me.
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Edited on 8/14/2007 0:13 AM
Post by: Spike2112 on August 14, 2007, 05:18:35 AM
Spike
Post by: tommymo on August 14, 2007, 11:00:55 AM
I am thinking of trying Visionary. I am thinking of signing up for the Platinum test membership, and I was wondering if you could suggest 4 "must have" balls for a league and small tournament bowler. I was looking at the Ogre, Ogre Pearl and the Green/Blue Centaur.
TOM
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Becoming a father isn't difficult, But it's very difficult to be a father.
10/21/05 Kaitlyn Emily and 02/01/07 Meghan Alexis, Daddy's little girls!
R.I.P Kevin Trombley 11/26/05 You were taken too soon!
Tommy the Fish
F.O.S Mafia Soldier You throw balls, we throw BOMBS. No wonder you hate us
Enriched x2
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Cobalt Bomb
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 14, 2007, 12:14:46 PM
Thank you for the input. I know that in theory, what you are describing is exactly what is supposed to happen, but thus far I haven't really seen that in our testing. I guess it is possible that we simply haven't tested the right balls yet, but I usually try to find what I hear is the most popular ball at the time, and try to see what it is doing that makes it stand out.
Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), I find that what makes the ball so popular is often times not the reaction, but the hype behind it.
Have you tried the FM Signature Gryphon? While the cover isn't the same as the Ogre, they have similar characteristics, and if anything the React-A-Tack cover is a little stronger overall than the Eradicator. This would give you the med. RG and higher diff that you are describing in your post.
Hi Shelley,
We have tested the particle pearls with many different surface preperations, but we typically just try to mimic the surface prep on what are considered the more popular balls. We still use the old method of hand sanding on a spinner, so it's a little tough for us to exactly duplicate other manufacturers surfaces, but I think our 1,000 matte surface is fairly comparable to other companies who use resurfacing machines with abralon. We have tested balls using abralon vs sandpaper vs scotch brite, and at this point we don't feel the abralon gives enough benefit to outweigh the difference in cost.
That being said, even though 1,000 grit seems like it should be the same throughout all types of pads, different sandpapers and different pads produce varied surfaces. Typically, when a sandpaper is describing the grit, it is determined by the amount of abrasive mineral that can pass through a mesh screen with specific size openings. However, that doesn't take into account what type of abrasive material is being used. For example, 1,000 grit aluminum oxide sandpaper will give you a different finish than 1,000 grit silicon carbide, which again will be different from 1,000 grit garnet sandpaper.
I do agree with you about the scuffed balls vs polished balls though. A 1,000 grit scuffed ball will react differently than a 1000 grit polished ball, especially in the carrydown.
Hey Androo,
How are things down under? The DC core would no longer be legal to put in a ball. The RG Differential exceeds the new limits, so the USBC would reject any new submission that we sent to them.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: Oskuposer on August 14, 2007, 12:15:45 PM
--------------------
I am the Righty Rick Larence minus wrist guard.(crutch)
Good bowlers use the Big B
Kiall Hill
"Captain Fidget"
"Thanks Randy"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"
Post by: Cobalt Bomb on August 14, 2007, 12:26:22 PM
Hope this helps.
Joe
PS. I have no problem with a ball that only lasts 50-100 games, if it provides a competitive advantage. I just wish those companies that produce them would be a little more forthright about it.
Edited on 8/14/2007 12:36 PM
Post by: charlest on August 14, 2007, 12:50:32 PM
Thank you for the recommendation of the FMG and the comparison of the Eradicator and the React-a-Tack cover.
BTW I too am not one to take someone's word as to how a ball will react for me. WHat I described for particle pearls is what I have seen in my hand and with my eyes.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 8/14/2007 12:51 PM
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 14, 2007, 01:00:39 PM
It would really depend on your bowling style. I am assuming that you have a higher rev rate because you threw the G/B Centaur in there for drier lanes? Shoot me an email at vbpadvertising@aol.com, and we can go over stuff in detail.
Hi Joe,
When you are speaking of these balls, I assume you are talking about the soakers/oil absorbing covers and not particle pearls correct? I am also guessing that you are a tournament/better scratch league bowler?
I can understand why this could be benificial for someone who bowls quite a few tournaments, if the ball gives them an advantage. A ball can pay for itself in a week if it is good enough, but personally, and this is just my opinion, I would rather throw a ball that I knew I would still use a year from now, than have one that is going to be useless in 4-6 weeks.
I think part of what makes a great bowler, is knowing your equipment, and that's gotta be pretty tough if you have to turn it over 3-4 times per season. Don't get me wrong, if it does something different, and gives a competitive advantage to someone, I want to make sure our customers have it as well, but I would try to find a way to get this without sacrificing longevity.
For those of you who have thrown a fair amount of our equipment, is there a ball out there that stands out above our equipment? Obviously, if there is a concensus amongst a large number of bowlers, I want to know about it so that I can produce something to fill that void. We just don't like to release new balls, just so that we have a new ball on the market. I would love to release a particle pearl, but if I am going to add particles to a ball and shorten it's lifespan, I want to know that it is going to be what bowlers want.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 8/14/2007 1:02 PM
Post by: scotts33 on August 14, 2007, 01:37:32 PM
quote:
For those of you who have thrown a fair amount of our equipment, is there a ball out there that stands out above our equipment?
FMG....one of the msot versatile balls you have Jason.
Best scores to date and I don't submit them to you but I have had honor scores with the following.
Violet Gargoyle
Granite Gargoyle
Charcoal Executioner <------- left more 8 pins with this ball than any other I have used ever. That's how hard it hits.
G-3
Blue/Green Centaur
Solid Ogre
For me, I have no need for a particle pearl. I've tried one a DT VPP that was ordainary. I use other methods to bowl on carry down. I think it's more the bowler and his/her technique on carry down than always the equipment. We like to blame the ball but IMO it's more us.
The one ball I was surprized at it's ability to cut thru carry down was a Navy Fuze high RG for length and slightly scuffed. Of any it worked the best but alas it cracked all the way around last summer.
IMO...Visionary is one of the no hype manufacturers.
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Scott
Post by: Cobalt Bomb on August 14, 2007, 03:19:20 PM
I generally try a decent amount of equipment and get rid of what I don't like. I try to stick to one or two companies, so that I am familiar with their entire line of equipment, unless I see a distinct advance in another. (That's why I started using mostly Ebonite).
In my mind, the oil absorbing covers are a distinct advantage on oily or long patterns,(Shark, Scorpion)lessening the need for using particle covers.
On shorter/drier conditions, a disadvantage. That's why I have other equipment as well, including an RPM Swirl!
I don't use my competition equipment in practice very much, due to their short life, fortunately I can afford to do that. I can certainly see how this is difficult for the league bowler.
I am, though, impressed by your participation in this forum, similar to how Ron Hickland from Ebonite used to. I hope that I have helped you.
Joe
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 14, 2007, 03:42:12 PM
Just wanted to let you know the winner for June is up on the website, and July will be up within the next few days. June's winner was Michael Briggs from Florissant Mo.
Hi Joe,
I appreciate your input. I can see how those balls would take the place of particle balls, but just out of curiosity, why choose those over particle? If the problem with particle is simply longevity, isn't it like digging yourself out of one grave just to jump into another?
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: Cobalt Bomb on August 14, 2007, 05:55:53 PM
Of course these are not absolutes, depends on lane surface and where everyone else is playing.
Those covers do sense drying midlanes sooner than other pearl covers, however.
Perhaps a low load particle with a good cover would do close to the same thing but I haven't tried that.
Joe
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 14, 2007, 07:07:46 PM
When I said longevity, I meant the lifespan of the ball. Part of the reason a lot of people stopped purchasing particle balls, was because they die off quicker than standard reactives. I was just wondering if this was the reason you switched from particle to a more oil absorbing reactive cover.
Jason
Post by: Cobalt Bomb on August 14, 2007, 08:31:39 PM
As far a me personally, I have a relatively slow (15mph) ball speed and medium revs (rev dominant), so I don't often need to use particle equipment. The "one" covers simply let me use less surface for the same total hook, which helps due to my slow ball speed.
Joe
Post by: hotshot187 on August 14, 2007, 09:38:24 PM
Post by: darkman on August 16, 2007, 09:23:20 AM
In my view perhaps one two piece urethane and one polyester are missing from Visionary's current line up. Currently Visionary is working on a spare ball or something along that lines. If they do make another 2-piece urethane I think this will be the only company that is still making 2-piece urethanes with high performance cores. Sanded or not I am all for it and it certainly suits this great group afterall they are the remains of the legendary faball urethane hammer team.
I don't know about some of you guys, but I typically do better with balls that don't hook that much(especailly with alleys that have dry backends what I typically throw on) due to the strong cores the balls can and do hit sometimes better than reactives and in my view much more consistent than reactives. Of course a big plus about urethane is the life-span these balls can last along time even in those houses that track balls like crazy.
Anyways I own a Red Fireball Sorcerer, Glowing Amulet, & Slate Blue Gargoyle all urethane and the SBG is the best of them all and the latest urethane by Visionary. All balls are awsume shot my first 600 series with the Amulet and my best series thus far with the SBG.
I just got a Green/Blue Centaur, and from what I have heard this ball actually has a similer roll to the original pink hammer-. I have a pink hammer-almost got my first 300 with the pinky- and It is going to be interesting to see if that fact is right. Perhaps in due time I'll post a video comparing the two balls for the fun of it. In any case it is going to be interesting to see what comes next.
So Jason do you think the Original Centaur is actually similer to the pink hammer or urethane in general? I have read reviews where people say they can throw right up the edge with this ball and one even saying he has not been this far right with a ball since the 1970s(what he called the good old days).
Post by: bowl4jc on August 16, 2007, 07:27:38 PM
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 16, 2007, 09:02:54 PM
I got a chance today to look at the files, and the 14# Ogres have a Differential of .023" and the lowest RG is 2.61".
MikeP,
Nothing is for sure yet, but we have been working on finding a replacement for the slate Blue Gargoyle, and I do think we will have a urethane ball in the Ogre line.
Hi Darkman,
That's a tough question. I haven't thrown a pink for about 15 years, and the conditions were completely different back then. I can tell you that out of all of the reactive balls we have ever released, this is the smoothest and least hooking of them all. You will be able to play the straighter lines, and be further right than most solid reactives.
I would have to guess that the Slate Gargoyle would be much more comparable to the pink hammer than the green, but they both handle pretty dry lane conditions.
Bowl4jc,
Please check your messages. Deciding on which balls to get will be determined by your bowling style, lane conditions you bowl on, and what type of balls you prefer.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: hotshot187 on August 16, 2007, 09:37:55 PM
Post by: Androooo on August 17, 2007, 03:23:42 AM
The Green/Blue for me doubles as a spareball/toaster.
--------------------
Andrew Phillips
The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl
Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff
Post by: mab on August 17, 2007, 04:42:18 AM
Mike
Post by: darkman on August 17, 2007, 04:24:29 PM
Anyways It is going to be interesting to see if in fact the Green Centaur is actually going to be the first reactive I enjoy throwing and it will be fun comparing it to the pink hammer.
One could say how could a reactive possibly match up with one of the straightest balls ever made, well ya never know with visionary!
Thanks for your imput Jason!
Post by: ozsweet on August 18, 2007, 04:15:37 AM
So, what we want, is a re-release of :
Midnight Scorcher
Infra-Red Amulet
DC Tour Edition
Charcoal Executioner
Thanks, again, and keep up the good work!
--------------------
Just bowl!
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 20, 2007, 12:35:44 PM
Good to hear from you. Your statement is really funny, only because it is so true. Being in our position, it is extremely hard to try and figure out what people really want. Your comment is a perfect example; people say they don't want companies to just swap cores and covers, or re-release the same ball in a different color, but it's amazing how many people want us to come back out with the Amulet, Charcoal Ex, Slate, DC Tour etc.
In todays market, there is a very fine line between a manufacturer who is part of the "ball of the month club" and one who comes out with enough balls to satisfy the bowlers. I am still amazed at how many people ask about the next ball we are going to come out with immediately following a new release, and how many people get upset when a ball is pushed back a few weeks.
Currently, we just try to release a new ball based on filling a hole, or replacing a stagnant line. The Gargoyle line was available for nearly 7 years, and the sales just began to drop off, so we created a new mid-priced line in the Ogres. Bowlers wanted a ball that will hook in anything, so we created the AMB Particle. You wanted a reactive dry lane ball that was controllable, and didn't hook much, so we came out with the G/B Centaur. People asked for a 2 piece urethane with a real weightblock, so we came out with the Slate.
Here is another set of survey questions for everyone here.
1)How many balls can a company release before you would consider it a "ball of the month club member"?
2)How long do you feel a ball should remain in a current line (ex. if we release a new ball, how long should it be in the line before it is discontinued)?
3)How many of you have purchased a heavy oil ball, simply because it hooks so much, and then changed the surface before you even threw it?
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: scotts33 on August 20, 2007, 12:46:28 PM
quote:
1)How many balls can a company release before you would consider it a "ball of the month club member"?
More than 5-6 a year becomes a ball of the month type manufacturer. I don't see Visionary releasing more than 3 a year on the average....4 tops.
quote:
2)How long do you feel a ball should remain in a current line (ex. if we release a new ball, how long should it be in the line before it is discontinued)?
Basically 4 years especially if a seller and a niche filler.
quote:
3)How many of you have purchased a heavy oil ball, simply because it hooks so much, and then changed the surface before you even threw it?
I knew the Solid Ogre at 600 matte would be to much surface before I even bought it. Visionary's covers are easily adjustable so no problem for me. People with spinners are more able to do more than bowlers without. FYI.......I have a Midnight Scorcher and know that it is a specialized piece so I'd never change the cover it is what ti is a heavy/flood ball so the AMB Particle would be the same kind of ball I'd never change that either. FMG I'd change and know that going in...same with Burgundy Gryphon.
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Scott
Post by: Oskuposer on August 20, 2007, 12:46:42 PM
--------------------
I am the Righty Rick Larence minus wrist guard.(crutch)
Good bowlers use the Big B
Kiall Hill
"Captain Fidget"
"Thanks Randy"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"
Post by: jablosa on August 20, 2007, 03:43:35 PM
They keep working on new technology to make things better, this is good, if truly new.
In most cases, they have to create new things, cause when someone buys a ball, it doesn't seem to last. So to keep them coming, they have to create a new product...if you think about it, it is smart, cause bowlers will buy...cause they have no choice with their equipment dying..
I just bought my first VBP ball, and if what I am reading, there coverstocks seems to not die out like others. If this is the case, we would not need to replace as necessary. This will also allow us to buy other pieces of the puzzle, rather than buying new things to replace the ones that stopped working. I like VBP's theory, and I am ready to sign up for the test staff, and give them a year long chance. I drill a lot of equipment for friends, so this could become a monster.... Keep up the great work Visionary, and we will see how things go...
Post by: Androooo on August 20, 2007, 10:39:29 PM
Maybe in a year or 2 (I think) for the 10th Birthday Celebrations of VBP, maybe you could come up with a competition and have a poll as to what "retired" ball get re-released.
Could it be YOUR favourite, the Charcoal Executioner?
Maybe the DC Tour (what a pretty colour)
I think that could work, but what do I know... I'm Australian
PS... How's the Catfish bitin'?
--------------------
Andrew Phillips
The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl
Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 21, 2007, 01:29:45 AM
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: Androooo on August 21, 2007, 01:41:01 AM
--------------------
Andrew Phillips
The Tenpin Bowling Discount Store - Moonah Bowl
Team Bowling Balls Australia - Visionary Staff
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 21, 2007, 01:52:08 AM
quote:
1)How many balls can a company release before you would consider it a "ball of the month club member"?
I've heard this statement many times, especially on this site, but never really understood the specific number that it implied, unless they actually meant 12 balls a year, so I would say at least 10.
quote:
2)How long do you feel a ball should remain in a current line (ex. if we release a new ball, how long should it be in the line before it is discontinued)?
Everyone is going to think that their favorite ball should be manufactured forever, but it really should boil down to sales for the manufacturer. If it is no longer selling (profitable), it should be discontinued. I dont have a problem with using a ball 4-10 yrs old if it still fills a need (Blue Warlock, Green Gargoyle), but I also like trying new equipment (B/P Ogre).
quote:
3)How many of you have purchased a heavy oil ball, simply because it hooks so much, and then changed the surface before you even threw it?
No, I will try the ball first in OOB just to see what it does or doesnt, do. Then I may put it on the spinner and change the surface, but I usually keep at least one heavy oil ball in OOB for the rare occurance of a flood. I've found that most heavy oil balls will act like they are DOA for me on our normal THS, so if I want to use them, they have to be modified.
Oh, BTW, for those who are unfamilar with Visionary - if Visionary says a ball is for a flood or very heavy oil (Midnight Scorcher, AMB Particle), believe them.
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 21, 2007, 01:57:09 AM
quote:
Could be.... I'm Australian. AND BLONDE ok??
I thought that blonde excuse only worked for women.
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 23, 2007, 01:03:51 PM
Most of our balls are in the line for several years, many of which have been for over 5 years. This has never been much of an issue. We like the fact that a bowler can purchase a ball when it is released and then come back a couple years later and replace it with the same ball if they want.
I was just curious about the "Flood Ball" question. I can't tell you how many calls I receive, where someone purchases a ball for heavy oils, yet immediately polishes the ball without even throwing it. I'm not saying that it may not work as well or better with a different surface, but I don't understand why people wouldn't atleast throw the ball in box, on the condition they bought it for, prior to adjusting the surface.
This would be our 10th year, and the idea of having an anniversary ball, possibly a reintroduction, has been thrown around here many times. The possibility is there, but unfortunately it couldn't be from the DC line even if we wanted it to.
Lillen,
Check your email. I sent you a response directly to your email, so hopefully we can get your questions answered for you.
Hey Andrew,
Haven't had time to throw a line out for quite a while, but when I catch another big one I will send you pictures
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: pop_1 on August 23, 2007, 01:44:56 PM
quote:
VBPadvertising
Posted: 8/23/2007 1:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While we don't plan on getting near that number, you will probably see a small increase in the number of releases in the upcoming year. Partially because of demand, and also an outside factor that I can't really get into at the moment.
Speculation...Are you going back on Tour? That would be awesome!!!!!!
Post by: MC on August 24, 2007, 04:01:55 PM
At one point I think you had said there was a new catalog that we should be expecting to receive. When should those be coming out?
MC
--------------------
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up."
-Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
-Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story 
Post by: VBPadvertising on August 24, 2007, 06:16:33 PM
We do have the new catalogs, and we should have them mailed sometime next week, and bulk mail usually takes about 5-10 days, so you should have them within the next couple weeks.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: MI 2 AZ on August 26, 2007, 12:53:51 AM
https://www.buddiesproshop.com/products/13-bBargain_BuysCloseoutsb/0~99999/11-Visionary/All/All/page.htm Only 1 left.
http://www.bowlersdream.com/violetgargoyle.html
You could also contact Visionary and see if they have any in stock.
http://www.visionarybowling.com/ Click on the Email tab.
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: MC on September 03, 2007, 05:36:09 PM
Can you give us an idea of what we can expect from VBP over the next 3 months? Thanks
Mike
--------------------
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up."
-Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
-Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story Post by: Joe Jr on September 03, 2007, 05:53:42 PM
--------------------
My Vid (http://"http://media.putfile.com/new-48-28")
Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium
Quote from Conspirator300:
And yeah, I do know it all.. I don't spend 30+ hours a week learning more about bowling for my heatlh... I do it so I know more than all of you.. which I do. (besides the random few that are staffers/work in the bowling business.. which that population is decreasing little by little)
Post by: VBPadvertising on September 05, 2007, 01:51:28 PM
We are currently working on several new balls, but at this point we haven't decided in which order they are going to be released. We have a new high performance line that we will be releasing in the near future, as well as a particle Ogre. We have also been working with new urethanes, so that we can try and meet the demand for another urethane ball with a dynamic core. In addition, we will have a new lineup of shirts within the next month and hopefully a new accessories catalog shortly after.
Hi Joe,
We are constantly revisiting the PBA issue. I would love to be registered so that everyone could use our equipment, but unfortunately the cost simply outweighs the benefits. Unless something changes with the registration fees, I really don't see us becoming a registered partner anytime soon.
Thanks again,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: twister on September 05, 2007, 04:43:30 PM
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member since 1988.
Post by: JVan19 on September 06, 2007, 07:22:51 AM
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"It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up."
-Vince Lombardi
Post by: VBPadvertising on September 10, 2007, 03:01:42 PM
We do have a one new shirt that is like a mock turtle neck, although the height of the neck is more like a t-shirt than it is a turtle neck. It is similar to many of the sport shirts that are being worn for by athletes in other sports. I will post a picture of it as soon as I receive the first samples back from our embroiderer (should only be a few days).
Hey JVan,
It would most likely depend on what weight you are looking for. If you can email me at VBPadvertising@aol.com and let me know what weight, I will look to see what we have left.
Thanks again,
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Post by: getuaload on October 03, 2007, 09:50:32 AM
you can email me at stop_and_pop@yahoo.com
My specs are
18-19 mph
high rev rate (not sure the numbers)
PAP 4 5/8'' over 3/4'' up
--------------------
Visionary Test staff 07/08
Post by: getuaload on October 11, 2007, 11:58:10 AM
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Visionary Test staff 07/08
Post by: wkf0908 on October 26, 2007, 11:25:57 PM
Would it be possible to add mass bias for the future Orge?
Post by: charlest on October 29, 2007, 08:36:20 PM
This is just a matter of academic interest.
Regarding the composition of the Purple Ice's coverstock,
on the Visionary's discontinued balls web page,
http://www.visionarybowling.com/ItemsForSale/shopcartindex.html
I saw this description:
"Light load particle pearl ball with a blend base."
Does that mean that the base in which the particles were embedded
was a blend of urethane and resin?
If not, what was it a blend of?
Thanks.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Edited on 11/4/2007 10:27 PM
Post by: charlest on November 01, 2007, 05:51:43 PM
Post by: VBPadvertising on November 02, 2007, 12:44:38 PM
Sorry about the little hiatus, things have just been a little crazy lately.
getuaload,
Glad to hear that the ball is working now. I figured that the different layout would help out a lot, so it's good to know that it actually worked.
wkf0908,
It would be possible to do another version of the core, with a different mass bias, but I think that the core shape has run it's course. We used this core design as kind of an experiment, to show bowlers how modifications in densities and slight changes in shapes can make a very significant difference in ball reaction. As can be seen by looking at the core design, the Green/Blue Centaur, AMB Centaurs, Immortals, and the Ogres all have used a fairly similar shape, with a wide variety of cap and density changes. By adjusting the cap locations and densities, we made balls with virtually no differential (G/B Centaur) all the way up to balls with highest approvable differential (Immortal line). In addition we were able to create balls with a mild arcing reaction, skid/snap balls with huge backends, and balls that will hook on an oil slick.
Dbar71,
I wish that I could give you an answer in one direction or another with the spare balls. Obviously, we would love to have our clear ball back in the line. We have been trying unsuccessfully for several years now to try and find someone who can make them to our standards. Unfortunately these balls cannot be made here in the US, and keep a competitive price. Clear polyester here in the states is very expensive, and trying to make them domestically would be too cost prohibitive. We have not given up with the search, and we are going to continue our attempts at trying to find someone to make them properly.
Charlest,
You are absolutely right. At the time we released the Purple Ice Executioner, the idea of a particle pearl was a little different than it is now. Back then, the goal for a PP was to create a ball with a consistant roll, yet still hit and carry like a reactive. We combined a few basic urethane polyols with a reactive blend, and threw in a soft, non-abrasive particle to create the Purple Ice. It wasn't the most aggressive ball nor the most forgiving, but it was consistant and hit very hard. I think part of the reason that it didn't go over as well as anticipated, was because the ball did not correct user error. If you released the ball differently or missed your mark, most of the time you knew it. However, it did blend out tough/spotty conditions so that bowlers could use it on sport or tournament patterns.
Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products
Edited on 11/2/2007 12:47 PM
Post by: charlest on November 03, 2007, 05:46:10 AM
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Edited on 11/4/2007 10:27 PM
Post by: darkman on November 23, 2007, 08:50:09 PM
Post by: MI 2 AZ on November 23, 2007, 08:54:49 PM
--------------------
________________________________________
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: REvans284 on November 23, 2007, 09:39:03 PM
I have seen the Ogre Solid used recently at a tournament and with a strong layout, it had more length than what I expected. The good thing about that though was he could play up the track where noone else could, and the ball just hit phenominal with great carry and messengers everywhere. Either way I want something stronger in the mid lane but not quite as strong as the FMG/AMB Solid or Immortals with their flare high flare potential (closer to the Violet Gargoyle but maybe with a lower RG for a faster reving core). That would be great.
Later,
REvans284
Post by: MI 2 AZ on February 05, 2009, 01:14:34 PM
--------------------
I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
New to BR? - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 05, 2009, 07:37:44 PM
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Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation