BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Visionary => Topic started by: Matt C on April 19, 2015, 11:08:44 PM
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As always your input is greatly appreciated.
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Looks nice Matt. About time they released a ball. :)
But why the particle? Smooth it out? 14 lb. numbers?
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Scott,
After the long discussion out hear on particles...
I continue to believe as I read words like grittier, "additives", Ball numbers that end in T etc that they have been around all the time!
I was just thinking of breaking out my old Radar Alert just this week. A pearl Particle that rounds off those sharp corners a 55 to 70 degree axis rotation bowler creates with Pearls!
Oh,,,those sharp corners they look exciting! But carry is not always there. Those particles, "additives", grittier surfaces....man they round off those corners.
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Great Video Matt, nice to see a lefty. I am not a lefty but good to see they are represented. Ball is great really versatile piece!
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Jason really gave no indication why they put a light load of particle in the cover.
I will ask him about the 14lb specs, as the ones listed are for 15lbs would be my guess.
It is mildly odd they did not give the cover stock a name. Just reactive with light load particle. The big boys love to name the cover and hype it up. Jason just makes balls that work and let them do the talking.
Usually I give Storm a lot of grief about reusing the lightbulb core and just tweeking numbers, BUT I loved the ogre core and seeing it resurface in the Raven was a bonus.
The Raven is a very solid piece that unfortunately the majority of bowlers will never see. Especially east of the Mississippi!
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Jason really gave no indication why they put a light load of particle in the cover.
The Raven is a very solid piece that unfortunately the majority of bowlers will never see. Especially east of the Mississippi!
I'm glad I decided to give the Raven a chance. I'm out here in Utah and I've had quite a few people ask me what I'm throwing. The ball moves and the color really grabs some attention.
I wish I didn't break my camera so I could get some video up. I did get some video with my tablet, but the quality isnt that great.
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Nice vid Matt (and Todd). The lefty throws the ball more different than Phil so it's nice to see a down and in, or really small bellyhook, to gauge the rolls. His is smoother, but still continuous. The ball really takes off from the dry on yours when you hit the outside. Really impressive reaction from the ball.
Thanks for doing the vids!!
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Thats my house!! Flood in the mids and free hook outside. Really easy shot that for some reason I struggled on this year. There is a magic spot outside that if you hit it the 10 pin falls, but if you miss it you will hang 10 pins all night playing way out there.
Todd is a converted cranker who plays more of a down and in shot now, yah its from the left side but the revs and speed matched up to what I was looking for.
Not sure Jason would take on a 3rd, but have kinda a tweener guy available if needed.
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Raven continues to shine. 789 tonight in the city team tourny. I really really like this ball.
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Thanks for all of the videos, you guys do a great job. Just curious how would you say the Raven differs from the Samurai? Thank you.
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About the same length but much harder off the dry. Raven is easily 4 to 5 boards stronger than the Samurai.
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Thanks a lot Matt, I appreciate it.
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I have read a lot on here about the Raven, and I must say I am intrigued. I was never a big fan of particle balls in the past. I still remember buying a "Swamp Monster" and being severely disappointed in it's performance, it wasn't even a disgruntled kitty much less a monster for me. But I have had some success in the past with particle pearls, like the old Roto Grip Oracle Vision. I have been thinking of trying Visionary for some time, and the Raven might be the ball to get me to do it. The question I have is where do I get one? I haven't seen Visionary in any of the pro shops around me (but to be fair I haven't really asked directly yet), and I don't see them available on any of the major online retailers either. Where is the best place to purchase Visionary at this time? Thanks for your help.
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Phone: (314) 388-3446
that is their direct number, they should be able to point you to someplace to pick one up.
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So after having my Raven for awhile I realized that with the layout I chose it was just too angular off the spot for what I wanted it to do.
Added a hole a couple weeks ago to tone it down some. Adding the extra hole an inch above my PAP with a good size diameter has solved my problem and fit the Raven right where I wanted it in my arsenal.
It's a great medium oil ball that can handle heavier volume but can also move left and still carry. Smooth motion but no quit
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Yeah the Raven is nice, went and practiced on Viper Fresh and Broken down Scorpion ball was really good on both. Can't wait to use it on PBA league starting Monday.
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Yeah the Raven is nice, went and practiced on Viper Fresh and Broken down Scorpion ball was really good on both. Can't wait to use it on PBA league starting Monday.
We had our big ToC tournament at our house yesterday. 6 games of qualifying then cut to top 4 for stepladder.
I threw my Raven the last 5 games of qualifying because we were following a pair with women that left carrydown. The Raven gave me a great look cutting through the carrydown.
Qualified 2nd and won the semifinals 258-171 but lost the finals 266-276
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Yeah the Raven is nice, went and practiced on Viper Fresh and Broken down Scorpion ball was really good on both. Can't wait to use it on PBA league starting Monday.
We had our big ToC tournament at our house yesterday. 6 games of qualifying then cut to top 4 for stepladder.
I threw my Raven the last 5 games of qualifying because we were following a pair with women that left carrydown. The Raven gave me a great look cutting through the carrydown.
Qualified 2nd and won the semifinals 258-171 but lost the finals 266-276
Nice bowling Ryan! Raven is a nice piece, to bad Visionary is getting over looked..
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Nice bowling Ryan! Raven is a nice piece, to bad Visionary is getting over looked..
That's always been the problem sadly. Wish that would change. If people actually gave Jason and family a chance, I think a lot of people would be taking the plunge on more of their stuff!
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I have never used Visionary, but I am interested in this ball. I went to the website to get more info, and I didn't see this ball, and it looks like the site hasn't been updated in awhile..........?
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I have never used Visionary, but I am interested in this ball. I went to the website to get more info, and I didn't see this ball, and it looks like the site hasn't been updated in awhile..........?
They are working on a new website from what I heard. Here is a link to an online seller with the Raven:
http://www.bowlerscellar.com/apps/webstore/products
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Thanks MI.....any idea of conditions? Heavy, Med heavy, etc......?
Thanks for the info!
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the shot in the Video is Heavy with free hook outside
The Raven will shine on a med/med heavy shot, depending on drilling to some degree.
Almost hated to see the season end as I was having a blast throwing it.
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Thanks Matt.
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The Raven will shine on a med/med heavy shot, depending on drilling to some degree.
For me the Raven rolls great when a pattern gets a little tighter. It's definitely at home on shots that are a little heavier than your average medium shot
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I was not sure what it was rated for. Being for med-hvy or hvy would explain why mine has not been as expected. I usually do better with med or med-light balls at my house.
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Hey MI, how have you been? I'm still looking at getting this ball too, although it's a real pain with such an apparently small company. I'm interested in your "mine has not been as expected" comment. You've given good feedback in the past... What do you think? I'm clearly turned off by the video now since Matt describes the shot as "free hook outside", so forget what we see in the video. What do you see in real life?
Thanks in advance
Steve
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I'm clearly turned off by the video now since Matt describes the shot as "free hook outside", so forget what we see in the video. What do you see in real life?
Thanks in advance
Steve
What you see in the Video is what I bowl on every night in league.
It is a typical house shot, except I get plenty of volume to play with in the mids. honestly what house shot does not have free hook outside.
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First off, I appreciate Matt C's posts, I find them very informative and helpful.
My comment about the Raven is based only on my house and myself. This season the house decided to rotate between three patterns for all leagues, 42, 40 and 39 ft. I don't believe there is a lot of volume in any of the three. When I had the Raven drilled up, they had just switched over to the 39 ft pattern. I did not try the Raven very many times, perhaps three times. The first time, it seemed to hook very early, so I changed the surface in an attempt to get more length. I did but I did not like the reaction so I then changed it back to the factory stated surface of 2k and decided to wait until they change the patterns back to one of the other ones to see how it reacts. That might not be until next season as the leagues have ended.
I have found in the past with other balls that due to my slow speed and low rev rate, that medium to med-light balls work better for me on my THS patterns the last couple of years. Most of the stronger balls at factory surfaces appear to be weak (burning up?) even though they look great in other bowlers' hands. Some of them will work better for me after a surface change and/or polishing. I am a stroker who's A game is more of a straight up the line with a slight swing type of game. I am not comfortable any longer moving deep and swinging the ball.
In the past, when they had longer oil patterns and/or more volume or sport patterns, some of the Med-Hvy and Hvy balls would work for me so I keep hoping that they will change back to those type of patterns. I have had my best series' this season when the new lane machine has broken and they had to use the older lane machine which is programmed with a 44ft pattern.
Visionary balls are quality balls and very easy to adjust surfaces on. My driller always comments on how hard it is to drill into a Visionary ball, no soft filler material and usually deeper coverstock.
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funny you should mention that about your driller. Mine also complains every time I bring one in. Especially 2pc balls like the Warlock and the Ogre.
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I have noticed that when I have some other company's balls drilled, the holes feel much looser than the ones in the Visionary balls. My driller says that he uses the same size drill bit but I feel a difference.
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Appreciate the politically correct response to my question MI, but that's the whole point. I'm also a low rev low speed bowler, as are you, so I would certainly pick up more from what you've seen in real life than any video advertising free hook. And no Matt, respectfully, as a low rev low speed 55+ lefty, I DON'T see "free hook" in any house, which is why I, like MI, am more straight up the boards. Therefore, respectfully, the video is a bit disingenuous. Doesn't mean I don't want to try it, but it's a pain to get, and I only buy a few balls a year. Can't waste the choices.
I too have trouble with the high end balls hitting weak. I never cross over, it just seems to burn up (I still have trouble figuring out why it burns up instead of crossing over, but that's another thread). :)
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PC response. :) Guess I worked for the govt too many years.
Wish I could give you a better answer on the Raven, but I did not use it that much yet. I will bring it with me on Monday to the senior league. They are supposed to be using the longer 42 ft pattern so I can try it and see. With my house you never know what is going to be out there though. Last time I had 39ft and the rest of the lanes were 42 ft. The laneman must have realized it was the wrong pattern and switched after my pair.
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Where can we get the Raven? I have been looking for a particle Pearl since my Trusty RSP cracked out on me. Thank you 8)
Todd
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Bowlers cellar has them. And the new invasion also
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Where can we get the Raven? I have been looking for a particle Pearl since my Trusty RSP cracked out on me. Thank you 8)
Todd
http://www.bowlerscellar.com/apps/webstore/ (http://www.bowlerscellar.com/apps/webstore/)
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Matt/Charlest
Thank you. So these are not available to pro shops? My driller said he could not get them through his distributor.
Also how close would this be to the RSP? I know the #s are slightly different....
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Matt/Charlest
Thank you. So these are not available to pro shops? My driller said he could not get them through his distributor.
Also how close would this be to the RSP? I know the #s are slightly different....
Your driller or you can call Visionary directly and order (314-388-3446). Soon you will be able to order from there website as a lot of distributors and pro shops are not carrying VBP. If you would like, talk to Jason Wonders and he can help you with drilling and ball choice.
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Matt/Charlest
Thank you. So these are not available to pro shops? My driller said he could not get them through his distributor.
Also how close would this be to the RSP? I know the #s are slightly different....
Almost impossible for me to tell. I had the RS-X but not the RS-P. The RS-P did have a lower RG than the Ravens; that could be significant.
The RS-P was intended for Medium-Heavy oil but that was a full 10 years ago. Today it could be for medium to medium-heavy, while the Raven is more for medium on today's oil.
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Matt,
I just got the Raven, getting it drilled today :) Wanted to see how the Invasion compares in your opinion. Would this be a good go to when the Raven is too much?
Thank you
Todd
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FOR ME :
Raven hooks earlier and in a more smooth arc
Invasion is later and has a very strong arc.
Ball layout and your bowling style will affect your results some.
OH and BTW.
on the new website you can now buy the balls direct.