BallReviews
General Category => Youth Bowling => Topic started by: willie makeit on February 13, 2009, 07:58:14 AM
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So USBC does it again. If you turn 20 before 8/1/09, you will no longer be a junior bowler next season. Anyone who read this care? How many of you bowl regularly in scholarhsip tournaments and now have lost a year to do so?
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That will probably effect many college youth bowlers.
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Good. Just one more reason for me to go adult. I was going to shoot for team USA before I turned 20, but maybe I'll just categorize that goal under "f$%# it."
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JAT Junior Amateur Tour
Robb's Pro Shops: Bakersfield, California
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
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This just aggravates people even more about the USBC. There are plenty of high level tournaments around here for youth that will lose almost half of their regular participants because of this new rule. Don't get me wrong, I know why they would want to lower it, but to do it simply out of the blue with no warning taking years of youth eligibility away from kids isn't right. End of story.
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The Moose is Loose
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The age should be set at the age of graduating college seniors which is around 22. These bowlers who are still in college deserve just as much of a chance to win scholarship money as others. It is ignorant to say that a junior bowler is age 19 and under, how are they taking money at tournaments if they have the skill level to do so? That's like saying you should limit the age of adults bowling in tournaments because they may be older/more experienced and taking a good bit of the money. That's the stupidest reason I've ever heard. The rule has been set at 21 for over 20 years, why change it now?
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SC Youth Leaders President
Proud member of:
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NC Toughshots Tour
http://bowltsr.com
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When you could legally go buy a pitcher of Newcastle after a junior league, something is wrong. USBC was only wrong in not making it 18. Smoking legally in juniors is also crazy.
You don't see little league players smoking and drinking.
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good im glad they changed they need to lower it to 18. 18 is when they say you become an adult no? I remeber bowling jbts with guys that had a girlfriend and 2kids and should be in adults, but because of the rulebook just abuse the age im 19 going into adult league.
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yes i sandbag im left handed.
Typical house bowler
Avg-210
lineup:
need some balls p
Quantum Le
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i dont get why so many people are b_tchin about this new rule. youth bowling is just politics now. if ur not in the top 5 or ten in the country theres no point in bowling youth. theres no money and junior gold is becoming a joke. once people see all the money is in mens leagues and tournaments they will change their minds.
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
arsenal: sauce rival arch rival dead flush blue vibe scout jazz SR300 plastic
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
p.s. go leftys
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Well the interesting question I have now is what will Jeff do with JBT? JBT is not USBC sanctioned so will they allow bowlers to still bowl as a junior until they are 22 or will he change his rule also?
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
J-Rad Lawrence
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I feel that this rule needed to be put into effect personally!! It was either change the rule or put a college division/18 yrs and older division into play.
How many kids go to college and get some really good coaching to go to JBTs, Olympic Gold, or just regular youth tournaments in your area and beat up on 16 yr olds that are averaging 200 but have no clue about equipment or mental game ( I know they all think they do, but someday they will look back and say WOW I really didn't have a clue! )
Students go to colleges with some very well coached teams, that is unfair to most of the juniors that cannot even get into college yet because they are still in high school! They don't at times have the same access to equipment as most college teams that are sponsored do! Just alot of unfair advantages to someone that is over the age of 18 and still bowling juniors!
All the youth bowlers this rule effects good luck and enjoy your last year as a USBC youth member!
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George Palumbo
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I think that it is stupid to change the age limit because it affects the 20 people that make junior team USA. The sensible thing to do would be that only those under 20 are allowed to make junior team USA and the rest can still bowl JOG and try to win our junior national championship.
I really don't understand the reasoning that the older kids keep the younger kids from winning tournaments or whatever point you guys are trying to make. I bowl on the northeast jbt and our all-time title leader won like 40 tournaments before he even entered college. I think i read that the kid that has been dominating the southwest jbt the last few years is only 16. Also, how many colleges actually have top notch coaching? 10-15? I never bowled in college so I could be wrong but it just seems like such a small proportion of kids plus half those kids go adult anyway. Most of the kids are really good before they go to college too so it's not like they go their as a terrible bowler and then become great because of the coaching.
I realize that my view is a little biased because this ruling would take away my final year of youth eligibility. But it just seems like another thing usbc has done to become more of a joke and the way they handled this announcement was just stupid. They put two lines about it at the end of an article about changes to youth membership and give no reason for it. The arguments for this change just don't make sense to me.
Edited on 2/15/2009 5:10 PM
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There is an issue here that no one is bringing up. What do the NCAA woman do? They can't go adult because of eligibility and they can't bowl youth because they are too old. So what? Just not bowl for a few years? That will really help the sport on the collegiate level...
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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it
The Cell Pimp
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18 is the right age, when your in college you shouldn't be able to bowl in youth tournaments, you are a young adult. Buck up and start bowling leagues, get a job and help pay for your college tuition, YOUR PARENTS HAVE SUPPORTED YOU LONG ENOUGH
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
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quote:
i dont get why so many people are b_tchin about this new rule. youth bowling is just politics now. if ur not in the top 5 or ten in the country theres no point in bowling youth. theres no money and junior gold is becoming a joke. once people see all the money is in mens leagues and tournaments they will change their minds.
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
arsenal: sauce rival arch rival dead flush blue vibe scout jazz SR300 plastic
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
p.s. go leftys
Couldn't agree more. There are the Mark French, Devin Bidwell, Andrew Koff, Matt Jones, etc of the youth bowlers (Mark moved up a year ago)...and they absolutely dominate...
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18? are you guys nuts? half of us are still in high school at 18. also, with the rule where juniors can bowl in adult tournaments, whats the point of lowering the limit.... no one is forcing anyone to stay junior.
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Team QQ
Edited on 2/15/2009 8:05 PM
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18 is the right age, when your in college you shouldn't be able to bowl in youth tournaments, you are a young adult. Buck up and start bowling leagues, get a job and help pay for your college tuition, YOUR PARENTS HAVE SUPPORTED YOU LONG ENOUGH
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
I agree. I'm 18 and in high school. 18 is nuts. Way too young. 21 was a good age, I think the 20 pushes it too far.
As far as the other comment, "get a job and help pay for your college tuition, YOUR PARENTS HAVE SUPPORTED YOU LONG ENOUGH." I have a job. Staying in school. My 4.5 GPA is my job, thank you very much. Just because the government is more willing to afford food stamps and welfare for Mrs. invitro fertilization with 2000 kids instead of investing in our future by providing the top 5 kids from every high school in the nation with a college education is absolutely no reason I should have to be a full time student with a full time job. Thanks anyway.
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Well the interesting question I have now is what will Jeff do with JBT? JBT is not USBC sanctioned so will they allow bowlers to still bowl as a junior until they are 22 or will he change his rule also?
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
J-Rad Lawrence
I think Jeff will drop the age down just like the rule change with the USBC. Basically the only USBC rule he doesn't follow/agree with is the Smart Fund.
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JAT Junior Amateur Tour
Robb's Pro Shops: Bakersfield, California
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Edited on 2/15/2009 8:36 PM
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quote:
18 is the right age, when your in college you shouldn't be able to bowl in youth tournaments, you are a young adult. Buck up and start bowling leagues, get a job and help pay for your college tuition, YOUR PARENTS HAVE SUPPORTED YOU LONG ENOUGH
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Start bowling leagues? Why, so we can go bowl with all the guys who go there to get drunk and complain all night that the pattern wasn't the same as last week or don't understand why their ball is hooking too much? I don't even bowl youth leagues anymore because the kids don't care.
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i started adult league tonight freakin drunks one guy whiffs a 10 throws his shoe at me. Wtf is that i understand frustration but buddy calm down go for a walk relax something. GOsh some adults act like little kids. Idiots rawr angry /rantoff
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yes i sandbag im left handed.
Typical house bowler
Avg-210
lineup:
need some balls p
Quantum Le
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quote:
There is an issue here that no one is bringing up. What do the NCAA woman do? They can't go adult because of eligibility and they can't bowl youth because they are too old. So what? Just not bowl for a few years? That will really help the sport on the collegiate level...
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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it
The Cell Pimp
+1
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The Moose is Loose
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quote:
i started adult league tonight freakin drunks one guy whiffs a 10 throws his shoe at me. Wtf is that i understand frustration but buddy calm down go for a walk relax something. GOsh some adults act like little kids. Idiots rawr angry /rantoff
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yes i sandbag im left handed.
Typical house bowler
Avg-210
lineup:
need some balls p
Quantum Le
Funny. I deserved that though. Look all I meant was that I don't think adult leagues are going to have the same competitive atmosphere as junior tournaments. Sure there are some adult leagues that are competitive but I've gone and seen that they aren't the same and have been told as much by the people I know. It just sucks to go through this season thinking I have another year in juniors and now I probably don't. I have the rest of my life to bowl adult, why wouldn't I want to take advantage of juniors as long as possible?
Edited on 2/15/2009 10:31 PM
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So I am a moron for expecting kids to grow up, too many times I see kids bowling while they are old enough to get a job and support their own habits.
Congrats for you that you paid your own dues, but isn't that what bowling is about.
1st and foremost you have no idea who I am, so to call me a moron for expressing my views is about as moronic as it gets.
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And you're a moron. Who are you to say that just because 18 year old kids are bowling youth, mommy and daddy are paying for it?
I paid for my own bowling when I was in juniors, and I left when I was 20.
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18 is the right age, when your in college you shouldn't be able to bowl in youth tournaments, you are a young adult. Buck up and start bowling leagues, get a job and help pay for your college tuition, YOUR PARENTS HAVE SUPPORTED YOU LONG ENOUGH
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
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Shake it off how my birthdays July 27th..
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Sorry, but getting a job at 19 or 20 does not pay for college when tuition gets upwards of 20K
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The Moose is Loose
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What I want to know is...(and please don't take this personally),is it really that big of a deal.. Take your personal feelings aside if the rule effects YOU immediately. Is it really that big of a deal that you by law are classified as an adult, being moved to the adult level of bowling. Do YOU, as a 20 year old, really consider yourself a kid, or in this case a youth?
Why do some of the youth bowlers in this country find it okay to compete in Adult bowling tournaments, yet as soon as this age out change is announced, I've read about petitions being started to try to reverse the decision? Are you serious? No matter how you look at it, that's contradictory. To say, "I'm a USBC youth member, I'm going to go bowl the PBA Regional under rule 400 so I can compete against adult bowlers for the same money they are bowling for. Obviously I feel that I am able to compete at that level, because why else would I spent $275. But it's not fair to age me out of youth bowling at the age of 20 to go bowl against those same adults on a weekly basis." Tell me how that makes sense..
So you don't have Jr Gold, USBC Youth Open, etc. We have tournaments up in the old folks range too you know.. Honestly, more fun and challenging tournaments if you want to ultimately become the best you can be in this SPORT..The USBC Open, Masters, US Open, PBA, Team USA Trials, are not events you can just show up at and do well either.. But let me guess, the older kids are not going to be as dominant against the larger adult fields than they would be again Teenagers and Pre-Teens at national events. Ask Andrew Koff about that, he's 17 and still had 2 1/2 years to bowl at the youth level if he chooses to, and he's established himself as pretty capable of bowling against the best the scary adult bowling world has to offer.
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Acts,
I think you just nailed another thing that usbc screwed up. I don't understand that rule either and haven't taken advantage of it so I can't tell you how those who have feel.
I do know that in my case it really has nothing to do with those big major tournaments like junior gold and the youth open(which is run nowhere near the level of the adult usbc open in my opinion). If I couldn't bowl them I really wouldn't care and I probably won't bowl the youth open this year anyway. It has more to do with the week-to-week tournaments that are run like the jbts. There just are not adult scratch tournament series that run as consistently as jbts do. I just checked the 20 tournaments I bowled in and about 12 or 13 were won by kids still in high school while only 7 or 8 were won by kids already in college. So the notion that the older kids dominate the teenagers and pre-teens doesn't really make sense, not to me anyway. It just seems to me to be a case that the system really wasn't broken so why try and fix it?
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wp,
It was nothing personal against any one individual, but against those kids who have taken advantage of rule 400 and don't like this rule change,
that rant was a copy and paste that I took from my post on one of the tournament websites where I used to bowl their youth tour. But I felt that it would carry the same weight here.. On that tour we have a good amount of bowlers who do both the youth events and bowl some adult events, some who have bowled some regionals as well..those same kids came on and were the first ones to complain about the age out change..a lot of kids I have talked to recently feel they are good enough to compete against adults but are mad that they have to bowl against the adults next year..
I was a member of YABA until I was 21. I planned on finishing my last season, but I moved up in March, exactly one month before my 22nd birthday.. Since I turned 19 I was very uncomfortable bowling against little kids. It really hit me hard when I moved to North Carolina and joined a league and tournament circuit where I was constantly bowling with kids who were 12-13 years old.. The whole mentor/teacher thing got old by the time I was 20-21.. And shortly after I qualified for Jr. Gold that year, I called it quits and gave my spot away so a kid who had the "passion" and needed to go for the experience would be able to..
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Yeah, I feel the same way as the people you talked to in that I feel I can compete with adults right now but I know I'll have the rest of my life to bowl adult and thought I had one more year to really enjoy bowling juniors.
It might be a moot for me though because the jbt isn't sanctioned with usbc anyway so the age limit for that might not change. I just don't like the fact that usbc seems to have made the change without really giving any reason so far.
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I bowled in juniors till I was 22, and did I think it was a little too old, yes, but I didn't care. Like previously stated, I know I have my whole life to bowl adult, so why should I be in a hurry to get there? Also (FIG-alert), I knew that I could rack in some good scholarship money if I stayed for my full tenure, in which I did, and am still using that money today. I think 21 seems more logical of an age to cut it off than at 20. I do feel bad for those few that this new rule generally affects immediately though. I think those that are 19, 20, 21 should be grandfathered in and still be able to decide whether they want to stay and let this rule only affect the currect 18 year old's and younger.
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B-Car
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I'm 20, and I use my scholarship money along with my 35 hours of work a week to help pay for my college education. The fact that I just lost a year to lower my college expenses disappoints me. I just turned 20 in January. My big question is can I finish out this season with the tournaments? Or do I have to move up by a set date?
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"So there I was... BALLS DEEP!!!"
My Arsenal:
Storm Ace
Roto-Grip RSX
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Rival
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Stupid Seven Pin,
You are fine for the rest of the season. The rule doesn't go into effect until next season starts.
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I always thought a youth could only bowl youth events, except for rule 4oo that is for an adult singles tournament once in a while. We have a couple of youth bowlers who bowl youth leagues, youth travel leagues, youth tournaments, have their gold spots for this year and are full members of an adult scratch league. I've been told that as long as they are college they can bowl both as long as they are youth bowlers by age, not so? bowl.com has them listed on both their youth and adult leagues for this year under their names.
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You are correct. Under Rule 400, a youth may bowl an adult tournament if it is singles only AND the tournament director allows it. A sanctioned youth bowler no matter what age cannot bowl in a sanctioned adult league. A sanctioned adult bowler of "youth age" may bowl in youth tournaments if the rules allow it. This is currently done in the PJBT's. I suspect that based upon Brian Graham's responses around the age change that you will see other youth tours like the JBT's change their rules to allow youth bowlers under 22 bowl next year even if they are adult sanctioned. The JBT's are not sanctioned since they do not bank with SMART.
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Well, I called usbc and it turns out I was wrong and these 2 kids are right. I was passed to 3 different people, got 2 I think its ok and the last person said as long as they are in college they can bowl as youth and adult. Still cant find the rule for this in the online rule book but if usbc says its ok, I guess its ok but I just dont think it makes any sense.
Edited on 4/15/2009 9:44 AM
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quote:
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There is an issue here that no one is bringing up. What do the NCAA woman do? They can't go adult because of eligibility and they can't bowl youth because they are too old. So what? Just not bowl for a few years? That will really help the sport on the collegiate level...
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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it
The Cell Pimp
+1
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The Moose is Loose
they quit the NCAA and just have a club team. there are much better female bowlers that are on school teams that are club and not NCAA. they need to make womens completely NCAA or completely intercollegiate. the intercolegiate teams are much better.
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
arsenal: sauce rival arch rival dead flush blue vibe scout jazz SR300 plastic
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
p.s. go leftys
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Boycott USBC if you have a spot for junior gold and are being forced out do not give your spot away but do not go. I just had 2 years of money wiped out for paying for college now you think im going to go to LORD MESSIAH OBAMA for a student LOAN HAHAHAHAHAHA o well i guess it is going to be weed and killin feds lol
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Kiall Hill
Visionary test staff
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Heres one thing I never understand.
You complain that because you are no longer allowed to bowl youth, so you no longer have the opportunity to earn scholarship money to pay for college.
The last time I checked the money you can win bowling as an adult pays tuition just as well as scholarship money does. Whats to stop you from winning a couple hundred in brackets on league night and putting that towards your education?
At least be logical in your arguments
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ok just to clarify the rule. i didnt see it updates on bowl.com.
here is my situation:
i am 19. i turn 20 on 2/3/2010. can i bowl youth this coming fall season (09-10)?
my understanding of the rule because i have heard a few different things, is that i am allowed to bowl since i am 19 as of august 1stbut you are not allowed to bowl if you are 20 as of august 1st.
i have also heard i am not allowed to bowl because i am 19 as of august 1st.
can someone give me a definitive answer please?
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
p.s. go leftys
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This is from the Youth Page of Bowl.Com. What you will find is that in order not to lose entries many of the junior tournaments will be changing their rules to continue to allow youth under 21 to bowl even if they have already gone adult. They are allowed to do this within the rules and I hvae already seen this with organizations that bank with Smart and those that don't.
Maximum age
Starting with the 2009-10 league season, USBC Youth membership will be available to bowlers who have not reached their 20th birthday on or before Aug. 1 of the current bowling season.
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quote:
This is from the Youth Page of Bowl.Com. What you will find is that in order not to lose entries many of the junior tournaments will be changing their rules to continue to allow youth under 21 to bowl even if they have already gone adult. They are allowed to do this within the rules and I hvae already seen this with organizations that bank with Smart and those that don't.
Maximum age
Starting with the 2009-10 league season, USBC Youth membership will be available to bowlers who have not reached their 20th birthday on or before Aug. 1 of the current bowling season.
First off, don't refer to them as youth when they have already gone adult, whether its by choice or not.
And secondly, JBT has already announced that this is what their plans are for next year. Big headline at their website at www.jbtbowling.com that their age eligibility rules will not change, with more information to come later.
This means me, as somebody who turned adult last summer gets to bowl any JBTs in LI or at Super Match Game at Carolier. Stupid if you ask me, but Ill probably take advantage of it, although very rarely.
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need to change it to 18 or 19 in my opinion im turning 20 in 2 weeks but i been bowling adults this year i mean really, i wish they would change the dart age for leagues to 20 or 19 but the bars and stuff but really when i bowled jbts there were a few kids that had 4 kids and full grown beard i mean really? 21 glad they changed it but needs to go lower another year.
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Sandbagging since 1989
THB LEFTY
210
Quantum Le
MaXXX Zone
rattler(nib)
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First off, I must say that I am currently not a youth bowler, however I once was and this debate came up back in 1993 when I turned 18. A friend of mine chose to stay in youth bowling until he was 21 and he used the same argument that it was for scholarship money. The flaw in that argument is that you can move up to adult leagues, and tournaments, win money and put that money away to be used for college. Cash pay for college just as well as scholarship money. Just my .02.
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Jeff Hemer is one of strongest advocates for Junior Bowling, check out jbtsw.com for the best scholarship tour in the country hands down. Oh and by the way its 21 and under until hell freezes over.
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Interesting.....the MEN's leagues I bowl in it's the 20-25 year olds getting drunk and bit**ing about the shot, while the more experienced men casually take your money....
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i started adult league tonight freakin drunks one guy whiffs a 10 throws his shoe at me. Wtf is that i understand frustration but buddy calm down go for a walk relax something. GOsh some adults act like little kids. Idiots rawr angry /rantoff
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Reaching age 20 is no longer an a junior because as reaching that age your already a young adult category.
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This is a pretty good point, I know several guys in college who just bowl tournaments and sweepers and do brackets at league for supplemental income, they don't have to have a regular job. They make a hell of a lot more doing that than they make off scholarship money.
Heres one thing I never understand.
You complain that because you are no longer allowed to bowl youth, so you no longer have the opportunity to earn scholarship money to pay for college.
The last time I checked the money you can win bowling as an adult pays tuition just as well as scholarship money does. Whats to stop you from winning a couple hundred in brackets on league night and putting that towards your education?
At least be logical in your arguments