Post by: jbtsouthwest on December 13, 2005, 07:33:25 AM
The 2005 Storm Las Vegas Main Event begins December 26 at Texas Statiuon, Las Vegas NV.
If you still haven't entered, there is still time. You can mail your entry by December 17, and walk-in spots are available as space permits (mornings, likely).
First place is guaranteed at $3000 in scratch, $2000 in handicap, and $1500 in girls scratch. In addition, we guarantee that 24 spots in scratch, 18 in handicap, and 10 in girls scratch will receive at least $100, so it's not too top-heavy a prize fund. I don't know any other event that guarantees these prizes, especially on a $80 entry fee (I know its not cheap to get and stay there, too). Sorry if I'm wrong about that.
All the info you need to know, and a complete entry list, is at www.jbtsw.com.
We hope to see you there.
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: jonbowler298 on December 13, 2005, 07:21:37 PM
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Kegel training center is the way to go....
Post by: Silencer on December 14, 2005, 02:11:11 AM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: jbtsouthwest on December 14, 2005, 02:36:06 PM
You can still view all the scores from last season on the Main Event section of www.jbtsw.com.
While it's true we don't pre-announce the exact shot, we strive for a midddle to lower-middle scoring condition that rewards good shots. We don't want it as hard as sport (and, as it was correctly pointed out, really can't with handicap), and don't want it anywhere near as easy as house.
We were very happy with last year's scoring pace, hint hint.
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: jonbowler298 on December 19, 2005, 07:48:59 PM
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Kegel training center is the way to go....
Post by: Platinum Bowler on December 20, 2005, 09:19:43 PM
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Farewell Tour 05'-06' "No Mercy"
B-Car
Post by: Dean Richards on December 20, 2005, 09:47:14 PM
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Dean Richards
NW Bowler Forum
go to: www.somoff.com/forums
Post by: SDJrCranKer on December 23, 2005, 06:13:38 PM
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BERMAN " ON CLOUD 12" SAE-AEE
BSK all day everyday!
IF YOU DON'T LOFT THE BALL YOUR NOT A TRUE BOWLER
Post by: Platinum Bowler on December 25, 2005, 10:02:15 PM
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Farewell Tour 05'-06' "No Mercy"
B-Car
Post by: jonbowler298 on December 25, 2005, 10:17:17 PM
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Kegel training center is the way to go....
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on December 28, 2005, 01:49:02 AM
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-Jeremy Vitug
Post by: spinitmopper on December 28, 2005, 06:39:17 PM
Post by: jonbowler298 on December 28, 2005, 10:35:15 PM
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Kegel training center is the way to go....
Post by: spinitmopper on December 29, 2005, 01:36:34 PM
Post by: ShermDawg on December 29, 2005, 04:56:51 PM
oh and es the 4-6 was a heartbreaker but danielle handed it to her by wiffing a 4 pin and she just gave it back... happened in the boys title match too... nathan wiffed a 3-6 i believe in the 8th frame and then koff wiffed a 10 in the tenth to give ti back to nathan... it was crazy stuff
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: BowlingJew015 on December 29, 2005, 05:06:22 PM
Oh....and congrats to Nathan and Ellie for their awesome bowling....and everyone else who bowled well.....
And to me for only going -40, im so proud
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Jeff "Jew" Spiesman
"If practice makes perfect, and no one is perfect.....then why practice?
Edited on 12/29/2005 5:55 PM
Post by: Silencer on December 29, 2005, 05:13:48 PM
anyways congrats to nathan and ellie, buth tore it up and bryanna bowled great as well but I don't think you can consider it heartbreaking for the 4 6...she had gone high on that lane almost every shot and was kind of lost all that game and the game before...Ellie flagged the spare but she also had 4 or 5 pocket 9 counts that game, but anyways great bowling to everyone...I went plus 89 in qualy but then thanks to my hand being destroyed I could barely hold my ball in mp and that resulted in very bad results, lol
SEND IT!
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: ustilldontwantnone on December 29, 2005, 07:13:26 PM
What a stud that Nathan kid is turning into
Post by: recognize_talent on December 30, 2005, 01:37:17 AM
as for wipeout. never bowl this unless you get in on one of the morning squads. its a house shot but after that you get no oil and the lanes are s-h-i you know the rest. by the 2 o clock squad all you had to do was lay the ball down and watch it pick the oil right off the lane. you could see the line drawn as the ball rolled it. never have i seen a house go to s-h-i, the rest, like this. very poor and very disappointed by it.
now lets talk about bryanna. whats her status anyone know?
--------------------
"Strikes show them you know the game. Spares show them you can play the game."
When you bowl a 300, then you have a little sense of what it is like to be Jesus Christ.
A wise man knows when he is beat, it's time you RECOGNIZE Talent!!!
Post by: Platinum Bowler on December 30, 2005, 01:26:58 PM
Congratulations to Nathan and Ellie and sorry, but whoever it was who won the Handicap Div. on winning. And yeah, that Nathan P is an aight bowler...hahaha, its so scary that hes so young... See you all around, and congrats to everyone who placed, cashed, or just did well in their own terms, cause I know I wasnt one of them...
--------------------
Farewell Tour 05'-06' "No Mercy"
B-Car
Post by: jbtsouthwest on December 30, 2005, 04:19:22 PM
I'll start a new topic as soon as I get through the paperwork and get something on the website, but just a quick note to thank each and every one of you who participated, helped, and were otherwise involved in an incredibly successful and exciting event. Over 800 bowlers shared in approximately $37,000 in scholarships. Nathan Panaligan, N. Las Vegas NV, took home the scratch division $3,500 top prize, Danielle Schilling, Littelrock CA captured Girls Scratch for $1,500, and Micah Kamiyama, Honolulu HI won handicap's $2,000 top prize.
Total complete results on the website soon- I hope it was remotely as fun for you to bowl in as it was for us to run it.
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: Dean Richards on December 30, 2005, 06:24:12 PM
2 andrew koff (14 yrs old)
3 toby sambrano
4 Michael K
5 me
6 another 14 year old
7 ?
8 OG
--------------------
Dean Richards
NW Bowler Forum
go to: www.somoff.com/forums
Post by: recognize_talent on December 30, 2005, 07:10:50 PM
i didnt talk it up at least i dont remember it that way.
in my terms i did okay, but should have done better. went minus -180 i just bombed my last two games, so i got up at 6 in the mornin to go at it again, opened up three cuts in my the crease of my middle finger, but managed a painful - 80. so it is what it is, but i still say the shoot was not hard just demanding.
--------------------
"Strikes show them you know the game. Spares show them you can play the game."
When you bowl a 300, then you have a little sense of what it is like to be Jesus Christ.
A wise man knows when he is beat, it's time you RECOGNIZE Talent!!!
Post by: Squeaks on December 31, 2005, 02:04:14 AM
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1337
Post by: Silencer on December 31, 2005, 03:12:44 AM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: A340-600 on January 02, 2006, 12:48:21 AM
then i went -201 for the last chance squad
oh well better luck next year
Post by: ShermDawg on January 02, 2006, 02:00:06 PM
honestly if you were playing the lanes wrong you were toast from the get go, but once you figured em out you just had to get transition down and grind a couple of games other than that your shot was there all day
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: recognize_talent on January 03, 2006, 02:10:27 AM
--------------------
"Strikes show them you know the game. Spares show them you can play the game."
When you bowl a 300, then you have a little sense of what it is like to be Jesus Christ.
A wise man knows when he is beat, it's time you RECOGNIZE Talent!!!
Post by: jrbowler on January 03, 2006, 11:10:56 AM
I saw where many re-entered and made the cut. At least 15-20 re-entries made the cut. The first timers passing me didn't bother me as much as the re-entries. Some bowled 4 times to make the cut. It was expensive enough. I was in the cut as of Tuesday 1pm. After that squad was through, I dropped way past the cut. I didn't have $60 and I didn't want to bowl 8 more games at 6am, and if I made the cut bowl 6 more.
I'll have to reconsider bowling this tournament again if there are unlimited re-entries. The Wipe-Out is the same thing. I wouldn't mind the 4 re-entries on the last day. The other 60 are locked in. Just my opinion. I know the ones that made the cut by re-entering will disagree with me.
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 03, 2006, 01:29:36 PM
There's definitely two sides to the re-entry argument.
Re-entering bowlers did, in general, score much better on their re-entry.
That said, we had (not including last chance) about 120 re-entries, which adds $4,800 to the prize fund. That's a significant amount of money.
Would you as a bowler prefer no re-entries and less prize fund or re-entries and the prize fund we did have? Evertybody answer this so we can get some opinions!
We'll also have that as one of the poll questions sent to every bowler.
Of course, if we continue to grow at the same rate (with your help), we will sell out on first-timers and eliminate that problem altogether, which would be the best of both worlds, so let's hope for that.
Type away everyone!
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: ShermDawg on January 03, 2006, 06:41:08 PM
or maybe instead of making re entries less money... make them more so people have to pay more if they want to bowl that badly... i dunno... i think the tourney is fine but some minor changes might make some people happy and others discontent...
i think the best idea is to bowl and have the last chance tourney and no re entry... and make the cost of the last chance squad more to bowl... to add more scholarship and have it be for the people that really think they have a shot at making it and will spend the money to give it a shot... i dont think it should be cheaper... make it like a penalty for bowling again by paying more.... i dunno just random ideas like em or dont .... doesnt bother me
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: Silencer on January 03, 2006, 07:42:08 PM
But no doubt re-entering gives you an advantage, you know how the lanes change...I re-entered, and i did a ton better, but I kind of hurt myself because I bowled so much trying to make cut, my hand was done in cut, but anyways it was a fun tournament with a great shot, deffinately higher scores this year
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: Platinum Bowler on January 03, 2006, 08:11:57 PM
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Farewell Tour 05'-06' "No Mercy"
B-Car
Post by: Dean Richards on January 03, 2006, 09:13:49 PM
--------------------
Dean Richards
NW Bowler Forum
go to: www.somoff.com/forums
Post by: Silencer on January 03, 2006, 09:28:23 PM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: Silencer on January 03, 2006, 09:50:22 PM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Edited on 1/3/2006 10:42 PM
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on January 03, 2006, 10:14:05 PM
If you want to go with a re-entry system, the tournament might want to go to a qualifying format that is more similar to the megabuck tournaments like High Roller and the Mini. What do I mean? Make the qualifying rounds shorter, but keep the costs proprotionate across the board.
This, however, puts the tournament director and tournament at risk because the tournament may not get as many re-entries as anticipated. However, in my opinion, for a tournament that has a qualifying round with re-entries allowed, 8 games is a bit much (and is not cost/time effective) and lowering the amount of games during qualifying while keeping the costs proportionate around the board could generate the same, if not more, money flowing in and out of the tournament, and at the same time it allows more players to be able to re-enter into the tournament because of the fact that more squads will be made available to those who wanted to re-enter.
I am probably just throwing more gas into the fire, but its just an opinion here and throwing it out...
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-Jeremy Vitug
Post by: jonbowler298 on January 03, 2006, 10:15:21 PM
thank you, jeff
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Kegel training center is the way to go....
Post by: Silencer on January 04, 2006, 01:34:33 AM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 02:14:41 AM
your words are totally un-necessary honestly... because the fact is we used the re-entry to our advantage thats all.. so we didnt hit it the first 8 games... there could be a million different factors going on that could have caused that... no one is saying it was hard or easy but just cuz we can score doesnt mean were gonna walk out and whack it every time.. im glad you have so much confidence in me thats great.. make some cheering signs and come on down to teh next tourney that would be fun... all you can do is go out there and bowl and have a good time, and in the case of the tournament why give it your all when you can try again... that is why i think the tournament should go to bowl a squad and if you dont make cut you can have a chance at entering the last chance... because walking into a tournament i know i can re enter does just what i said.. makes me not care as much at all knowing i can see how the lanes are and bowl again to bowl a lot better...
anyways all this talk has finally gotten me tired again so i think im gonna get to bed... hope everyone enjoys this late night reading... especially you MR. TRUTH SCARY MAN... dont forget to be tucked in and dont let those bed bugs bite ;-)
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 02:20:06 AM
whats with calling everyone an idiot.. thats not only rude but makes you look like a jerk as well.. no need for that at all... and contradict myself.. i do it all the time thank you :-D and honestly dont care if i do...
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 02:23:05 AM
TheRealTruth
i like all your colorful writing to.. its very cute ;-)
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 02:25:25 AM
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: Silencer on January 04, 2006, 02:30:43 AM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 02:32:16 AM
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: recognize_talent on January 04, 2006, 02:36:36 AM
thats an inside joke for jeff he'll no who i am, the rest of you dont need to know. but thanks Jeff for all the help youve been for me during main event, looking forward to bowling some jbt in cal, but you gotta get a whole lot more of them set up thins year in so cal like. there are 14 events to our 7 in the other conferences, that aint right.
now on to business. i cant say that re-entries are not fair or that they are, i didnt know that so many people had been knocked out by someone who had reentered, that part is surely not fair. i do like tkhe idea of having a limit on the reentries. but then agian im with the prize fund growing as the tourny plays out. i do know that whatever your last set of scoring is then that should be the one that determines your place. so now a reentry becomes a risk, not practice, like mr koff did. this will help ensure that those who do reenter are reentering with the intention of bowling for the cut.
and real truth....shut it. they bowled multiple sqauds and lost multiple money, whats the problem?
--------------------
"Strikes show them you know the game. Spares show them you can play the game."
When you bowl a 300, then you have a little sense of what it is like to be Jesus Christ.
A wise man knows when he is beat, it's time you RECOGNIZE Talent!!!
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 04, 2006, 08:49:59 AM
WOW, I had no idea this was causing this much of a stir, we heard little to nothing about all this during the event! I actually think it didn't cause much of a stir, but happens to be a topic close to the hearts of many of the 'regulars' on this website...
First of all, there's no place at all for personal attacks. Strong opinions are fine- name-calling is not acceptable.
Now, anyway, some random thoughts...
Again, there's two definite sides. Limiting bowles to one re-entry sounds decent to me. Very few bowlers had time (or room) for more than one re-entry anyway, and most of those bowlers actually DIDN'T improve enough to make the cut (I'll have to investigate that more closely later). So, the tournament wouldn't have been that different if one re-enry was the max.
If there were no re-entries, again, subtract $4,800 from the prize fund, mostly from scratch- so you're talking more like $3,000 for first place, and proportionally less on down. I would have thought prize fund was the #1 most improtant thing...
Cayson, on your squad leader bonus thing, the squad leaders are almost always in the top few anyway, so I don't really see that as a big deal at all. Squad leaders this year qualified #1,2,3,5, and 6, so guaranteeing them a spot seems redundant to me...
ANother thing we did think of is one thing Jared pointed out, that people who re-enter, especially last chance, would get so tired that the benefit from getting a second chance would be cancelled out by fatigue. That certainly appeared to be true for Jared, I don't know for how many other 'marathon' bowlers.
Here's the thing on raising the re-entry fee: I would hate for it to be seen as a big money-grab (even if it is in reality all prize fund). Upping last chance, for example, to $100 or more, for so few spots, will leave an awful lot of people with a bad taste in their mouths, and stuff like that is concerning to a tournament director...
See, putting any sort of limitation on things always opens up a new can of worms that you don't see coming beforehand. That's why we left it at just re-enter as much as you like. All of your ideas so far are very good, but every single one of them makes me go "but what if..."... In the end, 64 outstanding bowlers got into the semifinals, which should be the point of 'fair'.
As an aside, I don't think what we had this year was incredibly 'unfair'... You all were well aware of the re-entry format, so as a bowler I would have made sure to bowl my first squad the first squad possible, and re-enter at least once, especially knowing it would be a harder shot, Given the money you spent to be there, I think everyone could have come up with an extra $60 more, borrowed it from a friend, heck, borrowed it from me!
Specifically to Jon and the other younger ones, if this was an adult tournament the prize fund and entry structure would be WAYYYY different. I think you look at things differently (which is perfectly fine) because you've never known a time when scholarships WEREN'T a part of junior bowling. They only go back to the late 80s (YOU only go back to the early 90s, dang you!!!) If you look at junior bowling in terms of making money as in a business, it will always disappoint you... try not to do that too much! But I've had the whole financial discussion elsewhere of why I feel it's sooo very worth it, feel free to email me for it...
I don't want people to read these boards and think there were fights on-site over re-entries, that was certainly not the case.
OK... let's say the format was: $100 entry fee, no re-entries, $80 last chance. Last chance squad we could take 180 bowlers. This would allow a similar prize fund to this year, since the entry fee increase would offset the lack of re-entrants. Questions: 1) how many make it from last chance? 2) Do Last chance bowlers keep their new scores or old? 2) If they keep their new, won't it be seen as unfair if they do way better with the new ones because they're the only ones who got that second chance? 3) if they keep their old no matter what, what's the point of bowling it? 4) what do we tell bowlers we can't fit on that squad?
Let's say the format was only one re-entry max. Then, the big question is, do you have to take the re-entry score, even if it was lower? We asked this question for regular season re-entry events a few years ago, and it met with a resounding NO-- waay too much like gambling, and no reward for your 'good' score, etc... So, I don't think I could be convinced to do that.
What if all the re-entries were in one squad only? Well, fine, but what if that one squad kills them? That was sorta the case already in teh E squad this year, which was at least 50% re-entries.
SO... while typing all this, the "FAIREST" solution is simply this: NO re-entries, NO last chance. But then, is it less FUN??? Is what you'd be doing to squeeze out that last drop of 'fair' worth it for taking away part of teh fun of the tournament for many bowlers? Part of what makes it the "MAIN" event is that many fols are there for 3 days straight... If it's four hours and done, no need to stick around... hmmm...
I also implore you to remember that most of you here typing are some of our more successful bowlers, who often feel that re-entries hurt them by giving 'lesser' bowlers more chances. Which, in the short run, may be the case. But it's these 'lesser' bowlers entering 3,4,5 times that really bulk up a prize fund, and the fact that there IS re-entries is specifically what encourages them to bowl in the first place, because they're still learning and need second chances. These 'lesser' bowlers, mind you, often quickly become the next batch of superstars, so discouraging them to bowl makes no sense.
What I've tried to do above is show you the hundreds of different angles from which this one question can be approached, all of which have to be considered when you're running the thing. Whatever seems obvious to yuo might never have been thought of by someone else, and vice versa. And this is just one question of hundreds when conducting a national tournament. Ugh!!!
Again, if we grow at the same rate as we did this year, we'll have approximately 700 first time entries next year, which will almost completely eliminate room for re-entries anyway (we have room for 780 as it stands now). I think if you all do a good job spreading the word, we can easily fill that field. So, let me turn the tables and already beg the people who are most against re-entries to become our biggest recruiters, get to teh 780 mark, and prevent the re-entries altogether!
By the way, 780 entries at $100 each would mean one hell of a prize fund... git R done!!!!!
I realize that the point of all of this is to find a balance between the most "fair" and most "fun" tournament of all. Of course, everyone has a different idea of what fair and fun exactly is. In my mind, the 8 people that made the finals were the 8 best bowlers of the week, without a doubt. Isn't that 'fair'? The spots we're debating the 'fairness' of are the last few people in and the last few people out (in general), which always causes a big blowup in every sport (BCS anyone)...
Just some random thoughts, thanks to everyone for their input so far, keep it coming!
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: jrbowler on January 04, 2006, 10:59:50 AM
If you are getting that many new entries, I would just eliminate re-entries all together.
I don't know how familiar you are with the Tournament before yours'. The Las Vegas Junior Invitational. I believe their last entry was over $100. The cut ratio was 1:6 or 1:8 (not sure). So if they had 700 bowlers, they had either 117 or 88 bowlers making the cut into 6 more regular games. They would take 10 bowlers into their modified stepladder. 10-9-8-7 winner playing 6-5-4, that winner playing 3 then 2 then the top seed. They didn't have matchplay. Prize fund was $5000 for 1st and $500 for 10th. 14 & under boy's top prize was $1500, 14 & under girls was $1000. I don't remember what the Girls Scratch prize fund was.
Squads were: Total of 4 squad times. 3 squads of all scratch boys. 1 squad of Girls Scratch. 1 squad of 14 & under girls. 1 squads of 14 & under boys. The bowling center had all the 14 & under boys & girls and girls scratch bowling at the same time.
The bad thing I didn't like about their tournament was their deadline. They did not bend at all. You could not walk in and bowl. I knew many that thought they could do that. I believe they turned away 25 entries the last year I bowled it.
Jeff-
I like matchplay. I don't like re-entries. I'd pay $120 for the original entry. Since you have a set number(64), maybe you should go to a higher cut number before you cut to the finals. That might help more people making the cut.
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 01:45:33 PM
i think a cool idea for the format possibly... would be to instead of going straight to matchplay from qualifying, maybe have semi's inbetween and then go to a bracket with best 2 of 3 game matches.... maybe cut to top 16 and go from there... just more ideas...
but the main thing is the re entry and i think that a lot of people dont mind the re entry and there are a good hand full that dont like it... if that many people didnt like it why would there have been so many re entries....
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: jrbowler on January 04, 2006, 02:37:36 PM
If there are re-entries allowed then there will be re-entries bowled. No one wants to not make the cut in a tournament. With 600 bowlers and 64 spots, there will be 536 not making the cut. There were bowlers that were assured they made the cut. I heard one guy say, "I'm plus. 60th place is minus quite a bit. I'm not going to waste my money. I'm in." Well, he didn't make the cut and the cut ended being plus 35. Others re-bowled because they felt they would get bumped out.
I can see re-entries like in the Wipeout. You bowl your 8 games to try and beat the board. No playoffs or match play.
I wouldn't mind re-entries if there was a ratio of entries to spots. Not an exact number (60) everyone in which everyone wanting to re-enter is lining up at Tuesday 6am not wanting to get shut out. Jeff did this weird number drawing, instead of drawing names.
Post by: jrbowler on January 04, 2006, 02:45:56 PM
Post by: calibowler on January 04, 2006, 03:42:00 PM
thats my beef LOL...
anyways... it was my last year...
--------------------
Karen Rosprim
CSU Fresno
"If you want some, come get some..."
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 04, 2006, 03:46:27 PM
Jrbowlr-
Being knocked down 15 spots isn't that unusual, even with the re-entry talk going on. About 30% of the field bowled that squad (the largest squad by far at 171 entries), and 1/5th the semi field of 60 is 12, so theoretically you should have been knocked down 12 spots. So that's not mathematically unusual to be knocked out 15 spots or so. I think Steven Black fell close to 20 spots, so it definitely was teh highest scoring squad, most likely due again to teh re-entering bowlers figuring out the pattern sooner.
I wouldn't blame you at all for not bowling last chance, they are indeed very long odds. That's why I'm wary of charging even more for it and expanding the field, even if we add a few more spots. Sure, it works out great if you happen to win the spots, but its a lot of broken hearts if not.
Mason, I don't mind people bringing up maturely written criticsims on here- heck, I encouraged it! That said, everyone please feel free to email me as well to get into more detail. I like people to understand WHY we make the decisions we make, even if they don't personally agree with them.
The old Invitational was good, but so was the old PBA as well, and it's gone too, hehe....
What I really don't like about the Invitational was their payout. $5000 for first is awesome, but paying 10 spots for 700+ bowlers is not something I agree with. That's 1 out of 70 cashing. I didn't even know that was legal! On 700 entries we'd pay a minimum of 70 spots. Format wise they were fine, but I believe that format wise (the basics) we're just fine as well.
I also didn't care for specific divisions at specific times. That's way too inflexible, and I think they just did that so it was easier for them. We like to be as bowler-friendly and flexible as possible.
On our entry counts for semifinals, those are adjusted each year based on an appropriate ratio of entries per division. Clearly that number will go up in Open Scratch next year.
We tried to look very closely at the old Invitational, learn from what they did both right and wrong, and create an even better event for you to bowl in now. We will continue to build on our progress in year three and beyond. Anyone who knows our regular JBT SW events knows we are constantly evolving, as any event should be.
Anyway, it was perfectly legitimate of you to bring it up, lol. :-)
TheRealTruth and Mason, dudes, relax. Take it to another thread please. Mature comments about the topic are more than welcome from both of you. If not, that's cool, but I'll stop posting on this thread.
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 03:49:21 PM
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 04, 2006, 03:57:29 PM
...but wait, there's more!
Jr Bowlr, I'm gonna get burned out after 20 years?!? Give me 50 at least dude, lol!!!
... I missed your last post. We will always have qualifying then matchplay. I wish we had time for more matchplay (and more bowling in general for that amtter). That's what makes the Main Event the "Main" Event, and teh other events the side stuff.
... The re-entry system of taking random numbers was to prevent people from feeling it was necessary to be on line at 2 AM to guarantee a last chance spot, which nobody would want, and to ensure nobody cutting in line or holding spots, which was a big problem last year.
... Here's an out-of-the-box idea, work with me here. Ok, no re-entries (except maybe last chance). But if you want to bowl again to stay loose or to play in brackets or whatever, do it, but your scores will not count for main event, only your first entry will. Instead, half of the prize fund for the re-entry goes to a separate 'second chance tournament' prize list. So, people that are there to bowl non-stop can get their kicks, while not affecting the outcome of teh Main portion of teh tournament (even though you're adding to teh prize fund)!!!
OOO... I like that one sorta... let me know about that!!!
Thanks,
Jeff
... PS as much as I appreciate all the feedback, I think the re-entry talk is getting way too much press for a pretty small problem.... other feedback?
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 04:00:35 PM
there a lot of different ideas to toy with
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 04, 2006, 04:04:00 PM
...completely a time thing on that one, Mason. We'd love to do that, but there's simply not enough time to lay it out that way. Dang.
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: ShermDawg on January 04, 2006, 04:06:51 PM
have the first squad of the tourney be on christmas night like the first squad of wipeout is.... have the last chance squad on the 28th after themorning squad and start matchplay earlier than 930 or something... possibility who knows... i just think thatd be a great idea because matchplay would become way more competitive being truly head to head
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"2 Hours Sleep + A Couple Beers = Good Bowling"
Sherman
Post by: Silencer on January 04, 2006, 04:10:10 PM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: Silencer on January 04, 2006, 04:27:42 PM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 04, 2006, 04:48:30 PM
Thanks for all the input, we need more good discussions.
At this VERY EARLY point, I like the idea best of having only your first squad count, but you can re-enter for brackets and a seperate 'second chance' sidepot as much as you want. That might be the best of both worlds.
Hopefully all of you can help spread the word and get more entries so we sell out and this isn't even an issue.
On the one-on-a-pair thing, I'm totally with you guys, but it's just not practical. There's 64 semifinalists this year, and it's a 60 lane center. Oh yeah, two other divisions also. And a limited anmount of time. Wish we had more time and room, but it's not happening. 4 on a pair thru the house is only 120 semifinalists, we had 126 semifinalists this year and would like to go up next year. I don't see running semis at 2-3 different times as practical because which squad waits for 3 hours on the last day of the event for the stepladders, with planes to catch and cars to drive? See, there's always something dangit!!!.....
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: Platinum Bowler on January 04, 2006, 07:04:39 PM
quote:Well in that case Jeff, can you put me in the next JBT or three??? Hahaha...
I think everyone could have come up with an extra $60 more, borrowed it from a friend, heck, borrowed it from me!
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Farewell Tour 05'-06' "No Mercy"
B-Car
Post by: recognize_talent on January 05, 2006, 01:25:04 AM
can i get a hundred and 20 for the las vegas open?
at least 80?
think it over.
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"Strikes show them you know the game. Spares show them you can play the game."
When you bowl a 300, then you have a little sense of what it is like to be Jesus Christ.
A wise man knows when he is beat, it's time you RECOGNIZE Talent!!!
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 05, 2006, 11:04:44 AM
"borrow", not "invest", heehee! :-)
Moving from Texas is not an option, they are great hosts, and certainly not worth it for 10 more lanes. Nobody would do a better job than them, or be more flexible and gracious.
We have all day Wednesday (or the last day) to work with if we want, but that is the travel day for many, so nobody will want to be waiting around. So, again, as much as I'd like fewer on a pair, it isn't likely.
Whatever the last chance squad is or becomes, we could move that to late the second day, creating more time on the last day. But what you guys don't see is that after the bowling was done day two, we spend hours working on numbers in the office- I was there till after midnight (that matchplay doesn't just come from out of the blue!). There are far more logistics behind the scenes than you could possibly recognize, being bowlers not directors.
There are things that, as a high average bowler, would be ideal as far as bowling in a tournament (2 on a pair, etc.), that have to be sacrificed because you're bowling in a 700 person tournament, that we hope will be at least a 1,000 person tournament soon.
Remember, this is a tournament that by everyone's account has gone extremely, extremely well. We're looking for little tweaks here- no point in masssively overhauling a very good thing.
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: flipback11 on January 06, 2006, 03:13:24 PM
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Yeah... I'm a lefty...
Post by: Dean Richards on January 06, 2006, 06:49:42 PM
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Dean Richards
NW Bowler Forum
go to: www.somoff.com/forums
Post by: jbtsouthwest on January 09, 2006, 09:29:05 AM
wait a minute wait a minute.... :-)
By my rough count, there were only 12 bowlers who re-eneterd more than once (not counting last chance, which was a separate cut and I don't think anyone minds). Of those 12, only 6 were semifinalists, and some (Montieth, etc.) clearly made the cut on the first squad and were re-entering for brackets, to stay loose, etc.
So.... if, as many of you are now saying, you'd like it limited it to one re-entry.... it basically ALREADY WAS one re-entry!!!
So, if we put in the rules one re-entry (+ last chance squad) max, will that be good? I know some people will still love it and some people will still hate it, but in a tournament this big I'm not gonna please everyone (no matter how much I'd like to). I'd hate to have the prize fund hit of no re-entries at
all, although I also agree that you should be able to 'put up' in your first squad, I truly do understand both sides of the issue.
Also, we are going to try and add a side tournament of our own to have something more to bowl... possibly a doubles event... but we'll see :-) Remember, we also already have our regular event in Kingman the day after the Main Event for those who can travel a bit. It was a lot of fun, you can see the results on our website.
Thanks,
Jeff
Post by: jrbowler on January 10, 2006, 01:38:22 PM
How many re-entered one time and made the cut? If you want re-entries so bad, just increase the last chance from 4 bowlers to 10 or 12. I'd agree to that more than a second entry bumping me out of the cut. I have to work for my money and I know there are plenty others too. My parents don't pay for anything. I almost didn't come this year because of money. There are plenty of good bowlers that will always bowl better when they have a second chance. I can't afford to.