win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Update on Mush are Gold  (Read 13940 times)

Joe Jr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2776
Update on Mush are Gold
« on: July 10, 2006, 07:43:51 AM »
Not sure anyone cares but Jeff Mop is giving updates.

Update1:
quote:

If you want to read an ACTUAL report, I'm sitting here at Boca Bowl where Mushtare is actually bowling his first round (no, he didn't prebowl). His first game started off with a strike, then he went Big 4, missed them all (one of the corners was out, so it was 7-), then he flagged the headpin left leaving the 1-3-6 and chopped the headpin clean off. At this point, he had 32 in the third. He did make a nice comeback, though, going triple, then spare strike spare strike the rest of the game for 191.

I didn't see most of the second game, but I did see a runaway brooklyn where he left a 5-pin. He also finished the game X 7/ S8- XXX for 200 on the dot. He is now -9 after 2.

The pattern in this center is a 35 foot pattern. The breakpoint is out near 5, so bowlers are either playing up the gutter or freewheeling it. Mushtare is freewheeling it, but the lanes will start carrying down soon, so he will get some push in the middle, but it might come at the expense of bringing the ball back from the outsides. We'll see what happens.


The kid actually doesn't throw the ball half bad. He definitely throws it better than on that video clip from the news report we all saw. Still, he grabs and hits up on the ball a TON. His accuracy needs lots of work as well, partly because of how much he grabs it at the bottom.

There is a news crew here following him around. Rumor has it it's ESPN, but it could be a local crew. I can't tell.

I will update as the squad goes on

--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.

 

DP3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6093
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2006, 05:20:43 PM »
Who cares who is capable of bowling 900?  If you weren't so blinded by numbers you'd realize that this is about winning.  It's this selfish score-centric attitude that is destroying the sport of bowling.   You're so impressed by numbers it's rediculous.  Several people shot 300's and record breaking scores at gold on sanctioned sport patterns and this is overshadowed by a "prebowled 900" from a guy that couldn't even make the cut.  GTF outta here.....this is a shame.
--------------------
-DP3
Respect the Game

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2006, 05:50:20 PM »
I tend to do well on tougher conditions.

So like many people I admire high scoring ability on league conditions!

WHY...cause i don't have it!  I want what I can't have!

Destroying bowling???

When Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in a pro basketball game basketball survived and thrived!
When Homero Blancas shot 55 in golf in the 1970s...it did not destroy golf!
When Tom Doty shot 23 for 9 holes it did not destroy golf.
When Luckylefty shot ?? golf survived also!
When rank Amateur Jeff Rodgers broke the world record in Water Skiing after about 1 year of competitive waterskiing it did not destroy the sport.(many predicted he would never amount to anything and maybe cheated...sound familiar?) recently he broke the world record and also won the world championships.

Great scoring destroys nothing!
It actually excites the masses!

Nothing could be better for bowling than what may happen.
ESPN goes out to prove that Mushtare possibly was not on the "Up and UP".
He performs "under par" at the US junior GOld.  Like many here they don't understand the difference between a big time record setting type of technique and a tight condition direct game.  They feel they are on the right path at this point in story!

Next they go to his home turf.  HE and Pete Weber have a rousing high scoring match both shooting near 800!  ESPN...changes story to be coming phenom must only learn to bowl on tighter more difficult conditions to be someone to reckoned with!  Have to redo interviews etc.  This story excites the masses!  The possibilities!  Bowling gains.  Would this placate some?

My coach who loves a dynamic ball on the lanes would love Robert Mushtare's game.

Others may love a more direct line(ala Dave Davis).  I love THAT too!

I simply went on a very full scheduled business trip for one reason to make money...I fit this stop by at the Junior Gold for one REASON...to assess whether I believed this young man had all the ball I thought it would take to shoot 900.  He does and more...and he did!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I would have loved to have the time to study all 1000 male competitors and the X x 100 female competitors to assess strenght weaknesses...composure, sparemaking...parental influence, self drive, rev rate, speed, versatility, lanereading, spans, fit, pitches, weight of balls, axis rotation, tilt.
Time prevented it!  SORRRY! If my reasons were politically incorrect for stopping there I apologize.. or if I did not have enough time I apologize also.

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/17/2006 5:53 PM
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

DP3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6093
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2006, 06:08:29 PM »
Ugh, another rant to a very direct comment.  A long time ago I learned that a keyboard warrior's favorite defense to the truth is sarcasm.

All I am saying is where is the credit given to everyone else who performed well and made the team at Gold.  Bowl.com and the rest of the press did a horrible job with the press on this event.  The Top 16 this year was probaly as intense as it ever has been but the big story still is something that happened in February.  It sickens me that no "Mushtarian Tales" or stories were written on the guys that actually made the team(aside from the obvious winners reports, and the small small story on Ronnie Sparks), or the people that shot 300 at Gold(including the first female 300 ever).  Where were all the press crews for that?  Did ESPN take away from their story to catch the kid that ran off the first 10 just two pairs down from Mushtare?  Did ESPN stick around for the action packed matchplay?  No....they got their little story, ran with it and could still care less about what Junior Gold is all about.  I feel alot of people other than ESPN are guilty of this too.
--------------------
-DP3
Respect the Game

a_ak57

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10584
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2006, 06:09:56 PM »
It's quite amazing how you didn't understand DP3's post at all.  Not even at all.  

PS-  DJ, are you going with mytmouse to that NJ trade show?
--------------------
- Andy

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2006, 06:22:33 PM »
I understand his post...I was there for one reason..not the reason he wanted me to be there.  SORRY! (it did look like a great tournament..my life is different from yours!  and his!)

I remember one time we had a wonderful golfer on his way to scholarship at Wake Forest and then the expected pro tour success that almost always came to those golfers.

His winning streak was broken in he came in fourth.  My partner and I were third.

The article was about him coming in 4th!  The winner MAYBE got mentioned as a sidenote. Yours truly with a great performance with his partner for 3rd never were mentioned.  2nd place fell off the map also!

I understand! We are still waiting for our headline...local full time employees lick college wonderboy!...Still waiting!...and waiting!  I understand!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

J_L_B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1182
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2006, 06:38:59 PM »
Something similar to the ESPN thing with Mushy happened at Tour Trials with J.T. Jackson (Cola in the Bacardi and Cola Commercials) who happens to be a friend of mine here in So Cal. They were doing interviews with him, action shots, etc. about his attempt at making the Tour.

Needless to say he finished towards the bottom. The story sometimes is about the person who can bring the most publicity to the event and not those who are actually the best competitors.
--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-06
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2006, 07:11:44 PM »
quote:
I understand his post...I was there for one reason..not the reason he wanted me to be there.  SORRY! (it did look like a great tournament..my life is different from yours!  and his!)

I remember one time we had a wonderful golfer on his way to scholarship at Wake Forest and then the expected pro tour success that almost always came to those golfers.

His winning streak was broken in he came in fourth.  My partner and I were third.

The article was about him coming in 4th!  The winner MAYBE got mentioned as a sidenote. Yours truly with a great performance with his partner for 3rd never were mentioned.  2nd place fell off the map also!

I understand! We are still waiting for our headline...local full time employees lick college wonderboy!...Still waiting!...and waiting!  I understand!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


So now it comes out. You are trying live out your fantasies by jumping on Musthare*'s bandwagen.

There is one person, you, who says Musthare* is accurate, and 5-10 that say he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, who should we believe?!?

If Musthare* really shot 5 900 series in 6 months, as he claimed, Why wouldn't he be able to adjust and at least make the cut at this tournament?!? So now you are making excuses as to why he didn;t bowl well here. And the more bowlers you list, the more you make this point. All those guys you listed, none have a 900 series do they? Not to my knowledge, yet Musthare* has 5?!? So you think he is that much better then all those guys you bowled with? I guess so from your quote. I bet thise guys will be wanting to talk to you come next league night.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Jorge300

onerevaway

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2006, 08:50:58 PM »
hey luckylefty he was minus 256 and cut was 162 thats almost a hundred pins he didnt miss cut by 6 it was a lot more than that!! his game needs work that is for sure but not all of us are saying he has a bad game he just proved to everyone he does not have the ability to shoot 900!! mental game sucks spare game sucks and he is very innacurate!! i guess when u prebowl at ur house when no one is around there is no pressure and no one to see u cheat so i guess everything i said before doesnt apply to pre bowling haha!!!

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2006, 11:43:42 PM »
Ahhh...I said the local guys CAN shoot 900!

REad closer.  

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I believe many 900s have NOT been shot...because the players did not believe they could do it and STOPPED themselves!
PPS regarding fantasizing...I don't have too!  I've had my day in the sun in a couple of sports...luckily for me...I have witnesses! For some strange reason I don't think I'm done...but I could be.  And at one time cash in the banks from the little things I've had happen with very little talent to speak of.  Regarding my statements to DP3 regarding the coverage of the tournament and my interest in it only to see Robert Mushtare...my comments were only to recognize his valid complaints that the winner and top placers sometimes get overlooked if there is another angle the media (or fans)wants to see!  You see I'm a believer!  It is the force of the mind that can overcome even the strongest of bodies!

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

BallsDeep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2006, 12:50:32 AM »
If you get the first 2 300s in league and blow it in the third, I'll believe you.  I think Jeff Carter said it best.  He shot 878 with 2 300s and 278, however the 900 attempt was over in the 4th frame and thus he doesn't consider it close.  Perhaps it was that there was no pressure that he was able to shoot back to back 300s, but isn't that a huge barrier that is mutually held throughout bowlers and other athletes.  At times one can overcome the pressure and do something remarkable, but with such a feat, it may add more pressure to repeat that feat.  The other bowlers that shot 900 never reached that plateau again, and those other great performances were never equalled by those individuals again.


I feel as though your thinking of this as though it was a 300, that the first one is the hardest to get out of the way and then the next ones get progressively easier, but I'd have to argue the contrary.  With 300 and 800 the numbers have been reached and repeated by many that repetition is expected to a great deal and unless one hasn't shot an honor score in a while the pressure is releaved when shot.  The first 900 was shot and it was proven possible, then more were shot.  These additional 900s were 1 per bowler.  It is so difficult to carry 36 straight shots that that simple fact probably contributed to the reason multiple 900s were never shot and also the pressure of becoming the first to repeat must in and of itself be a great pressure.  

Your general argument is that Mushtare was such a great pressure bowler that he was immune to all pressures and just had to deal with hitting the pocket 36 times.  That he had enough confidence, area, and hitting power to carry 36 straight shots 5 times, in league play.  I'm sorry I can't believe it.  He has the same level of pressure that us mere mortals have.  I have no jealousy toward him, I just believe that he could not possibly have shot these scores.  I don't care how good or not good he is, he could be Ogrady, and I'd still have to say that its impossible.
--------------------
four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]

How can you have any pudding if you've dirtied your feet?

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2006, 09:11:00 AM »
The statistically improbable theory and the small shot venue versus big shot venue are failed logic.

They don't explain
Tom Doty Golfer
Bob Beamon Long jump(2 feet longer than he'd ever gone)
Jeff Rodgers (World record holder in Waterskiing after one year competing...failed at first in national level tourney's became world champ).
Billy Dunk..golfer who set scoring records all over Australia but won very few tournies!  Often Nicklaus in the field.

Wait till you hear results of Pete Weber/Mushtare match....things will get clearer.

I don't know them...that is just how I feel from what i have seen.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS what is the matter with the people above???  They don't know they are not suppossed to!  What is the MATTER With them!!!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2006, 10:14:55 AM »
Weird comments above???

You've heard it from the US team coach...it's just too hard for people to get their minds around it!

Oh...about those other guys in league...well Dennis P above...runnerup in the US senior open last year understands the differrence in a big game and his very refined splitting boards game!

Jeff Carter has tried to explain it to you.  He above in one of these forums has stated he doubts he could average what he did in his record setting year.
YET...he has improved in the venue he wants to conquer the pro tour!

Many who have been around the Pro golf tour have watched players games get smaller and professional or tour results improve!  Less dynamic and exposive  and tight condition success improve.
A great example would be Curtis Strange who's game got 3 times lees dynamic or explosive as he went from long hitting NCAA golf champion to missed the cut bomb out at PGA tour qualifying school to straight hitting multi US open champ!

YOu guys just don't get it!

YOu act as though Walter Ray Williams would have a high probablility of shooting 900...and if you watch and understand you would realize ...highly unlikely!  Clearly a great bowler no doubt!  900 potential very low.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS PBA tour star Steve Wilson is great...and yet...I am not sure he has ever averaged in the 230s on a league condition for a whole season!  Many have and yet Steve has gone out ot the tour and won his share with less high scoring potential on league conditions than many from the same area. (I also believe that if not so commited to his important family life he could be a mega star on tour...)  He understands the difference on the tour...the guys who average 240 in the area who cannot transition don't understand it or don't have the same desire!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2006, 11:50:52 AM »
quote:
Weird comments above???

You've heard it from the US team coach...it's just too hard for people to get their minds around it!

Oh...about those other guys in league...well Dennis P above...runnerup in the US senior open last year understands the differrence in a big game and his very refined splitting boards game!

Jeff Carter has tried to explain it to you.  He above in one of these forums has stated he doubts he could average what he did in his record setting year.
YET...he has improved in the venue he wants to conquer the pro tour!

Many who have been around the Pro golf tour have watched players games get smaller and professional or tour results improve!  Less dynamic and exposive  and tight condition success improve.
A great example would be Curtis Strange who's game got 3 times lees dynamic or explosive as he went from long hitting NCAA golf champion to missed the cut bomb out at PGA tour qualifying school to straight hitting multi US open champ!

YOu guys just don't get it!

YOu act as though Walter Ray Williams would have a high probablility of shooting 900...and if you watch and understand you would realize ...highly unlikely!  Clearly a great bowler no doubt!  900 potential very low.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS PBA tour star Steve Wilson is great...and yet...I am not sure he has ever averaged in the 230s on a league condition for a whole season!  Many have and yet Steve has gone out ot the tour and won his share with less high scoring potential on league conditions than many from the same area. (I also believe that if not so commited to his important family life he could be a mega star on tour...)  He understands the difference on the tour...the guys who average 240 in the area who cannot transition don't understand it or don't have the same desire!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


Lefty, please, please come back to planet Earth.

Every example you give would hold weight if Musthare shot 1 900 series, maybe even 2. But he claims to have shot 5, 2 in practice and 3 in prebowl for league. Now if any of your golfer analogies,which don't translate to bowling at all by the way, were to be true, you'd have to find someone who shot 58 5 times at his local course. No one has claimed to have done that. If someone had and they missed the cut at their first junior tournament by the amount at which Musthare* did, and have many witnesses saying he couldn't hit a fairway consistently to save his life, which we do about Musthare* and his so-called accuracy, you'd question the legitimacy of his 58's. Because as you get nearer then end of a feat like that, the pressue builds, and if someone can hande that much pressure, participating in a tournament, no matter how tough the shot isn't any more pressure then you've already felt. Yet Musthare* couldn't even come close to making the cut.

There are many bowlers who you have said, look like they can shoot 900. But how many of them have done it? You never answered that question. Because the answer is zero. Yet Musthare* supposedly has shot 5......FIVE!!! So he is 5 times better then all those other bowlers that you say look like they can shoot 900? Somehow I don't think so, and if I were one of those bowlers you were mentioning, I'd make sure you knew about if I ever saw you again, because you are insulting them. And you are insulting us. If Pete Weber goes up there and loses, does that make he 900 series legitimate, No. It means maybe Pete had a bad day, it happens to everyone. If Pete wins, what does it prove, that a Professional can beat a 17 yr old? Big News. Nothing to gain from this for anyone, so not sure it is worth mentioning.

You have shown nothing that increases the chances of these scores being legitimate. In fact, the more you compare him to all these other great bowlers with no 900 series, you are making the case stronger that they are not. So maybe we should be thanking you for all your hard work in making these scores look even more phony.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Jorge300

L33t

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2006, 11:56:43 AM »
... do you think the team usa coaches would actually admit to the press that he doesnt throw that good of a ball?!?!? yea they might of said that he throws a good ball, but do you actaully think its true?... you must have not been watching the same person that everyone else was

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2006, 12:19:37 PM »
and if Pete has a great day ...and loses?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I believe 58s on easy conditions in golf are something a real stick could do more than once in a year.   I believe MOE Norman had at least 5 o6 sub 60s in competition probably many more in practice rounds(did not actively play on US tour) There is no insult to the bowlers above...none.  Because Dennis Psarapoulous has told me many times that on certain conditions one can't stop a strapper.  Bob Hanson on this site has said so many a time also!  My friend and mentor Dave Davis has the type of game to maybe go win Junior Gold at age 60...thinks he can shoot 900...I don't think so!
PPS you are also dicounting the advantage of prebowling which someone above has mentioned and I believe is valid...significant advantage...allowed and shouldn't be.  But that is not Robert Mushtare's fault.
Again...a friend of mine arrived late and shot 36 in a row.  (five after end of bowling) I saw him do 30 in a row in league.  He threw a GREAT strike ball...not as dynamic as Mustare's.  He had a "I can do anything when HOT" attitude that was arrogant cocky and great to be around AND the reason he could do what he could do!  If I saw him right now he'd say...I could shoot 5 900s in  a year!

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana