BallReviews

General Category => Youth Bowling => Topic started by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 07:43:51 AM

Title: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 07:43:51 AM
Not sure anyone cares but Jeff Mop is giving updates.

Update1:
quote:

If you want to read an ACTUAL report, I'm sitting here at Boca Bowl where Mushtare is actually bowling his first round (no, he didn't prebowl). His first game started off with a strike, then he went Big 4, missed them all (one of the corners was out, so it was 7-), then he flagged the headpin left leaving the 1-3-6 and chopped the headpin clean off. At this point, he had 32 in the third. He did make a nice comeback, though, going triple, then spare strike spare strike the rest of the game for 191.

I didn't see most of the second game, but I did see a runaway brooklyn where he left a 5-pin. He also finished the game X 7/ S8- XXX for 200 on the dot. He is now -9 after 2.

The pattern in this center is a 35 foot pattern. The breakpoint is out near 5, so bowlers are either playing up the gutter or freewheeling it. Mushtare is freewheeling it, but the lanes will start carrying down soon, so he will get some push in the middle, but it might come at the expense of bringing the ball back from the outsides. We'll see what happens.


The kid actually doesn't throw the ball half bad. He definitely throws it better than on that video clip from the news report we all saw. Still, he grabs and hits up on the ball a TON. His accuracy needs lots of work as well, partly because of how much he grabs it at the bottom.

There is a news crew here following him around. Rumor has it it's ESPN, but it could be a local crew. I can't tell.

I will update as the squad goes on

--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 03:44:50 PM
Update2:
quote:

Lanes changing fast - started off the third game gutter spare, washout, 2-10 for 34 in the third.
well, he finished that game off for 166. For what it's worth, someone about 5 pairs left of him just went front 10 in a row for 287.


--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 03:45:27 PM
Update3:
quote:

i will try to find out who shot the 287, and no, it wasn't prebowled lol I witnessed it.

Mushtare update: after leaving the 3-6-9-10 in the 9th frame and flagging all 4 pins into the right gutter, he now has 110 in the ninth frame.

This has to be the exact thing Mushtare didn't want to happen, and likely the exact thing everyone else wanted to happen.


--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Mvpbowler on July 10, 2006, 04:06:00 PM
I hear there is a camera crew there from ESPN following his bowling and the controversy over the 900s. I am sure that isnt helping his cause one bit! This is a horrible thing for him!! Poor Kid, wait what am I saying.. HE BROUGHT it on himself!! HAHA
--------------------
George Palumbo
Mvpbowler300@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Mvpbowler on July 10, 2006, 04:08:18 PM
Oh yes and please keep those updates coming!!!
--------------------
George Palumbo
Mvpbowler300@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Hex017 on July 10, 2006, 04:09:28 PM
Sounds like he isn't adjusting well to even oil pattern creating the slick outsides, if he's flagging the 3-6-9-10 into the gutter....

I have to admit I feel bad for him...but we'll see what happens.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: TWOHAND834 on July 10, 2006, 04:09:49 PM
It shall be interesting to see how LuckyLefty defends him on this one .  We all saw this coming.  I dont think there are too many people there who did not want to see him fall on his face.  He asked for this.  I dont feel sorry for him.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Hex017 on July 10, 2006, 04:13:09 PM
quote:
It shall be interesting to see how LuckyLefty defends him on this one .  We all saw this coming.  I dont think there are too many people there who did not want to see him fall on his face.  He asked for this.  I dont feel sorry for him.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!


I already know LL will go back to refering how his skills are for house shots and blah blah, I have A LOT of respect for lucky don't get me wrong, but honestly our idols and best bowlers are the ones who throw the numbers on PBA and sport stuff, not 10-15 board area house shots. If he's good enough to throw 900s, for his sake he better at least average 185 on something tougher.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: TWOHAND834 on July 10, 2006, 04:50:06 PM
I wonder what really goes through Robby's mind when he is in front of alot of people and he cant hit the broad side of a barn (Do they have barns in NY?).  Do you think he gets anybody heckling him while he is bowling?  I can hear it now, "900 means you actually have to throw strikes.  I bet you did not shoot 900 for 4 games."  What a shame.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 04:52:35 PM
I man I hope he doesn't shoot 900 for his 6 game block. That would be tooo funny...
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Mvpbowler on July 10, 2006, 04:56:15 PM
That would be the greatest!!! I mean what is he at about 687 for 4 right now?! Hmm my guess is he ends at about 1025-1050 for the block.. -170 or so thats great for a guy who is the only person to shoot 2 900s right?!?!?!
--------------------
George Palumbo
Mvpbowler300@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Mvpbowler on July 10, 2006, 04:56:33 PM
LEfty any new updates?
--------------------
George Palumbo
Mvpbowler300@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: UCFKnight300 on July 10, 2006, 05:00:08 PM
Joe, are you heading down/up to watch at all this week?  
I was gona try to make it down to watch some of my former teammates, but this being my final week of school I have too much to do by friday.  

You missed out on the loschetter reunion, alot of fun this past weekend.  Kind of a wide variety of years there, oldest guy was 28 I believe and the youngest I think 20.  44 entries, pattern E, and Loschetter wins of coarse, lol.  They're gona try to have it every summer so entries should definetly get higher as more people hear about it.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 05:08:20 PM
quote:
Joe, are you heading down/up to watch at all this week?  
I was gona try to make it down to watch some of my former teammates, but this being my final week of school I have too much to do by friday.  

You missed out on the loschetter reunion, alot of fun this past weekend.  Kind of a wide variety of years there, oldest guy was 28 I believe and the youngest I think 20.  44 entries, pattern E, and Loschetter wins of coarse, lol.  They're gona try to have it every summer so entries should definetly get higher as more people hear about it.
--------------------
-Larsen
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006


I'm going to come down for the semi's and matchplay. I wanted to go to the reunion SOOO bad I was looking forward to going but found out Friday I had to work.

No updates yet.
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: backupball on July 10, 2006, 05:08:29 PM
I would be very interested to hear how big of a crowd was watching him, especially at the beginning of the block.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 10, 2006, 06:31:18 PM
I WAS there...missed Brunswick Lefty(who I love to watch)..

I met the young fella and his nice Mother and Sister.

He is a very unassuming young man and very understated.

I loved the way he throws and still stand all my statements regarding the difference between open shots and sport type shots.

I talked to both the house pro who felt most including Robert were playing the lanes the wrong way inside swing!  He felt they should be playing outside.

My opinion after seeing him in person is even better than over video.
A beautiful open style of play game with a tremendous lag between thumb and finger release(as detailed in the book Bowling Secrets of the Pros by Bill Horvath)..... Good speed and great level loft( I couldn't hear the ball hit the lane at all).  Bigger revs than I expected and a little more axis rotation than I expected...a little softer speed and big carry like I expected.

This young fella throws a rockin strike ball.

Was also impressed with his plastic ball corner pin spares.

There were also many other impressive bowlers there with incredible games...I mostly saw some of the men's games and loved several wow!

Did not think the shot was very tough but I only saw two games!  Not much transition yet. Business called!

My impression is still...no relationship between ability to throw high scores and tough shot performance.

This guy has a BIG game!  I still believe he did every thing he said he did.!

His Mother told me that during a small reception held for him at his home alley's he was asked if he would like to throw another 900?  His ans!wer..."not really!".  I would think this would have to make all of his detractors very happy!  And proud!

The more I spoke with his very pround and enjoyable Mother the more I was impressed with their enjoyment and respect for the game and his genuine desire to continue to learn more about other facets of the game despite the hubbub around him!

I also noted many competitors around him had developed a enjoyment of giving congratulations to him and to receive them from him as he appears to be a very centered and genuinely nice young man who enjoys bowling and his fellow competitors and is a gentleman sportsman.  He will only get better on these sport patterns with more experience.

I enjoyed it thoroughly.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS His Mother and Sister sat in front of me in the bleachers...and at one time the filming focused on his Mother and Sister with me  right above them.  Hope I wasn't doing anything that my Mother wouldn't want to see!  YES!  I do look that GOOD!
PPS watched the outstanding bowler Jeff Pirozshad recording of his comments listed above.  He and I have a different opinion of the possibility of 3 official 900s but I sure respect him and have loved his bowling for years.
Going back for more tomorrow before travelling.

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: wulfpackbwlr on July 10, 2006, 07:52:49 PM
I think the 900s are a bunch of crap as well but he did come back with a 222 I think and another 200 to shoot 1147 or something along those lines so he's not doing terrible esp. considering the 160 & 150 somethings he had.  Still dont see him doing well at all though.
--------------------
NCSU 2006
All Dyno-Thane
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 11:12:00 PM
quote:
i guess me and my friends are the only people to catch this but ... if mushtare had a 110 in the ninth frame then how could his lowest game possibly be 159?? my friend actually crossed next to him that game and she also noticed that he had 110 in the ninth ... so could be some possible goin on ... oh well i guess if u cant prebowl u gotta cheat
--------------------
Matt "m-dizzle" Jones


I noticed that too.
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.

Edited on 7/17/2006 9:17 AM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: jr_300 on July 10, 2006, 11:13:42 PM
i don't know i found this kind of funny. when i click the youth tab on the bowl.com page it brings the information up. but on the bottom left corner theres an advertisement for olympic bowling i think.  on top it says real athletes then in the middle USA and the five rings and then under that it says play fair. possible coincidence or is meant to be there.
--------------------
Jr
¡Viva la nación!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 10, 2006, 11:15:39 PM
quote:
quote:
i guess me and my friends are the only people to catch this but ... if mushtare had a 110 in the ninth frame then how could his lowest game possibly be 159?? my friend actually crossed next to him that game and she also noticed that he had 110 in the ninth ... so could be some possible  goin on ... oh well i guess if u cant prebowl u gotta cheat
--------------------
Matt "m-dizzle" Jones


Maybe he was talking straight pin count at the time, rather than the sheet had a 119 filled in the 9th. If he had 109 in the 8th and a spare or strike in the 9th, he has 119 pins, then just needs some marks in the 10th. There's a number of other ways to come up with 119 total pins after the 9th frame and still get to 159 too.
--------------------
Need new stuff? Get it from http://www.birddogbowling.com and get it drilled by Mike Austin!

I dare you to visit http://hammeroftruth.com !

**Don't waste your time - ignore lipscomb770**


He was on an open in the 9th.
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.

Edited on 7/17/2006 9:18 AM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 11, 2006, 01:41:39 PM
Fireguy...

YOu know what I believe?  I wrote what I believe!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS went again today saw he was ale to amp up speed considerably if wanted.
Game looked really big.  Shot looked like smaller worked better!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Bjaardker on July 11, 2006, 02:45:10 PM
We're not talking about big game, or good game...we're talking about PERFECT GAME for 3 three straight games..... THREE TIMES.

No one was questioning whether he was a good bowler, or strong, or whatever other adjective you choose. We're questioning whether he could do something no one has EVER done before.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 11, 2006, 03:13:05 PM
Guys, face it.  LL is in love.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 11, 2006, 11:23:51 PM
Mustard shot games of 164, 200, 162, 188, 197 and 177 for 1,088 today. -166 under so far.
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Strapper_Squared on July 12, 2006, 10:04:10 AM
I predict after the final six games he's -300....  Probably about as close to a 300 he will get outside of his prebowling arena.  Guess he doesn't have anyone at JOG to edit scores or throw extra messengers in from the pit?!?!  Poor, poor Robby.. I really do feel bad for him... NOT!

S^2
--------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"Chuck Norris doesn't say "who's your daddy", because he knows the answer."

-borrowed from ChuckNorrisFacts.com (http://"http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com")
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on July 12, 2006, 10:17:19 AM
Hey LuckyLefty, I love the up to date coverage on Mr. 900.  That is a cool feature to the Ballreviews forum since everyone is so obsessed with this guy (and his sister).
--------------------
Current Arsenal:
Geddy Lee
Living in their pools they soon forget about the sea...
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Duke of Earl on July 12, 2006, 10:01:13 PM
I also saw him tonight. He shot 160 something and 150 something next two games. I've been in bowling over 40 years. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt with one as anyone could get lucky but there is NO WAY this kid ever shot one legitimately. It's an absolute crime that these pros, ball reps and camera people are all over him and all the really good bowlers go unnoticed and unmentioned. How about giving my boy OG "the Beast" some props. After all, he only beat this kid by about 500 pins.

By the way, my son and his friend told me the USA team coaches were behind watching him and walked away after they saw him throw one shot....a 5 count.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: onerevaway on July 13, 2006, 01:43:05 AM
whatever he throws the ball ok but so do hundreds of other kids he sucks he didnt make cut and he cheated and oh by the way i got a good clip of him leaving a pocket 7 10 even tho i thought he knew how to carry it before he even left it. no more arguments he sucks hes a house hack hahaha!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 12:27:24 AM
For all of the nasty comments on here...

Here is an article and a quote that sums it up very well.


Not JUST OK!  (http://"http://www.bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=11973&f=1")

He throws it great!
Here is a quote from the Team USA Junior Gold Coach Rod Ross!

Among those who had a chance to watch Mushtare during qualifying was Junior Team USA head coach Rod Ross.

"I was very impressed with his physical game," Ross said. "He throws a phenomenal ball and has a nice loose arm swing. He has a lot of raw talent. He can definitely strike and strike a lot, and there's no doubt in my mind that he shot those 900s."

Earlier in the article Robert was quoted as saying he had difficulty finding the line...Anyone who has tried a sport condition for the first time knows that feeling!!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I have a lot more to say on the subject!  But it was said better than I can by a much more respected source than I am...above!  Right on!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/17/2006 12:37 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Xfest on July 17, 2006, 01:02:26 AM
old LL showing love to him again.

i think LL is Mushtare is disguise.

LOL
--------------------

Mean Machine (heavy oil)
Machine (medium oil)
Desert Heat (light oil)
Ambush (used for spares - any condition)

Join the revolution.
www.trackbowling.com
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 09:57:49 AM
I think this is SO great...one of bowling's establishments makes some very positive comments about his game...and you guys direct your disparaging comments towards me.  While ingoring what was said...and the knowledgeable source...
This makes you look like an ....

How great...for you...

Your jealousy towards this young man shows thru....making you look...

REgards,

Luckylefty


--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: SKIDSNAP on July 17, 2006, 10:28:45 AM
THE ESTABLISHMENT DID NOT HAVE THE GUTS TO DENY HIS SCORE.

So of course they are going to try to gloss everything over...

Do you really expect a Team USA coach to say something like " wow this kid really sucks!  HE can't hit the broad side of the barn.  I guess the people who pay my salary and let me travel all over the world on their dime really missed this one!!!!  What were they thinking by passing his 2 obviously bogus honor series...."

Lets get real.

LL sorry man but I think you have missed the boat on this one.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: onerevaway on July 17, 2006, 12:22:21 PM
that is y i asked before y he never did gold survivors because let me tell u one kid went plus 450 for 6 games which included two 300s but there were some shots were he just didnt carry no one shoots 36 in a row that many times not possible..best youth bowlers in the nation at JOG and not one person came close to shootitng 900 on a shot that was prob as easy as pine plaines...oh and lukcylefty now that ur defending how he throws it since u were saying he was going to do awesome at JOG and he failed u on that as well of course ross is not going to say that he thought mushtare threw a terrible ball and that there is doubt he shot those 900s u think bowl.com would put that up there give me a break!! im telling u kids i talked to at JOG were not impressed by him at all and were laughing at the fact that ESPN was taping him they have nothing to show because he did nothing at JOG!!  what bowl.com also doesnt tell u is that usbc knows mushtare cheated but with no proof they couldnt deny his claims without getting sued i found that out in florida as well!! the kids a hack luckylefty or should i say robert mushtare??
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 12:52:08 PM
NEVER...did I say he would do well at JOG!  With no experience and no special drilling preparation I believe he went into a hornet's nest!

NEVER...show me where I said that!

I emphasized instead the difference between having a game for wide open shots and a game for JOG and sport shots!

I saw many a small ladies game(they were not all small) look like it fit very nicely at JOG.

Robert Mushtare has a very BIG game and with proper preparation and drillings he could tear up JOG also.

His technique is compact and extremely powerful in every aspect.  I also believe he is quite accurate but like most first time jog bowlers and sport shot bowlers they struggle with all the middle spares and combo spares.
When watching him I was under the distinct opinion that he just couldn't figure out a matchup of where to stand for the drillings he had.  A place I had once been until I figured our a set of smooth drillings for these types of patterns but without them very low scoring was and is possible for me and I believe for anybody.

Also I watched him for about 6 games I thought he was better than most cranker style bowlers at 10 pins as I don't remember a miss...but there may have been one!

This week I understand that per ESPN's request Pete Weber is going to Robert Mushtare's center to bowl him on his own turf(something noone on this site could find there keys for).  Depending on How much Pete gets into his head MAYBE Pete will take him.  I expect that to be a hell of a tussle with Pete ending up impressed and ESPN having to change it's story line from one of emphasizing possible cheating to "Phenom in development!"

That is a prediction I WILL make!

Stay tuned.

Prediction from me that he would be a great first time JOG bowler with no. preparation...NEVER!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS furthermore...I would like to say I saw some other absolutely GREAT bowlers at JOG...there were several men's game there on the right side that reminded me of of the great Dave Davis's game on the left.  Tremendous speed great extension ...good revs and small board coverage...great for JOG as I saw it!
I did not get all the names but I loved the throws!
PPS I did say that I would like to see the Crowned Champion Matt Ogrady bowl Robert Mushtare at his center BEFORE this competition and would like to also congratulate the Young and obviously great Mr. Ogrady for his incredible accomplishment...if I did not have so much pressing business I would have found his squad and watched!  Kudos!

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/17/2006 1:33 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: onerevaway on July 17, 2006, 12:58:44 PM
sandbaggin that is true when i watched him at JOG he did miss some fairly easy spares and there shots that he didnt carry i have a pocket 7 10 that he left on tape u should see his face he looks surprised that he left it haha!! ill try to get that up on here!!  when he didnt make cut he talked about all the pressure im sorry man but u brought that pressure on urself!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Bluff on July 17, 2006, 01:07:07 PM
quote:


Robert Mushtare has a very BIG game and with proper preparation and drillings he could tear up JOG also.

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


I just don't get one thing!! Why both of the 900's are Pre-bowl???? Is this a pre-bowl league? I don't question his ability but pre-bowl???? both???? I think if those pre-bowl stuff can clear up I am sure alot of people will feel dif. Yea 186 on sport is good for a kid but for some one who has 2 900's should have make the team.
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Looser have to paid for balls. Bolwers keep buying! Yea I got Balls!!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Joe Jr on July 17, 2006, 01:19:46 PM
quote:
I'm wondering how many 300 games Jeff Carter had in the 2000-2001 season in the league he bowled in when he averaged 261 or even all of the league and tournaments he bowled in altogether that season.  I wouldn't be surprised if the number of 300 games in the league he averaged 261 in was less than 9.


I wouldn't say that. Incase you don't know, Jeff has 108 300 games.

Either way i'm so over this kid. Let it go, move on it's over.
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com

House shots are killing this sport.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: baccala8872 on July 17, 2006, 01:50:43 PM

This week I understand that per ESPN's request Pete Weber is going to Robert Mushtare's center to bowl him on his own turf(something noone on this site could find there keys for).  Depending on How much Pete gets into his head MAYBE Pete will take him.  I expect that to be a hell of a tussle with Pete ending up impressed and ESPN having to change it's story line from one of emphasizing possible cheating to "Phenom in development!"

That is a prediction I WILL make!

Stay tuned.




Lefty,

Please tell me you are kidding.  You think MustCheat will give PDW a tussle?  You know, that special needs child won an ESPY last night for scoring 20 points in 6 minutes.  You think he could take Kobe one-on-one?  I apologize if I come off as crude, but sometimes I find it hard to believe that you even believe half the idolization dribble that comes out of your own mouth.


--------------------
"Enjoy every sandwich."
--a cancer-ridden Warren Zevon's reply to David Letterman's question of, "What have you learned from life?"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 17, 2006, 02:56:45 PM
The quote LL put is true, I have read it on more then one site. We also have discussed how Mr Ross should have not mentioned the 900 series in his quote. A lot of repected bowlers who have not met Coach Ross, have said they have lost a little respect for him by these comments. No one disagrees that Musthare*'s game isn't good, he throws a powerful ball. But so do hundred's of other bowlers that can't claim 1, much less 5 900 series. The ability of his game doesn't mean the scores are legitimate.

With reading of these in progress updates, I think it drapes his accomplishments in even more doubt. Someone who has the ability to shoot 5 perfect series in a 6 month period, should be able to display more spare shooting ability and more accuracy then these updates show. While his armswing and release are good, it appears his accuracy and mental game isn't up to snuff. And those are the 2 things needed in order to shoot a 900 series, IMHO. So for those that have chosen to believe his claims, they will make excuses as to why he bowled bad at JOG, first time on sport shot, too much pressure from the media, ESPN camera crew, etc etc etc. But these updates show that even while his overall score might be respectable for a normal bowler, he made many mental mistakes and fell well below expectations for a bowler who has accomplished what he has claimed. So LL, please tell us how if Musthare* is a legitimate 900 series bowler, something that takes more mental toughness then one can imagine, he made all these mental mistakes in this tournament? The answer is easy, his claims are not true.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 03:18:05 PM
I've written this before and I will again.

Several years ago.

A very good bowler in South Florida who I respect a bunch.(regional champ??? almost...maybe...not sure) came in to a WTC tourney.

They were having a little sweeper on the shot...I entered at the last minute.

The acquaintance above told me that the night before with his brand new Messenger Ti he had shot an 855 in league the night before...

Like me he is lefty and we got paired up with the great Dave Davis just 3 lefties.

In the sweeper which was a tight shot with OB on the outside and no hold area on the inside.

100 bowlers...some pro tour guys.  After 2 games...Jason Couch first...Dave Davis second...luckylefty 3rd.  All scores just slightly under 500 for two say 480!

I cause a scoring error in game 3 the error takes it seems a half hour to fix...I choke and finish with a bad game and end up about 640.  Jason Couch first, Dave Davis second...me 11th or so many sub 600s shot...our 855 friend shoots...465?  or 481?  I forget.

I immediately conclude ...tell me if this is correct?
1.  I am better than him!
2.  He didn't shoot the 855
3.  I can shoot 860...or maybe 855 + the difference in our scores that day!
4.  He used the wrong ball...is 3 times better than me and I can't shoot 750 if my life depended on it!

Correct answer
A..... 1,2 and 3
B.....  1 only
C.....  2 only
D ....  3 only
E ..... only 4!!!

I believe given the logic given above if any of the commentators above would only be able to answer A B C or D if they took and applied theire "Mushtare" mindset to the above situation.  My answer is E!

Here is my statement.  Robert Mushtare is very very good.  Robert Mushtare is powerful and accurate.  Robert Mushtare is awesome on open conditions.
Robert Mushtare is not so great YET on sport conditions(missed cut by 6 pins).
Robert Mushtare will show his open shot prowess when he and Pete Weber meet and they have a hell of a fun and high scoring match in his home house.!  We don't have to wait long...I believe this weekend is the scheduled date.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS if the bowler above recognizes himself above...I apologize...I have the greatest of respect for your bowling and believe that you could shoot 900 any day also!!
PPS as a golfer who was well noted for birdies in a row but not so well known for scrambling for pars...I believe there is a significant difference in the mental attitude to keep a great score going and scrambling to maintain mediocrity!



--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/17/2006 5:04 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 17, 2006, 03:27:47 PM
Quote
Here is my statement.  Robert Mushtare is very very good.  Robert Mushtare is powerful and accurate. quote]

How can you say that?!? Every post about his game shows he is anything but accurate. So all these people watching him are lying? I don't think so.

And as far as your quiz, I think you have helped me back up my point. This bowler in question, the one who should have shot 900, has he? Im guessing not. I know other bowlers just like him, better then I can ever hope to be, I can watch them throw 3,4,5 + games and tell me what spot they are going to hit at the arrows and at the breakpoint and be within 1-2 boards every shot. But none of them have a 900 series. Even on easy house shots!! So please don't try and say that a guy that sprays the ball like Musthare* is witnessed to have done, shot 5 900 series in 6 months as he is claiming. If you really and truely believe that, then I feel very sorry for you. Because either you have or you will spend your life getting used by people as they take advantage of your gullibility.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Bluff on July 17, 2006, 04:05:36 PM
I do beleived that you can get let say 80 pins more if you are bowling alone without the other team being there!!!! I think The word PRE-BOWL has alot to why other don't think he did It sound like yea I did it in practic.

Now forget mr Mustard World War III is and is so hot grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Looser have to paid for balls. Bolwers keep buying! Yea I got Balls!!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 04:39:24 PM
I did not see a lot of inaccuracy...I WAS THERE!

INSTEAD I  saw a lot of indecision as to where to stand and what to aim at.

I believe these conditions can affect a big game more than a small game.

I saw some wonderful woman bowlers with games that reminded me of Carolyn Dorin Ballard playing and scoring beautifully playing a game that almost looked like their normal up the second arrow game from league with a one board hook.

I believe that Robert Mushtare needed practice time on the shots, different drillings and in one case I believe he had found a good ball matchup but was trying to find the line thru tremendous speed INSTEAD of moving his feet much deeper!

NOte...let me list a group of bowlers I have been fortunate enough to stumble across and practice with on an either regular or almost everyday basis for awhile, or bowl league with to give you my point of reference as to my opinions.

Dave Davis...PBA Hall of Famer ...20 wins on the PBA tour and PBA player of the year 1967(some consider the greatest form bowler of all time(I agree).  Steve Wilson, several time PBA champion(recent),  Dennis Psarapoulous(runnerup last year senior US open championships...6th this year?),
Jimmy Keeth(biggest cranker of all time and PBA champion(RIP), in my new location I also bowl with the #2 300 bowler in bowling(to Jeff CArter on this site) and a recorded 868 series, and  multiple 800 shooter Roy Becker of the Petersburg VA area who probably scored 20 800s over his multiple leagues a couple of years ago in a single season(struggles on sport conditions till recently).

Of the list above I believe only Mr. #2 on the 300 list and Roy Becker and Robert Mushtare are capable of 900s.

Robert Mushtare and Roy BEcker throw two of the most dynamic free armswing crushing striking balls I have ever seen!

On difficult conditions I would take the more direct games of the beginning of the list.  If my goal is find someone to shoot 900 I take one of the horses on the bottom of the list!

And anyway...why argue with me... why don't you tell the coach of the US team he's an idiot!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS again...Robert Mushtare's open shot bowling will soon be compared to the Great Pete Weber's head to head.  I believe you will hear some praise coming out of Pete's mouth win lose or draw!...you can kiss my grits....THEN!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: DP3 on July 17, 2006, 04:41:31 PM
quote:


Here is my statement.  Robert Mushtare is very very good.  Robert Mushtare is powerful and accurate.  Robert Mushtare is awesome on open conditions.
Robert Mushtare is not so great YET on sport conditions(missed cut by 6 pins).
Robert Mushtare will show his open shot prowess when he and Pete Weber meet and they have a hell of a fun and high scoring match in his home house.!  We don't have to wait long...I believe this weekend is the scheduled date.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS if the bowler above recognizes himself above...I apologize...I have the greatest of respect for your bowling and believe that you could shoot 900 any day also!!
PPS as a golfer who was well noted for birdies in a row but not so well known for scrambling for pars...I believe there is a significant difference in the mental attitude to keep a great score going and scrambling to maintain mediocrity!



--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..




This is so sad.

200+ other people bowl better than Mushtare, a br.com member Matt O'Grady wins the thing and the first person LL mentions that is "very very good" and "accurate" (which is laughable) is Mushtare.  You are crazy.
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 05:13:09 PM
I did see other VERY good bowlers...and said so!  Capable of 900?....ummmm....

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I did not see any others more likely to shoot 900...than RM one of the most dynamic games I've ever seen.
I did not see all squads!  Rushed in and out and saw MAYBE...five games total!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: DP3 on July 17, 2006, 05:20:43 PM
Who cares who is capable of bowling 900?  If you weren't so blinded by numbers you'd realize that this is about winning.  It's this selfish score-centric attitude that is destroying the sport of bowling.   You're so impressed by numbers it's rediculous.  Several people shot 300's and record breaking scores at gold on sanctioned sport patterns and this is overshadowed by a "prebowled 900" from a guy that couldn't even make the cut.  GTF outta here.....this is a shame.
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 05:50:20 PM
I tend to do well on tougher conditions.

So like many people I admire high scoring ability on league conditions!

WHY...cause i don't have it!  I want what I can't have!

Destroying bowling???

When Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in a pro basketball game basketball survived and thrived!
When Homero Blancas shot 55 in golf in the 1970s...it did not destroy golf!
When Tom Doty shot 23 for 9 holes it did not destroy golf.
When Luckylefty shot ?? golf survived also!
When rank Amateur Jeff Rodgers broke the world record in Water Skiing after about 1 year of competitive waterskiing it did not destroy the sport.(many predicted he would never amount to anything and maybe cheated...sound familiar?) recently he broke the world record and also won the world championships.

Great scoring destroys nothing!
It actually excites the masses!

Nothing could be better for bowling than what may happen.
ESPN goes out to prove that Mushtare possibly was not on the "Up and UP".
He performs "under par" at the US junior GOld.  Like many here they don't understand the difference between a big time record setting type of technique and a tight condition direct game.  They feel they are on the right path at this point in story!

Next they go to his home turf.  HE and Pete Weber have a rousing high scoring match both shooting near 800!  ESPN...changes story to be coming phenom must only learn to bowl on tighter more difficult conditions to be someone to reckoned with!  Have to redo interviews etc.  This story excites the masses!  The possibilities!  Bowling gains.  Would this placate some?

My coach who loves a dynamic ball on the lanes would love Robert Mushtare's game.

Others may love a more direct line(ala Dave Davis).  I love THAT too!

I simply went on a very full scheduled business trip for one reason to make money...I fit this stop by at the Junior Gold for one REASON...to assess whether I believed this young man had all the ball I thought it would take to shoot 900.  He does and more...and he did!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I would have loved to have the time to study all 1000 male competitors and the X x 100 female competitors to assess strenght weaknesses...composure, sparemaking...parental influence, self drive, rev rate, speed, versatility, lanereading, spans, fit, pitches, weight of balls, axis rotation, tilt.
Time prevented it!  SORRRY! If my reasons were politically incorrect for stopping there I apologize.. or if I did not have enough time I apologize also.

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/17/2006 5:53 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: DP3 on July 17, 2006, 06:08:29 PM
Ugh, another rant to a very direct comment.  A long time ago I learned that a keyboard warrior's favorite defense to the truth is sarcasm.

All I am saying is where is the credit given to everyone else who performed well and made the team at Gold.  Bowl.com and the rest of the press did a horrible job with the press on this event.  The Top 16 this year was probaly as intense as it ever has been but the big story still is something that happened in February.  It sickens me that no "Mushtarian Tales" or stories were written on the guys that actually made the team(aside from the obvious winners reports, and the small small story on Ronnie Sparks), or the people that shot 300 at Gold(including the first female 300 ever).  Where were all the press crews for that?  Did ESPN take away from their story to catch the kid that ran off the first 10 just two pairs down from Mushtare?  Did ESPN stick around for the action packed matchplay?  No....they got their little story, ran with it and could still care less about what Junior Gold is all about.  I feel alot of people other than ESPN are guilty of this too.
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: a_ak57 on July 17, 2006, 06:09:56 PM
It's quite amazing how you didn't understand DP3's post at all.  Not even at all.  

PS-  DJ, are you going with mytmouse to that NJ trade show?
--------------------
- Andy
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 06:22:33 PM
I understand his post...I was there for one reason..not the reason he wanted me to be there.  SORRY! (it did look like a great tournament..my life is different from yours!  and his!)

I remember one time we had a wonderful golfer on his way to scholarship at Wake Forest and then the expected pro tour success that almost always came to those golfers.

His winning streak was broken in he came in fourth.  My partner and I were third.

The article was about him coming in 4th!  The winner MAYBE got mentioned as a sidenote. Yours truly with a great performance with his partner for 3rd never were mentioned.  2nd place fell off the map also!

I understand! We are still waiting for our headline...local full time employees lick college wonderboy!...Still waiting!...and waiting!  I understand!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: J_L_B on July 17, 2006, 06:38:59 PM
Something similar to the ESPN thing with Mushy happened at Tour Trials with J.T. Jackson (Cola in the Bacardi and Cola Commercials) who happens to be a friend of mine here in So Cal. They were doing interviews with him, action shots, etc. about his attempt at making the Tour.

Needless to say he finished towards the bottom. The story sometimes is about the person who can bring the most publicity to the event and not those who are actually the best competitors.
--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-06
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 17, 2006, 07:11:44 PM
quote:
I understand his post...I was there for one reason..not the reason he wanted me to be there.  SORRY! (it did look like a great tournament..my life is different from yours!  and his!)

I remember one time we had a wonderful golfer on his way to scholarship at Wake Forest and then the expected pro tour success that almost always came to those golfers.

His winning streak was broken in he came in fourth.  My partner and I were third.

The article was about him coming in 4th!  The winner MAYBE got mentioned as a sidenote. Yours truly with a great performance with his partner for 3rd never were mentioned.  2nd place fell off the map also!

I understand! We are still waiting for our headline...local full time employees lick college wonderboy!...Still waiting!...and waiting!  I understand!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


So now it comes out. You are trying live out your fantasies by jumping on Musthare*'s bandwagen.

There is one person, you, who says Musthare* is accurate, and 5-10 that say he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, who should we believe?!?

If Musthare* really shot 5 900 series in 6 months, as he claimed, Why wouldn't he be able to adjust and at least make the cut at this tournament?!? So now you are making excuses as to why he didn;t bowl well here. And the more bowlers you list, the more you make this point. All those guys you listed, none have a 900 series do they? Not to my knowledge, yet Musthare* has 5?!? So you think he is that much better then all those guys you bowled with? I guess so from your quote. I bet thise guys will be wanting to talk to you come next league night.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: onerevaway on July 17, 2006, 08:50:58 PM
hey luckylefty he was minus 256 and cut was 162 thats almost a hundred pins he didnt miss cut by 6 it was a lot more than that!! his game needs work that is for sure but not all of us are saying he has a bad game he just proved to everyone he does not have the ability to shoot 900!! mental game sucks spare game sucks and he is very innacurate!! i guess when u prebowl at ur house when no one is around there is no pressure and no one to see u cheat so i guess everything i said before doesnt apply to pre bowling haha!!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 17, 2006, 11:43:42 PM
Ahhh...I said the local guys CAN shoot 900!

REad closer.  

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I believe many 900s have NOT been shot...because the players did not believe they could do it and STOPPED themselves!
PPS regarding fantasizing...I don't have too!  I've had my day in the sun in a couple of sports...luckily for me...I have witnesses! For some strange reason I don't think I'm done...but I could be.  And at one time cash in the banks from the little things I've had happen with very little talent to speak of.  Regarding my statements to DP3 regarding the coverage of the tournament and my interest in it only to see Robert Mushtare...my comments were only to recognize his valid complaints that the winner and top placers sometimes get overlooked if there is another angle the media (or fans)wants to see!  You see I'm a believer!  It is the force of the mind that can overcome even the strongest of bodies!

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: BallsDeep on July 18, 2006, 12:50:32 AM
If you get the first 2 300s in league and blow it in the third, I'll believe you.  I think Jeff Carter said it best.  He shot 878 with 2 300s and 278, however the 900 attempt was over in the 4th frame and thus he doesn't consider it close.  Perhaps it was that there was no pressure that he was able to shoot back to back 300s, but isn't that a huge barrier that is mutually held throughout bowlers and other athletes.  At times one can overcome the pressure and do something remarkable, but with such a feat, it may add more pressure to repeat that feat.  The other bowlers that shot 900 never reached that plateau again, and those other great performances were never equalled by those individuals again.


I feel as though your thinking of this as though it was a 300, that the first one is the hardest to get out of the way and then the next ones get progressively easier, but I'd have to argue the contrary.  With 300 and 800 the numbers have been reached and repeated by many that repetition is expected to a great deal and unless one hasn't shot an honor score in a while the pressure is releaved when shot.  The first 900 was shot and it was proven possible, then more were shot.  These additional 900s were 1 per bowler.  It is so difficult to carry 36 straight shots that that simple fact probably contributed to the reason multiple 900s were never shot and also the pressure of becoming the first to repeat must in and of itself be a great pressure.  

Your general argument is that Mushtare was such a great pressure bowler that he was immune to all pressures and just had to deal with hitting the pocket 36 times.  That he had enough confidence, area, and hitting power to carry 36 straight shots 5 times, in league play.  I'm sorry I can't believe it.  He has the same level of pressure that us mere mortals have.  I have no jealousy toward him, I just believe that he could not possibly have shot these scores.  I don't care how good or not good he is, he could be Ogrady, and I'd still have to say that its impossible.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]

How can you have any pudding if you've dirtied your feet?
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 18, 2006, 09:11:00 AM
The statistically improbable theory and the small shot venue versus big shot venue are failed logic.

They don't explain
Tom Doty Golfer
Bob Beamon Long jump(2 feet longer than he'd ever gone)
Jeff Rodgers (World record holder in Waterskiing after one year competing...failed at first in national level tourney's became world champ).
Billy Dunk..golfer who set scoring records all over Australia but won very few tournies!  Often Nicklaus in the field.

Wait till you hear results of Pete Weber/Mushtare match....things will get clearer.

I don't know them...that is just how I feel from what i have seen.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS what is the matter with the people above???  They don't know they are not suppossed to!  What is the MATTER With them!!!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 18, 2006, 10:14:55 AM
Weird comments above???

You've heard it from the US team coach...it's just too hard for people to get their minds around it!

Oh...about those other guys in league...well Dennis P above...runnerup in the US senior open last year understands the differrence in a big game and his very refined splitting boards game!

Jeff Carter has tried to explain it to you.  He above in one of these forums has stated he doubts he could average what he did in his record setting year.
YET...he has improved in the venue he wants to conquer the pro tour!

Many who have been around the Pro golf tour have watched players games get smaller and professional or tour results improve!  Less dynamic and exposive  and tight condition success improve.
A great example would be Curtis Strange who's game got 3 times lees dynamic or explosive as he went from long hitting NCAA golf champion to missed the cut bomb out at PGA tour qualifying school to straight hitting multi US open champ!

YOu guys just don't get it!

YOu act as though Walter Ray Williams would have a high probablility of shooting 900...and if you watch and understand you would realize ...highly unlikely!  Clearly a great bowler no doubt!  900 potential very low.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS PBA tour star Steve Wilson is great...and yet...I am not sure he has ever averaged in the 230s on a league condition for a whole season!  Many have and yet Steve has gone out ot the tour and won his share with less high scoring potential on league conditions than many from the same area. (I also believe that if not so commited to his important family life he could be a mega star on tour...)  He understands the difference on the tour...the guys who average 240 in the area who cannot transition don't understand it or don't have the same desire!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 18, 2006, 11:50:52 AM
quote:
Weird comments above???

You've heard it from the US team coach...it's just too hard for people to get their minds around it!

Oh...about those other guys in league...well Dennis P above...runnerup in the US senior open last year understands the differrence in a big game and his very refined splitting boards game!

Jeff Carter has tried to explain it to you.  He above in one of these forums has stated he doubts he could average what he did in his record setting year.
YET...he has improved in the venue he wants to conquer the pro tour!

Many who have been around the Pro golf tour have watched players games get smaller and professional or tour results improve!  Less dynamic and exposive  and tight condition success improve.
A great example would be Curtis Strange who's game got 3 times lees dynamic or explosive as he went from long hitting NCAA golf champion to missed the cut bomb out at PGA tour qualifying school to straight hitting multi US open champ!

YOu guys just don't get it!

YOu act as though Walter Ray Williams would have a high probablility of shooting 900...and if you watch and understand you would realize ...highly unlikely!  Clearly a great bowler no doubt!  900 potential very low.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS PBA tour star Steve Wilson is great...and yet...I am not sure he has ever averaged in the 230s on a league condition for a whole season!  Many have and yet Steve has gone out ot the tour and won his share with less high scoring potential on league conditions than many from the same area. (I also believe that if not so commited to his important family life he could be a mega star on tour...)  He understands the difference on the tour...the guys who average 240 in the area who cannot transition don't understand it or don't have the same desire!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


Lefty, please, please come back to planet Earth.

Every example you give would hold weight if Musthare shot 1 900 series, maybe even 2. But he claims to have shot 5, 2 in practice and 3 in prebowl for league. Now if any of your golfer analogies,which don't translate to bowling at all by the way, were to be true, you'd have to find someone who shot 58 5 times at his local course. No one has claimed to have done that. If someone had and they missed the cut at their first junior tournament by the amount at which Musthare* did, and have many witnesses saying he couldn't hit a fairway consistently to save his life, which we do about Musthare* and his so-called accuracy, you'd question the legitimacy of his 58's. Because as you get nearer then end of a feat like that, the pressue builds, and if someone can hande that much pressure, participating in a tournament, no matter how tough the shot isn't any more pressure then you've already felt. Yet Musthare* couldn't even come close to making the cut.

There are many bowlers who you have said, look like they can shoot 900. But how many of them have done it? You never answered that question. Because the answer is zero. Yet Musthare* supposedly has shot 5......FIVE!!! So he is 5 times better then all those other bowlers that you say look like they can shoot 900? Somehow I don't think so, and if I were one of those bowlers you were mentioning, I'd make sure you knew about if I ever saw you again, because you are insulting them. And you are insulting us. If Pete Weber goes up there and loses, does that make he 900 series legitimate, No. It means maybe Pete had a bad day, it happens to everyone. If Pete wins, what does it prove, that a Professional can beat a 17 yr old? Big News. Nothing to gain from this for anyone, so not sure it is worth mentioning.

You have shown nothing that increases the chances of these scores being legitimate. In fact, the more you compare him to all these other great bowlers with no 900 series, you are making the case stronger that they are not. So maybe we should be thanking you for all your hard work in making these scores look even more phony.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: L33t on July 18, 2006, 11:56:43 AM
... do you think the team usa coaches would actually admit to the press that he doesnt throw that good of a ball?!?!? yea they might of said that he throws a good ball, but do you actaully think its true?... you must have not been watching the same person that everyone else was
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 18, 2006, 12:19:37 PM
and if Pete has a great day ...and loses?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I believe 58s on easy conditions in golf are something a real stick could do more than once in a year.   I believe MOE Norman had at least 5 o6 sub 60s in competition probably many more in practice rounds(did not actively play on US tour) There is no insult to the bowlers above...none.  Because Dennis Psarapoulous has told me many times that on certain conditions one can't stop a strapper.  Bob Hanson on this site has said so many a time also!  My friend and mentor Dave Davis has the type of game to maybe go win Junior Gold at age 60...thinks he can shoot 900...I don't think so!
PPS you are also dicounting the advantage of prebowling which someone above has mentioned and I believe is valid...significant advantage...allowed and shouldn't be.  But that is not Robert Mushtare's fault.
Again...a friend of mine arrived late and shot 36 in a row.  (five after end of bowling) I saw him do 30 in a row in league.  He threw a GREAT strike ball...not as dynamic as Mustare's.  He had a "I can do anything when HOT" attitude that was arrogant cocky and great to be around AND the reason he could do what he could do!  If I saw him right now he'd say...I could shoot 5 900s in  a year!

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 18, 2006, 12:23:40 PM
Ah, that explains it.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 18, 2006, 12:42:17 PM
Chad, had you believed enough you might have posted this

 
quote:


If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I

I might have to move heaven and earth to prove it to you baby
So we're making love and you feel the power and I feel the power
Then there's really nothing that we can't do if we wanted to baby
We could exist on the stars, it'd be so easy

All we gotta do is get a little faith in you
Oh, I've been so many places…I've seen some things
I know love is the answer
Keeps holding this world together
Ain't nothin' better
Ain't nothin' better
And all the answers to our prayers
Hell, it's the same everywhere, baby
Nothing ever breaks up the heart
Only tears give you away

Then you're right where I found ya
With my arms around ya
Oh baby, baby, baby love is a magic word..yeah
Few ever find in a lifetime
But from that very first look in your eyes
I knew you and I had but one heart
Only our bodies were apart
That was so easy, so easy
I had a taste of the real world
When I went down on you girl

If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I

I can hear windmills and rainbows
whenever you're talkin to me
I feel like swirling and dancin
whenever you're walkin with me
You ripple like a river when I touch you
When I pluck your body like a string
When I start dancin inside ya
Oh baby, you make me wanna sing

Yeah baby, baby, baby, baby
Oh yeah, all right
Baby, we're sure doin it tonight
Everytime you come by let me try
Pretty please, sugar on it
That's how I like it
I can't even believe it with you
It's like having every dream I ever wanted come true
I picked up your vibes
You know it opened my eyes
But, I'm still dreamin…yeah
And you're right where I found ya
With my arms around ya

If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
So would I
So would I

If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
 

--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 18, 2006, 02:20:25 PM
a match on an open shot is coming!

That will make it all clear...I think!

stay tuned.

Ah, that explains it!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: baccala8872 on July 18, 2006, 02:43:44 PM
Just one (hopefully) funny random thought that just crept into my demented mind.  And "NO" Lucky, this is not a shot at you, so please don't take it as such.

But whenever I read Lucky's mega-enthusiastic, tofu-powered affirmations of what is possible, I keep thinking that I am reading an advertisement for a cheesy upcoming Doug Henning magic show.

For those who have no meaningful recollection of the Reagan years, just Google Doug Henning.
--------------------
"Enjoy every sandwich."
--a cancer-ridden Warren Zevon's reply to David Letterman's question of, "What have you learned from life?"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 18, 2006, 02:56:23 PM
I don't eat Tofu!

But I accomplish things others believe I can't or other people don't think can be done!

The people I associate with accomplish things they didn't find themselves capable of at one time either.  Sans Tofu.

Robert Mushtare's mother was nice enough to share with me "his vision" his realization he was going to do what he did!  It always happens that way!
I found her the salt of the earth and as honest and loving of her son as the day was long!

Again...I've put myself out here about 500 to 2!  Me and the USA Junior coach(not bad company).

In a few days a lot of you are going to be kissin my grits...or I'm going to be kissin quite a few grits!

I'd rather be you...in the herd...part of a group think .it's so easy to say...
"Statistically speaking...and you know what...you are right!"  Almost always!

BUT

Not this time!

I'll await the results of the upcoming match...that's the pudding in this case.

Pucker UP!  Kiss my...

REgards,

Luckylefty

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: KDawg77 on July 18, 2006, 02:58:46 PM
And what were you doing with Mushtare's mother? Trying to breed an army of neo-con super bowlers?!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 18, 2006, 03:06:30 PM
quote:
And what were you doing with Mushtare's mother? Trying to breed an army of neo-con super bowlers?!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!

I think he was trying to feel success.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 18, 2006, 03:48:53 PM
Lefty,
    Now you are just going off the deep end!! Musthare*'s mother believes him, WHAT A SHOCK!!!!! She thinks her son can do anything he sets his mind too, ANOTHER SHOCK!!!! If she said anything different, now that might be a shock.

This Pete Weber thing, which I haven't heard from anyone but you, is a joke. No matter what happens it doesn't prove a damn thing. Anybody can beat anybody on any given day, even if the other bowler bowls great. So either way no matter who wins it doesn't mean anything.

Now you are saying this other guy can shoot 5 900 series huh. How many does he have by the way? Im guessing zero, zilch, none, nada. Does that mean he isn't a great bowler, not in the least. But it shows the difficulty of this feat. Musthare*'s, even in practice and even with the prebowl advantage, claims are not legitimate. And no amount of faith and believing in yourself or what other hocus-pocus scientology bull you believe can make a stone 8 pin fall. It can't overcome a .5 mph speed difference one shot that leaves a stone 9 even though everything else was perfect. The reason their aren't more 900 series isn't because there aren't skilled bowlers out there, it because of the amount of luck it takes on top having that great skill. All it takes is one ball that overreacts unexpectedly, or the oil to carrydown further then expected one shot, or one of 100 other small minute things to happen that ruins what could have been a 900 series. And no one, NO ONE can control that, unless you are the almighty himself. So please stop with this new-age pyscho babble and try some reality for a change. I think you need it.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"

Edited on 7/18/2006 3:46 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 18, 2006, 03:55:42 PM
But Jorge, Mustary can adjust for the 10 pin he's about to leave before he leaves it.  (I hear he can also bend spoons with his mind).
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 18, 2006, 04:14:44 PM
Talking!  Nice person!
I have family from the same small town and high school!  Years and years ago!

REgards,

Luckylefty
I'm out on this subject until after the PDW /RM match...I've said everthing that I can think of!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 18, 2006, 04:17:15 PM
quote:
...I've said everthing that I can think of!



and more.....
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Lane1fanatic on July 18, 2006, 09:18:33 PM
Lefty,
  Yes I bowled gold, yes I saw Mush bowl and yes I did talk to him about his supposid 900s and it's all a load of crap. I asked him a great deal of questions on the subject and he continued to give me the look of regret. He knows he didn't shoot 900 and feels bad that he fooled the country. ESPN interviewed me about the subject so look out for it.

Steven
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: DP3 on July 18, 2006, 10:09:26 PM
It's actually going to be Tim Mack vs. Robert Mushtare.  


He doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell.  And Mack is only at about 75%.
--------------------
- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 19, 2006, 07:42:52 AM
quote:
Talking!  Nice person!
I have family from the same small town and high school!  Years and years ago!

REgards,

Luckylefty
I'm out on this subject until after the PDW /RM match...I've said everthing that I can think of!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


So since you have no good answers for my post, your just going to leave, huh.

And if it is Tim Mack, Musthare* should not take him lightly. I bowled with Tim in college and he is an incredbile bowler, it's a shame injuries have limited him in the past few years.

And Lefty, why is this being held at Musthare*'s house?? If we really want to see how good this kid is, how about a match at a neutral site, with a real shot that neither has seen, maybe the BTM shot, 48 ft of oil, gutter to gutter, lets see who is the better bowler then.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 10:29:16 AM
OK...I was trying to stop...but you keep baiting me with your nonsensical posts.

I tried to stop.

You have a problem reading...seriously.

Friend above who bowled once a week for several years.
Did shoot 36 strikes in a row.  Started late...went 65 thru 5, then sheet, sheet, sheet, and then asked them to turn on the lanes and went the next 5 in front of a packed house.  Not a 900 but he claimed if he bowled more...he said he would do it!  I believed him.

I had also seen him throw 30 in a row and yes did get tapped on 31.  Not as dynamic a ball as Robert Mushtare!

Have also seen a wonderful bowler on a hot streak start 9 straight games in league with 9 straight strikes..  Though he did not close out any games despite having many 300 under his belt it was at that time I realized that 900 was certainly possible for SOME...if the mind was properly ready.  His wasn't.
Every miss he had in the 10th(I believe all the series hit 800).  Was some form of different shot than the previous 9!  We've all seen it!

The point is...shooting 900 is not about who is a better bowler on all conditions!  It is instead a combination 1.  Usually a pretty sweet shot
2. big carrying house 3. big carrying bowler 4. letting it happen.

Comments above also reference the improvement of a set that probably comes from prebowl.

I LOVE the conditions you have set up for Robby Mushtare to show his has the affinity to shoot a 900.  Either bowl great at JOG on a sport condition for the first time...or NO you didn't do it!

There are many bowlers who can bowl great on open conditions and struggle on tough conditions who shoot multiple big 800 sets!  There inadequecy on sport conditions is usually a matter of experience, ball drilling and comfort.
Also just as in golf there are the grinders and there are the soarers!

Some great golfers and great bowlers just have small but great games.
In golf...small game Tom Kite, big game John Daly.  John Daly does not usually do as well at a tight format course as Tom Kite.
In bowling small game Walter Ray, big game Wes Malott!  
Usually in the finals of the US open Walter RAy.

Other golfers also don't have the mental make up to be tournament winners all the time.  And yet some of the tournament winners do not have the makeup to set records.
An example of a record setter in golf...Billy Dunk from Australia, or Johnny Miller from the US.  Jack Nicklaus on the other hand set very few course records when playing in Golf and yet we all know that he was the greatest ever.

Could Jack Nicklaus set the course records that Johnny Miller could...it appeared not.  So we have to acknowledge Johnny Miller had a seperate and spectacular skill.  (However he had his tipping point....many felt that Johnny probably could have shot in the 50s almost 10 times in his career and yet would tighten up and miss an easy putt on 15 thru 18 to only shoot 60..or 61) .

The question is not whether Robert Mushtare is a better bowler.  We just had an example where on a tough grind it out condition 200 + bowlers were better than him.

The question again is does he have the ability to shoot 900 and does he have that special something that record breakers have...it is different skill often than tournament winners.

If you continue to answer the question only is he the best bowler in the world sadly you are going to constantly lead yourself to the only conclusion one can come up with!!  NO!

Your refusal to understand that by having a match with a high scoring top notch pro to show his legitimacy as a guy who likes to throw strikes on an easy condition can lead you to only one logical conclusion.  He couldn't do it!

But travelling down this faulty path of logic that only the top players can set records in a sport is to deny the existance of

Tom Doty lowest 9 hole score ever
Johnny Miller multiple scores under 62 in golf
Moe Norman multiple scores under 60 in competition in Canada but NOT the leading pro in the world
Norman Manley over 50 hole in ones in his golf career not even a pro golfer
Art Wall I still believe all time hole in one leader in golf and a very good pro but not Jack Nicklaus.
Bob Learn all time highest score on TV but not Walter Ray.
Jeff Carter setting the all time highest average record in bowling while Walter Ray is the best bowler in the World.

What is the matter with these record setters who think they can set records while not being the best in the world at their sport.

So the point is this...

NO one...not me!...
Is saying that Robert Musthare is the best bowler in the world(certainly not yet).  

What I am simply saying is the following.

He and his family appear honest!  
He throws a type of ball that looks very 900 possible!
The mindset to set records is different than the mindset to dominate the pro or amateur tours.
It is not necessary to be the best in the world to set records on easier formats.

Your denial of anyway for him to show that he has the capability for very high scoring on easy conditions is typical of a mindset that just doesn't want it to be so!  Why that is important to you or anyone I can't figure out.  These 900s are bringing interest and excitement to bowling!

So under the conditions you are trapped in and always will come back to...if Robert Mushtare doesn't instantly become the greatest bowler in the world on all conditions he therefore cannot set records you will always be right and trapped in your fallacious logical box.

The question is NOT...is Robert Mushtare the world's greatest bowler(and your thought that because I say he can set records and other bowlers probably can't is an insult show this trap you are in).

Tom Kite would never be insulted if someone said to him...hey a local kid shot 58 on a local 6700 yard course and then he shot 59 last week.  His response would be ..."Send him over to Pebble Beach and we'll have a match".  This doesn't answer the question of whether the kid shot 58 and 59 or if Tom Kite could shoot 58 on the 6700 course(I doubt he could).  He would not care and would value his money making skill of shooting 67s on difficult courses as proof of his value as a golfer.

As an example of a similar thing in bowling.  I could say to my acquaintance Dennis Psarapoulous in bowling..."hey a local guy shot 855 in the county just south of us do you have an 855"?  He would say..."Nope...but great...I'm going to the US senior Open and next week...I led by over 100 pins into the finals last year is he coming?"  He would NOT be insulted as he values his skill on difficult conditions over 855 shooting on easy conditions as it makes him money!  

Me I love scoring records type of guys...I think it is a neat skill!
I perceive it as different!  One thing I know from personal experience...in general it does not pay!  If I had my little world....Robert Mushtare would stay in Carthage and continue setting 900 records for the rest of his life on his wide open shot!  But inevitably we know this skill does not pay and is different from the skill that determines who is the best bowler!  

As a result just like Jeff Carter he will try to advance and change his game!
It will probably get a little less explosive.  Like Jeff says...he doubts he could average near his previous record if he went back and tried to pursue that record.  Instead he went out and made a commitment to changing his game to become a force on the PBA tour.  This has been a difficult transition but it looks like he has turned the corner and will become a great force out there.

Whether Robert Mushtare advances and makes changes to bowl on all conditions is unknown.  Probably just like Jeff says above his high scoring ability on OPEn shots will decrease with those changes.

AGAIN the question is not about who is the best bowler that is Walter Ray Williams and Tommy Jones.  The question is does Robert Mushtare have that type of game to shoot 900 on a wide open conditions.
And what forum can help us show that skill.  I believe a match on those same conditions could point us to the conclusion that this young man has some explosive capabilities for high scoring while at home!  

The other question is why you cannot get the difference in the two different sets of personal skills?  How can we explain the record setters above who were not the greatest winners in their sport in the world? Only by acknowledging that being best in the world and a record setter in your sport are two different items!  Why the record setters above don't get it is an interesting question also.  Why don't they understand they are not suppossed to set those records if they exist in your world?  Jorge?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I apologize to all who have read similar comments from me for over 6 months on this subject.
PPS please don't bring out the statistically improbable argument for me...it is tired and old and fallacious!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 11:09:17 AM
He started in the 3rd frame no practice..

No I'm lying?!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: rob_mil13 on July 19, 2006, 11:26:47 AM
I told myself I wasn't going to respond to anything related to the 900 topics, but I just have to throw my $.02 in: Obviously 900's are POSSIBLE - there are, what 11 of them sanctioned now? Lefty all your examples fail to answer the main question I have had about the whole situation: HOW COME THERE ARE NO WITNESSES TO HIS 900s?? And don't give me that some people have said they saw a couple of his shots - if it were me, and I had shot 1 900 prebowling that was rejected, then I shot another 900 pre-bowling that was being questioned, the next time I pre-bowl I'm going to make SURE I have a credible group of witnesses there with me watching EVERY shot so that if I have the opportunity to do it again I would have WITNESSES. By the way, 1 witness who happens to be a friend doesn't count in my eyes.

Is it possible that he's done it? Of course. Anything is possible. Do I believe it? Nope, sorry I don't. If he is such a celebrity at his home house having shot a 900 people would be lining up to watch him pre-bowl. Especially once he started running them.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: RadioActive on July 19, 2006, 12:00:23 PM
Lucky I think you are doing one of two things.

1) You are pulling our chains, making up wilder and wilder things and posting them.

2) You have not been taking your medication like you should.
--------------------
The man is back!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 19, 2006, 12:02:25 PM
Lefty,
   Id put your quote in here but it would take up a page and it's all BS anyway. Cut through all your babble and you still don't answer the questions.

What good will it do for Tim Mack or Pete Weber to bowl him at his house? No matter what happens it won't mena anything. Why is it that 5 other people posted the Robert was spraying the ball, and you are the only one that says he is accurate. The only taped footage of him, the local news footage, shows this including a very nice brooklyn strike in this supposedly walled house. And if he gets that nervous with a local camera crew, how could he have held it together to through 5 900 series?

Now before you twist what I say again, I never said you said Musthare* was the greatest bowler ever. You mentioned bowlers from your past that you say could have shot 900 series, they have the "look", whetever the hell that is. And Iasked how many did these bowlers have, your non-response proves that my guess of zero is correct. Now is 900 possible, yes it has been sanctioned 9 times, and a few more that should have been, i.e. Glenn Allison. But all these bowlers who you say have the ball to do it, couldn't. So Musthare* must have more mental prowess then them? I highly doubt it.

And his family being nice has nothing to do with whether the scores are legitimate. And of course they were nice to you, you are one of the 5 people on planet earth that actually think these scores are legitimate.

So now if you want to debate some facts, I'll be glad to. If you want to ramble on for 57 pages again about absolutely nothing, go ahead. But in all honesty, the more you talk the more you make my point for me, so I say ramble on.


--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 19, 2006, 12:03:16 PM
quote:
Lucky I think you are doing one of two things.

1) You are pulling our chains, making up wilder and wilder things and posting them.

2) You have not been taking your medication like you should.
--------------------
The man is back!


I definately think it's number 2!!
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 12:26:39 PM
Jorge,

Your thinking has you trapped in a box!

Thinking that record setting ability and championship ability on a tough shot are the same thing.

I've laid out the case for you that they are not!

You have not refuted one thing I have said nor debated it at all.

You are trapped in a small box called...."only the best winners at any sport can set records".  Sorry ...wrong.  Or another small box stating "that performance on a tight condition relates to performance on a wide open condition...Wrong!"

You've never thrown a brookln?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS the fact is you are a closed mind and will never believe he did it unless you sat there and watched him do it in front of you.  There is nothing he could do to prove he did it in your mind except come out and win the US open this year!  Name the thing he could do to prove it?...of course you can't because there is nothing!  Or now that he has not won JOG in his first try on a sport condition there is nothing he could do to prove it.  I maintain EVEN If he won JOG you would have been sketical still!
PPS...Want to debate..address the issue of non world champion record setters.  Explain the record setters above...let's even reduce it to 1.
MOE Norman in golf...why wasn't he Jack Nicklaus????  HOw could he do what Jack Nicklaus NEVER did???  Moe Norman exists: he is not a figment of my imagination.  Once you acknowledge his existence you now acknowledge the existence of non world champion record setters.  Game set and match...over!
They exist!  In your world...they can't...you must deny their existence.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 19, 2006, 12:31:58 PM
LL, I've thrown lots of Brooklyns; also a number of Jersey Squashers.  But then I cannot adjust, on the fly, to the 10 pin that Im about to leave.  Musthare claims to do that, so I'm sure he would never cross over.  

I do agree with you on one thing - asking him to replicate his "feat" on a tough condition isn't fair.  I ask that he replicate it on any other easy condition than his own house, with folks watching.  And don't give me that crud about going to his house and trying it myself.  You know that's bait and switch, so lay off it.  Heck, I don't even ask that he shoot 900.  I only ask that he go somewhere else, on a typical house crown, and shoot 300 twice in 12 games.  I'll give him  10 warm up games if he wants.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: calibowler on July 19, 2006, 12:46:49 PM
LL, are you RM's number one fan, because as far as I can tell, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE DEFENDING HIM!!.. And for what.. why are you fighting his battles for him...?  You said you didn't really get a chance to see other bowlers, but yet, you sit here and say you wanna see a match between RM and O'Grady...? HA HA HA... sorry man, but O'Grady would rip him to shreds... no doubt... and why BEFORE the competition... why not now... cuz you know he's a joke... and you said you saw him bowl, and you didnt see a lot of inaccuracy?? Then why did he NOT make the first cut?? Dont give me that "he said he couldnt find a line" bull... because im sorry, if you're that good of a bowler, YOU CAN FIND ANYTHING... SO....


I think this is wasting everyone's time about this kid... A. there is nothing we can do. B. He's gonna be a one hit wonder....


Another note.. I want to say good luck to everyone going to Germany... Bring home some gold...

Laters
--------------------
Karen Rosprim

"You only wish you were as good as me"

Edited on 7/19/2006 12:43 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 19, 2006, 01:19:08 PM
quote:
Jorge,

Your thinking has you trapped in a box!

Thinking that record setting ability and championship ability on a tough shot are the same thing.

I've laid out the case for you that they are not!

You have not refuted one thing I have said nor debated it at all.

You are trapped in a small box called...."only the best winners at any sport can set records".  Sorry ...wrong.  Or another small box stating "that performance on a tight condition relates to performance on a wide open condition...Wrong!"

You've never thrown a brookln?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS the fact is you are a closed mind and will never believe he did it unless you sat there and watched him do it in front of you.  There is nothing he could do to prove he did it in your mind except come out and win the US open this year!  Name the thing he could do to prove it?...of course you can't because there is nothing!  Or now that he has not won JOG in his first try on a sport condition there is nothing he could do to prove it.  I maintain EVEN If he won JOG you would have been sketical still!
PPS...Want to debate..address the issue of non world champion record setters.  Explain the record setters above...let's even reduce it to 1.
MOE Norman in golf...why wasn't he Jack Nicklaus????  HOw could he do what Jack Nicklaus NEVER did???  Moe Norman exists: he is not a figment of my imagination.  Once you acknowledge his existence you now acknowledge the existence of non world champion record setters.  Game set and match...over!
They exist!  In your world...they can't...you must deny their existence.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


I think it's time to up the dosages Lefty.

How is it that people YOU said can shoot 900 but haven't, this is your words not mine, are now the best bowlers in the world and I'm comparing apples to oranges. You said these guys have the ability to do it, yet no one of them has a sanctioned 900 series. So if you follow your logic from the quote above, then Musthare* should have any either?!? Small minded, hello Pot im kettle.  I never said anyone had to be world champion to set a record. Im going by what you said. Now that I have proven you wrong, you twist it into this garbage above. And if you read the posts, I have refuted everything you said, well everything that was stated coherently. Im taking your examples, based on your earlier quotes. Now are you saying you were wrong about these guys? maybe they aren't good enough or have the physical game to shoot 900 as you have said? or do things work differently for Musthare*? Maybe he has the FORCE and can control 10 pins and 8 pins with his Jedi Mind power? LOL. You are a joke.

What would prove to me he did it, One of two things: 1) Produce an unbiased witness ( not a friend, relative, or center worker) that saw him throw these games or 2) have Robert* and every witness take a polygraph test with an impartial and documented observer and see if they all pass. If any one of them fail, then it should be thrown out, if they all pass, I will believe they occurred. THose are the only ways I will believe it. He can roll matches against Pete Weber, Tim Mack, Walter Ray, or whoever you want. The outcome doesn't prove a thing, no matter who wins.

Lastly, Moe Norman exists, so what, golf and bowling are two different disicplines (sp) and they don't correlate. So for his sake, I hope he exists, lol.
Nice spelling by the way, lol, joke!
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 02:05:37 PM
You've only proven one thing to me.

That you have self limiting thinking!

I gave a list of about 6 bowlers.  One half who have the talent of winning at the highest levels of the game.  The other half I believed more likely to throw 900s.  I seperated for you what I believed were the different talents.

I related that one of them who bowled very little had 36 in a row.  Half a game after the set.  If his goal had been to chase after this non income producing goal..I'm sure he could have done it!

In golf I have knowledge of golfers who's talent WAS breaking 60 for 18 holes and shooting scores under 27 for 9 holes on easier courses.  Yet for the fact this is a non income producing talent!  So they move on and stop doing it!

JOKE...are you kidding me..?

I do have a profile.

I have been fortunate enough to have experiences in other sports that are near Mustarian!  Luckily and I mean it that,  I have written witnesses.  I have had a little fortune in bowling also...oh bowling with a completely uncoordinated hand due to a long term injury.  Ask 1800 other bowlers what they saw me do under pressure and most of em knew they were better than me!  How did I do that?

AS a competitor I personally know ...record setting, winning, and large money winning...more than once and in more than one sport!  By the way I classify each of those items as seperate mental skills.  Others do not and this is their problem.

I assure you the people who have seen my meager talents accomplish what I have
know that I am no joke...great bowler...no(actually sort of a joke NOW), but accomplishments versus talent...I'll be proud to compare with many!

Those that know me that the thing that stands out in these success periods(I have many failures also) is one thing!  Raw unguided belief and little else!  That when hot...I will not stop!  When cold...send me home!

This is the thing that maybe amazes me the most about the complete Mushtare saga.  Is that where it should be an inspiring to others that they should be able to do it! (especially the 840 and up club) they have spent their time decrying the scoring, moaning about easy scoring conditions and in general convincing themselves that it can't be done(and I believe in particular that THEY can't do it).  A sort of self loathing that is rampant in our country today.

You JORGE would be the leading proponent.  Your talent appears to be high from your profile!  What wonderful bowling accomplishments.  I wonder with a simple switch in thinking from..."statistically it can't be done".

To "I like my form better...I should be able to do it" how much that would benefit you.  Instead an onward bleating on it "it can't be done, it can't be done, it can't be done" only solidifies that thinking in your mind...restricting your future performance.

How sad the state of bowling that where other sports once mental barriers are broken the sport as a whole advances to the next level of accomplishment.  Bowling as a reflection of it's participants instead takes this accomplishment and tries to denigrate it and disprove it and mentally prove to themselves it can't be done.  Leaving the participants as a whole...worse off than the were before the event.  Not only this accomplishment but Jeff Carter's average record while not questioned for veracity left bowlers in a self loathing mode.
"Scoring is too high, the sport is losing it's integrity, when I was a kid 200 was a great score..."  Yuuch!
 
Contrast even with weightlifting...the 500 pound record followed by 60 some men breaking the same record in the next 12 month period after years of being stuck at 499.  Or the 4 minute mile record!  Followed immediately by a plethora of fellow record breakers...a new mindset was created.

Yes, Jorge...you are a product of the bowling mentality.  The mentality that is the most negative of the sports I have been involved in!

You have thoroughly convinced me that 900 cannot be done except by the greatest bowlers in the game.  

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS ask the multi regional champ I am friends with and described what I saw of the bowling mentality compared to other sports where people have more socio economic success as what he thinks of me as a joke.  As we have progressed together his average I believe has progressed from 219 to somewhere in the low 240s or high 239s in the same house.  All through changing his mental switch!
20 pins...."it can't be done, lefties have an advantage, it can't be done, lefties have an advantage" to "I can do it", "if it can be done, I AM the one to do it".
PPS thanks for the spelling comments...I love your paragraph structure too!
PPPS oh yeah here comes the tired only statistical argument...yawn!

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/19/2006 2:22 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: baccala8872 on July 19, 2006, 02:07:11 PM
Hey Jorge,

You know, once I bowled in the 3-game pro-am where a different pro would come to your pair and bowl on your "team", I beat Mike Aulby, Ryan Shafer and David Ozio in each game that they came to my lane.

Think I'm ready for a 900?  Maybe Lucky thinks I am.

You know what, I think I am ready for that next step.  Yes, THAT next step.  I have thought about it long and hard and I am beginning to change my tune.  I'm sorry to be changing my mindset mid-stream here and waver like this, but I'm afraid it's true.  I am actually seeing Lucky's side here.  Darnit!!  I hate to admit I'm wrong!!!

I have been thinking all day about this.  I believe that it can come true.  I believe that it is possible since I have put myself in the frame of mind that this can happen.  So, without further ado, here goes........................

[Cue dreamy music]........Today, when I leave work, I am going to head home for a round of golf, and my wife will not give me a word of grief about leaving her at home with a 3-week old infant and 2 dogs until 8:30pm.  Then, when I come in the door at home, I will be met by Jessica Alba wearing nothing but my Peyton Manning jersey and some nail polish, and we will share a gourmet meal cooked by my wife, who really can't cook a lick.  Next, I will go downstairs to the basement where Scarlett Johanssen, the PussyCat Dolls, and Beatrice Arthur will all be waiting for me to play strip billiards.  Then, we will all snuggle on the couch and watch the documentary about the guy hanging out in the woods with the bears.  And at the end when he gets torn to shreds, we will all laugh uncontrollably.  For dessert, we will all go out for Italian ices with Yogi Bear, Guppy Troup, and the lead singer from Simply Red.  As soon as we order, David Hasselhoff will emerge from the back of the store and treat us to the newest single off of his new compilation of love songs, titled "Call me
(K)night Rider".

I'll write tomorrow to let you know if since I thought this, it will assuredly come true, since I stepped out of my little box and through the door of what's possible.

--Chris
--------------------
"Enjoy every sandwich."
--a cancer-ridden Warren Zevon's reply to David Letterman's question of, "What have you learned from life?"

Edited on 7/19/2006 2:23 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 02:31:35 PM
Uncool

False!

I believe he did it!  I feel bad for the state of bowling that we cannot advance into success oriented thinking that this should ignite!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS  If Robert Mushtare's strike ball is rated a 10 in striking power,,,I am a 3.5 maybe!  If I could just get to what I believe is a 6...I'd like to make a stab at it too!  I love and admire that mind set that makes these types of things happen!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 19, 2006, 02:52:27 PM
quote:
Hey Jorge,

You know, once I bowled in the 3-game pro-am where a different pro would come to your pair and bowl on your "team", I beat Mike Aulby, Ryan Shafer and David Ozio in each game that they came to my lane.

Think I'm ready for a 900?  Maybe Lucky thinks I am.

You know what, I think I am ready for that next step.  Yes, THAT next step.  I have thought about it long and hard and I am beginning to change my tune.  I'm sorry to be changing my mindset mid-stream here and waver like this, but I'm afraid it's true.  I am actually seeing Lucky's side here.  Darnit!!  I hate to admit I'm wrong!!!

I have been thinking all day about this.  I believe that it can come true.  I believe that it is possible since I have put myself in the frame of mind that this can happen.  So, without further ado, here goes........................

[Cue dreamy music]........Today, when I leave work, I am going to head home for a round of golf, and my wife will not give me a word of grief about leaving her at home with a 3-week old infant and 2 dogs until 8:30pm.  Then, when I come in the door at home, I will be met by Jessica Alba wearing nothing but my Peyton Manning jersey and some nail polish, and we will share a gourmet meal cooked by my wife, who really can't cook a lick.  Next, I will go downstairs to the basement where Scarlett Johanssen, the PussyCat Dolls, and Beatrice Arthur will all be waiting for me to play strip billiards.  Then, we will all snuggle on the couch and watch the documentary about the guy hanging out in the woods with the bears.  And at the end when he gets torn to shreds, we will all laugh uncontrollably.  For dessert, we will all go out for Italian ices with Yogi Bear, Guppy Troup, and the lead singer from Simply Red.  As soon as we order, David Hasselhoff will emerge from the back of the store and treat us to the newest single off of his new compilation of love songs, titled "Call me
(K)night Rider".

I'll write tomorrow to let you know if since I thought this, it will assuredly come true, since I stepped out of my little box and through the door of what's possible.

--Chris
--------------------
"Enjoy every sandwich."
--a cancer-ridden Warren Zevon's reply to David Letterman's question of, "What have you learned from life?"

Edited on 7/19/2006 2:23 PM


Chris, I wish you luck!! When you are done send Jessica over to my house will ya, I've been thinking it would happen for the last 2 years, but she always sems to get lost.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: No Fear on July 19, 2006, 02:59:43 PM
"Either way I'm so over this kid. Let it go, move on it's over"...LL this is Your Quote From a few days back.....PLEASE take Your own advice!!!!..In the last few days You have written volumes of pure garbage.....Do You have a job?...Get a life....Most children stop believing in the Easter Bunny when they are 5....When this "Bowling Fraud" is exposed....And He will be in time....You will probably still defend Him....WHY???
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 19, 2006, 03:05:32 PM
quote:
You've only proven one thing to me.

That you have self limiting thinking!

I gave a list of about 6 bowlers.  One half who have the talent of winning at the highest levels of the game.  The other half I believed more likely to throw 900s.  I seperated for you what I believed were the different talents.

I related that one of them who bowled very little had 36 in a row.  Half a game after the set.  If his goal had been to chase after this non income producing goal..I'm sure he could have done it!

In golf I have knowledge of golfers who's talent WAS breaking 60 for 18 holes and shooting scores under 27 for 9 holes on easier courses.  Yet for the fact this is a non income producing talent!  So they move on and stop doing it!

JOKE...are you kidding me..?

I do have a profile.

I have been fortunate enough to have experiences in other sports that are near Mustarian!  Luckily and I mean it that,  I have written witnesses.  I have had a little fortune in bowling also...oh bowling with a completely uncoordinated hand due to a long term injury.  Ask 1800 other bowlers what they saw me do under pressure and most of em knew they were better than me!  How did I do that?

AS a competitor I personally know ...record setting, winning, and large money winning...more than once and in more than one sport!  By the way I classify each of those items as seperate mental skills.  Others do not and this is their problem.

I assure you the people who have seen my meager talents accomplish what I have
know that I am no joke...great bowler...no(actually sort of a joke NOW), but accomplishments versus talent...I'll be proud to compare with many!

Those that know me that the thing that stands out in these success periods(I have many failures also) is one thing!  Raw unguided belief and little else!  That when hot...I will not stop!  When cold...send me home!

This is the thing that maybe amazes me the most about the complete Mushtare saga.  Is that where it should be an inspiring to others that they should be able to do it! (especially the 840 and up club) they have spent their time decrying the scoring, moaning about easy scoring conditions and in general convincing themselves that it can't be done(and I believe in particular that THEY can't do it).  A sort of self loathing that is rampant in our country today.

You JORGE would be the leading proponent.  Your talent appears to be high from your profile!  What wonderful bowling accomplishments.  I wonder with a simple switch in thinking from..."statistically it can't be done".

To "I like my form better...I should be able to do it" how much that would benefit you.  Instead an onward bleating on it "it can't be done, it can't be done, it can't be done" only solidifies that thinking in your mind...restricting your future performance.

How sad the state of bowling that where other sports once mental barriers are broken the sport as a whole advances to the next level of accomplishment.  Bowling as a reflection of it's participants instead takes this accomplishment and tries to denigrate it and disprove it and mentally prove to themselves it can't be done.  Leaving the participants as a whole...worse off than the were before the event.  Not only this accomplishment but Jeff Carter's average record while not questioned for veracity left bowlers in a self loathing mode.
"Scoring is too high, the sport is losing it's integrity, when I was a kid 200 was a great score..."  Yuuch!
 
Contrast even with weightlifting...the 500 pound record followed by 60 some men breaking the same record in the next 12 month period after years of being stuck at 499.  Or the 4 minute mile record!  Followed immediately by a plethora of fellow record breakers...a new mindset was created.

Yes, Jorge...you are a product of the bowling mentality.  The mentality that is the most negative of the sports I have been involved in!

You have thoroughly convinced me that 900 cannot be done except by the greatest bowlers in the game.  

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS ask the multi regional champ I am friends with and described what I saw of the bowling mentality compared to other sports where people have more socio economic success as what he thinks of me as a joke.  As we have progressed together his average I believe has progressed from 219 to somewhere in the low 240s or high 239s in the same house.  All through changing his mental switch!
20 pins...."it can't be done, lefties have an advantage, it can't be done, lefties have an advantage" to "I can do it", "if it can be done, I AM the one to do it".
PPS thanks for the spelling comments...I love your paragraph structure too!
PPPS oh yeah here comes the tired only statistical argument...yawn!

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/19/2006 2:22 PM


You're first line is the joke. I am not talking about your bowling ability, i would never put down one's ability. I am not even putting down Musthare*'s ability, im putting down the fact of what he is claiming.

Now again to my point that you seem to convienently overlooked. Of the half of those bowlers you say have the ability to throw a 900 series, how many have? My guess is none, 36 in row with half a game coming in practice is impressive, not a 900 though, lot less pressure on the last 6 which would have been the hardest in league, or even prebowl when sanctioning is on the line. So even these bowlers you claim to have the ability, none have a 900 series. Yet, Musthare*, with his limited experience, and documented difficulties in accuracy ( being accurate doesn't matter if it is a tournament or a house shot, the house shot you just don't have to be to score, and all the witnesses plus the tape show he isn't very accurate), he shot 5 of them, while your friends have none.

Where do you keep getting at big money bowlers vs house bowlers stuff. I haven't even mentioned anything about that. You twist others words around to avoid the true point. Same with all the golf stories. And if you are really using his name like that, then your accomplishments are ridiculed by the sports community at large, highly suspicious in nature, making their owner a laughing stock at his own expense. I certainly don't want anything I do to be Mustharian.

You know nothing of my bowling mentality. When I step into an alley, I know I am the one to beat, I am the best bowler that day in that house. And I bowl that way. Somedays I am right, somedays I am not. If I had to put my life on the line and pick someone to roll a strike in a 10th frame, im picking me. That's the mentality I have. I don't worry about 900's, 800's or 300's. I just want to be the best that night. Depending on the shot, that might be 550, might be 650, might be 750 or higher. As long as I beat my man and win my points and my team wins, I go home satisfied. Cause for most of us, this is still a team sport more then half the time. I want to win and for my team to win, and I will do whatever it takes for that to happen. And lefties have no advantage, In CA i bowled in a house that was supposedly lefty advantaged. All I did was lead the league in average by almost 5 pins at 230, so stick your mental game crap where the sun don't shine.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 03:13:16 PM
baccala...

I really do love that story...

I think your golf score would be the key element in your new way of life and also probably your wife's cooking could improve also with your improved outlook!
The rest of it...I like your choice in woman...they would be in my dream also!

On a serious note..we never give these thoughts ie unreasonable to people who don't have "it"!

In other words if working with a stroker we would not emphasize possibilities to shoot 868 or higher...  instead one would emphasize ability to shoot great scores on tight conditions.  Mentally challenging other grinders etc.

Only those with a potential of shooting 900 would that seed be planted.
There are very few.

A friend of mine last year probably had 55 279s or higher last year in practice, pot games, and league..no 300s.  No 800s.  Probably 40 the year before!

A strapper and a nervous guy looking for approval...I told him his style was perfect for our house and I was shocked at his low number of 300s and 800s! 0!
I asked him if he had thought about it...dreamed about it?

The next week his first 3 and then two weeks later his first 800.  And the first one in the house this year!  

I believe he now has about 5 300s and I think 2 to 3 800s.  In less than 1/2 of a season.

Ready for 900...not yet..so we don't tell him so!  Do I really think his nature will allow it...ummmm...not really!  But if we can get him to see the transitions in game 2 properly...maybe a slim chance.  If we can get him over the next hump re transitions and him seeing them.

Maybe we'll mention the possibility to him...but not yet!

One must have that talent and calmness to do it!  Of course a nice shot helps!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I've heard that Chris Barnes was given a dose of this medicine at the US open this year....results after???....was it $330,000?
PPS...it's starts with..."have you considered the possibilities of..."



--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 03:29:16 PM
Saw your funny comments over on another post on Mustare...

It only lowers you..those type of comments...

Here is a link from the past of Robert Mushtare.

NOT JUST OK!  (http://"http://wwnytv.net/72k/full-story.asp?uid=9061&area=sports")

I see no brooklyns...I didn't count but are there 8 strikes...all sweet..and I thought the ball was going about 10 to 5 pretty consistently.

Again what I saw at Junior Gold was a guy with probably the wrong drills standing the wrong place and hunting.  If my son had shot 3 900s he would not have gone unprepared to Junior Gold...I wish I had had the time to arrange for him to practice on the patterns at another center and get the right drillings for his explosive ball for the different patterns.  Clearly I felt as I always do when watching non buffed sport type patterns that ball reaction must be muted to make the patterns hittable.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS why are you holding him to another standard than other 900 shooters?  More than 1?!
PPS if my son were in the sport of bowling at that type of level and ready to shoot a second 900.  I'd tell him shoot it and then put a 0 in for the 36th ball...sad!  They'd see the correction and he could tell them...290!  Then everyone would want to be his friend!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/19/2006 6:24 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: ImaRedbird on July 19, 2006, 03:33:05 PM
I think like this: a person with talent and the mindframe can accomplish GREAT things, however, I don't whole-heartingly agree with that. I've had my hands at numerous 300's and i had confidence in myself that i could shoot them, and i strung front 10, back 10 etc, but i never got that 300, because of the ball jumping off the dry harsh, or hitting too hard and leaving a 10 or 7 pin, or ball reacting late, or any of the numerous reason. Point being said, getting a 300 is VERY VERY Rough and Hard, so for a 17,yr old, by the way he throws like crap from the video, to shoot 3 consecutive, i FIND THAT VERY HARD TO BELIEVE. A person can have all the confidence in the world and still not break 100.

Those scores to me are ludicrous.
No offense, but he's NOT  a Phenom in the making at all. Jus  an average or a bit above average bowler.
--------------------
Stop Crying, Shut Up and BOWL!!! Everybody throws  gutterballs back to back at one point in their life Getting Zero is an accomplishent that you should be proud of!!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: KDawg77 on July 19, 2006, 03:34:43 PM
Why the PS crap all the time? Just write it. We don't need a postscript.
--------------------
That's right. I said it!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 19, 2006, 03:45:46 PM
quote:
If my son had shot 3 900s he would not have gone unprepared to Junior Gold...I wish I had had the time to arrange for him to practice on the patterns at another center and get the right drillings


Well Mushtare seemingly did go unprepared - or  did  he?  Do you know?  
Mushtare stated in one of the interviews I've read from him, that he WAS PRACTICING ON THE JOG PATTERNS prior to the tourney.  
I also doubt that all of the 200+ (I think?) that finished ahead of him had "the right (aka  magic?) drillings".  Many of them were probably bowlers who could find a shot given the equipment they had.  But, again as you say, this has nothing to do  with his ability to shoot 900 on a wall.  I offer again my challenge.  let's get Mushy on a wall, at another house, with witnesses.  I'll eat crow if he can do that and shoot 2 300's in 12  games, with up to 10 games practice.  I feel quite  safe in telling the chef to leave the crow in the freezer.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: KDawg77 on July 19, 2006, 03:48:28 PM
Oh and P.S.

This one time at Band Camp, Robert Mustare stuck a flute in his bunghole and strangely enough played Beethoven's 9th Symphony. His dad was the only witness and his mother loved it as the day is long!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!

Edited on 7/19/2006 3:46 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 19, 2006, 03:49:58 PM
quote:
Oh and P.S.

This one time at Band Camp, Robert Mustare stuck a flute in his bunghole and strangely enough played Beethoven's Symphony. His dad was the only witness and his mother loved it as the day is long!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!


Even more impressive, he did it "inhaling."
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: KDawg77 on July 19, 2006, 03:51:22 PM
quote:
quote:
Oh and P.S.

This one time at Band Camp, Robert Mustare stuck a flute in his bunghole and strangely enough played Beethoven's Symphony. His dad was the only witness and his mother loved it as the day is long!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!


Even more impressive, he did it "inhaling."
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"


The only question I have is "How did he make 'Ode To Joy' so magical?"
--------------------
That's right. I said it!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: KDawg77 on July 19, 2006, 03:54:24 PM
Mike,

Go away, son. You're bothering the adults.
--------------------
That's right. I said it!

Edited on 7/19/2006 3:51 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 04:04:34 PM
why another house?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS there are claims out there of a 48 by an amateur golfer in chicago.  For a long time the lowest I had heard of was a 55 by Homero Blancas a one or two time tour winning pro!
PPS again you are confusing the ability to shoot low scores on easy conditions as being a quality of top pros...Tiger I believe has a 57 or 58 to his credit.
I am not sure he would be the person I would expect to shoot the lowest score on an easier course!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 19, 2006, 04:07:32 PM
quote:
Saw your funny comments over on another post on Mustare...

It only lowers you..those type of comments...

Here is a link from the past of Robert Mushtare.

Not JUST OK!  (http://"http://www.bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=11973&f=1")

I see no brooklyns...I didn't count but are there 8 strikes...all sweet..and I thought the ball was going about 10 to 5 pretty consistently.

Again what I saw at Junior Gold was a guy with probably the wrong drills standing the wrong place and hunting.  If my son had shot 3 900s he would not have gone unprepared to Junior Gold...I wish I had had the time to arrange for him to practice on the patterns at another center and get the right drillings for his explosive ball for the different patterns.  Clearly I felt as I always do when watching non buffed sport type patterns that ball reaction must be muted to make the patterns hittable.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS why are you holding him to another standard than other 900 shooters?  More than 1?!
PPS if my son were in the sport of bowling at that type of level and ready to shoot a second 900.  I'd tell him shoot it and then put a 0 in for the 36th ball...sad!  They'd see the correction and he could tell them...290!  Then everyone would want to be his friend!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


I clicked on the link, no video. Still the only video is the local news, and the post of unbiased witnesses that say he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Now, playing the wrong line, with the wrong ball drilling doesn't excuse the fact that he isn't accurate!! He could be playing the lanes wrong all day, but does he hit his mark consistently. From what all the unbiased witnesses said, he couldn't, especially on his spares. He may have a great ball, a lot of bowlers do, and he may have the Jedi Mind Power you credit him with, others do as well. But if he can't hit his mark consistently, even on a wall, these scores are even less believable. If he claims he can move before he leaves a 10 pin, then misses his mark by 3-4 boards, guess what, you just might leave a 10 pin anyway, or it gets to the dry a little too early and bang, a 9 pin. His skill level from witnesses and from video don't match up with what is needed to acheive what he is saying he did. I actually believe he shot a 900 series, the first one that was declined due to sanctioning. I think he had the luck of the gods on his side and he did it. Then when it was declined because (now this is what I read, I will freely admit I don't know it's true) his mother was league secretary and didn't send in the sanctioning for him and the league in time. SO because of her error, other adults got together and decided to help him get another one. Then while waiting for that one to be approved, the USBC almost passed a bill saying it would not honor prebowling scores when alone. So when it looked like that would pass, his friend Jaime Grimm bowled with him and jsut so happened to shoot his very first 300 while he shot 900 number 3. Again adults way of making things right, then low and behold, the legislation fails, now he's got 2 series and they are both approved. Now all the stories keep coming out, the 288 LH with a house ball in sneakers (although if you losten to his Dad it was 11 in a row, can't even get their lies straight), etc. Then the story of 2 more in practice come out, why didn't they mention it after the first one or the second, only  after the third, trying to make it sound more believable. All the while, they are making it more and more unbelievable. Why? Cause it is impossible, no, although as a Math major, I am a little insulted in your dismissal of statistical improbabability, I took the course, it is 100% real thank you. The real reason why is his game doesn't match up to what they are saying. So there is my take on it, I can't take credit for it, it was originally posted on bowl.ocm by Becks03, but I tend to agree with it's premise.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 06:50:50 PM
I've fixed the link to the newcasters!

Click on their faces!

If there is a brooklyn there I didn't see it!
I thought he was swinging 12 to 6 on this clip over and over!

At the tourney though his finish was much more posed deep and stuck!

On the second day I believe he had finally found a ball to work but was playing too shallow.  He adjusted by amping up his speed and revs considerably and was using an open handed finish!  It was not the answer but an impressive display of bowling power unfortunately I thought from the wrong spot!

UNBIASED observer...what is that???  There are those who say he did and those who say he didn't!  There are few on neither side!

The closest I can imagine to unbiased would be coach Rod Ross...what is his bias again?...Mushtare is not on the team is he?

His quote again.
From the article...Mustare fails to make cut at bowl.com

Among those who had a chance to watch Mushtare during qualifying was Junior Team USA head coach Rod Ross.

"I was very impressed with his physical game," Ross said. "He throws a phenomenal ball and has a nice loose arm swing. He has a lot of raw talent. He can definitely strike and strike a lot, and there's no doubt in my mind that he shot those 900s."

Also I question what is accuracy?  Hitting the pocket...or hitting the breakpoint you are aiming at?  Using the wrong match ups and constantly moving can make to the casual observer like you are missing...when in fact you are fishing and missing the proper break point but hitting what you are aiming at.

Also on sport condition spares...anyone can look like a fool on those using a hook ball...they ARE tough!  I saw hundreds of fools the day I was there and hundreds of scores that looked a lot like this...13x.

I am glad to see Jorge that you are starting to acknowledge the possibility of at least one 900!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I eagerly await the Tim Mack/Robert Mushtare match.  Which I think will show he has an ability to tear up a league crown with the best of em!  Two that he is a very well composed young man for his age!  3. that he throws one of the most dynamic strike balls in America today...as does Tim Mack.  4. when dialed into a shot with the right balls I believe he will show a high degree of accuracy given his speed loft and power!  When I was in Tamarac florida I heard gasps from the crowd on some of his high powered shots...almost like being at a long drive contest!  Fun!  Like bowling with or against Jimmy Keeth in league!
whoosh!
It should be a fun and great match with I hope high scoring by both!




--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: DP3 on July 19, 2006, 11:24:41 PM
If there's one thing I got out of this entire thread is that ballreviews.com now has an official laughing stock.

....and it ain't Mushtare.
--------------------
- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 19, 2006, 11:55:27 PM
The count is 500 to 2.  It's easy to be in the majority.

After this exciting match with Tim Mack are you prepared...to kiss my ....?
If it ends up 785 for Mack and 767 for Mustare I'm sticking to my position.
If it ends up 800 for Mushtare and 640 for Mack...well I don't know if I want my gluteus kissed that much!

If instead it is 805 for Mack and 560 for RM...well...I'll have to do some puckerin!  But based on what I saw in Florida...on a league crown shot he knows that has lively pins and sidewalls...can the kid shoot under 700?  HOW?
 
REgards,

Luckylefty
PS DP3 I respect your opinion on many things...but we disagree on this one...that's clear.  Tim Mack is a great and very experienced bowler...It's the perfect answer to what we've all been waiting for...someone to find their keys!
Now ESPN probably thru the magic of cash has helped someone find the keys and he is real good! And he is going to meet Robert Mushtare on his home turf where I think he is REAL good and real comfortable!  Instead of being in foreign territory..he is in his element!

Have you ever heard of the match where Ray Floyd the major winner went to Lee Trevino's course say circa 1966 or 1967 or so and RAy was known as one of the best money players in the world.  Trevino won all the cash...Trevino was soon on tour!  This is a modern day equivalent of that...of course we don't know the outcome yet!  Though you do!
PPS...the point on Rod Ross and being favorable to Mushtare's technique(and he did NOT comment on accuracy).  IS why does he have a reason to be biased again???  I don't get that?
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 20, 2006, 07:14:30 AM
quote:
The count is 500 to 2.  It's easy to be in the majority.

After this exciting match with Tim Mack are you prepared...to kiss my ....?
If it ends up 785 for Mack and 767 for Mustare I'm sticking to my position.
If it ends up 800 for Mushtare and 640 for Mack...well I don't know if I want my gluteus kissed that much!

If instead it is 805 for Mack and 560 for RM...well...I'll have to do some puckerin!  But based on what I saw in Florida...on a league crown shot he knows that has lively pins and sidewalls...can the kid shoot under 700?  HOW?
 
REgards,

Luckylefty
PS DP3 I respect your opinion on many things...but we disagree on this one...that's clear.  Tim Mack is a great and very experienced bowler...It's the perfect answer to what we've all been waiting for...someone to find their keys!
Now ESPN probably thru the magic of cash has helped someone find the keys and he is real good! And he is going to meet Robert Mushtare on his home turf where I think he is REAL good and real comfortable!  Instead of being in foreign territory..he is in his element!

Have you ever heard of the match where Ray Floyd the major winner went to Lee Trevino's course say circa 1966 or 1967 or so and RAy was known as one of the best money players in the world.  Trevino won all the cash...Trevino was soon on tour!  This is a modern day equivalent of that...of course we don't know the outcome yet!  Though you do!
PPS...the point on Rod Ross and being favorable to Mushtare's technique(and he did NOT comment on accuracy).  IS why does he have a reason to be biased again???  I don't get that?
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


One question Lefty. If Musthare is as good as you say he is, why does this match have to be at his home house? If he is sooooooo good he can 5 900 series, why not go to a neutral house, one neither of them has seen? Then they both have to adjust and find the shot and see who's better. Doing this at Musthare*'s home house will not a damn thing, NOTHING!!

If Musthare* wins, will it improve his standing in the bowling community, no. He will still be a laughing stock and suspected cheater.
If Musthare* loses, then everyone that thinks he did it, will change their mind, i doubt it.
Plus besides you, I haven't heard a thing about this supposed match, and we all know how unbiased you are.

Coach Ross' comments show he has a bias towards him, if he didn't mention the 900's I might have put more stock into what he said. If he thinks he did it, then his comments are tainted by that.

And a few oohs and aahs, hell i can do that in league, got that last night, and I only had 918 for 4 on PBA regional pattern 2, nothing spectacular. So far all you have shown is he throws a powerful ball, so do 9000 other bowlers out there. If his mental approach is supposedly so good, why was it that it fails him when ever other people are around? Your statements are just incredbily ridiculous, and your support is weak at best. We should believe him cause his Mom is nice, OK. And after watching him for 1 day, you now know his entire mental makeup too. Maybe you should start your own Miss Cleo pyshic hotline then, since you can read peoples minds.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: BackToBasics on July 20, 2006, 08:32:03 AM
quote:
Have you ever heard of the match where Ray Floyd the major winner went to Lee Trevino's course say circa 1966 or 1967 or so and RAy was known as one of the best money players in the world. Trevino won all the cash...Trevino was soon on tour! This is a modern day equivalent of that...of course we don't know the outcome yet! Though you do!


This has got to be the worst comparison I think I've ever seen. Mushtare is now Lee Trevino when Mushtare couldn't make the cut at JOG????  I guess we will see him on tour this year.  It was bad enough with all the comparisons to records shot by past athletic greats...those who are suppose to break records.  And these records were single time records...not and 5 in 5 months (or whatever time frame).  How many 59s does David Duval have? Anika?  How many times did Wilt score 100 points?  You're reasoning makes no sense.

And using a quote from a Team USA Jr coach?  What is he suppose to say "Well, I've seen Robert's game and he really doesn't have the game to shoot 900".

I've bowled against Mack in college before he became really good.  I've bowled against him since then and he can strike with best of them and he can also hit the more challenging shots.  I've bowled with arguably one of the best strike ball throwers ever, Robert Smith.  However, Robert has the game to strike, to make Team USA, and to win a US Open.  I could quickly name at least a dozen other guys that can average 260 when needed but also can hit the more difficult shots because they have game.  Obviously they didn't have the so called "open only" shot and struggled on tougher shots.  They aren't separate and to argue otherwise is insulting to those great players.

If RM shot 1 900 there would be no speculation.  There would be complaints about how easy the shot was and his performance at JOG wouldn't have been an issue.  But 5???
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 20, 2006, 09:53:06 AM
quote:
quote:
Have you ever heard of the match where Ray Floyd the major winner went to Lee Trevino's course say circa 1966 or 1967 or so and RAy was known as one of the best money players in the world. Trevino won all the cash...Trevino was soon on tour! This is a modern day equivalent of that...of course we don't know the outcome yet! Though you do!


This has got to be the worst comparison I think I've ever seen. Mushtare is now Lee Trevino when Mushtare couldn't make the cut at JOG????  I guess we will see him on tour this year.  It was bad enough with all the comparisons to records shot by past athletic greats...those who are suppose to break records.  And these records were single time records...not and 5 in 5 months (or whatever time frame).  How many 59s does David Duval have? Anika?  How many times did Wilt score 100 points?  You're reasoning makes no sense.

And using a quote from a Team USA Jr coach?  What is he suppose to say "Well, I've seen Robert's game and he really doesn't have the game to shoot 900".

I've bowled against Mack in college before he became really good.  I've bowled against him since then and he can strike with best of them and he can also hit the more challenging shots.  I've bowled with arguably one of the best strike ball throwers ever, Robert Smith.  However, Robert has the game to strike, to make Team USA, and to win a US Open.  I could quickly name at least a dozen other guys that can average 260 when needed but also can hit the more difficult shots because they have game.  Obviously they didn't have the so called "open only" shot and struggled on tougher shots.  They aren't separate and to argue otherwise is insulting to those great players.

If RM shot 1 900 there would be no speculation.  There would be complaints about how easy the shot was and his performance at JOG wouldn't have been an issue.  But 5???


Hear Hear!!! Another who sees through the idiocy of Lefty's arguements.

Where did you go to school Achappy? Is this by chance Anthony Chapman from Maryland? If so, you might remember Jorge from Penn State.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: BackToBasics on July 20, 2006, 10:32:39 AM
quote:
Where did you go to school Achappy? Is this by chance Anthony Chapman from Maryland? If so, you might remember Jorge from Penn State.


What's up Jorge!  That be me!  Of course I remember you.
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2006, 10:47:52 AM
It generates MORE excitement because it will be filmed!

At the time Lee Trevino was not THE Lee Trevino, he was an unknown teaching pro slicer from Texas with a very very unusual swing that would have received from the ballreviews crew a ton of boos! if he had been a bowler.  It is still an action ...no one has copied!

We already know Robert Mushtare is not a well rounded bowler!

Anyone who thought he would go on a sport shot tournament and win it in advance or expect him to win...that is a joke!  He went thinking maybe he could average 200...but he made the statement he was there to learn!  Me I am a different person and would have made sure I was as fully prepared as possible...he on the other hand charged forward with basically little preparation!

REgarding 59s on the protour...those are under difficult conditions.  I'm sure David Duvall has others or could have others on easier conditions.

Regarding Annika...she is a proponent of Vision 54!  The idea that a perfect round of golf birdies all 18 holes!  She and they spend time focusing and concentrating on this goal!

However the environment that in general produces 900s I'm quite sure is usually not the toughest shot one can imagine!

I understand that if he only had one...or had three 890 series he would be everyones friend.  That is why I put the statement I did...he should have corrected last ball in his second one and put 0!  890!  His third one he should have corrected and put a 1 in last frame!

Then everyone would feel sorry for him!

Again...the reason Rod Ross IS biased?  (Not whether he is or not...but why...what benefit to him?)

Again...we have statements from those involved in college bowling above.
Jorge, ACchappy and DP3.  Not surprising at all.  My observation is that the complete organization and thinking of the participants is a group thing and very impressed with name recognition and ranking of tough shot performance as the primary indicator of performance!  

Analgous thinking in golf would be that only US open play counts!

Thankfully I am an outsider.  A guy who picked up a bowling ball for the second time in my life in my 40s with my non injured hand.  I immediately sensed a lot of thing about bowlers different from golfers.  Tremendous name recognition and deference.  He's got a name...I must roll over!  Tremendous resignation of righties to lefties!

Fortunately I stumbled into a house where for whatever reason there were greats there but to me they were just my friends and acquaintances and needling buddies.  Dave Davis, Steve Wilson, Dennis Psarapoulous, occassionally Marcia Kamrowski would come in from the ladies tour and occassionally Patrick Allen would come in and throw before he was Patrick Allen!

All were better than me!  But they showed me some things.  Some were my friends, some acquaintances some hecklers(maybe they helped the most)  And I realized they were human.  Some had favorite lines...some liked dry...some could really soar on their great days others were consistent...some could really kill oil...some had killer strike balls some had consistent strike balls.

They took a lot of my money...a couple of bucks at a time!  But all of a sudden once in a while the old crippled fox had a little money handed to him!  Sometimes if I won they'd all quit!  Lefty condition...he's lucky hmmmmm!

Soon I realized the pins didn't know if it was me or Dave Davis knocking em down...they only knew one thing....physics.  Soon I realized that just like golfers I had played with...many other mortals(not the group above)did not like the lead...loose armswing then "I'm in the lead...bam"...TIGHTIE!

I am no different than others!  But I decided I would change!

The point being...if one has the attitude expressed above.  

"Tim Mack versus Mustare"...Mack will kill em!  He's bowled all over the world I would be a victim too!  Take down! Instead in my mind to those pins know...only one thing...whether my ball is rolling right or not!  

Otherwise the attitude expressed above...sounds to me like unconditional surrender!

Robert Mushtare has some very nice physics in his ball roll and some great biomechanics goin on in his let go!  There are many others I'm aware of that!
Jimmy Keeth was on my league team for most of a year...it doesn't get much better than that.

Whether they become great bowlers or not is a matter of attitude, experience, adjustment to changing conditions etc.

I'm a great admirer of physics!  Not name recognition!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS immediately I will be jumped on for name dropping but my point is this...
Until one decides that on their day they can hang with ANYONE for a short time...surrender is at hand!  If Robert Mushtare thinks like that..(I don't think he does) he has lost, we don't even have to have the match with Tim MAck!
Anyway it is a waste of time as there are only the ways listed above for Jorge300 to believe Mushtares feats per above...call off the match...worthless!
PPS...one of the greatest qualities of champions versus non champions I've observed in any sport...I believe the champions are IRRATIONAL in their belief in themselves...their expectations are above their statistical average and reality.  Often they perform above their average performance at the end of the game...the end of the match etc.  The guy who falls off however as he approaches the 8th frame or the 16th hole with the lead says...."I'm way above my average...I can't keep doing this well!"  The only way anyone can shoot a 900 is with this same....IRRATIONAL thinking!

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 20, 2006, 11:54:33 AM
Lefty,
     How about giving us tonight winning lottery numbers for a few states? Since you seem to have some powers to see into others minds and stuff. You just know what Musthare* has going on in his head?!?

You get right to the end of sanity, then you fall back off. Physics is exactly what I'm talking about. All the bowlers you mentioned, I will throw in Anthony Chapman and Tim Mack, have great physics to their game. But none of them has thrown 5 900 series in 6 months have they? So what would make this kid so much different then these great bowlers? Mental attitude, i don't think so. Mr. Chapman was a star at Maryland and after. His mental game I am sure is as good as anyone's. Mr. Mack is coming back after doctors told him his career was over, how's that for some mental attitude. Yet neither of them have done what Musthare* is claiming. I would believe one of those two bowlers would do something like this before Musthare*.

And again I ask, if he has such a great mental attitude how come he could even sniff the cut at JOG? And by the way, you are wrong. In interviews Musthare claimed he was practicing on the sport shots used at JOG, so he wasn't going in blind. He had practice and should have been prepared. Yet, he faltered. Why? Physics - he could hit the same target consistently enough, even on his spares. Just in the post in this thread he missed 2 spares by throwing in the gutter, and one was a 3-6-10, so that is a big miss. Try again Lefty, this excuse for him doesn't fly either. So what's next? Aliens helped him do it!
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2006, 12:07:23 PM
I KNOW you are smarter than that!

I'm sure the type of competitor you are you can see your opponent...flinch, tighten up,  loosen up, anger...etc.  RIght?

Great english composition and can't see those things...come on now.

Consistency, ability to throw great on all conditions, winner,  what do those qualities have to do with setting records?  Nothing!

A friend of mine with one 700 to his credit saw me bowl in a finals for some money!  He KNEW he was better than me!  So the next Tuesday in league he shot 848!  WHA!  He told me later, "I saw what you did and I knew I could do something awesome too!".

Regarding sport shots and Robert Mushtare...I heard the statement tougher patterns???  Not copies of the patterns put out!  I saw...complete confusion regarding appropriate lane play...I can only report what I saw.

I did not see inaccuracy on strike balls.  I saw fishing and hunting!
Wrong drills...wrong break points...I've been there!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: SKIDSNAP on July 20, 2006, 12:12:48 PM
I read an infatuation.....  Robby up on a pedestal...... careful he's gonna break your heart......

You are going to the bank with a rubber check in your hand...

Enough metaphors....you know what I mean....

I know Jorge and achappy...and they know me
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 20, 2006, 01:50:28 PM
quote:
There are many others I'm aware of that!

What does this mean?  Have you left out words?  
LL, you might not (just maybe) have so much trouble getting anyone to agree with you if you would edit your prose (prolix as it is).  Half of what you write  isn't comprehensible to the outside world.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2006, 02:27:43 PM
eccchhh!

Many other bowlers have balls that look good on the lane...

Wow...and I was awake?!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: SKIDSNAP on July 20, 2006, 02:30:04 PM
Rosey Ruiz
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2006, 02:53:31 PM
She runs and bowls??

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: DP3 on July 20, 2006, 09:43:36 PM
quote:
I'm a great admirer of physics!  Not name recognition!

REgards,

Luckylefty



...and THIS is why none of us will ever be able to respect or take anything you say seriously.  What you've just done is take all credit from everyone in this sport who has ever put their life into a sport they loved and threw it out of the window because you have a mancrush on some kid who can hook a bowling ball and claims an outrageous feat with such a lack of evidence.

I had a ton of things lined up to say which totaled over 700 words but why bother with someone so thickheaded that rambles on like Abe Simpson about anything that he could compare to what the real story is only to try to make what you say seem insignificant.

Personally I don't care anymore because your opinions on this sport mean diddly squat to me.  Keep living in your fantasy land where you dream of a sport that is going to be taken over by two-handers, your "unfair to lefty" house condition in southern FL, and a million theories on bowling ball physics that are full of over-drama.  

So I say keep living through the success of others because that may be the only way you will feel complete as a person.  People like AChappy, Jorge300, the hundreds of kids who participate at Junior Gold every year aspiring to further their games to the professional level and the thousands of people that love this game for what it's worth and not for who's done what will continue to try to make a difference and further our great sport.  You can be that guy in the crowd at every PBA event with an autograph book in hand cause we need guys like you.  The ones that can live through the dreams of others without furthering their own.  But don't try to discredit the opinions of others who have actually done something worthwhile in this sport to further their own knowledge or pass it off to others just because you believe a Paul Bunyan'esque story of a stop-and-spray mountain man from the valley of Fort-Drum.



--------------------
- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game


Edited on 7/20/2006 9:55 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 20, 2006, 10:37:36 PM
DP...

I really don't get what you are trying to say.

I'm saying if you will step back and read what you have written you will see that you have a crush on anyone that rates...in college bowling!

If they are a big name as a college bowler...others might as well surrender.
YOU?

Old guys, new guys, outsiders(like myself never involved in the sport till age 43).  Looking at the sport from the perspective of how does it compare to golf(poorly in many ways) and how do the participants think compared to other sports.  Strangely!

I love the game!  I think it is neat.  I'm not an autograph seeker and at one time I loved to bowl head to head with some of the most impressive bowlers in the game.  Lose more than I win...sure!  But squeak a few...yep!

I really amazed at the group think you college bowlers and past college bowlers are trapped in!  I don't remember if Tommy Jones is a past college bowler!
I don't remember if Steve Wilson is a past college bowler!  I could find out but I'm lazy!

I recently heard from a friend of mine a former Shocker...he is appalled at my comments regarding this 900 situation!  I am not mad...nor am I surprised!  Group think!

"The world is round!!"

At one time statements like that above would lead to execution!

It didn't mean it was wrong it just meant that group think predominated!

My statement.

(PARTICULARLY with prebowling allowed for sanctioned scores)
"multiple 900s should be shot by many top bowlers"
(if they devoted much of their time to bowling on a crowned condition).

A statement on this website in the past from a well known and well respected coach.  "I'm surprised more 900s have not been shot...there should be many more than there are".

This is why Robert Mushtares feat on league conditions, with lively pins and sidewalls and while prebowling is not a shock to my system.  Particularly when combined with his lively ball!

I refuse to be "one of the pack".  Haven't usually been so!  Sorry.  If I was and I thought like other people...maybe some of the IRRATIONAL things I have accomplished in more than one sport would not be under my belt!  IF only I had been more rational and statistical in my analysis of myself then I could have accomplished similar things to others of my meager abilities...NOT MUCH!  I should have applied a statistical analysis to each shot before I threw it...knowing that I was way above my average and then more properly returned to my mean performance so that I could have been more consistent!  I should have known the backgrounds better of my opponents and known that they had regional runnerups finishes and I should surrender or maybe a pro tour title or too and it was time to go home..(but I liked my ball better that day).  What was I thinking!?

Again...the type of thinking that creates a Tiger Woods or a Jack Nicklaus...is IRRATIONAL...it exceeds statistics!  The thinking of a record setter such as Homero Blancas in shooting 55 on a golf course almost 40 years ago when he was NOT Jack Nicklaus...IRRATIONAL!!  What was he thinking.  He should have been a lot more famous before he did that!

Lee Trevino beating Ray Floyd when Ray Floyd was already a famous pro golfer.
What was he thinking!?  It is the IRRATIONAL belief of the participant combined with talent(usually) that leads to outstanding performance...under pressure...while setting records...or winning!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I also believe this controversy and the excitement generated is good for bowling!  It leads to coverage and air time!
PPS if the 900s had no controversy it would also be good for bowling...it would lead to more airtime.
PPPS high scoring excites the masses and makes them want to watch bowling and get out and bowl and become participants in the beautiful act of flinging the orb down the lane(the part I really love)!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: DP3 on July 20, 2006, 11:10:04 PM
quote:
DP...

I really don't get what you are trying to say.

I'm saying if you will step back and read what you have written you will see that you have a crush on anyone that rates...in college bowling!

If they are a big name as a college bowler...others might as well surrender.
YOU?

Old guys, new guys, outsiders(like myself never involved in the sport till age 43).  Looking at the sport from the perspective of how does it compare to golf(poorly in many ways) and how do the participants think compared to other sports.  Strangely!

I love the game!  I think it is neat.  I'm not an autograph seeker and at one time I loved to bowl head to head with some of the most impressive bowlers in the game.  Lose more than I win...sure!  But squeak a few...yep!

I really amazed at the group think you college bowlers and past college bowlers are trapped in!  I don't remember if Tommy Jones is a past college bowler!
I don't remember if Steve Wilson is a past college bowler!  I could find out but I'm lazy!

I recently heard from a friend of mine a former Shocker...he is appalled at my comments regarding this 900 situation!  I am not mad...nor am I surprised!  Group think!




Ok...this is my last response to all of your foolishness.

Why should I not give respect to any great collegiate bowler?  These are the guys that have proven themselves on difficult conditions nationwide as well as earned the highest rankings of amatuer success before the PBA Regional and National levels.  

You are privledged enough to be in the homestate of one of the best collegiate programs to come out in the history of the sport with Central Florida University.  And have you ever even attended a collegiate tournament or a national collegiate even to see what all the "hooplah" is about?  No you haven't.  What can you attest to in this game?  Watching 4 or 5 former pros light you up on your house shot and watching your boy-god Mushtare shoot a bunch of 170s and 180s on a Junior Gold pattern?  

College bowling is my JOB albeit my 2nd job but I am obligated to know the who's whos, what's whats, and ins and outs of the game on all different levels.  I am a collegiate coach and have even been asked to write articles in publications on the sport which I am really considering doing for the following season.  This isn't just some recreational activity, it's one of the hardest and physically/mentally challenging levels of bowling that anyone can attest to, even Professional Bowlers and Amatuers can attest to that.  Why shouldn't the people that excell at this level not recieve any outstanding notoriety?  Just because they haven't proven themself to "Lucky Lefty" master of all bowling physics and everything technical about the game, yet can't crack an egg amongst his peers?

All I can say is this.....How about you find me ONE just one person anywhere be it on this board or that you know that can agree with you and I'll shut my mouth and give you all the glory you and your wonderboy wants, or you can put your money where your mouth is and back your wonderboy Mushtare at any level of competition.  I'll glady draw from about 100 names of people 21 and under that would drill this kid on just about anything.

Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Mushtare, I even believe he has shot a 900, what I am questioning is the circumstances under which he shot it be it sanctioned or not and the shakiness or his attempts to verify 900s after the first one did not go through.  What I do have a problem with is people like you who thinks your word is gold and nothing else matters because you believe what you believe.

Lets see how well Mushtare does among the collegiate ranks when he goes out this upcoming season.  I'll definately know about it and will probaly see him regularly throughout the season.  I'll be more than happy to keep you updated, but I'm sure you'll do a good enough job yourself rubbernecking to see his accomplishments at any level.

How about a wager with odds on the Tim Mack/Mushtare match if it even happens?  Well have an over/under on scores as well as the match outcome(assuming everything happens) and we'll have a neutral party hold all monies in their paypal account until the outcome has been decided, then the money can be released.  Lets see how much faith you have in your wonderboy now.  Talk is cheap.
--------------------
- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2006, 03:51:31 AM
I've finally got it?:??

What college team did Earl Anthony bowl on?
Mark Roth?
Marshall Holman?
Randy Pederson?
Ameleto Monacelli!?

I've think I've got the idea figured out.

It wouldn't click...wouldn't click...wouldn't click.

It clicks.

It's a posse.  Junior Gold, College bowling.

It goes like this...and we are starting to hear it.
Many are starting to say...well he probably shot 1.

It's the others we have problems with.

I've said before he should have corrected to 0 in the second one on the 36th ball.
With correction showing and to 1 in the 3rd one on ball 36.

Then.....it would all be different.

I kept wondering...why is the free prebowl pass being given to Jeff Campbell...?
Then someone said...well....he is a tremendous COLLEGE bowler or was!  AHHHH!

SOOOOOOO!

I wonder if Mr. Campbell shot another one would he have been given another free pass?  Maybe...or sort of a half of a pass!

Me is starting to think it could go like this.  Given the mention and admiration of college bowlers...difficult conditions and the hierarchy and pecking order of same!

Robert Mushtare...maybe 1 prebowl free pass.
Ogrady and Jeff Campbell 2 prebowl free passes 900s.
Sean RAsh and Bill O'Neil 2 prebowl free passes and 1 practice 900
Time Mack 3 prebowl free passes and 1 practice 900.
Pete Weber 4 prebowl free passes
Tommy Jones 5 prebowl free passes and 1 practice 900.

Somethin like that!

I do understand the logic in it particularly if I was going to try to get in to college bowling.

It also clicked something off in my mind regarding myself...man crush...no.
I actually almost wanted to jump down and bowl Junior Gold while there and show RM what an old cripple guy bowling with his wrong hand could do.  Maybe about the same as him!  I figured it would be my last chance because he will only get better on these types of shots with proper drills, knowledge, experience and coaching!  But I am the proverbial outsider.  Never bowled growing up...
Won golf tournaments the first time I played in them over local heros...
Set records but luckily with witnesses ...phew for me!  Lucked into a bunch of money too early for my bowling experience....

No wonder I relate to Mushtare.... he is an outsider...considered too young to do this...accomplishments such as his must be backed by years of experience.

This is why I loved Lee Trevino...Jeff Rodgers in waterskiing...Sevriano Ballesteros...too early to set records...etc.

I know all of a sudden clearly see yours, other college bowlers posting here and junior gold posters and there vehement denial of the possibility of it and understand the pecking order or an approximation of it what would be accepted by the bowling community.  I think.

I believe these are the current values of the group think junior gold and college programs....
1. Only versatile bowlers rank high in value.
2. Performance and placing on difficult conditions is the most important.
3. High scoring on easy conditions is not very relevant and is actually sort of frowned upon(everyone can do it).
4. Great performances only come with experience and must be worked up to...very gradually.

Being an outsider and not really in the bowling insider community...

I think different.
1.  Bowlers can be specialists and be very good....at that one set of skills or conditions.  Ernie Shlegal for example on US open conditions and Robert Mushtare on wide open conditions.
2.  Bowling is failing as a sport...and it's not because of bowling integrity...it's because low scoring every week is BORING!  Pro bowling which is the dog wagging the tail(college bowling and jr gold)...is losing money.
It is apparent that they have decided to go to a slightly higher scoring environment and we may start to see the old diversity of players winning with higher scores.  Some weeks crankers some weeks strokers and this trend seemed to be starting last year.  Just as noted...scoring at JR gold was slightly up.
3.  My most vehement disagreement....NOT everybody can score real high on wide open conditions...it is it's own beautiful skill and something I personally love to watch...and if you ever talked to them...so does the public!
4.  Great performances can come from outside the queue or posse!  Some of the greatest bowlers ever Earl Anthony ...Walter Ray came in from a side entrance!
Part of their greatness is they SAW things differently!  If they saw things the same they would not have been so great.  As I covered before I believe all great winning champs and record breakers are IRRATIONAL in their beliefs in themselves, in relation to if they evaluated their probabilities of success on each execution...it would be lower than their execution rate actually ends up being.  Their irrationality drives their success or recordbreaking.  The better statistical calculators and rational evaluators of their success end up interfering with their performance because of the rapid calculations!

Regarding Robert Mushtare...I expect him to never shoot a 900 again!  After being properly indoctinated to the thoughts above...combined with a Pavlovs dog reaction to shooting 900s ...= pain!  This one thought is similar to Jeff Carters statment that he probably could not equal his average setting record after being on the protour for awhile even though he is a better and more versatile bowler....  In versatility usually is a decline in the specialized skill of either being just a tough condition bowler or an easy condition bowler.  If one is already an extreme performer on either of these conditions.  In my mind.

Regarding betting...I will stay up a little longer and message you as to my preferred bet.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS didn't a guy named Rod Ross say that he believed Robert Mushtare shot all those 900s...is he somebody?

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/21/2006 4:01 AM

Edited on 7/21/2006 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2006, 04:01:45 AM
OH...on rubbernecking...

It's not OK for me to follow Robert Mushtare's career with interest?  Or it's rubbernecking?  

If that is the case...Are you possibly rubbernecking the careers of Bill Oneill, Nathan Bohr, and Sean Rash?

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Silencer on July 21, 2006, 05:06:30 AM
All of you, get a freaking life, WHO CARES ANYMORE, it is done with and will soon be forgotten about!!!
--------------------
And Then...........

I left another 10 pin

J-Rad Lawrence
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 21, 2006, 08:00:41 AM
Lefty,
    I was going to write this exceedingly long reply to all of the drivel you've been spewing. But I decided to keep short and simple, in deferecne to you. You say you have an "outsiders" thinking. That statement is only half true, you maybe an outsider, but you aren't thinking. Thinking means you take in information, dwell on it, and produce new and improved information afterwards. You dismiss everything anyone says that isn't yours, without thinking. You make comparisons to golfing scores that are irrelevant and you never, ever, respond to or answer the points others are trying to make.

I was never an elite college bowler, I was ok, no where near the level of Tony Chapman, Chris Viale, et. al. But I have been through that experience and I have thought and changed my views on bowling because of that. I have bowled a few PBA regionals and been lucky enough, or good enough to cash. Again, after bowling on those shots, my thinking has changed. And DP has it right, great college bowlers deserve the credit he is giving them. I see your list you failed to mention Chris Barnes, an all American Shocker, who won $300,000 in 2 weeks last year. So it works both ways.

The bottom line is this: Musthare*'s claims go beyond the realm of believability. No one has ever said he throws a bad ball, people have said and video has proven that he isn't very accurate (or haven't you seen that great brooklyn on the local news video). Now subtract the prebowling/practice advantage he gained and the fact that he was pretty much alone while doing it. That equation does not add up to 5 900 series in 6 months. It doesn't even add up to 1 900 series. Yet, as I have said before, I think the first one was real, he overacheived he used his "irrational" thinking as you call it. But having done so once is no indication that he can do it again, especially with what he has working against him. Do you think Nolan Ryan ever went out to the mound thinking he was going to lose, or thinking he couldn't strike out anyone who faced him? Positive thinking can't overcome the physical. It can't make you not pull a ball if you stick at the foul line a little. Unless a witness appears out of nowhere, an unbiased witness comes forward saying they saw everything, these are not believable. No matter how irrational his thinking is.

I guess I lied at the beginning of this, saying this would be short, but I guess my irrational thinking got the best of me, I just knew I could write a long rambling post, just like you.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: EL on July 21, 2006, 08:40:58 AM
Better add my name to this great topic.....

Just one thing....Lucky Lefty for President!!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2006, 09:35:22 AM
I appreciate it!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2006, 10:00:28 AM
Everyone knows...that Chris Barnes is a "SHOCKER".

The number of "SHOCKERS" on tour is very high!

A friend of mine got the opportunity to spend a lot of time with Barnes at the open!

They had lunch one day...My understanding is that a conversation that started like..."Have you considered the possibilities of...?"  took place.

This same inspirational person gave the same conversation to me once...I thank him for it!  He does not give it lightly....  it is not given to all...

$330,000 including overseas winnings...yes...I'm aware of it and posted regarding it somewhere on this site and how much more correct Chris Barnes has looked on getting that ball level and out on the lane in these victories!  He looks fantastic...

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 21, 2006, 10:29:43 AM
Jorge...

You can say I'm not thinking...but I can assure you that one of the most respected regional champs in America has absorbed my type of "drivel" and has shot raised his personal average dramatically.  While almost ceasing any practice.

Shot more 300s and 800s than at any time in his career.

Recently I believe he had 30 in a row in a set in real league.

He has infected several others with this type of thinking to their great benefit!

Discount...pooh pooh it!  It doesn't bother me a bit!

With it...the sky is the limit...without...people say..."we always thought you could have been somethin...almost but it's never quite clicked for you".

"It's not thinking...it's drivel".  Repeat that 100 times a day.
Check the results and get back to me.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS "it can't make things happen", "it can't make things happen", "it can't make things happen", "one MUST perform to their statistical probablilities", "it can't make things happen"...over and over again...OH wait...you already did!
PPS oh and remember...if you decide to go the other way...and try it...one must eat tofu while thinking..."have you considered the possibilities of....?"
Baccala told me that!  I guarantee you without TOFU...Robert Mushtare did...as do all other record setters(his own version...per his Mother).
PPPS...To follow up...DP3 and I have decided to not discuss any discussions we hae had priately (that v thing)regarding this topic!  Some people on this site are so pricklish at this time...  
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/24/2006 8:48 AM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 21, 2006, 01:06:31 PM
Quote
Jorge...

You can say I'm not thinking...but I can assure you that one of the most respected regional champs in America has absorbed my type of "drivel" and has shot raised his personal average dramatically.  While almost ceasing any practice.
Quote
 

Maybe if you spoke English your points would get across, who do I get my "shot raised" by the way? And is there a stool involced anywhere? LOL

Quote
Shot more 300s and 800s than at any time in his career.
Quote

I've done that too, you get into a groove, didn't need your new age babble to do it either.

Quote
Recently I believe had 30 in a row in a set in real league.
Quote

Very nice, great shooting. Not close the 180 Robby is claiming though, guess he needs another does of your medicine.

Quote
He has infected several others with this type of thinking to their great benefit!
Quote


Infected, huh. Last time I checked the connotation of infected is a bad thing, infected by a disease, infected cut, lol. Actually maybe that is a good way to look at it, an infection that needs to be removed (remember your words not mine, got the quote).

Quote
I guarantee you without TOFU...Robert Mushtare did...as do all other record setters(his own version...per his Mother).
Quote

So you know for 100% fact Robby is this new age believer like you? Why? Cause his mother said so. What was she going to say - "No, he thinks he stinks and has a bad attitude" or maybe "He always thinks he going to do bad." Did you talk to Robby, did you "infect" him or is this all just speculation on your part?
Quote
DP3 and I have I believe made arrangements for a decent size bet!  I agree with him....if you believe it back it up!  I have..and he will!  FUN!quote]
I'm glad you are willing to bet on a 17 yr old. Isn't that illegal by the way, LOL. I don't care enough about this match to setup a Paypal account and go through the trouble that you and DP3 did. Does that mean I can't express my opinions on here?!?

And lastly, what the hell is with the postscripts?!? Why can't you just put things you want to say in the post? PS, PPS, PPPS, maybe if you put the crytsals down for a minute you could create a rational thought and put it down in the post, rather then having to add it later.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: onerevaway on July 22, 2006, 04:47:21 PM
LEFTY GO GET A LIFE!! STOP OBSESSING OVER ROBERT WITH ALL UR POINTLESS STORIES!! IF YOU ADORE HIM SO MUCH WHY DONT YOU GO MARRY HIM HAHA!!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 24, 2006, 08:45:03 AM
Ann Coulter says it so well.

Disagree with a liberal and sexual accusations or rumors of drinking are mentioned.

On this forum disagree with a former college bowler and the same comes out or complaints about grammar.

Again...here are the main important points I hae made(sorry..old computer is losing the v on most key stroke attempts).

1. I talked to a well known coach.  He agrees with me...less 900s are shot than one would expect based on the conditions available in many leagues and houses.
2. Had the opportunity to visit with Richie Sposato this weekend President of Lane#1.  He talked about the how the sport should reward powerful releases and that grind it out bowling and high scoring bowling are dramatically different tasks.  (as listed in another post....he went out and showed us the reward for a powerful release(tearing up what we thought was a tough pattern with a pin axis drilled plastic).
3.  Mental training and preparation would do world's of good for many players.
NOt walking in the center and saying.  "I am the best".  That is not preparation.  Mental training consists of picturing in viid detail on a daily basis what you want to picture happening.  It means dreaming it(often can be set up by gentle musing about the topic) before bed.  I like the word infection and don't care about the connotation.  Get it inside...or don't get it at all!

Bowlers have a choice to avoid this type of preparation or do it!

The ANTI mental preparation task I would advice anyone to do would be to spend a lot of time calculating statistics on how difficult a task is to do!
REpeating that mantra oer (v's again) and over (about 50%) again in writing, in discussion, in thinking, maybe thinking before bed and then maybe in dreaming.

"It can't be done, statistically far fetched, impossible, he can't do it, I can't do it".  Delicious food for a brain that wants to perform slightly below ones ability!

As a great bowling friend of mine used to chide me...."can't...or won't?"

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS after 7 years posting on this forum with a PS I'll probably continue...bon appetit!
PPS I like them but I haven't explored why!
PPPS and another thing...
PPPPS The statistically improbable argument is tired and old but does get repeated a bit!
PPPPPS no body else is required to prove a point by betting.
 


4.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/24/2006 8:53 AM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: KDawg77 on July 24, 2006, 08:48:09 AM
Actually, I did walk into the 1991 San Antonio YABA tournament in 1991 saying, "Ya'll go home now!" and won. Sometimes it works!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 24, 2006, 09:04:22 AM
30 days and nights is a good starting point.

This is offerred in with all good intention.

I still loe repeating the story of a friend of mine who saw me "fall into some cash" as he stated!

His thought..."If a bum like you (luckylefty) can do something like that"!
"Then it was time for me to do something great!"  His second 700 series...848!

How can people do this!?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS a mental spur...or preparation makes the nearly impossible for others...seeable...doable...(here come some spelling tips!  Thanks, Jorge!)
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 24, 2006, 12:24:31 PM
quote:
Ann Coulter says it so well.

Disagree with a liberal and sexual accusations or rumors of drinking are mentioned.

On this forum disagree with a former college bowler and the same comes out or complaints about grammar.

Again...here are the main important points I hae made(sorry..old computer is losing the v on most key stroke attempts).

1. I talked to a well known coach.  He agrees with me...less 900s are shot than one would expect based on the conditions available in many leagues and houses.
2. Had the opportunity to visit with Richie Sposato this weekend President of Lane#1.  He talked about the how the sport should reward powerful releases and that grind it out bowling and high scoring bowling are dramatically different tasks.  (as listed in another post....he went out and showed us the reward for a powerful release(tearing up what we thought was a tough pattern with a pin axis drilled plastic).
3.  Mental training and preparation would do world's of good for many players.
NOt walking in the center and saying.  "I am the best".  That is not preparation.  Mental training consists of picturing in viid detail on a daily basis what you want to picture happening.  It means dreaming it(often can be set up by gentle musing about the topic) before bed.  I like the word infection and don't care about the connotation.  Get it inside...or don't get it at all!

Bowlers have a choice to avoid this type of preparation or do it!

The ANTI mental preparation task I would advice anyone to do would be to spend a lot of time calculating statistics on how difficult a task is to do!
REpeating that mantra oer (v's again) and over (about 50%) again in writing, in discussion, in thinking, maybe thinking before bed and then maybe in dreaming.

"It can't be done, statistically far fetched, impossible, he can't do it, I can't do it".  Delicious food for a brain that wants to perform slightly below ones ability!

As a great bowling friend of mine used to chide me...."can't...or won't?"

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS after 7 years posting on this forum with a PS I'll probably continue...bon appetit!
PPS I like them but I haven't explored why!
PPPS and another thing...
PPPPS The statistically improbable argument is tired and old but does get repeated a bit!
PPPPPS no body else is required to prove a point by betting.
 


4.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/24/2006 8:53 AM



Dude, I think you definately need to put down the pipe and stop smoking that stuff or please up the dosage on your medication because it certainly isn't working. Maybe once you get done playing with your crystals and get back from your accupuncture class you'll realize what a jerk you sound like. Are you one, I can't say and won't not my place, but comment and generalities like at the beginning of this post certainly make you seem that way. Last time I checked Ann Coultier wasn't a very respected journalist because of comments like this, and this is coming from someone classfied as a liberal by any means.

Now if you would actually take the time to read a post maybe, just maybe you can post something of value:

1) You say less are shot then expected. Well guess what, that is a statistic that you hate so much, and if that's true, then it's even more of a reason to disbelieve what Musthare* has done.
2)No one has said anything about a powerful release. I'm glad a guy who doesn't put his thumb in the ball can tear up a shot with plastic......did he shoot 900 by the way? I'm guessing not... and from what I have heard Richie is a very good bowler. So this goes too Robert's scores at JOG. If he is so good as you proclaim, and has such a powerful release why didn't he tear up what was supposed to be a difficult shot throwing new, modern equipment? HMMMMMMM
3) What is "viid detail"? Some sort of new age mumbojumbo. No bowler of any skill, junior, college, adult, pro goes into a house thinking they are going to roll bad or going to lose, if they are then they don't belong there. What you suggest is done by thousands of bowlers everyday, so you have 1-2 examples where it worked out, what about all the other times when the people dream of a 300 and shoot 150? You don't mention how many times it hasn't worked just 1-2 that is has. Now I see why you don't like statistics so much!! HMMMMMMM

Jorge

PS For 7 yrs you've has this, have you seen a doctor
PPS You like them cause you have to have the last word? Another reason to sit on a couch and discuss your feelings.
PPPS  no other thing needed, you've done quite enough damage to yourself already
PPPPS Sorry you hate statistics. The world is full of them and all have meaning. Maybe old to you, but it is the truth. It was never said it was impossible by the way, improbable yes, impossible no.
PPPPPS Another couch issue, betting proves a point, maybe gambler's anonymous needs a call too.
PPPPPPS I have never wished I was shrink more, I could retire just by having you as a patient.

--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: KDawg77 on July 24, 2006, 12:27:11 PM
Jorge,

No offense, but don't harp on a typo like "viid" when you can not spell "DEFINITELY". There's no "A" in that word. Otherwise, I side with you on the Mushtare issue.
--------------------
That's right. I said it!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 24, 2006, 12:31:38 PM
quote:
30 days and nights is a good starting point.

This is offerred in with all good intention.

I still loe repeating the story of a friend of mine who saw me "fall into some cash" as he stated!

His thought..."If a bum like you (luckylefty) can do something like that"!
"Then it was time for me to do something great!"  His second 700 series...848!

How can people do this!?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS a mental spur...or preparation makes the nearly impossible for others...seeable...doable...(here come some spelling tips!  Thanks, Jorge!)
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


How many people have followed this and shot worse, or done it more then once?
You so gladly bring up the 1,2 or maybe 3 times it works. Even if it worked 100 times, how many bowler's ahve tried it, thousands, hundreds of thousands. So it has a success rate of what less then 1%, if 100,000 people try it and 100 find success that gives you a whopping .1%. One tenth of one percent. Not a very good likelyhood of success. Oopps, I'm sorry i'm using statistics again aren't I? You don't like stats, maybe now we see why!!

No spelling tips, they are lost on someone like you. Maybe us college graduates are the ones giving tips because, well, we are college graduates and learned how to spell and write properly, and it has nothing to do with bowling. I am glad to see all your dreaming and visualization the you "loe" and you do in "viid detail" works so well on your bowling, maybe you ought to try dreaming about your posts at night and see if it helps your spelling?!?

And wasn't it 40 day and 40 nights, oh wait that was another story.......
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 24, 2006, 01:17:59 PM
College graduate?

WOW! Would you like to compare transcripts and schools?  If you are 4.0 in school you do have me beat!
You clearly know nothing about me...the businesses I run, other accomplishments outside the sports sphere.  Many on this site do.  I am a fortunate person!  I'm not who you think I am.  Don't let a lack of high level interest in punctuation spelling and grammar define for you the content of what I am saying to you!  I was not an English major I admit!  

If I need an editor for important buisness publishing...I hire one!  Your focus on punctuation and sentence structure as a large part of the basis for your rantings.  Instead the focus should be on the logic of the discussion.  I love your criticism of the 40 days I've posted before regarding mental training versus my recommendation of at least 30days before the effects are usually felt.  That disproves it...  You said 40 before(I did and used) and now you are saying 30(a baseline minimum recommended by the experts)!


Again,

You have me convinced it can'tbe done...and most definitely these out of body occurances won't be coming from anyone YOU know.

Especially if you hae anything to do with it!

Don't believe everyone is backing you on these posts...there are lots of people who think the ideas out here I am giving you have value.  Including some people who don't post much and others who've made money off of these ideas not on this site.

Robert Mushtare, had a realization after several incredible practice sessions...
"Mom....I'm getting ready to do some incredible things!"  That simple.
I would bet after that he dreamed it!  

It's often a vision...just like that!

YOu should try it sometime...it might leave you more satisfied...less crabby!  Or as some have described ...you...prickly!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS Clearly thought only!.. without action, accomplishes little.
Thinking combined with action and talent is the best prescription.
Regarding these ideas.  A millionaire friend of mine says his key to getting wealthy is looking at his net worth statement once a month for 5 minutes and thinking about it!  That's it!  WOW. But think of all the others that do this and it doesn't work!  
PPS For many people Ann Coulter is a well respected set of opinions with a razor tongue.  She also does not intend to please everyone....
PPPS we do understand that you disagree with me, we also understand that if Robert Mushtare changes the past...finds witnesses to his accomplishment you will believe him!  These are a reasonable set of conditions..in your mind.
The changing of the past one...well that's easy isn't it?  THere are sworn witnesses to one game of series 2 900(1st approved) and to the complete second 900 approved(Jamie Grimm).  Do we really need to go farther to understand he didn't do it your mind...won't be able to prove it too you? etc.  I get it and with your friendly writing style...it isn't hard for most others to get it either!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/24/2006 1:59 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: ChrispyBrownies on July 24, 2006, 01:18:57 PM
Why is mushy so intrigueing to you all?
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Its hard to play with an inferno and not get burned. Last time I threw my inferno, the opposing bowler definitely got burned.

MY INFERNOS WILL SMOKE YOU!!!
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: ImaRedbird on July 24, 2006, 03:30:40 PM
PLEZE ENOUGH ALREADY!! Drop The Subject. It's Really Getting Old. Mushy Might Have Hit It On A Walled Up Shot, GOOD FOR HIM, THAT'S NOT HELPING US OUT. I'm Sick of Seeing his Name and This Post. If he Did Good For Him IF he Didn't And Cheated, He already made Himself look Like A Cheat and a fake at JOG and any other competition. The Boy Wonder is not that damn Wonderful to be dragging on a 2 week post.
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Stop Crying, Shut Up and BOWL!!! Everybody throws  gutterballs back to back at one point in their life Getting Zero is an accomplishent that you should be proud of!!!

Edited on 7/24/2006 3:30 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 24, 2006, 05:03:56 PM
While I'm thinking of it...I'd like to finalize the thought on Richie Sposato president of Lane#1 and his demonstration the other day.

This thought will further back up my contention that proper drillings and experience etc can make a tremendous difference on a challenging shot.
Often over 20 to 25 pins a game for a long tournament format.

In this case...Richie used some wonderful Lane#1 stuff to start.  Including their famous and well recognized Lane#1 Viper.  Noted for it's tremendous smoothness with his dynamic no thumb release this ball was clearly TOO much for the pattern.  Other newer Lane # 1's were also WAY too strong for this shorter pattern.

The pin axis drilling put on Lane #1's new clear plastic converted this very jumpy pattern from tough play to easy as pie for his powerful release and this mild drilling and ball.  Adding probably 60 pins to his average game from resin over these couple of games!  WOW.

More proof that special drillings, knowledge(Richie has been around for awhile), combined with powerful technique can make all the difference for the powerful release on these patterns.  However without these tools.  The powerful release looks like it is penalized more than the more standard and less powerful action!

I believe 3 days of training on these patterns with a knowledgeable ball driller could cure all these problems quickly.  Again though if someone can average 205 on this pattern I do not see it as confirmation or non conformation of a 900.  In this I am in agreement.  Of course I disagree with the point that a 185 average on the sport shot at JR Golds without this specialized knowledge and some moderate training disproves any 900 type of skill.

Leading us back to the point.  Robert Mushtare's lack of knowledge and drilling patterns combined with his powerful release and big board covering type of ball probably had as much to do with his not so great performance at JR. GOLD.  These things can be easily cured!

Trying to shoot a 900 with a more mundane release..highly improbable and tougher to cure!

REgards,

Luckylefty

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/24/2006 5:00 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: BackToBasics on July 24, 2006, 05:50:54 PM
There is no specialized knowledged needed to hit what you looking at.  There is no specialized knowledge to making spares i.e not going 6 out on the 3-6-9-10 spare.

And you sound like the few local people that went out to Team USA qualifiers, averaged 170 with 12 balls and blamed it on the equipment.  Yet there were at least 2-3 balls in their bag that were more than sufficient.  You act as though there are some secret decoder batman style drillings that if you have you'll all of a sudden average 220 on a tough shot?  It's as simple as surface and flare management.


And the reason there are so few 900s is simple.  Lane transition and pressure.  I don't care how easy the shot is, todays balls break down shots extremely quickly. Even the shots where you only move a few boards a night, there are subtle changes that affect carry.  Lastly, pour on the pressure from back to back 300s and you have why so few have been thrown.



Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Jorge300 on July 24, 2006, 07:40:00 PM
quote:
College graduate?

WOW! Would you like to compare transcripts and schools?  If you are 4.0 in school you do have me beat!
You clearly know nothing about me...the businesses I run, other accomplishments outside the sports sphere.  Many on this site do.  I am a fortunate person!  I'm not who you think I am.  Don't let a lack of high level interest in punctuation spelling and grammar define for you the content of what I am saying to you!  I was not an English major I admit!  

If I need an editor for important buisness publishing...I hire one!  Your focus on punctuation and sentence structure as a large part of the basis for your rantings.  Instead the focus should be on the logic of the discussion.  I love your criticism of the 40 days I've posted before regarding mental training versus my recommendation of at least 30days before the effects are usually felt.  That disproves it...  You said 40 before(I did and used) and now you are saying 30(a baseline minimum recommended by the experts)!


Again,

You have me convinced it can'tbe done...and most definitely these out of body occurances won't be coming from anyone YOU know.

Especially if you hae anything to do with it!

Don't believe everyone is backing you on these posts...there are lots of people who think the ideas out here I am giving you have value.  Including some people who don't post much and others who've made money off of these ideas not on this site.

Robert Mushtare, had a realization after several incredible practice sessions...
"Mom....I'm getting ready to do some incredible things!"  That simple.
I would bet after that he dreamed it!  

It's often a vision...just like that!

YOu should try it sometime...it might leave you more satisfied...less crabby!  Or as some have described ...you...prickly!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS Clearly thought only!.. without action, accomplishes little.
Thinking combined with action and talent is the best prescription.
Regarding these ideas.  A millionaire friend of mine says his key to getting wealthy is looking at his net worth statement once a month for 5 minutes and thinking about it!  That's it!  WOW. But think of all the others that do this and it doesn't work!  
PPS For many people Ann Coulter is a well respected set of opinions with a razor tongue.  She also does not intend to please everyone....
PPPS we do understand that you disagree with me, we also understand that if Robert Mushtare changes the past...finds witnesses to his accomplishment you will believe him!  These are a reasonable set of conditions..in your mind.
The changing of the past one...well that's easy isn't it?  THere are sworn witnesses to one game of series 2 900(1st approved) and to the complete second 900 approved(Jamie Grimm).  Do we really need to go farther to understand he didn't do it your mind...won't be able to prove it too you? etc.  I get it and with your friendly writing style...it isn't hard for most others to get it either!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 7/24/2006 1:59 PM


Well now, let's all give 3 cheers to Lefty, Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray, Hip Hip Hooray!! Now we have celebrated your numerous successes. Im happy for you, really. Now can we get back to the point?!?

Now just a thought, since you brought it up, since you just pay for whatever you need, maybe Musthare* did the same thing. He needed a 900 series after his real one was declined. Maybe his father just paid people to say they saw something they didn't?!? Not saying it happened, but is it a possiblity?

Again, what would you expect his mother to say? You keep quoting these people as if their words should make a difference. I would only be surprised if she didn't back him up. Jaime Grimm is not a reliable witness. He is his friend and also bowled his very first 300 game that same set. There are witnesses to a few frames here and there but no one to see all of the games, sorry. And for the first one, one games doesn't make a 900 last time a checked.

So now we have 3 examples. And we should give your friend more weight because he is a millionaire? Not sure how he earned his millions, through inheritance, hard work, stock market, who knows. But why should he hold more weight then your friend who shot 800, or the hundreds or thousands who tried this and it didn't work? So maybe now we are to .15%, still not very good in my book.

The only reason I believe he didn't so it, is that the facts can't prove he did. You say there are a lot things that were once fact or were once impossible, that are now possible. But what is difference in all those cases, that isn't true in this one. These things were proven correct. Robby* cannot prove his feat. If Christopher Columbus sent his childhood friend back to Spain to tell them of the new world, would he have been believed? If Edison said he invented the lightbulb, and his mother was the only one to see it and he couldn't reproduce it in front of witnesses, would he have been believed? Prove he did it, prove it with a witness that isn't a friend or relative and I will believe it.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"

Edited on 7/24/2006 7:36 PM
Title: Re: Update on Mush are Gold
Post by: Ragnar on July 26, 2006, 04:03:42 PM
MAKE IT GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"