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Author Topic: Defy, still a mess  (Read 3045 times)

Gizmo823

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Defy, still a mess
« on: October 17, 2014, 07:05:42 AM »
Had Defy down for almost 3 months at two different houses I bowl with, both have different house patterns.  Have tried a couple different sport patterns with Defy down.  This stuff transitions significantly different from any other oil I've bowled on, and not in a good way.  Yes it self heals, but it self heals itself all over the place.  The dry plays drier and the wet plays wetter.  Here's how it normally goes.  Get about halfway through the first game and all the sudden the ball doesn't want to hook anymore.  Get a little bit of carrydown, and the oil starts self healing itself down onto the backend, which makes it worse.  It doesn't heal fast enough to prevent track burn, so after you have moved right to get the ball to hook, a few frames later you have to move back left to avoid the track burn.  Then the next problem aside from dealing with some sharp over/under before you're even out of the first game is that eventually the oil does start to self heal, but it thins the volume out across the board.  By game 3, you have dry heads, over/under mids, and sloppy, soft backends.  Maybe it will be better when it gets colder (hi's still in the upper 60s to mid 70s here) and the stuff gels up a little, but right now it just migrates all over the place.  All it does is take every other problem and shortcoming with any other kind of oil and magnifies it.  Burns faster than Fire, carries down worse than Ice, plus new problems!  I can't believe this stuff got through R&D.  They've spent 2 1/2 months adjusting the shot here to try to accommodate all its issues and oddities, but the problems we already have with 1-7 being super dry and the backends in the track being soft have just been magnified, now it's MORE over/under. 

HOWEVER, on the left side of the lane?  Completely different experience.  The traffic on the left side is slow enough that it allows it to do what its supposed to do.  Volume holds up, carrydown is minimal, actually don't mind it on the left side.  I still prefer Ice to anything else, but I have zero problems with it on the left side. 

There have still been a fair amount of high scores, however, but I attribute that more to the volume bump than anything else.  Both of these houses have always been on the drier side, so now that the ball can get down the lane and transition to the backend better, carry has improved somewhat and people are able to throw more relaxed shots.  Overall though, I still find Ice to be my favorite, and several other oils to be vastly superior to Defy.  This also isn't just my opinion, even the average joe is making the same complaints and noticing the same issues. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

headwest

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Re: Defy, still a mess
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 11:04:36 AM »
 Oil and surface can vary so much from house to house but I've been using Defy for a few months with good results.Did add length to the pattern,moved loads in a few boards ,as well as slowed the machine to keep more oil up front with a longer taper. Just as important as the pattern is how well the machine cleans and the strength of the cleaner.A lane that is cleaned with striipper that is to strong can make the lanes transition faster and if there is contamination of striipper and oil it can cause some of the issues you describe.

scotts33

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Re: Defy, still a mess
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 06:17:25 PM »
Does this house or houses take tapes and read them on a regular basis to know what being put down and how it plays in different formats? 
Scott

billdozer

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Re: Defy, still a mess
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 09:16:27 PM »
If it makes all of you feel better, the idiots that run both of the houses I 'currently' ( 8) ) bowl at..totally screwed up the shot at both centers.  Most people dont even want to bowl anymore....its sad. 
We have a 24 team league biggest in the county...and its just wacky...I know we will lose teams. 
The other is a scratch league and survivor cuts are 170's lol.  High games are usually 200-210..
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Gizmo823

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Re: Defy, still a mess
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 07:34:28 AM »
Yeah they've had to mess with quite a few things, but we've got one of the best mechanics in the country and the best Kegel machine outside of the Flex.  Our surface is 15 years old and has never been resurfaced though, it's always been a bad surface though, and I don't think they're adjusting the shot in the right places.  It's always been super wet/dry, over under, and soft in the middle of the track and this stuff has just made it worse.  It plays drier, so you have to bump the volume, but because it self heals, the oil just follows the carrydown and makes it worse.  I think it's more the pattern than the oil, but the oil is much worse than any other oil we've used. 

Oil and surface can vary so much from house to house but I've been using Defy for a few months with good results.Did add length to the pattern,moved loads in a few boards ,as well as slowed the machine to keep more oil up front with a longer taper. Just as important as the pattern is how well the machine cleans and the strength of the cleaner.A lane that is cleaned with striipper that is to strong can make the lanes transition faster and if there is contamination of striipper and oil it can cause some of the issues you describe.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?