BallReviews
Equipment Boards => 900 Global => Topic started by: iamone78 on May 17, 2016, 07:14:35 PM
-
WWRD 1 July 2016
-
2 More in the Boost line
-
Inception/truth are the same except for a variation to the core? Can someone please explain this to me as I'm not very tech savvy...
-
Inception/truth are the same except for a variation to the core? Can someone please explain this to me as I'm not very tech savvy...
Looks like the Inception uses a dual density core that creates asymmetry
-
The difference in the 2 cores is the Inception utilizes the Adapter/D core which is asymmetric and the Truth has the Adapter/C core which is symmetric. I have an article written by our design engineer, Nick Siefers which explains the specific differences in the two core designs. It is fairly large in size, but I will try to extract into a word document so I can cut and paste the content in a different post for everyone.
-
Inception/truth are the same except for a variation to the core? Can someone please explain this to me as I'm not very tech savvy...
Looks like the Inception uses a dual density core that creates asymmetry
So similar to the I block that track uses....but different
-
Special Ops for me please!
-
Hmm, when will this info be on the 900 Global web site? I don't currently see it there.
-
I believe release dates are after bowl expo. They should go up on the website maybe next week? As for the core in the Inception & Truth. What 900 Global has done is something that has never happened before in the bowling industry. So far in the industry when going from an asymmetric core to a symmetric core, core shape changes, or core numbers change. The engineers have been able to create a brand new core in the Adaptor Core system. They have been able to change the densities in the core to not only maintain the same core shape from asymmetric to symmetric, but also keep the same core numbers aside from Intermediate Diff. So you have the Inception which is 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with .024 Intermediate Diff (Asymmetry). Then you have the Truth which is same core shape at 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with a 0.00 Intermediate Diff (Symmetric). This really is a huge step in core technology. I am very excited about this.
-
I believe release dates are after bowl expo. They should go up on the website maybe next week? As for the core in the Inception & Truth. What 900 Global has done is something that has never happened before in the bowling industry. So far in the industry when going from an asymmetric core to a symmetric core, core shape changes, or core numbers change. The engineers have been able to create a brand new core in the Adaptor Core system. They have been able to change the densities in the core to not only maintain the same core shape from asymmetric to symmetric, but also keep the same core numbers aside from Intermediate Diff. So you have the Inception which is 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with .024 Intermediate Diff (Asymmetry). Then you have the Truth which is same core shape at 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with a 0.00 Intermediate Diff (Symmetric). This really is a huge step in core technology. I am very excited about this.
Question!!!! :)
Curt u know better than I would. How is this different than the i-block from track? I want to say the pursuit and pursuit-s were before the i-block as well. U reference, "first" in the industry... however I am just joe consumer...and it reads the same to me.
Adaptor:i-Block:pursuit(-s)
-
I believe release dates are after bowl expo. They should go up on the website maybe next week? As for the core in the Inception & Truth. What 900 Global has done is something that has never happened before in the bowling industry. So far in the industry when going from an asymmetric core to a symmetric core, core shape changes, or core numbers change. The engineers have been able to create a brand new core in the Adaptor Core system. They have been able to change the densities in the core to not only maintain the same core shape from asymmetric to symmetric, but also keep the same core numbers aside from Intermediate Diff. So you have the Inception which is 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with .024 Intermediate Diff (Asymmetry). Then you have the Truth which is same core shape at 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with a 0.00 Intermediate Diff (Symmetric). This really is a huge step in core technology. I am very excited about this.
Question!!!! :)
Curt u know better than I would. How is this different than the i-block from track? I want to say the pursuit and pursuit-s were before the i-block as well. U reference, "first" in the industry... however I am just joe consumer...and it reads the same to me.
Adaptor:i-Block:pursuit(-s)
Bill, it looks like the difference is how the Inception and Truth have the same rg and diff, but the Inception has an int diff as well.
The I-block for Track had different rg and diff values with the different densities
-
I believe release dates are after bowl expo. They should go up on the website maybe next week? As for the core in the Inception & Truth. What 900 Global has done is something that has never happened before in the bowling industry. So far in the industry when going from an asymmetric core to a symmetric core, core shape changes, or core numbers change. The engineers have been able to create a brand new core in the Adaptor Core system. They have been able to change the densities in the core to not only maintain the same core shape from asymmetric to symmetric, but also keep the same core numbers aside from Intermediate Diff. So you have the Inception which is 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with .024 Intermediate Diff (Asymmetry). Then you have the Truth which is same core shape at 2.48 RG, .055 Diff with a 0.00 Intermediate Diff (Symmetric). This really is a huge step in core technology. I am very excited about this.
Question!!!! :)
Curt u know better than I would. How is this different than the i-block from track? I want to say the pursuit and pursuit-s were before the i-block as well. U reference, "first" in the industry... however I am just joe consumer...and it reads the same to me.
Adaptor:i-Block:pursuit(-s)
Bill, it looks like the difference is how the Inception and Truth have the same rg and diff, but the Inception has an int diff as well.
The I-block for Track had different rg and diff values with the different densities
Gotchya. I'm super busy and I can can't compare the track stuff and the 900 stuff at the moment. Makes sense!
I was only asking cause the shape of the track stuff still looks the same as well between the symmetrical and assym.
Seems to be the trend to do this one way or another. Radical kinda has the same idea too! With the rediculous.
-
Question!!!! :)
Curt u know better than I would. How is this different than the i-block from track? I want to say the pursuit and pursuit-s were before the i-block as well. U reference, "first" in the industry... however I am just joe consumer...and it reads the same to me.
Adaptor:i-Block:pursuit(-s)
Looking at the Pursuit and Pursuit S, both utilize the same core shape, but the numbers between the two are different. Also, the int diff on the Pursuit is .008. I believe technically anything under .009 on int diff was still symmetric or at the very least didn't have to be listed as asymmetric. So to have the same cores and one is symmetric and the other asymmetric with the same RG and diff, that's pretty cool. Just my 2 cents.
-
Thanks for he info! People will ask me for the scoop, more than the local PSO's out of our 4 centers...so I wanted some thoughts on the balls, and how they are different from the other companies claiming to be doing the same thing as well...
Now we know it truly is unique, and is more unique than the competition.
Whoever is doing thing stuff is smart! The Bank was awesome as well, I remember the demonstration and speech about the core at ball expo, from Dave smart, gotta love it when someone puts their"all" into core design!
-
Question. Why would anyone buy 2 balls with the same cover and finish as well as core numbers, but 1 with asymmetry and the other without? You can have 400 in both or buy a Difference for $350! Sorry, I had too ;D
-
Question. Why would anyone buy 2 balls with the same cover and finish as well as core numbers, but 1 with asymmetry and the other without? You can have 400 in both or buy a Difference for $350! Sorry, I had too ;D
I don't think having both balls in the lineup is for people to necessarily buy both. You just gain some different options in the marketplace. For those of us who bowl a lot of tournaments on more than house shots I actually think having both could be beneficial
I've always been more of a fan of symmetric cored balls and if these had been out last year, I probably would have bought the Truth but I have a Motiv Revolt Havoc that fits that spot in my bag.
-
Hey Billdozer,
Sorry for just replying back to you. The reason why I say first time in bowling history is because of the fact that when other companies tried to make both asymmetric and symmetric cores, shapes were the same, but true core numbers were different. For instance, let's look at the Pursuit and Pursuit-S. Pursuit was a very low mass bias core with numbers of 2.49 RG, .054 Diff & .008 Int Diff. The Pursuit-S had the symmetric version with numbers of 2.51 RG, .056 Diff & 0.000 Int Diff. Now the numbers are close, but not the same. Also the asymmetry of the Pursuit is truly not high enough to make a big difference. As per most designers, it takes a .010 or higher int diff undrilled core to really make mass bias play a huge role in terms of ball reaction. Also the Pursuit and Pursuit-s had pretty close to the same core shape, but they did change the shape to create the asymmetry. So looking at the Inception and Truth, you have the same core shape, same core numbers, the only change is .024 Int Diff which is pretty big asymmetry in the Inception and in the Truth, Int. Diff is .000. I also want to bring up the I-Core from Track as well. So if you look at the Paradox and Track Tour Sic, the core shape is no doubt the same. The big difference of core is when changing densities to go from an asymmetric core in the Paradox to the Tour Sic, you see a big difference in core numbers, which definitely isn't a bad thing. I just believe that what 900 Global has created is truly a game changer. If you ever get a chance to talk to Pros, they will be honest and tell you there are some days where a symmetric core goes through the pins better for carry, and there are some days where asymmetrical cores go through the pins better. I think both balls no doubt have a place in the bag for tournament players. I also believe that for some average league bowlers, it will depend on rev rate for which ball you really want if you can't have both. Lower rev players should like the quicker change of direction with the asymmetric core in the Inception, higher rev players will enjoy the blended reaction from the symmetric core in the Truth. I hope I could not only clear some things up, but even try to help put it in simpler terms. If you have any other questions feel free to ask. I will try to explain the best way I can.
-
Thanks Curt! Makes perfect sense, we were talking about it at league last night, believe it or not!
-
Glad I could help billdozer. Also glad to hear you all talking about the new releases at league. Really think that 900 Global is really getting stronger as a brand. Also I really think the new AMF releases fit specific spots that gives even more options to the entire 900 Global/AMF300 lineup. Let me know if you have any other questions.
-
Is the drift above the special ops? I'm confused because it seems so but how since they are same surface prep but ops has a higher cover? Is it core?
-
Is the drift above the special ops? I'm confused because it seems so but how since they are same surface prep but ops has a higher cover? Is it core?
No. Special Ops has stronger cover and core
-
900 Global is getting really popular in Vegas and a lot of the big tournaments I see coming through here. A lot of the guys at the top of stuff are throwing Global. These look like 5 solid additions into what already might arguably be a #2 brand right now to Storm over Roto Grip, top to bottom reaction wise.
-
900 Global is getting really popular in Vegas and a lot of the big tournaments I see coming through here. A lot of the guys at the top of stuff are throwing Global.
I've noticed that too when I've taken the hour and a half drive to bowl a few tournaments in Vegas
-
These look like 5 solid additions into what already might arguably be a #2 brand right now to Storm over Roto Grip, top to bottom reaction wise.
I was thinking the same. 900 global looks very complete as a brand, top to bottom. As a storm guy, I feel there's alot coming from left field lately...don't understand some of the additions, but at the se time I understand they are trying g to fill gaps Idk..
-
Even though I'm out of bowling for 6-7 months I've already put my order in for a Special Ops and Drift
-
These look like 5 solid additions into what already might arguably be a #2 brand right now to Storm over Roto Grip, top to bottom reaction wise.
I was thinking the same. 900 global looks very complete as a brand, top to bottom. As a storm guy, I feel there's alot coming from left field lately...don't understand some of the additions, but at the se time I understand they are trying g to fill gaps Idk..
I've been thinking about switching away from Storm a lot more and now I believe I could exclusively throw 900G/AMF. Before these came out, I noticed a lot of their upper line stuff rolls like Storms good stuff before they started trying to be innovative. With the new stuff, it's going to be even better!
-
These look like 5 solid additions into what already might arguably be a #2 brand right now to Storm over Roto Grip, top to bottom reaction wise.
I was thinking the same. 900 global looks very complete as a brand, top to bottom. As a storm guy, I feel there's alot coming from left field lately...don't understand some of the additions, but at the se time I understand they are trying g to fill gaps Idk..
I've been thinking about switching away from Storm a lot more and now I believe I could exclusively throw 900G/AMF. Before these came out, I noticed a lot of their upper line stuff rolls like Storms good stuff before they started trying to be innovative. With the new stuff, it's going to be even better!
these are Storm covers. Just different cores.
-
These look like 5 solid additions into what already might arguably be a #2 brand right now to Storm over Roto Grip, top to bottom reaction wise.
I was thinking the same. 900 global looks very complete as a brand, top to bottom. As a storm guy, I feel there's alot coming from left field lately...don't understand some of the additions, but at the se time I understand they are trying g to fill gaps Idk..
I've been thinking about switching away from Storm a lot more and now I believe I could exclusively throw 900G/AMF. Before these came out, I noticed a lot of their upper line stuff rolls like Storms good stuff before they started trying to be innovative. With the new stuff, it's going to be even better!
these are Storm covers. Just different cores.
Right. Are they still a 900g core for the 3 color pours? Dream/inception line, and respect/truth line?
Cuz they look like storm cores kinda
-
As far as I am aware tri-color pours are going down at the S.A. plant as of the Dream Big Pearl and Respect Solid. Looks to be a tri-color pour on the Escape as well. From my understanding 900 Global cores with those mentioned previously. I cannot comment on any of the upcoming releases. I apologize for any confusion or misleading information on my original post.
-
Tri-color pours are going down at the S.A. plant as of the Dream Big Pearl and Respect Solid. Tri-color pours on Escape and Great Escape. 900 Global cores as well.
That's interesting. Is any 900 Global stuff being poured in Utah now? What about vice versa with Storm/Roto Grip stuff being poured in San Antonio? I haven't paid very close attention to the situation but I never really had a clear picture of what was going on.
-
Is the drift above the special ops? I'm confused because it seems so but how since they are same surface prep but ops has a higher cover? Is it core?
It depends on what you consider above. As for price point, yes the Drift is above the Special Ops. The reason is because the Special Ops is using a proven core that has been out for quite some time now. As far as I know the Drift has a new cover/core combo and will be in the tour preferred series. Now as far as ball reaction, I will not know until I throw both of them. I expect the Special Ops to be a pinch smoother than the Drift.
-
Tri-color pours are going down at the S.A. plant as of the Dream Big Pearl and Respect Solid. Tri-color pours on Escape and Great Escape. 900 Global cores as well.
That's interesting. Is any 900 Global stuff being poured in Utah now? What about vice versa with Storm/Roto Grip stuff being poured in San Antonio? I haven't paid very close attention to the situation but I never really had a clear picture of what was going on.
900 Global can pour some Storm balls, and Storm can pour some 900 Global balls. Don't quote me on this, but here goes. Storm purchased 900 Global in middle of 2014. What has happened is Storm wants 900 Global to be a separate company. For instance, Storm staffers can throw Roto-Grip and vice versa. 900 Global staffers can't throw Storm or Roto Grip, but we can throw AMF300. In 2014 900 Global came out with their first releases that had a "Storm" cover which were the Moxie and Dream. These were poured in Utah. As far as I know, I believe the cores used were partially designed by Storm as Storm wanted to be able to easily use a core mold in house for these releases. So everything below the Dream and Respect line is poured in San Antonio. Last time I checked, 900 Global is now using the same urethane and additives that storm uses. So basically all of our equipment has the chemicals that Storm uses. But remember we are different so our covers are different. I know for a fact that Nick Siefers (900 Global Engineer) has designed all of the cores used in our new releases including the new Adaptor core. I also am pretty sure that we have upgraded our manufacturing to include tri color bowling balls as of the Respect Solid and Dream Big Pearl. So now I am pretty sure what you are seeing is Storm/Roto Grip as one and now 900 Global/AMF300 as one. What I always find interesting is just how different the reactions are from each company with no overlap. I believe AMF300 stuff will fill in gaps in the 900 Global lineup and vice versa. Hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
-
Thanks! That's very informative and covers everything I was wondering about.
-
Thank you Curt for being an informative staff member. You peaked my interest a little bit with the Drift when I was just ignoring it originally
-
Is the drift above the special ops? I'm confused because it seems so but how since they are same surface prep but ops has a higher cover? Is it core?
It depends on what you consider above. As for price point, yes the Drift is above the Special Ops. The reason is because the Special Ops is using a proven core that has been out for quite some time now. As far as I know the Drift has a new cover/core combo and will be in the tour preferred series. Now as far as ball reaction, I will not know until I throw both of them. I expect the Special Ops to be a pinch smoother than the Drift.
The Drift is using the Hula core which has been used recently in the Rip/It. Previous to that it was first introduced in the OMG Pearl (Jun 2011), then in the Black Mamba (Feb 2012). So it was first designed and used in AMF balls. The numbers on the Drift are almost identical to the Black Mamba with the Drift having a weaker cover. The Rip/It was a great ball to move in with and open the lanes up as the lanes opened up. Definitely had a good backend motion. So definitely not a new core design. As for the cover, to my knowledge we haven't seen a S62 hybrid. The Clutch Pearl had F62 pearl. So cover wise, I am intrigued.
-
I was always under the impression that the Sxx-Covers were representative of their strength within the lineup. Not that S70 from 4 years ago is the same S70 from this year's pours. Is this true?
-
Is the drift above the special ops? I'm confused because it seems so but how since they are same surface prep but ops has a higher cover? Is it core?
It depends on what you consider above. As for price point, yes the Drift is above the Special Ops. The reason is because the Special Ops is using a proven core that has been out for quite some time now. As far as I know the Drift has a new cover/core combo and will be in the tour preferred series. Now as far as ball reaction, I will not know until I throw both of them. I expect the Special Ops to be a pinch smoother than the Drift.
The Drift is using the Hula core which has been used recently in the Rip/It. Previous to that it was first introduced in the OMG Pearl (Jun 2011), then in the Black Mamba (Feb 2012). So it was first designed and used in AMF balls. The numbers on the Drift are almost identical to the Black Mamba with the Drift having a weaker cover. The Rip/It was a great ball to move in with and open the lanes up as the lanes opened up. Definitely had a good backend motion. So definitely not a new core design. As for the cover, to my knowledge we haven't seen a S62 hybrid. The Clutch Pearl had F62 pearl. So cover wise, I am intrigued.
It started with the C300 action attack & big shot... modified by taking out the middle ring....for the said following balls.
I remember...cuz I used to be the Columbia fanatic back in the dizzay.
-
bill, you are correct. I totally forgot. Definitely a Columbia 300 throwback.
-
bill, you are correct. I totally forgot. Definitely a Columbia 300 throwback.
None the less keep the throwback cores coming! Everyone likes em!
-
On the downside, they just discontinued quite a bit. Personaly I'll miss the Respect and Dream...
-
Special Ops will be in my bag next season!
-
I do apologize if I have mislead anyone. I did not notice that the core in the drift is from previous releases. Cover is new. I am hoping this ball gives us a different look than what we have had in our Tour Series lineup. If I can be of any other help please let me know. Should be receiving the new stuff I believe in the next two weeks.
-
Curt you didnt mislead lol, it's allllllll good
-
Wanna see the ball motion of the high end stuff. I k ow what the other stuff rolls like!
-
I do apologize if I have mislead anyone. I did not notice that the core in the drift is from previous releases. Cover is new. I am hoping this ball gives us a different look than what we have had in our Tour Series lineup. If I can be of any other help please let me know. Should be receiving the new stuff I believe in the next two weeks.
Curt, its all good. I can't wait to get back and start drilling. Until then I will have to rely on everyone here to hear how they roll. I will truly miss the Dream and Respect series. Hopefully we hear some reports back from some of the guys that go to nationals later.
-
Well Bowlersmart just put up videos of the Drift and Special Ops. I have to say the Drift looked pretty good on the lanes. Granted its just one video, but I could probably make room for one of those this fall
-
Both videos look great.I have a black ops it always goes to tournaments with me.Hard to beat that core on medium patterns.For the money the Special OPS and Black Ops are the best deal on a asymmetric ball for medium patterns.If you have not tried the break core you need to.
-
Inception and Truth vids are up now.
-
I wonder how the Spec Ops would compare to the Hammer Dark Legend as a ball down from the Haywire when it starts to burn up. Any thoughts?
-
Probably cleaner...
-
I wonder how the Spec Ops would compare to the Hammer Dark Legend as a ball down from the Haywire when it starts to burn up. Any thoughts?
Spec Ops should be a little less ball than the Dark Legend. Probably a little more length and backend