Author Topic: AMF Venom (Read 8321 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** March 18, 2009, 11:14:52 AM »

Does anyone have any info about the AMF Venom? I'm looking for a medium - medium light oil ball that is super smooth. Not jumpy off the dry and not over skidding in oil.
this ball looked like it had good stats from BTM and they also ranked it pretty good for a PBA sport shot. Can't find any videos anywhere..
Other contenders are the Villian or the Heist.. Also what are the 3 different heists that are out there?

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2009, 04:26:10 PM »

quote:
I think the Villain and the Creature are the type of ball that will handle medium AND medium-light oil well, but their smoothness depends on both your release AND the drilling. I had a Creature and the drilling I chose was not optimum for me. It was so even, I had killed the hitting power for my release.
The Creature is slightly more even reacting overall than the Villain, IN MY EYES.

The Creature solid can be a ball to suit you, but the driller MUST match your style with the ball and the oil pattern. (Just calling it medium oil or medium-light oil doesn't mean all mediums are the same pattern. Shorter lengths of oil and drier backends cause many balls to have a sharp and almost uncontrollable backend.)
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

for sure about the drilling.. my Neptune is like that.. light oil ball but put some oil up front and a decent backend and that thing is one of the sharpest breaking balls I have seen.. but on a driershot it is super smooth..

the creature was also recommended to me by the AMF tech rep. He seemed to think the villian would be a better choice and is better if I do need to change the surface..

what layout did you have on your creature.. even is what I want.. my style lends more to skid flip so more even is better for what I want out of this ball..

do you think a rico drill would be smooth with no backend jump?? It would be 5 1/2 pin to pap for me..

so what do you classify the Venom??

and Thanks for your help

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

tenpin · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2009, 04:50:43 PM »

I would agree with charlest on the Creature. I also had to pass mine down as it did not match up to my style. I had mine drilled 4 X 4 3/4 and it was very even. You could probably go with the Creature and get your desired reaction. I don't know about how a rico would react as I have only had 1 rico and did not like the reaction for my game and never tried it again. Also has Charlest has said you need to let you driller decide how to drill the ball for what you want.
I have been experimenting with stronger equipment and a 3 3/8 X 3 3/8 drilling. That has worked out for me as it is not jumping on the conditions I have been throwing on and it still is retaining enough energy to carry. I currently have a Break Solid and a AMF Radar Alert drilled that way and have shot a 823 with the Break Solid and a 300 with the Radar Alert shootin 10-5 on a medium league shot. Radar Alert was on house condition and Break 823 was on a drier tournament pattern playing 20-10 shot 277, 277, 269 in match play. I also have a Villian coming anyday with that same drilling on it. I only mention this because if you trust you driller he can drill anything to do what you want it to do.
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com

charlest · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2009, 04:55:01 PM »

quote:

the creature was also recommended to me by the AMF tech rep. He seemed to think the villian would be a better choice and is better if I do need to change the surface..

The core on the Creature is the old Pulse core - very even.

quote:

what layout did you have on your creature.. even is what I want.. my style lends more to skid flip so more even is better for what I want out of this ball..

My PAP is only 4 1/2" over, no up/down.
I had pin directly under ring finger and CG kicked out about an inch further, towards the PAP than the pin. No weight hole.
If I had to do it over, I would have put the pin in the ring and stacked the CG below it. Realize I have very little tilt right now. I can make flippier balls slightly more even, easily.

quote:

do you think a rico drill would be smooth with no backend jump?? It would be 5 1/2 pin to pap for me..

I'd worry it was too smooth. This is already an even reacting ball. it's not super smooth like a Visionary Blue Green Centaur or similar ball, but it is smooth.

quote:

so what do you classify the Venom??

I'd classify it as a medium only ball for the average bowler (avg revs, avg ball speed) with an average drilling. It's almost a special purpose ball to my way of thinking. If your oil pattern holds up with only slight moves (1-2 boards max), then it can work wonderfully asa benchmark. A particle pearl is often very much like a polished solid resin ball, in that regard.

quote:

and Thanks for your help

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Thank me if and when it works. Till then, all bets are off.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2009, 05:01:12 PM »

quote:
I would agree with charlest on the Creature. I also had to pass mine down as it did not match up to my style. I had mine drilled 4 X 4 3/4 and it was very even. You could probably go with the Creature and get your desired reaction. I don't know about how a rico would react as I have only had 1 rico and did not like the reaction for my game and never tried it again. Also has Charlest has said you need to let you driller decide how to drill the ball for what you want.
I have been experimenting with stronger equipment and a 3 3/8 X 3 3/8 drilling. That has worked out for me as it is not jumping on the conditions I have been throwing on and it still is retaining enough energy to carry. I currently have a Break Solid and a AMF Radar Alert drilled that way and have shot a 823 with the Break Solid and a 300 with the Radar Alert shootin 10-5 on a medium league shot. Radar Alert was on house condition and Break 823 was on a drier tournament pattern playing 20-10 shot 277, 277, 269 in match play. I also have a Villian coming anyday with that same drilling on it. I only mention this because if you trust you driller he can drill anything to do what you want it to do.
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com

I think the drill will be important on this ball. As I drill most of my stuff over 5 inches pin to pap because I need the length. On a weaker ball such as this I may be able to go leverage and even though this is a strong drilling it should smooth out the backend more than a long pin and not be too strong because of the nature of the cover.. I could also go with a shorter 2 - 2.5 inch pin to pap but I dont' know about that. Those type of drills tend to be super condition specific for me.. like a last chance when nothing else works type of thing..

I think I am leaning toward the Villain.. Even though it sounds like the creature is smoother it sounds like it is smoother because it handles less oil and any amount of oil will kill the hook. And like I said .. The AMF guy thinks the Villain will handle changes better without changing the look of the hook too much.. ie dulling smoother and higher grit snappier.. He seems to think it will just create more friction and less friction vs the creature that will get pretty snappy when you shine it up.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2009, 05:03:59 PM »

quote:
Quote

Thank me if and when it works. Till then, all bets are off.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

You have helped me in numerous other ways so you deserve the thanks anyway.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2009, 05:06:22 PM »

quote:
quote:

Quote

do you think a rico drill would be smooth with no backend jump?? It would be 5 1/2 pin to pap for me..

I'd worry it was too smooth. This is already an even reacting ball. it's not super smooth like a Visionary Blue Green Centaur or similar ball, but it is smooth.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

So if I go with the Villain, what layout would you suggest?
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2009, 06:02:03 PM »

I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2009, 06:19:39 PM »

quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

qstick777 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2009, 09:43:41 PM »

Hmmmm, no love for the Code or the Heist?

I thought they were 2 of the smoothest balls in the AMF family? Are they too much for a medium to medium-light shot? Or they too difficult to find?
--------------------
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Search Ballreviews entire database here

"The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose."

"Government is not the solution to our problems - government is the problem."

charlest · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2009, 11:16:22 PM »

quote:
quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

If you think you have the hand for a Rico drilled Creature, fine.
I don't know how much tilt or rotation you have and those are important factors in putting a "smoothing" drill on a smooth reacting ball.

I was going suggest something like pin in the 4" - 4.5" range, with a PAP-pin-CG angle of about 45 - 50 degree range. Pin about 1.5-2" above the midline.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2009, 12:58:50 AM »

quote:
Hmmmm, no love for the Code or the Heist?

I thought they were 2 of the smoothest balls in the AMF family? Are they too much for a medium to medium-light shot? Or they too difficult to find?
--------------------
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Search Ballreviews entire database here

"The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose."

"Government is not the solution to our problems - government is the problem."

They were on the list.. I just thought they were too much for medium
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2009, 01:02:41 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

If you think you have the hand for a Rico drilled Creature, fine.
I don't know how much tilt or rotation you have and those are important factors in putting a "smoothing" drill on a smooth reacting ball.

I was going suggest something like pin in the 4" - 4.5" range, with a PAP-pin-CG angle of about 45 - 50 degree range. Pin about 1.5-2" above the midline.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

I don't have much tilt but do have a high deg of axis rotation.. and decent revs.. when I put my hand into a ball I generally have more of a problem with the ball coming up too strong or too early...
I wish I had the ball tonight.. I think it would have worked perfectly..
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2009, 01:13:09 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

If you think you have the hand for a Rico drilled Creature, fine.
I don't know how much tilt or rotation you have and those are important factors in putting a "smoothing" drill on a smooth reacting ball.

I was going suggest something like pin in the 4" - 4.5" range, with a PAP-pin-CG angle of about 45 - 50 degree range. Pin about 1.5-2" above the midline.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

and why the creature over the villain again..?? Just cause it is smoother in your opinion? Is it smoother cause is skids more in oil or smoother because the dynamics of the core and cover as it rolls..??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2009, 01:37:39 PM »

The Creature has the old Pulse core with less flare than the Villain's core.
The Villain has the old Track Elite/Dyno-Thane Vendetta core which is much flippier. The Villain also has a slightly stronger coverstock rating 45 vs 40. The coverstocks are so close, as to be indistinguishable if they were wrapped around the same core. It is and will be inherently more flippy in its general reaction than the Creature.

You wanted smooth/smoother. The Creature is, in my opinion, smoother than the Villain.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 3/20/2009 1:41 PM

Author Topic: AMF Venom (Read 8321 times)

J_w73

AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

tenpin

Re: AMF Venom

charlest

Re: AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

charlest

Re: AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

qstick777

Re: AMF Venom

charlest

Re: AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

J_w73

Re: AMF Venom

charlest

Re: AMF Venom