win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: The roads of an Arsenal  (Read 3820 times)

GentGnoll

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • I Like to roll things. Shiny things...!
The roads of an Arsenal
« on: September 27, 2018, 02:55:59 AM »
[Iíll include a TL:DR for those wanting to get to the point fast. I figured the more input I give, the better picture you all have on my game and situation. Thus better which ball to go with]

Hello all!
I have been lurking on these forums for a better part of a year now, and Iíve been meaning to get active in a couple of bowling communities including this one. About the same time, decided to give bowling a worth while shot from playing casually on and off with a conventional #16 spare ball. Picked up a #15 Wreck-it fingertip to learn how to hook the ball by PSOís recommendation. Fell in love with the sport for its puzzle like charm, and the physics at play. Probably considered a part of the younger generation of bowlers today (think late twenties, early thirties)

A blurb about my progress:
I guess I would be between novice and amateur. A 160-180 average. Iíve done a good deal of progress in getting my rev rate up to what its now from 280. Getting better at having a consistent speed, as well as the general uphill battle of fine tuning my form so I can get consistent shots. I am still fighting some of bad habits ingrained from throwing conventional (like tugging on down swing). Spare shooting is getting to be on point save for a few hiccups; I do shoot my spares with rolling any ball end over end like Norm Duke does. Practicing, and nerding out on anything technical related, and anything information related that could potentially help my game thatís free and available on the internet. Still want to increase my rev rate a bit more, but that will come with time from what Iíve heard from others. Would like a bit more tilt on my release, but I know I should perfect the basics first. Practice 2-3 times a week: Subbing one day, next is cheap bowling day, and going to a bowlerís clinic for the third.

The situation:
Iíll try to keep this simple Ė I want to get another ball to compliment my Wreck-it. Looking for something a bit stronger so I can play and practice with deeper angles, while keeping my Wreck-it happy at playing straighter angles. Either Keep the wreck-it as a first ball out of bag, or have it more of a light oil ball with some polish. I am looking at 4 balls, two from Motiv, Two from 900 Global: Wanting to give either company a try.  I do want to emphasize I do want to get a ball that will do good on sport patterns, and not just House shots

A quick blurb of my stats:
[General Ďpower strokerí type I guess]
PAP: 4-5/8" R - 15/16" up  |  Avg. speed: 16.30 mpg  |   Est. Rev rate: 320  | 
Axis Tilt: 7-9*? (Track flare is next to thumb hole)


900 Global:

-Truth tour could dig into the heavy middle part of the THS that the wreck-it couldnít do. Controllable.
-Tactical ops might be the ticket if I want to play at the 3rd and 4th arrow and the right side is burnt up.

Motiv:
-Villain has made a name for itself for being a THS killer and does well on sport patterns. Received high praise from Tamer bowling. Very strong of a ball for the money.
-Rogue blade has a quick response to friction, and low RG might give me some added versatility to a small two ball arsenal (for now). Might be best of both worlds between the tactical ops, and the villain.

The problem is each ball gives me some hesitation. Truth Tour and villain both have some pretty high RG numbers like my wreck-it. should I be concerned? Possible slow response to friction from either? Rogue blade might be too jerky off the spot, and seems to be a mixed bag comparing reviews from Tamer Bowling and Motivmags. Tactical Ops has gotten some high praise locally, and by my eye it has a pretty reliable motion for being a skid-snap ball, but havenít really gotten a lot of in depth info on it . I worry with it being a strong A-sym, would it be too uncontrollable for an amateur to handle?

So sorry that this was a long read! I feel there are different roads to take depending on which ball to pickup. So many options! Love to hear different theories on arsenal strategies and corresponding layouts too.

[TLDR]
Hey wonderful bowing community!
160 Ė 180 avg. power stroker looking for second reactive in a two ball arsenal to learn and grow in the sport of bowling. Looking at 900 Globalís Tactical ops and Truth tour, and Motivís Rogue blade and Villain. Which one would best compliment my style currently, and my RG Wreck-it for House shots, and sport shots as I get better? Just going to keep it at a two-ball arsenal to learn on for now.

I know I may have a bad habit of 'thinking too much', but thank you for reading and for any help you can offer!

Edit: typos & Formatting
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 03:38:25 AM by GentGnoll »

 

Impending Doom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5843
  • #900Global
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 09:03:09 AM »
Well, hi there new guy! Welcome to ballreviews!

I can't speak on the Motiv side, but let me break down your 900 Global choices.

Truth Tour: This is going to be a very smooth even rolling ball. If your Wreck-It is smooth, this is going to keep the same look, only handle more oil in the fronts. I like my Truth Tour drilled strong 4*30 with surface.

Tactical Ops: First off, everyone needs an Ops in the bag. That being said, this is the ball you want if you want to step left and throw right. Learning to open your angles will be easier when you have a ball that will respond fast to friction. Harder to control, yes, but there's always a learning curve.

If I also may mention the Honey Badger, if you want to be able to learn to get left and go around the pattern, it might be a bit more controllable for someone learning because it's not such a strong assym, but it will giddy up around the corner better than most.
2019-20 900 Global Advisory Staffer

Go Global or Go Home!
-------------------------------------------------------------------

GentGnoll

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • I Like to roll things. Shiny things...!
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2018, 12:35:27 AM »
Actually the wreck-it is a bit on the angular side. Hybrid coverstock: 1 part solid, 2 parts pearl. Off the pattern it makes this chugging hard arch to the pocket. It might be my benefit to get the truth tour in that case to create different shapes on the lane.

I realize, as much as it looks fun to throw the tactical ops, I might have to go with the truth tour. Ill be facing wet/dry, and carry down situations. Had some over under with wreck-it at times. Also read that the best to tackle both is getting a controllable solid to 'blend the pattern', or not having something over react off the pattern. Something of that sort. Not sure if I need to worry about that with the tactical ops though especially if I take the polish off with a 3000 pad. Otherwise.. It may be the truth tour.

Can't blame you recommending the HB. Never heard one bad thing about it in both my alley and on the internet. Just worried as Ill have two 'light oil balls' in that case. I think I'll fare better with the tactical ops if I go the a-sym pearl. You have a point as its going to be a learning curve no matter how I look at it, and I might as well learn to handle some of the bigger pieces companies offer than shy away from it.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 12:41:09 AM by GentGnoll »

2handedrook12

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1617
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2018, 12:37:47 AM »
I don't really consider th Wreck It skid flip. You could definitely sloe it doen a touch with an abralon pad to blend the wet dry better. Then that would open the door for a Honey Badger or Tactical Ops. Honey Badger is my favorite ball to throw right now and is exactly as described above. Just feel the Truth Tour is too slow to compliment a Wreck It. I think very highly of the Truth Tour if you need a ball for wet dry conditions.
Main Rotation: Verdict, Covert Ops, Respect, Match Up Black
Up next: Eon, Phaze 2
Interest:

GentGnoll

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • I Like to roll things. Shiny things...!
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2018, 07:01:38 AM »
I appreciate the added info, 2handedrook.
I'm probably using the wrong terminology, So apologies there. I agree the Wreck-it isn't a skid flip, and perhaps the term 'angular' wasn't apt. I guess I would call it a 'late hook ball' where the back end is more rounded than angular. It does currently have some surface: 2000 with some lane shine.

You've kind of described my dilemma between the two balls that I am currently in. The house shot can really get burnt up on the right side of the lane in my ally during league (from boards 6 to 17 I think). So.. get a Truth Tour for that wet dry, but, as you said, its might be a bit slow in response like my wreck-it. Sure It can handle more oil, has a great showing in tournaments, but as you hinted at, it might be too similar to my first ball, thus I should go with the tactical ops.

With all that's said, you make a good case with the two. Perhaps just a resurface is needed at a 500 or 1000 > 2000 grit combo with the Wreck-it, and pick up the tactical ops and knock off the polish at 3000. From there I could get a third ball in between them if I needed down the road. Would that be the best choice going forward then? I'll take another look at the Honey badger just in case too.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 01:29:51 AM by GentGnoll »

billdozer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4348
  • Goin' Global!
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 10:13:53 AM »
I came because I thought this was a clever HY-"ROAD" post.

Anyways, welcome!
In the bag ['15 Respect, Respect Pearl, Honey Badger, Break Down, Black boost]
*Now Testing* EON, '15 Respect Hybrid, Boo-Yah, Teal HB
Coming soon....Dream On, Infrared, WHBadger

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10360
  • Seitan Worshipper
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 08:23:46 PM »
As for your Motiv choices, I own and use both. However, for your first Motiv ball, get a Venom Shock. The original not the pearl. It will have orange logos. Its the best ball Motiv has made and will work on house and sport conditions. The last four years, the Venom Shock has been in my bag for the USBC Open Championships aka "Nationals". It will cost you less and you will have a ball that will work on a wider range of patterns
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

GentGnoll

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • I Like to roll things. Shiny things...!
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 02:06:03 AM »
I thought this was a clever HY-"ROAD" post.

Ah! A missed opportunity on my part! Clever eye though. I do love me some puns!  ;D

@milorafferty
I'll admit I love the orange and purple of the venom shock Solid. However It feels like its in that same boat as the honey badger recommendation. Being too similar to my Wreck-it: A Light-ish oil ball, but maybe that's just marketing tools or some such that I should over look. Well aware of the hype and definitely a consideration.
-  Just watched some videos on it. Love the shape. Definitely can play in more with a fairly strong layout. This might compliment the wreck-it more in terms of giving me more of a different shape. I see why this is a go to for a benchmark ball. Is the venom shock solid more of a situation of strong cover-stock + weak-ish core?

- Watched the Honey badger. Granted I am a novice at reading ball reaction but I see the appeal. Its got that happy medium of angle with out being overly jerky off the spot with what you were saying Impending-doom: Controllable. A 2-piece ball being another boon. I am curious if its able to handle longer patterns or heavier areas of oil. Maybe thats not the purpose of these skid-snap types.

glad I kept my options limited. Definitely making it hard to make a choice, and I find that to be a good thing. Especially for considerations down the road.  :o

Honey badger - Tactical ops - Venom Shock Solid: Too much good stuff (That i am considering)  ;D
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:13:19 AM by GentGnoll »

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10360
  • Seitan Worshipper
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 12:12:18 PM »
I thought this was a clever HY-"ROAD" post.



Ah! A missed opportunity on my part! Clever eye though. I do love me some puns!  ;D

@milorafferty
I'll admit I love the orange and purple of the venom shock Solid. However It feels like its in that same boat as the honey badger recommendation. Being too similar to my Wreck-it: A Light-ish oil ball, but maybe that's just marketing tools or some such that I should over look. Well aware of the hype and definitely a consideration.
-  Just watched some videos on it. Love the shape. Definitely can play in more with a fairly strong layout. This might compliment the wreck-it more in terms of giving me more of a different shape. I see why this is a go to for a benchmark ball. Is the venom shock solid more of a situation of strong cover-stock + weak-ish core?

- Watched the Honey badger. Granted I am a novice at reading ball reaction but I see the appeal. Its got that happy medium of angle with out being overly jerky off the spot with what you were saying Impending-doom: Controllable. A 2-piece ball being another boon. I am curious if its able to handle longer patterns or heavier areas of oil. Maybe thats not the purpose of these skid-snap types.

glad I kept my options limited. Definitely making it hard to make a choice, and I find that to be a good thing. Especially for considerations down the road.  :o

Honey badger - Tactical ops - Venom Shock Solid: Too much good stuff (That i am considering)  ;D

If you put a 2K surface on the Venom Shock, it will handle some oil just fine. I haven't tried it myself, but I've seen it being used at 1000 grit and it handled Badger as well as any of the other big oilers being used at the same event.

Motiv seems to have a problem with how they classify where their balls should be in the line up. At box finish, the Venom Shock is at the very least a Light to Medium oil ball for most people and a true Medium for anyone with more than a rev rate of 150-200.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

SVstar34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4904
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 12:22:37 PM »
With what's been said in this thread already I'd stay towards the Venom Shock or Truth Tour if you want to handle a little heavier oil. But like Milo said, the Venom Shock can handle oil just fine with correct surface prep.

I'm very familiar with the Brunswick and DV8 brands. I'd 100% recommend the DV8 Turmoil Solid if you're open to other suggestions. But you can't go wrong with what's already been mentioned
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 12:25:13 PM by SVstar34 »
Harley's Simi Bowl (Simi Valley, CA)
Sunset West (St George, UT)

<a href="http://valentinobowling-com.3dcartstores.com/?AffId=3">Click here to visit Valentino Bowling</a>

GentGnoll

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • I Like to roll things. Shiny things...!
Re: The roads of an Arsenal
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2018, 07:29:48 AM »
Welp. I guess its time to open it to a three ball arsenal.  :o

@SVstar
I appreciate the suggestion, but I think I've made up my mind at this point. I did take a look just to see, and was surprised how much performance for the price. I could see it staying up on DV8's lineup for a while. DV8, and Big B might not be on my radar, but Radical I've been keeping an eye on. Been doing my best to learn from Mo Pinel and his information segments on the videos he puts out. Definitely see myself giving Radical a try down the road. I hate turning down suggestions when I know you're trying to help me save a bit of cash. I do thank you for that though. <3

Overall
I think I'll get to a three ball arsenal in the near future. I don't see the Venom shock solid being dropped anytime soon, so I think it'll be safe to pick up the tactical ops first and fit the venom shock in between the two to give me a good all around arsenal. Setting up an arsenal by response time with slow (Wreck-it), medium (venom shock), and fast (tactical ops) to play various angles in a lot of conditions. This is something I've learned from Tom Sorce over on his YT channel, and I hope this is a safe theory to put into motion.

For clarity, I am laying out what I have in mind for each ball:
 
RG Wreck-it          | 4000 Polish | 3" pin to pap       | Current ball (light oil)
Motiv Venom Sock |  2000 Grit   | 3-5/8" pin to pap | Benchmark  (med oil)
9G Tactical ops     |  3000 grit   | 4 or 4-3/8" P.T.P  | skid-snap    (med-heavy oil)

As far as layouts are concerned I am completely open to recommendations for both balls. I am most familiar with the double angle layout system, and still trying to wrap my head around storm's layout system. If something doesn't look right, let me know. The pin to pap is my best guess with each ball (aside from the wreck it). Other wise I'll just go by what my PSO recommends.

Thanks again for everyone helping me in this lengthy en-devour of mine.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 07:32:15 AM by GentGnoll »