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Author Topic: Summer Ball Talk  (Read 7118 times)

BrunsBob

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Summer Ball Talk
« on: July 28, 2006, 01:40:50 AM »
Hello All,

  I just want to share a few things about how we came about our ball releases for this summer. There have been way to many negative responses on here to let rumors continue. We don't normally share business practices on forums like this, but there are some things that can be mentioned that might help all of you understand our position.

  First and foremost is our move to Mexico for production. I will not discuss the whys, just the effects on production this summer. With our move we will now begin manufacturing our own cores instead of having them made for us. Our R & D team, on top of trying to design balls, has spent the past year designing a core production room, so any advancements in cores had to be put on hold for the time being due to lack of time. Because of this, it was necessary for us to continue to use cores that we knew were already proven and that we could still have made for us as needed until the day comes that we are actually in production of our own cores.

  That brings me to the actual balls we released. First, the Wizard. Yes, it was designed to specifically replace the Nemisis, which we felt was a great performance that just needed updating so shops could have something new and fresh to sell. They asked for it and we delivered. With that being said, we still feel that we see a slight difference in ball reaction, most likely due to color change. Second, the Red Zone. We felt this line needed a new look cosmetically and we felt we could create a reaction similar to the successful Zone Classic, yet keep it in a solid coverstock with more versatility. Again, we feel the color change has affected the reaction of this ball compared to a Strike Zone with the cover shined to copy that of the Red. Both balls reactions look terrific, and the success stories still pour in on a weekly basis. On top of that, Pro Shops are pleased that we gave them 2 good looking balls with catchy names that are easily marketable.

  Then there is the Radical, our first ball to come out of Mexico only. Again we stuck with a core that we have proven and that we are able to tweak to create RG and Diff numbers that worked well with our new coverstock. The Octane coverstock is an Activator base material that we advanced so much that we could not manufacture it in Muskegon with the older machinery. We have worked on this cover for a few years, just couldn't run with it yet, until now. I think this ball, with it's extreme versatility in coverstock, will be the hit release of the season. We experimented with this ball at the Mini-Eliminator tournament with all styles of bowlers, using a multitude of surface changes and layouts. Most impressive thing was that no matter how much we dulled it down for the oily conditions, it never burned up early on the pattern. It was still clean through the front with even better midlane reaction and strong on the back. That's hard to create with a dull surface, and it was not just because of the amount of oil on the lanes. Some guys were still able to use the ball shiny on the same lanes with success. We were able to match each ball up to each bowler to create the reaction needed. On top of that, it was our first ball ever to be a combination of more than 2 colors. I think we came up with a great color with our first ball to use this new technology.

  I hope most of you did not feel we were dodging the questions about the Wizard and Red Zone just being the same balls re-released under new names and looks. We felt we answered those questions when asked....not attacked. We try not to discuss the specifics of our business on these boards, we just hoped that the balls would speak for themselves. There are numerous factors that go into each and every new release, and we do not want to share all that information on public forums. Believe me, we knew these balls would not be for everyone, they never are. We just knew what shops wanted and what bowlers could have success with and we made them.

  As the months go on, and production in Mexico gets to full force, you will see new and exciting technology from us. We knew this would be a very difficult transition to make while still continuing to stick to our scheduled releases. We are very pleased to say that we hit these hurdles in full stride and met our objectives......now we move forward in a very strong way.

  Thank You very much to all the loyalists that have stuck by us and defended our honor during this transition. And to all the naysayers, we apologize for any discomfort and confusion we have caused you. We want to help every bowler out there, but we will not respond to negative attacks made in such childish manners on these forums. We feel it is very unprofessional to do so.

Regards,

  Robert Lawrence
  Product Specialist - SW
  Brunswick Bowling - Consumer Division


Edited on 7/28/2006 9:59 AM

 

KDawg77

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2006, 02:59:52 PM »
Ouch, babe. Very ouch. LOL

I've never argued against the Big B moving or the current "Nem/Wiz" and "Red/Strike" hullaballo.
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HamPster

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2006, 03:06:34 PM »
Lol, I'll add (now that I've visited the site and found everything I wanted to know . .) that I'd LOOOOVE to see that kind of oil they have in those videos.  The guy throwing the ball puts a fair amount on the ball and doesn't throw it too fast.  Lol, our lanes got checked earlier this year, (only 7 year old Brunswick Anvilane, still the newest nicest house in town) and were illegal for lack of oil . .
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shelley

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 04:02:39 PM »
quote:
quote:
What is the latest fad anyway?

Multi-colored balls.


I don't know if I'd call multi-color balls a "fad".  

SH

shelley

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 04:09:06 PM »
quote:
SH,
Great question regarding multi-density cores.  We'd really like to respond to it in detail, but unfortunately, we would be giving away our trade secrets.  
...
I fear "not answering" your question because of the recent posts from the past 3 or 4 days, but this is how I must respond.  


No problem(o).  Wouldn't want you to give away any secrets.  Just curious.

I don't know if you can answer this or not, but what are the advantages or disadvantages to multi-density cores?  I know several other companies have them, and I'm sure you guys have done tests, but are there things that you can do as a ball designer with a multi-density core that can't be done with a single-density core (of the same or different shape)?  I can see the advantage to something like Visionary's AMB core where the "MB" is really created by a light-weight cap that "adds" mass to the other side of the ball.  But it seems like it's more expensive to make complex multi-density weight blocks since the parts have to be made separately and then joined together in a second step.

SH

shelley

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2006, 04:13:32 PM »
quote:
Hey, I've been out of the loop for a while . . what's the coverstock on the Radical?  Pearl, solid, or particle?  


I believe it's a pearl reactive.  The oldest balls in the Inferno line are the Absolute and Smokin' and they're both pearls, so I'd imagine that when replacement time comes around, that's what they'd replace it with.

SH

BrunsBob

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2006, 08:07:34 PM »
shelly,

  Regardless of how "fancy" a core may look with multiple parts, in the end all that matters is the "numbers" created. If you have a 2.50 RG with a .050 Diff. created by a single piece core and you have the same numbers in a 3 or 4 piece core, the results are the same. The numbers are what matter, so why risk the chance of core seperation or cracking caused by these multiple pieces.

  That is pretty much our stance on it.

Rob LAW

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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.

shelley

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2006, 08:42:57 PM »
quote:
 Regardless of how "fancy" a core may look with multiple parts, in the end all that matters is the "numbers" created. If you have a 2.50 RG with a .050 Diff. created by a single piece core and you have the same numbers in a 3 or 4 piece core, the results are the same. The numbers are what matter, so why risk the chance of core seperation or cracking caused by these multiple pieces.

  That is pretty much our stance on it.


In that case, why bother creating different cores?  If the numbers dictate the core's influence, why have two cores with the same numbers?  If you've got one 2.50/0.050 core, why bother designing another one?  Certainly you've had such cores in the past, so what was the motivation for creating another one for the Inferno?

I'm sorry, but that statement implies that shape doesn't matter, only the numbers, and I can't believe that.  You've had much more experience and have access to scientific data that I don't, so I'll concede that you have the upper hand here, but it just doesn't seem right.

SH

HamPster

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2006, 09:24:10 PM »
I've heard other people discussing core stuff, and changing core shape is somewhat like changing coverstock color or ball names.  It's more marketing than it is actually important . .  Differently shaped cores do give them different areas to disperse the weight differently, but they can do all kinds of things with just one core by changing densities, etc., they really don't need to keep introducing cores that look so different.  They could do very similar things with say the Raging Red Fuze core and the Inferno core, but just as people would tire with cheesy or overused names (such as most of the X-Factor line), don't you think people would start to whine about companies continually using the "same" core?
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Xfest

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2006, 09:34:21 PM »
All i can say about the core, is that alot of people love it.

so why change if it is a hit?
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ÈĻ Arsenèl
Track Mean Machine (Heavy)
Lane #1 Dirty Bomb (Med-Heavy)
Track Machine (Medium)
Brunswick Original Inferno (Light-Med)
Track Desert Heat (Light)
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I throw it all, just give me a ball, I'll throw it. =]


Edited on 7/28/2006 9:30 PM
- Kenny "The Kid" Skidmore
The Bowler's Shop, Anderson IN
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Inferno_256

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2006, 09:43:04 PM »
Are we going to see anything with the original Activator pearl coverstock on it in the future?
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sdbowler

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2006, 10:08:10 PM »
To all Brunswick employees thanks for giving out as much info on equipment that you can. I know there are employees from other companies on here but it seems like you guys post the most. I think we all owe them a big THANK YOU for coming on here and helping out. If only that BrunsPro guy would be on more. Once again to ALL Brunswick employees thanks guys.
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DON DRAPER

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2006, 10:10:39 PM »
i for one am thankful when any employee of brunswick takes the time to respond in this forum.

shelley

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2006, 10:53:15 PM »
quote:
1. Will there be future releases in the Zone line using the modified asymmetrical Danger Zone core and newer Inferno coverstocks (Advance, Max, Octane), or is the Vapor the end of the line?


It took a while for the Strike Zone to come out compared to when the UI came out, so it's possible there may a while before another sanded solid Zone comes out to replace the SZ.  I'd guess '07 before such a ball was released.

quote:
2. Will there be a solid sanded Octane ball at some point in the next 6 - 12 months as a Scorchin' replacement (or to stand on its own, whatever)?
 

Again, if they follow anything like the pattern for the Infernos in the past,...

quote:
3. The ability to do multi-colored particle balls has been touted about the new factory. Will we see such a ball next season? If so, are we talking high-end line, mid-end line, or...?


For the company that developed proactive/particle covers, they sure are shying away from them.  I don't know if it was because of the shame of only being able to make single-color particles or if they don't feel the need for it (I disagree, particles have a place at nearly all points in an arsenal), but the next few months will probably tell a lot about that.

What I want to see is a ball with the swirl patterns that the Radical core pic has.  Streaks going around the equator of the ball a la Jupiter.

quote:
4. Will there be a new core design in a Brunswick-branded ball this season?


Wouldn't be surprising.  As great as the Inferno and Zone cores are, as well as the BVP Bell core, there are only so many ways you can put the same covers on them before they get stale.  I agree with the release of the Wizard, but if the only updates they do to the BVP line are color refreshes, I'll be disappointed.  New cores are always exciting.  I'm sure they have something planned.

quote:
6. This is an honest question, not trying to p1ss anybody off...if I sand a Red Zone to the box finish of the Strike Zone, assuming all other factors being equal, will I see the same reaction as compared to a box Strike Zone?


A recent post by Bob (?) indicated that there would be slight differences.

SH

DP3

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2006, 11:05:18 PM »
N-Control w/ Low R.G. please.
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Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game


Edited on 7/28/2006 11:00 PM

BrunsBob

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Re: Summer Ball Talk
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2006, 08:44:52 AM »
shelly,

  I don't believe I said "shape" doesn't matter, only that we can create the same numbers without using multiple pieces. The shape does matter and a few responses hit it dead on about densities.

twoheadedboy,

  All good questions, but you are right, we cannot divuldge our plans for future releases at this time. As for the tweaking of the Red Zone cover to match that of the Strike Zone, you should see a very similar reaction, but like we've said before, we feel the color difference will show a slight difference on the lanes.

To All,

  I know it's a proven fact that every response creates new questions. As I have responded as much as I can about what we did this summer, there are numerous questions that pop up about where we go from here that I cannot comment on. Please do not see this lack of response as dodging or dancing around the questions. I don't know many businesses that would leak info that might either make their competition make a move or set our own selves up for being accused of disception if we failed to stick to that plan. As I do appreciate the interest and very sharp questions, I just hope you'll hang in there as we continue to impress you with our equipment.

Thanks All,

  RoB LAW

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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.