Author Topic: Covers (Read 4224 times)

icefiction · « **on:** July 15, 2007, 07:42:30 AM »

Does anyone know when Columbia 300 will give more descriptive information about their new covers; ie. pearl or solid or particle.

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2007, 02:50:31 AM »

Well there is only two things I am sure about when it comes to the new covers. The first thing is that seeing how they are Ebonite covers, these are probly reactives and not particles. I don't recall Ebonite using particles after the release of the XXXcel. The other thing I am sure of is the the Resurgense is a solid reactive.
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Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 196
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 180

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Lillen · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2007, 05:25:31 AM »

Only the Smashtime Solid was a particle...

NJStroker · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2007, 10:59:12 AM »

quote:
Only the Smashtime Solid was a particle...

Yeah and they discontinued that in a heartbeat.

WSUstroker · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2007, 11:21:38 AM »

Most of the Time series were particle.

Big Time/Pearl
Primetime Sanded
Gametime
Smashtime Solid
--------------------
Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com
"15 may be an age, but not how much I've experienced in life" - The wisest, allknowingest member of this forum, KennySkidmark.

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2007, 11:40:56 AM »

Yes the time peoduct line was particle, but thet also were released around the same time as the XXXCEL and after they were released there were no added to the line. As I sit here at a trade show and wasjust told by Ebonite that they don't deal with particles anymore. Thus the reason for removing the Particle Polish from the Power House line.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 196
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 180

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

shelley · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2007, 12:01:50 PM »

quote:
As I sit here at a trade show and wasjust told by Ebonite that they don't deal with particles anymore.

Give them time. Particles seem to be somewhat out of favor right now with the new super-strong resins that are available. Octane, Reactor, R2S, GB, Traxion,... don't need a lot of particles to generate traction even in significant amounts of oil. Track and Lanemasters seem to be a little particle-heavy, most other manufacturers seem to be reducing the number of particle balls they release.

Oils will catch up and particles will come back.

SH

Djarum · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2007, 04:18:54 PM »

quote:
quote:
As I sit here at a trade show and wasjust told by Ebonite that they don't deal with particles anymore.

Give them time. Particles seem to be somewhat out of favor right now with the new super-strong resins that are available. Octane, Reactor, R2S, GB, Traxion,... don't need a lot of particles to generate traction even in significant amounts of oil. Track and Lanemasters seem to be a little particle-heavy, most other manufacturers seem to be reducing the number of particle balls they release.

Oils will catch up and particles will come back.

SH

About the only thing I could find to move on shark was my Track Freak or my Razor Blade, both particles.

Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2007, 11:46:39 AM »

Ebonite doesnt feel they need to use particle because they can make a reactive so aggressive and read fast like a particle, yet still have movement on the back. You probly wont see particle from ebonite. At least not in the form of a solid.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 196
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 180

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2007, 04:42:49 PM »

quote:
Ebonite doesnt feel they need to use particle because they can make a reactive so aggressive and read fast like a particle, yet still have movement on the back. You probly wont see particle from ebonite. At least not in the form of a solid.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio.

But Mark, a major problem with the newer, very grabby Ebonite covers is just the same problem many people complained about with the particle coverstocks: they absorb oil too quickly and they lose a large degree of their performance because of that factor PLUS the avergae bowler's lack of knowledge AND desire about cleaning their balls regularly.

So, from where I sit, they may no longer have the problem of particles, but they have the same type of problem in any case. To call these balls oil sponges is not an exaggeration or a metaphor; it is a fact. While they work, it is an advantage. When they stop, it is a disadvantage.

(Aside: I wish others who read what I wrote will not chime in that their Ebonite Or Columbia or whatever ball has never lost performance. If you're the exception to the rule, fine. EVERY single manufacturer, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, has stated that balls lose performance over time from use, whether it's through oil absorption or from plasticizers rising to the surface of the track - it makes no difference. They all need regular care to delay that loss and once that loss is significant, that ball must undergo some process to restore that lost performance. That is a FACT, not an opinion.)
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 7/21/2007 7:03 PM

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2007, 04:50:40 PM »

Regarding the statement read "Fast" like a particle.

Did you mean read "Early".

Because I find all my particles to be fairly slow reacting off the dry.

But "early" in the pattern(read and move a little in the oily part)

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2007, 08:51:36 PM »

That would be a yes and a no because both words kinda mean the same thing. The particles make the ball read early or "fast" in the oil. A particle ball also reads so fast in dry, almost to the point where it can cause a ball with enough hand on it to roll out. I have that happen alot to me when I use particle, this is why my robo rule is kept at 1500 so I will still see the backend reaction.

Yet yes you are right, only that early and fast can mean the same thing.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

shelley · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2007, 10:17:06 PM »

quote:
But Mark, a major problem with the newer, very grabby Ebonite covers is just the same problem many people complained about with the particle coverstocks: they absorb oil too quickly and they lose a large degree of their performance because of that factor PLUS the avergae bowler's lack of knowledge AND desire about cleaning their balls regularly.

Actually, they've done their job perfectly. They avoid the stigma that many bowlers have of "particles are only for oil, they die in 50 games, and you can't take care of them", but still have balls that require a significant amount of maintenance due to the oil absorbtion and for those that don't maintain them, they die. But they're so frickin' hot and popular, people just buy the next one in the line and happily pay $200+ for it.

SH

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2007, 12:22:00 AM »

The other thing is that yes particles died but that also happen because of the way you clean them. Most particle balls by most companys are still just glass, or mica or some particle that when it gets hit with a scotch brite or abralon pad they get reshaped or smoothen out to where you lost the traction they give. This is mostly why you see particles lose traction and reaction after cleaning. This is also why Ebonite has thought to do away with them. If they can get a solid reactive to be just as strong, and not have to add particles that after you removed them could get stuck in say a pore and keep oil in it then why do that. Why not just use the strong reactive that will be easier to keep clean and easier to get the oil out of the pores.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2007, 01:48:50 AM »

quote:
I think something could be said about the kinds of particles used. It seems to me that the particles in Legends/Lanemasters and Track are top notch particles.

Are they really the same particles used across the bowling industry or different particles? I believe the latter, just because I have several particle pieces that have well over 1000 games (Arsenal Angular and Aggressive) that still react like they did back then....and they have gone through differing surface changes with abralon and scotchbrite pads used. So I can't entirely buy into the idea that abralon and scotchbrite break off particles and the particles lose their efficacy.

I have used the World Class Particle at 1000 and all the way up to 4000 abralon. It is back to OOB and in my opinion, the particles are still effective and show the true and desired result.

With the PBA possibly changing their patterns in the coming years (if they haven't already, I believe they will due to the players becoming used to the patterns and playing the current patterns with less trouble than when they came out), that particles will be back in favor again and will trickle down to the consumer end.
--------------------
Marlene Sixkiller
May this Angelic Bowler
rest in peace.....1/5/39-10/29/04

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Fighting terrorism since 1492

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Edited on 7/22/2007 0:46 AM

Six buddy, in no way am I saying it is all particles that are affected. There are some companys who use a harder particle type. The most known company is Lane Masters. They use diamond and carbon particles. These are so hard that carl has even told me that rick ripped up one of his drill bits while drilling a diamond particle ball. So if they casued a bit to get ripped up then that means they are alot less affected to the smoothening from the abralong and scotch brites. I only brought this up because I spent alot of time at the trade show over talking to Fred. He told me this is why he thinks most companys are going away from particles because they have cornered the market on the best kind that seem to last way longer then any other kind. So there is some truth to what I said. I am not sure what companys particles smoothen out and basicly break down. I am just saying that it is also a cause as to why particle lose reaction.

I know you know me and my faviort ball of all time was the track animal. I put well over 2000 games on it, maybe even more. The only reason I stoped using it is because I dont use 16lbs and the fact that I resurfaced it so much my SN is no longer on the ball. Yet you are right some companys like Lane Masters particles are not affect as much or as soon to the smoothed affect done by abralon and scotch brites.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Author Topic: Covers (Read 4224 times)

icefiction

Covers

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: Covers

Lillen

Re: Covers

NJStroker

Re: Covers

WSUstroker

Re: Covers

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: Covers

shelley

Re: Covers

Djarum

Re: Covers

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: Covers

charlest

Re: Covers

LuckyLefty

Re: Covers

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: Covers

shelley

Re: Covers

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: Covers

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: Covers