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Author Topic: did i see somebody using this ball>>>  (Read 5292 times)

xratedbowler

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did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« on: November 21, 2005, 02:56:01 AM »
epx on tv he looked like a low rev guy but still shot ok with it correct me if im wrong
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scotts33

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2005, 10:58:53 AM »
Yep Kenny Muscato used it.  

Now, I want to know from Jeff Mop or someone that knows Columbia stuff.  What was the big ring around the pin?  Do they all come like that?  Almost looks like a porosity blem????

Wondering.
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Scott



Edited on 11/21/2005 11:49 AM
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Scott

DP3

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2005, 12:14:00 PM »
He sanded the area around the pin.  I know a few guys that do that, it's easier to see the ball roll/core orientation as the ball goes down the lane.  Similar to how Morich uses bigger pins.
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scotts33

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2005, 12:26:23 PM »
Thanks DP3 but it looked liked he only sanded that area....didn't it?  That would be OK for PBA use but NOT OK for USBC.  

The whole ball did look dull but that area around pin looked more discolored...yes?  


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Scott

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Scott

scotts33

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2005, 12:29:39 PM »
quote:
must be ok for usbc since the masters is a usbc event and not a PBA event


They/USBC would be looking for it but I just wondered.  To me and anybody who has this on tape which I do not........the area around the pin looked a much different color than the rest of the ball.  Anybody else see this?
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Scott

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Scott

DP3

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2005, 12:48:34 PM »
If you use a 220-320 grit sandpaper, it will be noticably lighter.  That's what he did.  You may do that with a ball as long as it isn't rolling over that part of the surface.
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scotts33

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2005, 12:52:43 PM »
quote:
If you use a 220-320 grit sandpaper, it will be noticably lighter. That's what he did. You may do that with a ball as long as it isn't rolling over that part of the surface.
 


"Surface:

The surface of the ball shall be free of all depressions or grooves of specific pattern, except for holes or indentations used for gripping the ball, identification lettering and numbers, and incidental chipping or marking caused by wear.

 

Engraved pictures are not considered grooves of specific pattern.  

 

No foreign material may be placed on the outer surface of the ball.  

 

If the surface friction of the ball is altered by sanding or polishing, the entire surface of the ball must be sanded or polished.

 

Plugs and grips may not extend beyond the surface of the ball."

 

Equipment Spec Manual-Page 13 (Jan 05 Revision)
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That's the way I understand it.  It just looked to me that the ball Ken was using was definitely different looking than the rest of the ball....around the pin.



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Scott

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Scott

DP3

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2005, 05:27:25 PM »
Well dispite the rule that's straight from the book, that is what Ken Muscato did.  That was the original question, not if it was legal or not.
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Bar5003

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2005, 06:15:16 PM »
actually what i think happened is what usually happens with this ball...it appeared different due to the amount of oil soaked into the cover and where it soaks in...its amazing the color changes this ball can go through between hot and cold and when exposed to oil its actually pretty neat...when it gets warm or "oil soaked" it turns that dark purple (im sure the TV lights didnt help) and when it cools and is allowed to sit it turns back to that grey/purple color

ive seen the same thing (as seen on tv) with the balls that come through my shop...the area around the pin appears lighter than the rest of the ball...if i am correct i hope this helps shed some light on the subject
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Strider

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2005, 08:38:05 PM »
I thought the ball's reaction looked horrible.  I know it's supposed to arc, not snap, but that thing looked dead at 35'.  Not much drive through the deck either.  Maybe the strong cover, especially as dull as it looked, just puked waaaaaaaay too early?
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Bar5003

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2005, 08:45:06 PM »
as far as the cores go if that is true...the only difference between the epx core and the super trooper core is the flip block on top of the epx's they both use the rock on core's shape so the reactions would be SOMEWHAT close

now if it had the original trooper's core thats a different story thats just the offset puck

i agree with you strider this wasnt a very good showing of the epx

ive seen what this ball can really do...when thrown on the right shot its amazing

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scotts33

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2005, 06:09:10 AM »
Thanks all for clarifying discoloration.  I have not seen one used nor up close just wondered.

Btw--I think Kenny's reaction was good during practice and all week.  The lanes just broke down inside for that type of ball.  I also believe with less rotation Ken feels he might need to use this type of equipment to give him more.  Could be wrong but that's the way I look at it....also looking at what Mike Scroggins changed to for better line and carry.

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Scott

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Scott

LuckyLefty

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2005, 07:57:18 AM »
I believe the main problem with the ball on TV was he was sticking at teh foul line...sometimes and then not!

I'm sure he's much better than that...when not sticking!

REgards,

Luckylefty


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shelley

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2005, 08:08:31 AM »
quote:
This type of thing happens more often than not in the PBA....the ball companies try to get their premier product out in the spotlight. All you see is the label. Do we really know that is the exact same core in the ball? After all, there are tour label editions, that unless a pro bowler gives away or sells them on Ebay, the average league bowler will never see the light of day.


The way I see it, putting a different core in it makes it a different ball.  Are there two EPX-T1's in the approved ball list, one with the Super Trooper core, one with the original core?

Are the Bruiser and Nemesis the same ball?  They have the same cover but different cores.  What about the Time Zone?  And the BCB?  And the Blueberry?  And the Ravage?  What could possibly let you think that changing the core makes it the same ball?  It would have to be resubmitted for approval before it could be used in sanctioned competition.

Heck, the USBC got all pissy about the SCB having a different finish.  They're not going to ignore the fact that there's a different core in the ball.  What you are suggesting is cheating.  Yes, there have been "Tour Edition" balls in the past, but they're separately approved and have different labels on them.

If what you say is the case, why not submit one ball for testing and another for manufacturing?  That would certainly let balls like the SCB, BCB, SD-73, and other high-diff balls back into production.

SH

Edited on 11/22/2005 8:59 AM
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shelley

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Re: did i see somebody using this ball>>>
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2005, 10:13:08 AM »
quote:
Shelley,

You bring up a very interesting point and one that is very solid with facts. As far as being sanctioned, it would be in the PBA, not in the USBC as you have mentioned. In the PBA approved list, there is only one EPX T1 listed, so I can't really explain that.


It would have to be in the USBS ball list as well, since the Masters is a USBS tournament.  Further, I think the PBA approved ball list has a lot more to do with who's paid their money than specifications.  I wouldn't be surprised if they looked to the USBS for equipment spec certification.

quote:
All I am saying is what I have heard and my source is very reputable. Who can really explain what is going on behind the scenes? I am not trying to drum up trouble or conspiracy about the ball companies or the PBA, but I am rather intrigued by it all. I have heard about this before, but never from a source that was trusted. This time I do believe in the validity of it, coming from someone who is close to C300.


Could be a conspiracy.  But I'd be loathe to tell a pro that his win and his paycheck are for naught because he used a ball that was supposed to be approved but his company subbed for a different "showcase" piece.  Sure, lots of those guys throw something because of incentives (recall the WRW debaucle at the US Open last year over the GP2/WMB stuff), but if the PBA came to me and said I have to give the money back because my ball company furnished me with an illegal ball just so they could sell more, I'd be really pissed off.  I probably wouldn't throw their stuff again, and I'd make sure other people, other pros knew what they were pulling.

Now, if they knew the ball was different than normal, that'd be even worse.  Talk about lack of integrity.  I'd hope they'd be drummed out of the PBA for that kind of cheating.

SH
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